51||0|1982|0|yes 0|0|0|||||ranting about Star Trek VII|Blob||13:46:52|11/28/2001|I%27ve just re-watched %5Bi%5DStar Trek%3A Generations%5B%2Fi%5D out of boredom and had serious WTF-moment when the Enterprise got shot down by that Bird of Prey. %0D%0AI mean what was Riker thinking%21 Even though the Klingons had the shield frequency the Enterprise should have been abel to trash that little sucker of a %5Bb%5D20 YEARS OLD%5B%2Fb%5D Bird of Prey%21 In fact Riker should have been able to destroy the Klingons in one pass. In one properly executed overhead pass the Enterprise would have been able to clobber the Bird of Prey with %5Bb%5Dsix%5B%2Fb%5D phaser emitters%2C saucer-section ventral%28ventral was down%2C right%3F%29 emitter%2C engineering-section frontal-ventral emitter%2C the two Warpnacelle pylon emitters and the two aft-ventral emitters%2C and could have hosed it with torpedoes at the beginning and at the end of the passing. %0D%0A%0D%0AFunny I%27ve never thought of that before...%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A----------------%0D%0A%22And what _are_ we dealing with%3F Little green men%21%3F%22%0D%0A%22No. Little green blobs in bonded polycarbite-armor%21%22 1|1|0|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Polychrome||15:11:48|11/28/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-01 AT 03:12 PM (EST)[/font][p]%3Eshould have been able to destroy the Klingons in one pass. In one%0D%0A%3Eproperly executed overhead pass the Enterprise would have been able to%0D%0A%3Eclobber the Bird of Prey with %5Bb%5Dsix%5B%2Fb%5D phaser emitters%2C%0D%0A%3Esaucer-section ventral%28ventral was down%2C right%3F%29 emitter%2C%0D%0A%3Eengineering-section frontal-ventral emitter%2C the two Warpnacelle pylon%0D%0A%3Eemitters and the two aft-ventral emitters%2C and could have hosed it%0D%0A%3Ewith torpedoes at the beginning and at the end of the passing.%0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C there is the fact that they stuffed a photorp into main engineering.%0D%0AThat%27ll put a crimp in anybody%27s style.%0D%0AOn a less facetious vein%2C that torp probably took out the fore-vent array and the fore torpedo tubes.%0D%0A%0D%0APolychrome%0D%0A 2|2|1|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Blob||15:24:42|11/28/2001|%3E%5Bfont size%3D%221%22 color%3D%22%23FF0000%22%5DLAST EDITED ON Nov-28-01 AT %0D%0A%3E03%3A12%A0PM %28EST%29%5B%2Ffont%5D %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%3Eshould have been able to destroy the Klingons in one pass. In one%0D%0A%3E%3Eproperly executed overhead pass the Enterprise would have been able to%0D%0A%3E%3Eclobber the Bird of Prey with %5Bb%5Dsix%5B%2Fb%5D phaser emitters%2C%0D%0A%3E%3Esaucer-section ventral%28ventral was down%2C right%3F%29 emitter%2C%0D%0A%3E%3Eengineering-section frontal-ventral emitter%2C the two Warpnacelle pylon%0D%0A%3E%3Eemitters and the two aft-ventral emitters%2C and could have hosed it%0D%0A%3E%3Ewith torpedoes at the beginning and at the end of the passing.%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EWell%2C there is the fact that they stuffed a photorp into main %0D%0A%3Eengineering. %0D%0A%3EThat%27ll put a crimp in anybody%27s style. %0D%0A%3EOn a less facetious vein%2C that torp probably took out the fore-vent %0D%0A%3Earray and the fore torpedo tubes. %0D%0A%0D%0AOkay%2C those wapons may have been disabled or destroyed but there should still be enogh firepower left kick some klingon ass.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd in the movie the Enterprise just %5Bb%5Dturned it%27s back%5B%2Fb%5D to the klingons%21 Even with that hole in the engineering-section%27s hull that%27s a pretty dumb move%2C because this way Riker practically _INVITES_ the klingons to shoot up the Enterprise%27s engines%21%0D%0A%0D%0AI just saw a ST%3ATNG episode where the Enterprise hosed a Borg ship with everything it%27s got nad I just can%27t believe that that very same Enterprise is perfoming so poorly against an out-of-date Bird of Prey.%0D%0A%0D%0AAt least this gave them an excuse to build a new Enterprise.%0D%0A%0D%0A----------------%0D%0A%22And what _are_ we dealing with%3F Little green men%21%3F%22%0D%0A%22No. Little green blobs in bonded polycarbite-armor%21%22 3|3|2|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Gryphon||15:37:12|11/28/2001|%3EAt least this gave them an excuse to build a new Enterprise. %0D%0A%0D%0AAnd for that%2C I will forgive them any plot%2C however contrived%2C that allowed them to get there.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 4|4|3|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Ebony||16:48:04|11/28/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-01 AT 04:48 PM (EST)[/font][p]%3E%3EAt least this gave them an excuse to build a new Enterprise. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAnd for that%2C I will forgive them any plot%2C however contrived%2C that %0D%0A%3Eallowed them to get there. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AI would%2C except that a%29 Generations sucked basically from the get-go and b%29 they %28that is%2C to say%2C the ST writers%29 are incapable of keeping their ship performance%2Fcrew competency%2Fetc. straight when they write their stories. I hate %22Plot-Convenient Playhouse%22 writing. It shows either a lack of communication or a lack of ability in the writers.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut I will admit that the Enterprise-D is an damned ugly ship.%0D%0A%0D%0AEbony the Black Dragon%0D%0Aaka Draco Draconis Ebenium%0D%0Aknown to Paramount as Aaron F. Johnson%2C%0D%0ASenior Editor%2C Living Room Games%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lrgames.com 6|5|4|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Polychrome||01:00:33|11/29/2001|%3EI would%2C except that a%29 Generations sucked basically from the get-go%0D%0A%0D%0AOf course. It was odd numbered.%0D%0A%0D%0APolychrome 11|6|6|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Chris Redfield||20:10:19|11/29/2001|%3E%3EI would%2C except that a%29 Generations sucked basically from the get-go%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EOf course. It was odd numbered. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe problem with that scheme %28odd bad%2C even good%29 is that Star Trek IV is a %5Bb%5DREALLY%5B%2Fb%5D bad movie. It is marginally better than III%2C and V makes everything look like a masterpiece%2C but IV is still a bad bad movie.%0D%0A%0D%0A-----------------------------------%0D%0AChris can%27t handle whales 12|7|11|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Gryphon||21:07:27|11/29/2001|%3EThe problem with that scheme %28odd bad%2C even good%29 is that Star Trek IV %0D%0A%3Eis a %5Bb%5DREALLY%5B%2Fb%5D bad movie.%0D%0A%0D%0AUh...... OK.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 13|7|11|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Polychrome||21:07:53|11/29/2001|%3E%3E%3EI would%2C except that a%29 Generations sucked basically from the get-go%0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EOf course. It was odd numbered.%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThe problem with that scheme %28odd bad%2C even good%29 is that Star Trek IV%0D%0A%3Eis a %5Bb%5DREALLY%5B%2Fb%5D bad movie. It is marginally better than III%2C and V%0D%0A%3Emakes everything look like a masterpiece%2C but IV is still a bad bad%0D%0A%3Emovie.%0D%0A%0D%0AI happen to agree with you%2C but for some reason that is beyond me%2C alot of people seemed to like it.%0D%0AWhatever.%0D%0A%0D%0APolychrome%0D%0A 14|8|13|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Nathan||22:01:57|11/29/2001|%3E%3E%3E%3EI would%2C except that a%29 Generations sucked basically from the get-go%0D%0A%3E%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3E%3EOf course. It was odd numbered.%0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EThe problem with that scheme %28odd bad%2C even good%29 is that Star Trek IV%0D%0A%3E%3Eis a %5Bb%5DREALLY%5B%2Fb%5D bad movie. It is marginally better than III%2C and V%0D%0A%3E%3Emakes everything look like a masterpiece%2C but IV is still a bad bad%0D%0A%3E%3Emovie.%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI happen to agree with you%2C but for some reason that is beyond me%2C %0D%0A%3Ealot of people seemed to like it. %0D%0A%3EWhatever. %0D%0A%0D%0AIt %5Bi%5Dis%5B%2Fi%5D a bad movie. But it%27s watchably bad. Bad in a way that is%2C in spite of itself%2C fun. Like Super Atragon.%0D%0A%0D%0ABlessed be.%0D%0ANathan Baxter 15|7|11|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Laudre||23:06:26|11/29/2001|%3E%3E%3EI would%2C except that a%29 Generations sucked basically from the get-go%0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EOf course. It was odd numbered. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThe problem with that scheme %28odd bad%2C even good%29 is that Star Trek IV %0D%0A%3Eis a %5Bb%5DREALLY%5B%2Fb%5D bad movie. %0D%0A%0D%0ASure%2C if by %22%5Bb%5DREALLY%5B%2Fb%5D bad movie%22 you mean %22actually quite a good movie.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5DThe Voyage Home%5B%2Fi%5D remains the single most successful effort at %5Bi%5DTrek%5B%2Fi%5D comedy%2C and is therefore quite entertaining%2C and has real tension%2C solid characterizations %28and even some development%2C on Spock%27s part%29%2C and performances that I quite enjoy. It%27s not a bad movie because it lacks explosions or other vastly overdone idiocy.%0D%0A%0D%0ALet%27s review%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5DStar Trek%3A The Motion Picture%5B%2Fi%5D%3A Yawn.%0D%0A%5Bi%5DStar Trek%3A The Motion Picture%3A The Director%27s Edition%5B%2Fi%5D%3A Good%2C and not just in an %22oh my God%2C it no longer sucks%22 way. It%27s real%2C intelligent%2C honest science fiction%2C moreso than %5Bi%5DTrek%5B%2Fi%5D ever has been before or since.%0D%0A%5Bi%5DStar Trek II%3A The Wrath of Khan%5B%2Fi%5D%3A A film that can be described as truly poetic%2C in every way%2C and it has the greatest Trek villain of all time.%0D%0A%5Bi%5DStar Trek III%3A The Search for Spock%5B%2Fi%5D%3A ...What%3F Okay%2C let%27s accept its existence as a necessary bridge between the ending of %5Bi%5DThe Wrath of Khan%5B%2Fi%5D and %5Bi%5DThe Voyage Home%5B%2Fi%5D.%0D%0A%5Bi%5DStar Trek IV%3A The Voyage Home%5B%2Fi%5D%3A It%27s funny%2C intelligent %28though I still have to wonder how long humpbacks are going to stay %22regenerated%22 without more than one mated pair%29%2C and is a great Spock movie on top of that.%0D%0A%5Bi%5DStar Trek V%3A The Final Frontier%5B%2Fi%5D%3A Utterly forgettable%2C and verging on character assassination in places. %5Bi%5DTrek%5B%2Fi%5D and this kind of %22theology%22 don%27t mix. %28Nor most kinds%2C for that matter.%29%0D%0A%5Bi%5DStar Trek VI%3A The Undiscovered Country%5B%2Fi%5D%3A Ahh%2C yes. A mystery movie%2C an adventure film%2C and one of the best handlings of Klingon culture in Trek canon. And a great deal of continuity%2C too.%0D%0A%5Bi%5DStar Trek%3A Generations%5B%2Fi%5D%3A Well%2C watching Brent Spiner play an emotional Data was quite entertaining %28%22This is revolting%21%22 %22More%3F%22 %22Please%21%22%29%2C but%2C other than that%2C this movie was only useful for getting the %5Bi%5DEnterprise%5B%2Fi%5D D out of the way to make way for the much better-looking %28especially on the big screen%29 %5Bi%5DSovereign%5B%2Fi%5D-class %5Bi%5DEnterprise%5B%2Fi%5D E.%0D%0A%5Bi%5DStar Trek%3A First Contact%5B%2Fi%5D%3A Just plain kicked ass. It had much of the humor of %5Bi%5DThe Voyage Home%5B%2Fi%5D%2C and featured a riveting space combat and a downright creepy portrayal of the Borg%2C their best portrayal since %22The Best of Both Worlds.%22 %28Let%27s just forget their emasculation on %5Bi%5DVoyager%5B%2Fi%5D... well%2C let%27s just forget %5Bi%5Dall%5B%2Fi%5D of %5Bi%5DVoyager%5B%2Fi%5D%2C while we%27re at it.%29%0D%0A%5Bi%5DStar Trek%3A Insurrection%5B%2Fi%5D%3A It tried. It really did. And it had its moments%2C and excepting Robert Wise%27s recut of %5Bi%5DThe Motion Picture%5B%2Fi%5D%2C it%27s the best of the odd-numbered films%3B that is to say%2C the characterizations are on-target%2C and it even had a sense of humor%2C just that the plot wasn%27t there.%0D%0A%5Bi%5DStar Trek%3A Nemesis%5B%2Fi%5D%3A Oh%2C wait%2C that one%27s not out until %5Bi%5Dnext%5B%2Fi%5D year. Still%2C it sounds better than %5Bi%5DInsurrection%5B%2Fi%5D.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22 -- Terry Pratchett%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Flaudre%2F%7CFollow my random thoughts%5D%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Feva_densetsu%2F%7CFollow my creative process%5D 16|8|15|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Gryphon||23:20:15|11/29/2001|%3E%5Bi%5DStar Trek%3A Insurrection%5B%2Fi%5D%3A It tried. It really did. And it had %0D%0A%3Eits moments%2C and excepting Robert Wise%27s recut of %5Bi%5DThe Motion %0D%0A%3EPicture%5B%2Fi%5D%2C it%27s the best of the odd-numbered films%3B that is to say%2C %0D%0A%3Ethe characterizations are on-target%2C and it even had a sense of humor%2C %0D%0A%3Ejust that the plot wasn%27t there. %0D%0A%0D%0AI like the %5Bi%5DDirector%27s Edition%5B%2Fi%5D of %5Bi%5DTMP%5B%2Fi%5D too%2C but the new sound mix always throws me off - I%27ve seen the VHS version so many times that its sound mix is pretty much ingrained in my neural pathways. I%27m not used to there being background SFX in the Klingon scenes%2C and I keep expecting to hear the old %22BORTBORTBORTBORT%22 alert siren and the computer voice %28%22Incoming fire. Ahead. Zero. Mark. Zero.%22%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs for %5Bi%5DInsurrection%5B%2Fi%5D%2C it paid for itself in my video collection with just the line%2C %22I have an odd craving for the blood of a live kolaar beast.%22 %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 18|9|16|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Laudre||00:11:10|11/30/2001|%3E%3E%5Bi%5DStar Trek%3A Insurrection%5B%2Fi%5D%3A It tried. It really did. And it had %0D%0A%3E%3Eits moments%2C and excepting Robert Wise%27s recut of %5Bi%5DThe Motion %0D%0A%3E%3EPicture%5B%2Fi%5D%2C it%27s the best of the odd-numbered films%3B that is to say%2C %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe characterizations are on-target%2C and it even had a sense of humor%2C %0D%0A%3E%3Ejust that the plot wasn%27t there. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI like the %5Bi%5DDirector%27s Edition%5B%2Fi%5D of %5Bi%5DTMP%5B%2Fi%5D too%2C but the new %0D%0A%3Esound mix always throws me off - I%27ve seen the VHS version so many %0D%0A%3Etimes that its sound mix is pretty much ingrained in my neural %0D%0A%3Epathways. %0D%0A%0D%0AI suppose that%27s an advantage I had%3B I never enjoyed the original cut of %5Bi%5DTMP%5B%2Fi%5D%2C so the only times I watched it %28after my first cognizant viewing of the film in my early teens%29 were as background on cable. I know enough of the film to know why I don%27t like it %28and to go on about the pacing problems and things of that nature%29%2C but I%27m not so familiar with it that I experienced any kind of dissonance on watching the %5Bi%5DDirector%27s Edition%5B%2Fi%5D%3B I was able to walk into it %28so to speak%29 fairly close to %5Bi%5Dtabula rasa%5B%2Fi%5D.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAs for %5Bi%5DInsurrection%5B%2Fi%5D%2C it paid for itself in my video collection %0D%0A%3Ewith just the line%2C %22I have an odd craving for the blood of a live %0D%0A%3Ekolaar beast.%22 %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AAs I%27ve said%2C %5Bi%5DInsurrection%5B%2Fi%5D has its moments%2C mostly by way of clever dialogue and character bits%2C but as a story it doesn%27t fulfill its promise. A shame%2C really%3B with those kinds of themes%2C it promised to be a much more fascinating film than it ended up as. %28%5Bi%5DThe Final Frontier%5B%2Fi%5D also had a tremendous amount of promise%2C and failed even more spectacularly%3B at least %5Bi%5DInsurrection%5B%2Fi%5D was still entertaining.%29%0D%0A%0D%0AAnother tidbit%3A there%27s rumors running around of Paramount doing special editions of the other %5Bi%5DTrek%5B%2Fi%5D films%2C and while I see them doing new sound mixes and maybe cleaning the film up%2C I don%27t see them recutting the other films. Shame%2C really%3B some of them could probably be made significantly better with some tweaking. Ah%2C well%3B one can hope.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22 -- Terry Pratchett%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Flaudre%2F%7CFollow my random thoughts%5D%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Feva_densetsu%2F%7CFollow my creative process%5D 20|10|18|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Gryphon||00:30:59|11/30/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-01 AT 00:31 AM (EST)[/font][p]%3EAnother tidbit%3A there%27s rumors running around of Paramount doing %0D%0A%3Especial editions of the other %5Bi%5DTrek%5B%2Fi%5D films%2C and while I see them %0D%0A%3Edoing new sound mixes and maybe cleaning the film up%2C I don%27t see them %0D%0A%3Erecutting the other films. Shame%2C really%3B some of them could probably %0D%0A%3Ebe made significantly better with some tweaking.%0D%0A%0D%0AHeh. From an online chat with Bill Shatner hosted at startrek.com earlier this month%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btt%5D%0D%0AQ%3A Will there be a director%27s cut for Star Trek V%2C like what%27s happening with the first film%3F%0D%0AMothman%0D%0A%0D%0AWS%3A No%2C I don%27t think any of the other movies will be touched. But I%27m going from house to house trying to get people to buy the DVD of Star Trek V and giving out individual explanations so please call.%0D%0A%5B%2Ftt%5D%0D%0A%0D%0AI like Shatner a lot since he rediscovered his sense of humor. He has quite a few funny%2C sardonic moments in that chat. %28Transcript%2C if you care%2C at http%3A%2F%2Fwww.startrek.com%2Fnews%2Ftranscripts%2Fshatner_110801.html - I%27m especially amused by his comments about %5Bi%5DGalaxy Quest%5B%2Fi%5D. Very tongue-in-cheek. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 23|11|20|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Laudre||01:11:04|11/30/2001|%3EI like Shatner a lot since he rediscovered his sense of humor.%0D%0A%0D%0AHave you seen the film %5Bi%5DFree Enterprise%5B%2Fi%5D%3F It%27s one of my favorite non-mainstream films of recent years%2C mostly because it%27s a movie about scifi fanboys that doesn%27t portray us as dysfunctional losers living in our parents%27 basements%2C and it includes William Shatner playing himself %28and making fun of himself.%29 I recommend it strongly to all my geekish friends %5E_%5E.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22 -- Terry Pratchett%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Flaudre%2F%7CFollow my random thoughts%5D%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Feva_densetsu%2F%7CFollow my creative process%5D 17|8|15|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Wedge||23:28:02|11/29/2001|%3E%5Bi%5DStar Trek%3A Nemesis%5B%2Fi%5D%3A Oh%2C wait%2C that one%27s not out until %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5Dnext%5B%2Fi%5D year. Still%2C it sounds better than %5Bi%5DInsurrection%5B%2Fi%5D. %0D%0A%0D%0AIMHO%2C if they stick to the script I read a few months ago%2C it%27ll stand to be the best %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D movie%2C and rank up pretty high with the others.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe effects will be much better this go-round too%2C but then%2C I%27m biased. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22Mike Wazowski%21%22%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0AChad Collier%0D%0ADigital Bitch%0D%0AJ. Random VFX Company 19|9|17|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Laudre||00:14:52|11/30/2001|%3EIMHO%2C if they stick to the script I read a few months ago%2C it%27ll stand %0D%0A%3Eto be the best %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D movie%2C and rank up pretty high with the %0D%0A%3Eothers. %0D%0A%0D%0ASee%2C I%27ve only read synopses and reviews%2C so I have a hard time evaluating it. It sounds like a solid premise%2C though%2C and I%27d love to see the script myself so that I could get a better grip on the characterization and plot.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThe effects will be much better this go-round too%2C but then%2C I%27m %0D%0A%3Ebiased. %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AYes%2C I%27m sure you are %3A%29.%0D%0A%0D%0ASay%2C did you have to sign one of those pesky non-disclosure agreements%3F I%27m sure you%27ll answer in the affirmative%2C but no harm in asking.%0D%0A%0D%0AOh%2C and while I%27m thinking of it%2C did your company have anything to do with %5Bi%5DThe Fellowship of the Ring%5B%2Fi%5D%3F From what I%27ve heard%2C the SFX in the film make ILM look like college boys making fan films.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22 -- Terry Pratchett%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Flaudre%2F%7CFollow my random thoughts%5D%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Feva_densetsu%2F%7CFollow my creative process%5D 21|10|19|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Wedge||00:57:08|11/30/2001|%3E%3EIMHO%2C if they stick to the script I read a few months ago%2C it%27ll stand %0D%0A%3E%3Eto be the best %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D movie%2C and rank up pretty high with the %0D%0A%3E%3Eothers. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ESee%2C I%27ve only read synopses and reviews%2C so I have a hard time %0D%0A%3Eevaluating it. It sounds like a solid premise%2C though%2C and I%27d love %0D%0A%3Eto see the script myself so that I could get a better grip on the %0D%0A%3Echaracterization and plot. %0D%0A%0D%0AFrom what I know%2C much of the script was done outside of the group that have done past movies%2C and the writer is personally a fan of %5Bi%5DWoK%5B%2Fi%5D%2C and it %5Bi%5Dreads%5B%2Fi%5D about as good as II was. The translation to film can twist that though%2C just in the nature of the process%2C so I%27m holding off on saying %27It will kick almighty ass%21%27 until I see the final product. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0AThere are some aspects of it that I might even call Eyrie-esque%2C but again%2C the eventual translation to film is the key.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ESay%2C did you have to sign one of those pesky non-disclosure %0D%0A%3Eagreements%3F I%27m sure you%27ll answer in the affirmative%2C but no harm in %0D%0A%3Easking. %0D%0A%0D%0AOh yeah. Hollywood likes the NDA quite a bit. I try to just keep my mouth shut most of the time%2C but it%27s been a little tough reading some of the starship-design threads%2C seeing as I can walk to the next building and see pre-production sketches and the like. I%27ll be curious to read reaction here to some of the technical bits that will be in it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EOh%2C and while I%27m thinking of it%2C did your company have anything to do %0D%0A%3Ewith %5Bi%5DThe Fellowship of the Ring%5B%2Fi%5D%3F From what I%27ve heard%2C the SFX %0D%0A%3Ein the film make ILM look like college boys making fan films. %0D%0A%0D%0AYes%2C although it was a small part of it--think water horses if you%27ve read the books %28which I haven%27t yet%2C figured I%27d see it first before getting into them%29. WETA over in New Zealand did most of the heavy lifting. I think our stuff looks great and I have no real context yet%2C and friends who do are pretty much speechless. And everything else I%27ve seen in trailers is equally impressive%2C so we%27ll see how it comes together.%0D%0A%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22Mike Wazowski%21%22%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0AChad Collier--%5Bi%5D...and I don%27t know about college boys%2C but at least there%27s someone else on the block doing work of that kind of scope. Always a good thing.%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0ADigital Bitch%0D%0AJ. Random VFX Company 22|11|21|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Laudre||01:07:04|11/30/2001|%3EFrom what I know%2C much of the script was done outside of the group %0D%0A%3Ethat have done past movies%2C and the writer is personally a fan of %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5DWoK%5B%2Fi%5D%2C and it %5Bi%5Dreads%5B%2Fi%5D about as good as II was. The %0D%0A%3Etranslation to film can twist that though%2C just in the nature of the %0D%0A%3Eprocess%2C so I%27m holding off on saying %27It will kick almighty ass%21%27 %0D%0A%3Euntil I see the final product. %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AIndeed. John Logan is a vocal fan of %5Bi%5DTrek%5B%2Fi%5D%2C and Stuart Baird is certainly a capable director%2C but... one never knows.%0D%0A%0D%0AAt least Brannon Braga doesn%27t seem to be involved%2C thank the Goddess.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EOh yeah. Hollywood likes the NDA quite a bit. I try to just keep my %0D%0A%3Emouth shut most of the time%2C but it%27s been a little tough reading some %0D%0A%3Eof the starship-design threads%2C seeing as I can walk to the next %0D%0A%3Ebuilding and see pre-production sketches and the like. I%27ll be %0D%0A%3Ecurious to read reaction here to some of the technical bits that will %0D%0A%3Ebe in it. %0D%0A%0D%0AProbably no less curious than we will be to see these technical bits. Personally%2C I%27m waiting to see what Shinzon%27s Warbird looks like -- the synopses I%27ve read make it sound like something a whole lot more hardcore than the %5Bi%5DD%27Deridex%5B%2Fi%5D class%2C but we%27ll see.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EYes%2C although it was a small part of it--think water horses if you%27ve %0D%0A%3Eread the books %28which I haven%27t yet%2C figured I%27d see it first before %0D%0A%3Egetting into them%29. %0D%0A%0D%0AYes%2C I know the scene. And I%27m glad it sounds good%3B everything I%27ve heard about the film sounds breathtaking%2C though I%27m wondering how many people are going to see the film%2C then rush out to buy the books and discover that J.R.R. Tolkien didn%27t write much like%2C say%2C Stephen King or J.K. Rowling.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22 -- Terry Pratchett%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Flaudre%2F%7CFollow my random thoughts%5D%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Feva_densetsu%2F%7CFollow my creative process%5D 24|12|22|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Wedge||01:22:06|11/30/2001|%3EPersonally%2C I%27m waiting to see what Shinzon%27s Warbird looks like -- %0D%0A%3Ethe synopses I%27ve read make it sound like something a whole lot more %0D%0A%3Ehardcore than the %5Bi%5DD%27Deridex%5B%2Fi%5D class%0D%0A%0D%0AYes.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22Mike Wazowski%21%22%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0AChad Collier--%5Bi%5D%22Big man%2C Pig-Man%2C ha ha%2C charade you are...%22%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0ADigital Bitch%0D%0AJ. Random VFX Company 29|13|24|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|goldenfire||11:12:21|11/30/2001|%3E%3EPersonally%2C I%27m waiting to see what Shinzon%27s Warbird looks like -- %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe synopses I%27ve read make it sound like something a whole lot more %0D%0A%3E%3Ehardcore than the %5Bi%5DD%27Deridex%5B%2Fi%5D class%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYes. %0D%0A%0D%0Atease%21%0D%0A%0D%0Athat was evil...as if I%27m not having %5Bi%5Denough%5B%2Fi%5D trouble biding my time... 30|13|24|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Gryphon||15:30:32|11/30/2001|%3E%3EPersonally%2C I%27m waiting to see what Shinzon%27s Warbird looks like -- %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe synopses I%27ve read make it sound like something a whole lot more %0D%0A%3E%3Ehardcore than the %5Bi%5DD%27Deridex%5B%2Fi%5D class%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYes. %0D%0A%0D%0A... not%2C of course%2C that it could be much %5Bi%5Dless%5B%2Fi%5D... %0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0Augh%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 31|12|22|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Mephron||16:56:23|11/30/2001|%3EProbably no less curious than we will be to see these technical bits. %0D%0A%3EPersonally%2C I%27m waiting to see what Shinzon%27s Warbird looks like -- %0D%0A%3Ethe synopses I%27ve read make it sound like something a whole lot more %0D%0A%3Ehardcore than the %5Bi%5DD%27Deridex%5B%2Fi%5D class%2C but we%27ll see. %0D%0A%0D%0AImporant note to starship designers%2C even those designing ships for alien races whose culture appears to be Roman-inspired%3A%0D%0A%0D%0ASHIPS DO NOT HAVE ATRIUMS. Thank you.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28What the HELL were they thinking%3F %22Hey%2C let%27s have a distributed superstructure in the hopes that they%27ll shoot THROUGH THE MIDDLE%3F%22 I got four words for them in that one%3A %22Mr. Data%2C target engines.%22 Picard and%2For Riker used to say that in fights. and in a %5Bi%5DD%27Dereidex%5B%2Fi%5D%2C hell%2C they got twice as much possible room to smite. Besides%2C cloaking that thing must be a bitch and three-quarters%2C way more surface area to make nonvisible.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--%0D%0AGeoff Depew - Mephron%0D%0AHaberdasher to Androids%2C Malakite of Lightning and Angel of Tech Support Professionals %0D%0A%28They won%27t give me LARTs%2C they say that%27s restricted to Michael.%29 33|13|31|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|trigger||19:10:39|11/30/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-01 AT 07:11 PM (EST)[/font][p]%3ESHIPS DO NOT HAVE ATRIUMS. Thank you. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%28What the HELL were they thinking%3F %22Hey%2C let%27s have a distributed %0D%0A%3Esuperstructure in the hopes that they%27ll shoot THROUGH THE MIDDLE%3F%22 I %0D%0A%3Egot four words for them in that one%3A %22Mr. Data%2C target engines.%22 %0D%0A%3EPicard and%2For Riker used to say that in fights. and in a %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5DD%27Dereidex%5B%2Fi%5D%2C hell%2C they got twice as much possible room to %0D%0A%3Esmite. Besides%2C cloaking that thing must be a bitch and %0D%0A%3Ethree-quarters%2C way more surface area to make nonvisible.%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AThere you go being rational again%21 Of course all ships carry lots of non-essential space that is difficult to defend%21 What do you think future war is like%3F You don%27t think they%27ll be professional do you%3F Of course all the backup systems will be so strong%2C and so indestructible and easy to repair that you can add lots of stupid stuff %28say like a Holodec%29 and still be a mean-lean-fighting machine.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd targeting engines%3F Well%2C that%27s just not sporting%21%0D%0A%0D%0At.%0D%0A%5Bi%5DSherman%3A War is hell%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%5Bi%5DStarfleet%3A War is hell if you don%27t have a jacuzzi filled with Betazoids%21%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A 35|14|33|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Gryphon||19:54:34|11/30/2001|%3EThere you go being rational again%21 Of course all ships carry lots of %0D%0A%3Enon-essential space that is difficult to defend%21 What do you think %0D%0A%3Efuture war is like%3F You don%27t think they%27ll be professional do you%3F %0D%0A%3EOf course all the backup systems will be so strong%2C and so %0D%0A%3Eindestructible and easy to repair that you can add lots of stupid %0D%0A%3Estuff %28say like a Holodec%29 and still be a mean-lean-fighting machine. %0D%0A%0D%0AJust for the sake of fairness%2C Federation starships %28with the exception of the %5Bi%5DDefiant%5B%2Fi%5D class%29 are not%2C primarily%2C warships.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 37|15|35|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|trigger||15:38:57|12/01/2001|%0D%0A%3EJust for the sake of fairness%2C Federation starships %28with the %0D%0A%3Eexception of the %5Bi%5DDefiant%5B%2Fi%5D class%29 are not%2C primarily%2C warships. %0D%0A%0D%0AI recognize that Starfleet doesn%27t believe it%27s purpose is to fight wars. However%2C you build a craft that has shields%2C miliary grade weapons%2C teach all your captains how to fight%2C have a security staff%2C and in general treat your crews with military discipline%2C you have a military force. %0D%0A%0D%0AThat Starfleet delibritely handicaps itself in this regard is amazingly frustrating to me. As if you can%27t have warships that do both science%2C exploraration and conquest. Please. %0D%0A%0D%0ANow if you were to say that warships aren%27t the best tool for such ventures%2C I couldn%27t agree more. We see that a little in the movies - where we have space stations%2C or pure science missions. However%2C the US miltiary%2C the british navy%2C etc. have demonstrated that warships can carry out basic exporation and some science experiements in the course of their cruise. %0D%0A%0D%0AThus my rant above - if Starfleet believes that putting delibrite weaknesses in their weapons creates some sort of benefit to peace%2C then they%27re smoking something. All that happens is that your personnel are more likely to be killed than your enemies. %0D%0A%0D%0Asorry%2C with the exception of the %5Bi%5DST%3ATOS%5B%2Fi%5D more realistic than it%27s descendents.%0D%0A%0D%0At.%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A 38|16|37|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|LostFactor||15:53:03|12/01/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-01 AT 03:53 PM (EST)[/font][p]%3EI recognize that Starfleet doesn%27t believe it%27s purpose is to fight %0D%0A%3Ewars. However%2C you build a craft that has shields%2C miliary grade %0D%0A%3Eweapons%2C teach all your captains how to fight%2C have a security staff%2C %0D%0A%3Eand in general treat your crews with military discipline%2C you have a %0D%0A%3Emilitary force. %0D%0A%0D%0AStarfleet %5Bb%5Dis%5B%2Fb%5D a military organization. In terms of structure%2C it%27s military. In terms of firepower%2C it%27s military. In terms of focus%2C it isn%27t%2C but only barely. The fact that most of the ships are designed to hold civilians doesn%27t convince me that the Federation is unaware of what Starfleet really is%2C and always has been. %28For that matter%2C any organization where a good portion of the ship carries sidearms as a matter of course...%29 The reason why nobody comes out and says that Starfleet is the military wing of the UFP is because the UFP is supposed to be a non-military organization - its whole purpose is a union of planets who have security without pointing guns at one another. %28Also%2C I%27d be willing to bet that%27s a selling point for the Federation. Romulans have a military%2C the UFP has Starfleet.%29%0D%0A%0D%0AConsidering how utopian Trek is supposed to be%2C though%2C it%27s sort of unnecessary to read too much into Starfleet%27s purpose and design. Starfleet consists almost completely of The Good Guys%2C and part of being The Good Guys%2C I suppose%2C is having an exploration ship that can take on lethal opposing craft and come out on top with regularity.%0D%0A-Eliot %22Not getting into the Galaxy-class bashing for my own reasons%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendence Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Flostfactor%2F%7CThoughts of the moment%2C and such%5D 40|16|37|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Laudre||16:39:22|12/01/2001|%3EI recognize that Starfleet doesn%27t believe it%27s purpose is to fight %0D%0A%3Ewars. However%2C you build a craft that has shields%2C miliary grade %0D%0A%3Eweapons%2C teach all your captains how to fight%2C have a security staff%2C %0D%0A%3Eand in general treat your crews with military discipline%2C you have a %0D%0A%3Emilitary force. %0D%0A%0D%0AStarfleet is a military force in all ways except for focus and name. Its officers all have some degree of scientific knowledge%3B that%27s demonstrated time and again. %28The qualifications just to get into the Academy%2C as demonstrated in the episode where Wesley took his exam%2C are downright brutal by modern standards%2C and probably still high by the 24th century.%29 The captains and other senior officers of its vessels are typically trained in things like diplomacy and xenomedicine to make forming relationships with new political entities easier%2C and more benificial.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe UFP is well aware that%2C in times of war%2C Starfleet is its military force. And even dedicated science%2Fexploration vessels %28such as the %5Bi%5DNova%5B%2Fi%5D-class%2C which is based on the %5Bi%5DDefiant%5B%2Fi%5D project%27s pathfinder ship -- just pick up the DS9 tech reference and you%27ll see the resemblance%29 carry weapons and shields for the purposes of self-defense%3B after all%2C one never knows when one might meet a hostile force.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd%2C I might add%2C it would appear that Starfleet does field fighters%2C of a sort%3A the %5Bi%5DPeregrine%5B%2Fi%5D-class appears to be a heavily-armed %28for its size%29 single-pilot craft. %28Of course%2C it%27s still somewhere around 60%27 long%2C give or take%2C so it%27s probably got a transporter%2C head%2C and sleeping cabin%2C just like most %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D-era designs.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22 -- Terry Pratchett%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Flaudre%2F%7CFollow my random thoughts%5D%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Feva_densetsu%2F%7CFollow my creative process%5D 41|17|40|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|LostFactor||16:57:19|12/01/2001|%3EAnd%2C I might add%2C it would appear that Starfleet does field fighters%2C %0D%0A%3Eof a sort%3A the %5Bi%5DPeregrine%5B%2Fi%5D-class appears to be a heavily-armed %0D%0A%3E%28for its size%29 single-pilot craft. %28Of course%2C it%27s still somewhere %0D%0A%3Earound 60%27 long%2C give or take%2C so it%27s probably got a transporter%2C %0D%0A%3Ehead%2C and sleeping cabin%2C just like most %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D-era designs.%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AHeh. Funny%2C I should have remembered the %5Bi%5DPeregrine%5B%2Fi%5D myself%3B I have fond memories of %22those cool Maquis ships they%27re fielding.%22 The main reason%2C I think%2C that Starfleet fields no fighters isn%27t because of focus%2C it%27s because of the opposition. After all%2C it%27s rare that something as big as the Enterprise has been so huge that it%27s gotten outmaneuvered%2C so why not make a bigger ship that%27s better defended%3F%0D%0A-Eliot %22The %5Bi%5DSteamrunner%5B%2Fi%5D has my vote%22 Lefebvre%0D%0A-%3D%28%29%3D-%0D%0AWe%27re only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.lostfactor.net%7CElectronic Transcendence Productions%5D%0D%0AProducer of%2C um%2C stuff for an unspecified time-period.%0D%0A%5BLink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Flostfactor%2F%7CThoughts of the moment%2C and such%5D 43|17|40|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Gryphon||17:03:09|12/01/2001|%3EAnd%2C I might add%2C it would appear that Starfleet does field fighters%2C %0D%0A%3Eof a sort%3A the %5Bi%5DPeregrine%5B%2Fi%5D-class appears to be a heavily-armed %0D%0A%3E%28for its size%29 single-pilot craft. %28Of course%2C it%27s still somewhere %0D%0A%3Earound 60%27 long%2C give or take%2C so it%27s probably got a transporter%2C %0D%0A%3Ehead%2C and sleeping cabin%2C just like most %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D-era designs.%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AHey%21 I said that last night on IRC%2C except I was more sarcastic. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 45|18|43|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Laudre||22:54:00|12/01/2001|%3E%3EAnd%2C I might add%2C it would appear that Starfleet does field fighters%2C %0D%0A%3E%3Eof a sort%3A the %5Bi%5DPeregrine%5B%2Fi%5D-class appears to be a heavily-armed %0D%0A%3E%3E%28for its size%29 single-pilot craft. %28Of course%2C it%27s still somewhere %0D%0A%3E%3Earound 60%27 long%2C give or take%2C so it%27s probably got a transporter%2C %0D%0A%3E%3Ehead%2C and sleeping cabin%2C just like most %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D-era designs.%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EHey%21 I said that last night on IRC%2C except I was more sarcastic. %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AAnd talking about a different class of ship... but it does seem to be a truism of %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D-era Starfleet design. Unless it%27s a box strapped to an impulse engine %28like the... Type 15 shuttlecraft%2C I believe%29%2C it%27s got to have a substantial number of amenities or%2C presumably%2C Starfleet officers and crew would whine about its inadequacies%2C or something. Well%2C okay%2C the %5Bi%5DDelta Flyer%5B%2Fi%5D doesn%27t seem to have much in the way of amenities%2C but it%27s an ugly%2C shapeless blob that I%27d just as soon forget about. The only thing I ever liked about that ship was its control yoke%2C though it hardly seems appropriate.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean --%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.thebrokenlink.org%5D %5Bb%5DThe Broken Link 4.0 is live%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22 -- Terry Pratchett%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Flaudre%2F%7CFollow my random thoughts%5D%0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Feva_densetsu%2F%7CFollow my creative process%5D 42|16|37|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Gryphon||17:01:16|12/01/2001|%3E%3EJust for the sake of fairness%2C Federation starships %28with the %0D%0A%3E%3Eexception of the %5Bi%5DDefiant%5B%2Fi%5D class%29 are not%2C primarily%2C warships. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI recognize that Starfleet doesn%27t believe it%27s purpose is to fight %0D%0A%3Ewars. However%2C you build a craft that has shields%2C miliary grade %0D%0A%3Eweapons%2C teach all your captains how to fight%2C have a security staff%2C %0D%0A%3Eand in general treat your crews with military discipline%2C you have a %0D%0A%3Emilitary force. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThat Starfleet delibritely handicaps itself in this regard is %0D%0A%3Eamazingly frustrating to me. As if you can%27t have warships that do %0D%0A%3Eboth science%2C exploraration and conquest. Please. %0D%0A%0D%0AThey do%2C yes. Even back in %5Bi%5DTOS%5B%2Fi%5D%2C the %5Bi%5DEnterprise%5B%2Fi%5D wasn%27t as powerful a weapon as she could have been%2C because of all the space and power spent on laboratories and sensors%2C but she was still a capable fighting platform. My point is that Federation starships are not built %5Bi%5Dsolely%5B%2Fi%5D to fight%2C like%2C say%2C Klingon ships. They%27re intended to be multirole. Of course one of those roles is combat - no one ever tried to deny that except Roddenberry in his dotage%2C when he got very%2C very weird. Starfleet aren%27t deliberately handicapping themselves - they%27re trying to %5Bi%5Dexpand%5B%2Fi%5D their capabilities and be more than just a war fleet%2C and in that regard%2C I think they succeed quite well.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28Part of this is also tied into the Federation%27s own purpose%2C which is not conquest%2C except perhaps of a cultural nature%2C but communication and understanding. They%27ll fight if attacked%2C and since the galaxy is a dangerous place and battle scenes are necessary to sustain ratings%2C they%27re attacked quite often - but their mission is not to start fights%2C so you don%27t see them developing first-strike weapons%2C for instance.%29%0D%0A%0D%0AIn later years%2C when the Federation finds itself involved in a number of wars through no fault of its own%2C Starfleet %5Bi%5Ddoes%5B%2Fi%5D shift its focus more toward the defense end of the spectrum%2C leading to things like the %5Bi%5DDefiant%5B%2Fi%5D class. %28Although they were still trying to hang onto that %27peaceful exploration%27 angle at some level%2C or they wouldn%27t have kept building hopelessly weenie ships like the %5Bi%5DIntrepid%5B%2Fi%5D class... %29%0D%0A%0D%0AIn the %5Bi%5DUF%5B%2Fi%5D universe%2C of course%2C things are quite different nowadays%2C and getting more different all the time... %0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 48|17|42|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Matrix Dragon||23:54:01|12/09/2001|%3EThey do%2C yes. Even back in %5Bi%5DTOS%5B%2Fi%5D%2C the %5Bi%5DEnterprise%5B%2Fi%5D wasn%27t %0D%0A%3Eas powerful a weapon as she could have been%2C because of all the space %0D%0A%3Eand power spent on laboratories and sensors%2C but she was still a %0D%0A%3Ecapable fighting platform. My point is that Federation starships are %0D%0A%3Enot built %5Bi%5Dsolely%5B%2Fi%5D to fight%2C like%2C say%2C Klingon ships. They%27re %0D%0A%3Eintended to be multirole. Of course one of those roles is combat - no %0D%0A%3Eone ever tried to deny that except Roddenberry in his dotage%2C when he %0D%0A%3Egot very%2C very weird. Starfleet aren%27t deliberately handicapping %0D%0A%3Ethemselves - they%27re trying to %5Bi%5Dexpand%5B%2Fi%5D their capabilities and be %0D%0A%3Emore than just a war fleet%2C and in that regard%2C I think they succeed %0D%0A%3Equite well. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%28Part of this is also tied into the Federation%27s own purpose%2C which is %0D%0A%3Enot conquest%2C except perhaps of a cultural nature%2C but communication %0D%0A%3Eand understanding. They%27ll fight if attacked%2C and since the galaxy is %0D%0A%3Ea dangerous place and battle scenes are necessary to sustain ratings%2C %0D%0A%3Ethey%27re attacked quite often - but their mission is not to start %0D%0A%3Efights%2C so you don%27t see them developing first-strike weapons%2C for %0D%0A%3Einstance.%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EIn later years%2C when the Federation finds itself involved in a number %0D%0A%3Eof wars through no fault of its own%2C Starfleet %5Bi%5Ddoes%5B%2Fi%5D shift its %0D%0A%3Efocus more toward the defense end of the spectrum%2C leading to things %0D%0A%3Elike the %5Bi%5DDefiant%5B%2Fi%5D class. %28Although they were still trying to %0D%0A%3Ehang onto that %27peaceful exploration%27 angle at some level%2C or they %0D%0A%3Ewouldn%27t have kept building hopelessly weenie ships like the %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5DIntrepid%5B%2Fi%5D class... %29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EIn the %5Bi%5DUF%5B%2Fi%5D universe%2C of course%2C things are quite different %0D%0A%3Enowadays%2C and getting more different all the time... %0D%0A%0D%0AIn the %5Bi%5DUF%5B%2Fi%5D universe%2C how much of a military focus do ships like the %5Bi%5DGalaxy%5B%2Fi%5D-class have%3F Do they have the extras of the orignal class in Star Trek%2C or are they pure military vessels%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AMatrix Dragon%0D%0A%22Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards%2C for they are subtle and quick to anger.%22 --J.R.R. Tolkien %0D%0A%22Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons%2C for obvious reasons.%22 -Matrix Dragon 49|18|48|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Gryphon||00:32:50|12/10/2001|%3EIn the %5Bi%5DUF%5B%2Fi%5D universe%2C how much of a military focus do ships like %0D%0A%3Ethe %5Bi%5DGalaxy%5B%2Fi%5D-class have%3F Do they have the extras of the orignal %0D%0A%3Eclass in Star Trek%2C or are they pure military vessels%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C they%27re classified as battleships... %0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 50|11|21|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Blob||18:02:27|12/19/2001|%0D%0A%3E%3EOh%2C and while I%27m thinking of it%2C did your company have anything to do %0D%0A%3E%3Ewith %5Bi%5DThe Fellowship of the Ring%5B%2Fi%5D%3F From what I%27ve heard%2C the SFX %0D%0A%3E%3Ein the film make ILM look like college boys making fan films. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYes%2C although it was a small part of it--think water horses if you%27ve %0D%0A%3Eread the books %28which I haven%27t yet%2C figured I%27d see it first before %0D%0A%3Egetting into them%29. WETA over in New Zealand did most of the heavy %0D%0A%3Elifting. I think our stuff looks great and I have no real context %0D%0A%3Eyet%2C and friends who do are pretty much speechless. And everything %0D%0A%3Eelse I%27ve seen in trailers is equally impressive%2C so we%27ll see how it %0D%0A%3Ecomes together. %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ve just seen the movie and I _was_ speechless when I saw the water horses%21%0D%0A%0D%0A----------------%0D%0A%22And what _are_ we dealing with%3F Little green men%21%3F%22%0D%0A%22No. Little green blobs in bonded polycarbite-armor%21%22 51|12|50|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Wedge||18:34:56|12/19/2001|[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-01 AT 06:36 PM (EST)[/font][p]%3EI%27ve just seen the movie and I _was_ speechless when I saw the water %0D%0A%3Ehorses%21 %0D%0A%0D%0AYay us. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0AThose shots are the only ones I%27ve seen beyond the trailers%2C and I won%27t get a chance to see the movie until I%27m in Florida after Friday%2C so I%27m dodging any kind of review or anything until I can get my butt in a seat. We%27re finishing work on %5Bi%5DThe Time Machine%5B%2Fi%5D and I%27m going to be working right up until about 6 hours before my flight...%0D%0A%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0AChad Collier--%5Bi%5D...where I will then blissfully not think about any of it for two and a half weeks...%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0ADigital Bitch%0D%0AJ. Random VFX Company 28|8|15|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Chris Redfield||09:45:18|11/30/2001|%0D%0A%3ESure%2C if by %22%5Bb%5DREALLY%5B%2Fb%5D bad movie%22 you mean %22actually quite a good %0D%0A%3Emovie.%22 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5DThe Voyage Home%5B%2Fi%5D remains the single most successful effort at %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5DTrek%5B%2Fi%5D comedy%2C and is therefore quite entertaining%2C and has real %0D%0A%3Etension%2C solid characterizations %28and even some development%2C on %0D%0A%3ESpock%27s part%29%2C and performances that I quite enjoy. It%27s not a bad %0D%0A%3Emovie because it lacks explosions or other vastly overdone idiocy. %0D%0A%0D%0AI actually don%27t mind that it lacks big explosions or other vastly overdone idiocy. I really dislike how it takes the wonderful Trek world %28which I would view the movie to escape to%29 and brings it to the 80s.%0D%0A%0D%0A-----------------------------------%0D%0AChris can%27t handle chemicals 10|4|3|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Matrix Dragon||19:51:10|11/29/2001|%3E%3EAt least this gave them an excuse to build a new Enterprise. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAnd for that%2C I will forgive them any plot%2C however contrived%2C that %0D%0A%3Eallowed them to get there. %0D%0A%0D%0ADespite getting rid of the %5Bi%5DEnterprise-D%5B%2Fi%5D and getting a %5Bi%5DSovereign%5B%2Fi%5D-class ship%2C my mind still refuses to accept that Will Riker%2C who has served under Picard for years%2C would have his ass handed to him by a ragtag group of Klingons in a rusty old starship. He had a better ship%2C better training%2C better mind and more experience. He should have had his butt whipped by someone with a bit more class.%0D%0A%0D%0AMatrix Dragon%0D%0A%22Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards%2C for they are subtle and quick to anger.%22 --J.R.R. Tolkien %0D%0A%22Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons%2C for obvious reasons.%22 -Matrix Dragon 5|3|2|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|TRB||23:23:37|11/28/2001|I can%27t quote it directly%2C since I no longer have the book%2C but the Enterprise D technical manual%2C which I bought just after seeing Generations%2C and was published around season 5 or so%2C specifically states that no Federation starship uses static shield frequencies anymore%2C meaning what the Bird of Prey did should have been technically impossible at the time%2C on top of everything else. Still%2C it did get us the Sovereign class Enterprise%2C so... %0D%0A%0D%0ATRB%0D%0A%0D%0A%28who thought the triple-nacelled%2C giant phaser cannon equipped Enterprise-D from the final episode had some potential%2C at least%29 %0D%0A%0D%0A%22You are... what you do... when it counts.%22 -The Masao 7|4|5|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Star Ranger4||03:03:25|11/29/2001|%3EI can%27t quote it directly%2C since I no longer have the book%2C but the %0D%0A%3EEnterprise D technical manual%2C which I bought just after seeing %0D%0A%3EGenerations%2C and was published around season 5 or so%2C specifically %0D%0A%3Estates that no Federation starship uses static shield frequencies %0D%0A%3Eanymore%2C meaning what the Bird of Prey did should have been %0D%0A%3Etechnically impossible at the time%2C on top of everything else. Still%2C %0D%0A%3Eit did get us the Sovereign class Enterprise%2C so... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ETRB %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%28who thought the triple-nacelled%2C giant phaser cannon equipped %0D%0A%3EEnterprise-D from the final episode had some potential%2C at least%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%22You are... what you do... when it counts.%22 -The Masao %0D%0A%0D%0AThis is all so very true... I wonder what UF-Gryph would put in that spinal mount. Only think we can rule out is a reflex cannon%2C because it isn%27t a proper shape or size to set up the reflex harmonic...%0D%0A___________________%0D%0A%0D%0AJer told Vaughn about me. I am once again a victim of Murphy%27s law... 8|5|7|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Gryphon||04:54:09|11/29/2001|%3EThis is all so very true... I wonder what UF-Gryph would put in that %0D%0A%3Espinal mount. Only think we can rule out is a reflex cannon%2C because %0D%0A%3Eit isn%27t a proper shape or size to set up the reflex harmonic... %0D%0A%0D%0AI would not be particularly inclined to spend money%2C time and effort embellishing a %5Bi%5DGalaxy%5B%2Fi%5D-class spaceframe. As my grandfather says%2C you can%27t polish a turd.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 9|6|8|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Berk||09:00:47|11/29/2001|%3EI would not be particularly inclined to spend money%2C time and effort %0D%0A%3Eembellishing a %5Bi%5DGalaxy%5B%2Fi%5D-class spaceframe. As my grandfather %0D%0A%3Esays%2C you can%27t polish a turd. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe %5Bi%5DGalaxy%5B%2Fi%5D frame is an ugly duckling that failed to grow into a graceful swan. It remained an ugly duck for the rest of it%27s days.%0D%0A%0D%0ABerk Watkins%0D%0AStudent of Quantum Bogodynamics... 25|6|8|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Star Ranger4||02:23:08|11/30/2001|%3E%3EThis is all so very true... I wonder what UF-Gryph would put in that %0D%0A%3E%3Espinal mount. Only think we can rule out is a reflex cannon%2C because %0D%0A%3E%3Eit isn%27t a proper shape or size to set up the reflex harmonic... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI would not be particularly inclined to spend money%2C time and effort %0D%0A%3Eembellishing a %5Bi%5DGalaxy%5B%2Fi%5D-class spaceframe. As my grandfather %0D%0A%3Esays%2C you can%27t polish a turd. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0ANo%2C no... I wasn%27t reffering to the Galaxy class... The upgraded Soverign you see Future Riker commanding in %27All Good things%27. Came swooping down into frame and saved Bev%27s hosptial ship from I forget who... Basic Soverign design except for an extra engine%2C plus a gosh arful spinal mount phaser at the point of the upper hull. NCC-1701-E%2C not D%2C maybe even F or G.%0D%0A%0D%0A___________________%0D%0A%0D%0AJer told Vaughn about me. I am once again a victim of Murphy%27s law... 26|7|25|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Gryphon||02:41:28|11/30/2001|%3ENo%2C no... I wasn%27t reffering to the Galaxy class... The upgraded %0D%0A%3ESoverign you see Future Riker commanding in %27All Good things%27.%0D%0A%0D%0AUh... you%27re either from a parallel universe or on crack. The %5Bi%5DSovereign%5B%2Fi%5D class hadn%27t even been thought of%2C let alone designed%2C when the %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D TV series wrapped. It was developed for the second %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D movie%2C %5Bi%5DFirst Contact%5B%2Fi%5D%2C several years later.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe alternate-future ship is a modified NCC-1701-D. I%27ve got a toy around here somewhere that transforms from the regular version to that one %28somebody bought it for me%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AMind you%2C if you %5Bi%5Dare%5B%2Fi%5D from a parallel universe%2C I wish you%27d fix me up with a tape of your universe%27s version of %5Bi%5DAll Good Things...%5B%2Fi%5D - it sounds much better than the one I saw. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 27|8|26|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Wedge||02:55:54|11/30/2001|%3E%3ENo%2C no... I wasn%27t reffering to the Galaxy class... The upgraded %0D%0A%3E%3ESoverign you see Future Riker commanding in %27All Good things%27.%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EUh... you%27re either from a parallel universe or on crack. The %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5DSovereign%5B%2Fi%5D class hadn%27t even been thought of%2C let alone %0D%0A%3Edesigned%2C when the %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D TV series wrapped. It was developed for %0D%0A%3Ethe second %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D movie%2C %5Bi%5DFirst Contact%5B%2Fi%5D%2C several years %0D%0A%3Elater. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThe alternate-future ship is a modified NCC-1701-D. I%27ve got a toy %0D%0A%3Earound here somewhere that transforms from the regular version to that %0D%0A%3Eone %28somebody bought it for me%29. %0D%0A%0D%0AAnd since Gryphon beat me to it%2C here%27s some pics I found for what I was going to post...%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.stinsv.com%2FTNg%2F640ship%2Fagtent1.jpgx%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.stinsv.com%2FTNg%2F640ship%2Fentdagt2.jpgx%0D%0A%0D%0A%28remove the x at the end after getting the 404%29%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27d hurt something if they broke up a Sovereign%27s lines like that. As far as the Galaxy goes%2C I%27ll paraphrase %5Bi%5DCaddyshack%5B%2Fi%5D%2C %22Do you get a free bowl of soup with that refit%3F Oh%2C looks good on you%2C though.%22 %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0AInterestingly%2C for %5Bi%5DGenerations%5B%2Fi%5D%2C they actually made the 1701-D a little wider than the tv model %28if you can believe that%29 so it%27d look a little more interesting on the wider screen in the movie. It was probably one of the reasons they crashed it%2C so as to facilitate the design of a new ship that would be better suited to CinemaScope%2C hence the 1701-E being long and sleek like it is. Your fun fact for the day...errr%2C night.%0D%0A%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22Mike Wazowski%21%22%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A------------------------%0D%0AChad Collier%0D%0ADigital Bitch%0D%0AJ. Random VFX Company 32|9|27|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Matrix Dragon||18:45:39|11/30/2001|%3E%3EThe alternate-future ship is a modified NCC-1701-D. I%27ve got a toy %0D%0A%3E%3Earound here somewhere that transforms from the regular version to that %0D%0A%3E%3Eone %28somebody bought it for me%29. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAnd since Gryphon beat me to it%2C here%27s some pics I found for what I %0D%0A%3Ewas going to post... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3Ehttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.stinsv.com%2FTNg%2F640ship%2Fagtent1.jpgx %0D%0A%3Ehttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.stinsv.com%2FTNg%2F640ship%2Fentdagt2.jpgx %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI%27d hurt something if they broke up a Sovereign%27s lines like that. As %0D%0A%3Efar as the Galaxy goes%2C I%27ll paraphrase %5Bi%5DCaddyshack%5B%2Fi%5D%2C %22Do you get %0D%0A%3Ea free bowl of soup with that refit%3F Oh%2C looks good on you%2C though.%22 %0D%0A%3E%3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0APersonally%2C I don%27t think a third engine fits in with Starfleet designs%2C even crappy ones. It makes the Galaxy look even worse%2C like it has a deformed growth in its back. If anyone does that to a Sovereign%2C they%27ll die painfully.%0D%0A%0D%0AMatrix Dragon%0D%0A%22Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards%2C for they are subtle and quick to anger.%22 --J.R.R. Tolkien %0D%0A%22Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons%2C for obvious reasons.%22 -Matrix Dragon 34|9|27|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|TRB||19:14:29|11/30/2001|%3E%3E%3ENo%2C no... I wasn%27t reffering to the Galaxy class... The upgraded %0D%0A%3E%3E%3ESoverign you see Future Riker commanding in %27All Good things%27.%0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EUh... you%27re either from a parallel universe or on crack. The %0D%0A%3E%3E%5Bi%5DSovereign%5B%2Fi%5D class hadn%27t even been thought of%2C let alone %0D%0A%3E%3Edesigned%2C when the %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D TV series wrapped. It was developed for %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe second %5Bi%5DTNG%5B%2Fi%5D movie%2C %5Bi%5DFirst Contact%5B%2Fi%5D%2C several years %0D%0A%3E%3Elater. %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EThe alternate-future ship is a modified NCC-1701-D. I%27ve got a toy %0D%0A%3E%3Earound here somewhere that transforms from the regular version to that %0D%0A%3E%3Eone %28somebody bought it for me%29. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAnd since Gryphon beat me to it%2C here%27s some pics I found for what I %0D%0A%3Ewas going to post... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3Ehttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.stinsv.com%2FTNg%2F640ship%2Fagtent1.jpgx %0D%0A%3Ehttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.stinsv.com%2FTNg%2F640ship%2Fentdagt2.jpgx %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E------------------------ %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5D%22Mike Wazowski%21%22%5B%2Fi%5D %0D%0A%3E------------------------ %0D%0A%3EChad Collier %0D%0A%3EDigital Bitch %0D%0A%3EJ. Random VFX Company %0D%0A%0D%0AHmm. Uglier than I remember it. My visual memory didn%27t recall the third nacelle being up on that deformed hump like that. Still%2C I recall seeing it mostly from the front%2C not the rear. And yes%2C that treatment to a Sovereign would be lynch mob worthy. But you can%27t do much actual -harm- to a Galaxy. P-%29 %0D%0A%0D%0ATRB%0D%0A%0D%0A%22You are... what you do... when it counts.%22 -The Masao 36|10|34|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Blob||05:13:48|12/01/2001|%3EBut you can%27t do %0D%0A%3Emuch actual -harm- to a Galaxy. P-%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AUnless you%27re a 20 years old Bird of Prey. %5E_%5E%0D%0A%0D%0A----------------%0D%0A%22And what _are_ we dealing with%3F Little green men%21%3F%22%0D%0A%22No. Little green blobs in bonded polycarbite-armor%21%22 39|11|36|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Star Ranger4||16:18:56|12/01/2001|%3E%3EBut you can%27t do %0D%0A%3E%3Emuch actual -harm- to a Galaxy. P-%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EUnless you%27re a 20 years old Bird of Prey. %5E_%5E %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AErr... You also need to be piloted by the main Antagonist or similar main charecter. %28Recall that the Dumas sisters have quite a history prior to their appearance in the movie%29%0D%0A%0D%0A___________________%0D%0A%0D%0AJer told Vaughn about me. I am once again a victim of Murphy%27s law... 44|12|39|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Blob||17:12:00|12/01/2001|%3E%3E%3EBut you can%27t do %0D%0A%3E%3E%3Emuch actual -harm- to a Galaxy. P-%29 %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EUnless you%27re a 20 years old Bird of Prey. %5E_%5E %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EErr... You also need to be piloted by the main Antagonist or similar %0D%0A%3Emain charecter. %28Recall that the Dumas sisters have quite a history %0D%0A%3Eprior to their appearance in the movie%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AYou also need the help of a Mad Scientist%28tm%29%21%0D%0A%0D%0A----------------%0D%0A%22And what _are_ we dealing with%3F Little green men%21%3F%22%0D%0A%22No. Little green blobs in bonded polycarbite-armor%21%22 46|9|27|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Astynax||01:13:23|12/02/2001|%3EAnd since Gryphon beat me to it%2C here%27s some pics I found for what I %0D%0A%3Ewas going to post... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI%27d hurt something if they broke up a Sovereign%27s lines like that. As %0D%0A%3Efar as the Galaxy goes%2C I%27ll paraphrase %5Bi%5DCaddyshack%5B%2Fi%5D%2C %22Do you get %0D%0A%3Ea free bowl of soup with that refit%3F Oh%2C looks good on you%2C though.%22 %0D%0A%3E%3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AYe Flippin%27 Gods... %5Bb%5DTHAT%5B%2Fb%5D is one truly ugly ship... it makes the venerable ol%27 %5Bi%5DMillenium Falcon%5B%2Fi%5D seem sleek and polished by comparison...%0D%0A%0D%0A-%3D%7B%28Astynax%29%7D%3D-%0D%0A%22Darkness beyond Twilight%22 47|10|46|||||RE%3A ranting about Star Trek VII|Shadowhavoc||20:08:43|12/02/2001|%3E%3EAnd since Gryphon beat me to it%2C here%27s some pics I found for what I %0D%0A%3E%3Ewas going to post... %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EI%27d hurt something if they broke up a Sovereign%27s lines like that. As %0D%0A%3E%3Efar as the Galaxy goes%2C I%27ll paraphrase %5Bi%5DCaddyshack%5B%2Fi%5D%2C %22Do you get %0D%0A%3E%3Ea free bowl of soup with that refit%3F Oh%2C looks good on you%2C though.%22 %0D%0A%3E%3E%3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYe Flippin%27 Gods... %5Bb%5DTHAT%5B%2Fb%5D is one truly ugly ship... it makes the %0D%0A%3Evenerable ol%27 %5Bi%5DMillenium Falcon%5B%2Fi%5D seem sleek and polished by %0D%0A%3Ecomparison... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0AThat thing%27s ugly even by my standards.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd usually I%27d say%2C %22Who cares as long as it works%3F%22