14||0|790|0|yes
0|0|0|||1||Anthy%27s garden|Wedge||17:57:09|11/25/2002|Relevence is low%2C so I%27m dumping here%2C but it%27s an interesting article anyway.%0D%0A%0D%0ALong live the gengineers%21%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fcnews.canoe.ca%2FCNEWS%2FScience%2F2002%2F11%2F24%2F5466-ap.html%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fstuff%2Fnall.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0AJ. Random Pixel Pusher%0D%0ADigital Domain%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DRCW %231138%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D
1|1|0|||1||RE%3A Anthy%27s garden|EasternExile||01:27:17|11/26/2002|Yeah%21 Blue roses%21 %0D%0A%0D%0AWhen do we get silver ones%3F
2|1|0|||1||Blue roses don%27t exist%3F|sideways||09:33:44|11/26/2002|But . . . there%27s a blue rosebush outside my %5Bi%5Dhouse%5B%2Fi%5D. It%27s in my yard. We have to trim it every year so it doesn%27t completely obscure Dave%27s window. I bring blue roses to the bank staff during the spring. They love me for it. I %5Bi%5Dknow%5B%2Fi%5D blue roses exist%21%0D%0A%0D%0AMike Thedford%0D%0ADark Nation%0D%0ADictator at Large
3|2|2|||1||RE%3A Blue roses don%27t exist%3F|Xervis||09:53:15|11/26/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON 11-26-02 AT 04:41 PM (EST)]%3EBut . . . there%27s a blue rosebush outside my %5Bi%5Dhouse%5B%2Fi%5D. It%27s in my %0D%0A%3Eyard. We have to trim it every year so it doesn%27t completely obscure %0D%0A%3EDave%27s window. I bring blue roses to the bank staff during the spring. %0D%0A%3EThey love me for it. I %5Bi%5Dknow%5B%2Fi%5D blue roses exist%21 %0D%0A%0D%0Ado me a favor and send me a bushle of them%2C I can woo some of the women around school with them %2Agrin%2A%0D%0A%0D%0Amy question is%2C if there %5Bi%5Dare%5B%2Fi%5D blue roses in and around the world%28I personally havent seen any%2C but I%27ll take sideways word for it%29%2C why the hell are they wasting money and man power trying to  %22splice genes%22 trying to %22create%22 blue roses%3F they could be putting the time and effort into something worthwhiel%2C like cancer reserch. jeez%2C I marvel and the stupidity of the science industry sometimes%28though I%27ll aiming to enter as a bio-chemist or Virologest%7BI hope thats the name%7D so I cant really talk%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Rambling postings of a %0D%0ARandom idiot.%28true to form%2C eh%3F%29%0D%0A%28updated because%2C in my haste%2C I forgot to close the italics tag.%29%0D%0A%0D%0AXervis
4|3|3|||||RE%3A Blue roses don%27t exist%3F|aes||13:57:29|11/26/2002|Speaking as a scientist%2C currently in a semi-esoteric field and hoping to go to grad school in an even more %22useless%22 field%2C I feel I need to respond to this. I%27m aware it was probably just an offhand comment - however%2C it%27s reinforcing some negative stereotypes of scientists that I%27d rather not see perpetuated.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E why the hell are they wasting money and man power trying to  %0D%0A%3E%22splice genes%22 trying to %22create%22 blue roses%3F they could be putting %0D%0A%3Ethe time and effort into something worthwhiel%2C like cancer reserch. %0D%0A%0D%0AFirst of all%2C though they have some similarities%2C studying the genome of roses is an entirely different field than cancer research. I%27m no expert on the field of biology%2C but I%27m pretty sure that most cancer researchers hold medical degrees%2C while most rose researchers do not. The training is different enough that one cannot simply stop working on roses and start working on cancer research. Many researchers don%27t choose to go into a field because it%27s practical%2C or %22worthwhile%22 %28based on a somewhat arbitrary set of views%29 - they choose a field based on what they find interesting. %0D%0A%0D%0ASecond%2C what%27s worthwhile is a relatively difficult thing to decide. Attempting to make blue roses sounds pretty useless right now%2C I%27ll admit. But we don%27t know what the researchers will discover in the process of making those blue roses. Perhaps they%27ll discover a gene%2C or a method of splicing genes%2C that will cure cancer 30 years down the road. Maybe they%27ll find a way to make organic spaceships. Or maybe they%27ll just figure out how to make blue roses%2C or decide that it can%27t be done. The point is%2C we don%27t know. Many things we consider indispensible in modern society were the result%2C directly or indirectly%2C of research that looked silly or useless at the time. %0D%0A%0D%0A%3Ejeez%2C I marvel and the stupidity of the science industry %0D%0A%3Esometimes%28though I%27ll aiming to enter as a bio-chemist or Virologest%7BI %0D%0A%3Ehope thats the name%7D so I cant really talk%29. %0D%0A%0D%0AI take issue with the phrase %22science industry.%22 I think of %22industry%22 as something that produces a product - science itself produces no product save further knowledge. If we look at science as a means to an end %28be it a cure for cancer%2C a faster computer%2C or a better mousetrap%29%2C and stop when we hit it%2C what%27s the point%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Anne%2C resident physics%2Fastro geek.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28And yes%2C I am aware that I%27m over-romanticizing the process of scientific discovery.%29
5|4|4|||1||RE%3A Blue roses don%27t exist%3F|Wedge||15:39:00|11/26/2002|%3ESpeaking as a scientist%2C currently in a semi-esoteric field and hoping %0D%0A%3Eto go to grad school in an even more %22useless%22 field%2C I feel I need to %0D%0A%3Erespond to this. I%27m aware it was probably just an offhand comment - %0D%0A%3Ehowever%2C it%27s reinforcing some negative stereotypes of scientists that %0D%0A%3EI%27d rather not see perpetuated. %0D%0A%0D%0AThank you%2C now I don%27t have to get all ranty to say the same things you just did.  %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%28And yes%2C I am aware that I%27m over-romanticizing the process of %0D%0A%3Escientific discovery.%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AI don%27t think so%2C and if you are I wish more people did.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fstuff%2Fnall.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0AJ. Random Pixel Pusher%0D%0ADigital Domain%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DRCW %231138%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D
6|4|4|||1||RE%3A Blue roses don%27t exist%3F|Xervis||17:06:37|11/26/2002|%3EFirst of all%2C though they have some similarities%2C studying the genome %0D%0A%3Eof roses is an entirely different field than cancer research. I%27m no %0D%0A%3Eexpert on the field of biology%2C but I%27m pretty sure that most cancer %0D%0A%3Eresearchers hold medical degrees%2C while most rose researchers do not. %0D%0A%0D%0Apoint.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThe training is different enough that one cannot simply stop working %0D%0A%3Eon roses and start working on cancer research. Many researchers don%27t %0D%0A%3Echoose to go into a field because it%27s practical%2C or %22worthwhile%22 %0D%0A%3E%28based on a somewhat arbitrary set of views%29 - they choose a field %0D%0A%3Ebased on what they find interesting. %0D%0A%0D%0Aagain%2C point.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ESecond%2C what%27s worthwhile is a relatively difficult thing to decide. %0D%0A%3EAttempting to make blue roses sounds pretty useless right now%2C I%27ll %0D%0A%3Eadmit. But we don%27t know what the researchers will discover in the %0D%0A%3Eprocess of making those blue roses. Perhaps they%27ll discover a gene%2C %0D%0A%3Eor a method of splicing genes%2C that will cure cancer 30 years down the %0D%0A%3Eroad. Maybe they%27ll find a way to make organic spaceships. Or maybe %0D%0A%3Ethey%27ll just figure out how to make blue roses%2C or decide that it %0D%0A%3Ecan%27t be done. The point is%2C we don%27t know. Many things we consider %0D%0A%3Eindispensible in modern society were the result%2C directly or %0D%0A%3Eindirectly%2C of research that looked silly or useless at the time. %0D%0A%0D%0Alike peniciline%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3Ejeez%2C I marvel and the stupidity of the science industry %0D%0A%3E%3Esometimes%28though I%27ll aiming to enter as a bio-chemist or Virologest%7BI %0D%0A%3E%3Ehope thats the name%7D so I cant really talk%29. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI take issue with the phrase %22science industry.%22 I think of %22industry%22 %0D%0A%3Eas something that produces a product - science itself produces no %0D%0A%3Eproduct save further knowledge.%0D%0A%0D%0Atrue%2C but science %5Bi%5Dhas%5B%2Fi%5D produced things like medication and atomic weapons and whatnot%2C thats why I refure to it as an %22industry%22%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EIf we look at science as a means to an %0D%0A%3Eend %28be it a cure for cancer%2C a faster computer%2C or a better %0D%0A%3Emousetrap%29%2C and stop when we hit it%2C what%27s the point%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AI guess the point would be to create thise great marvels of science so that we can live better lives.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E-- Anne%2C resident physics%2Fastro geek. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%28And yes%2C I am aware that I%27m over-romanticizing the process of %0D%0A%3Escientific discovery.%29 %0D%0A%0D%0Ayou were over-romanticizing%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Rambling postings of a %0D%0ARandom idiot.%0D%0A%0D%0AXervis
8|5|6|||1||RE%3A Blue roses don%27t exist%3F|Laudre||23:43:29|11/26/2002|%3Etrue%2C but science %5Bi%5Dhas%5B%2Fi%5D produced things like medication and %0D%0A%3Eatomic weapons and whatnot%2C thats why I refure to it as an %22industry%22 %0D%0A%0D%0AWrong.  Science didn%27t produce them.  Science did the research that made them possible to produce.%0D%0A%0D%0AScience isn%27t an industry -- it%27s a practice.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean -- %0D%0A%5Bb%5DRabid Crack Weasel %2342%5B%2Fb%5D %0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22  -- Terry Pratchett %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.drelau.com%2F%7CDrelau Productions%5D %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%2F%7CThe Broken Link%5D %0D%0A
11|6|8|||1||RE%3A Blue roses don%27t exist%3F|Xervis||15:43:59|11/27/2002|%3E%3Etrue%2C but science %5Bi%5Dhas%5B%2Fi%5D produced things like medication and %0D%0A%3E%3Eatomic weapons and whatnot%2C thats why I refure to it as an %22industry%22 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EWrong.  Science didn%27t produce them.  Science did the research that %0D%0A%3Emade them possible to produce. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EScience isn%27t an industry -- it%27s a practice. %0D%0A%0D%0Awell%2C I%27ve learned here taht you cant always trust what a science teacher tells you%28my science teacher thinks of it as a %22industry%22%2C the examples I gave where more or less qutoes from him%29. By practise%2C do you mean kinda like Law is a practise%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Rambling postings of a %0D%0ARandom idiot.%0D%0A%0D%0AXervis
12|7|11|||||RE%3A Blue roses don%27t exist%3F|goldenfire||01:43:32|11/28/2002|%3E%3E%3Etrue%2C but science %5Bi%5Dhas%5B%2Fi%5D produced things like medication and %0D%0A%3E%3E%3Eatomic weapons and whatnot%2C thats why I refure to it as an %22industry%22 %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EWrong.  Science didn%27t produce them.  Science did the research that %0D%0A%3E%3Emade them possible to produce. %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EScience isn%27t an industry -- it%27s a practice. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3Ewell%2C I%27ve learned here taht you cant always trust what a science %0D%0A%3Eteacher tells you%28my science teacher thinks of it as a %22industry%22%2C the %0D%0A%3Eexamples I gave where more or less qutoes from him%29. By practise%2C do %0D%0A%3Eyou mean kinda like Law is a practise%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AScience%2C and scientific reasearch%2C isn%27t really about the destination...it%27s about the journey.  An %22industry%22 is all about producing a product %28or service%29...whereas science%2C as a field%2C is dedicated to making new discoveries.
7|3|3|||1||RE%3A Blue roses don%27t exist%3F|sideways||19:16:47|11/26/2002|%3Edo me a favor and send me a bushle of them%2C I can woo some of the %0D%0A%3Ewomen around school with them %2Agrin%2A %0D%0A%0D%0ANo. It%27s a small bush%2C and not in the best of health. I only take roses from it when it needs trimming%2C and that%27s only in late March and early April. Also%2C you bother me.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3Emy question is%2C if there %5Bi%5Dare%5B%2Fi%5D blue roses in and around the %0D%0A%3Eworld%28I personally havent seen any%2C but I%27ll take sideways word for %0D%0A%3Eit%29%2C why the hell are they wasting money and man power trying to  %0D%0A%3E%22splice genes%22 trying to %22create%22 blue roses%3F they could be putting %0D%0A%3Ethe time and effort into something worthwhiel%2C like cancer reserch. %0D%0A%3Ejeez%2C I marvel and the stupidity of the science industry %0D%0A%3Esometimes%28though I%27ll aiming to enter as a bio-chemist or Virologest%7BI %0D%0A%3Ehope thats the name%7D so I cant really talk%29. %0D%0A%0D%0AI don%27t know whether my roses count. Now that I think on it%2C my rosebush is stunted and the flowers are small and not many. Not acceptable for the buying public. As for your question%2C humans don%27t work that way. Why aren%27t %5Bi%5Dyou%5B%2Fi%5D dropping everything to go and solve Man%27s Big Problems%3F I%27m sure the rose researchers%27 reasons overlap those at least slightly. I%27m a gadgeteer. I could design prosthetics that would revolutionize the amputee world%2C but I don%27t. It doesn%27t interest me. And if you can%27t work inspired%2C you%27re wasting your life.%5Bi%5DThat%27s%5B%2Fi%5D humanity. Don%27t make generalizations like that until you%27ve at least figured out how you yourself work.%0D%0A %0D%0ANow%2C I%27ve said my piece. I wouldn%27t bother retorting if I were you%3B you seem to have a talent for digging yourself in deeper.%0D%0A%0D%0AMike Thedford%0D%0ADark Nation%0D%0ADictator at Large
9|4|7|||||RE%3A Blue roses don%27t exist%3F|WengFook||06:58:03|11/27/2002|%3E%3Edo me a favor and send me a bushle of them%2C I can woo some of the %0D%0A%3E%3Ewomen around school with them %2Agrin%2A %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ENo. It%27s a small bush%2C and not in the best of health. I only take %0D%0A%3Eroses from it when it needs trimming%2C and that%27s only in late March %0D%0A%3Eand early April. Also%2C you bother me. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%3Emy question is%2C if there %5Bi%5Dare%5B%2Fi%5D blue roses in and around the %0D%0A%3E%3Eworld%28I personally havent seen any%2C but I%27ll take sideways word for %0D%0A%3E%3Eit%29%2C why the hell are they wasting money and man power trying to  %0D%0A%3E%3E%22splice genes%22 trying to %22create%22 blue roses%3F they could be putting %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe time and effort into something worthwhiel%2C like cancer reserch. %0D%0A%3E%3Ejeez%2C I marvel and the stupidity of the science industry %0D%0A%3E%3Esometimes%28though I%27ll aiming to enter as a bio-chemist or Virologest%7BI %0D%0A%3E%3Ehope thats the name%7D so I cant really talk%29. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI don%27t know whether my roses count. Now that I think on it%2C my %0D%0A%3Erosebush is stunted and the flowers are small and not many. Not %0D%0A%3Eacceptable for the buying public. As for your question%2C humans don%27t %0D%0A%3Ework that way. Why aren%27t %5Bi%5Dyou%5B%2Fi%5D dropping everything to go and %0D%0A%3Esolve Man%27s Big Problems%3F I%27m sure the rose researchers%27 reasons %0D%0A%3Eoverlap those at least slightly. I%27m a gadgeteer. I could design %0D%0A%3Eprosthetics that would revolutionize the amputee world%2C but I don%27t. %0D%0A%3EIt doesn%27t interest me. And if you can%27t work inspired%2C you%27re wasting %0D%0A%3Eyour life.%5Bi%5DThat%27s%5B%2Fi%5D humanity. Don%27t make generalizations like that %0D%0A%3Euntil you%27ve at least figured out how you yourself work. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ENow%2C I%27ve said my piece. I wouldn%27t bother retorting if I were you%3B %0D%0A%3Eyou seem to have a talent for digging yourself in deeper. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0AOwie... Take it easy man...%0D%0A%0D%0A
10|4|7|||1||RE%3A Blue roses don%27t exist%3F|Xervis||15:39:51|11/27/2002|%3E%3Edo me a favor and send me a bushle of them%2C I can woo some of the %0D%0A%3E%3Ewomen around school with them %2Agrin%2A %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ENo. It%27s a small bush%2C and not in the best of health. I only take %0D%0A%3Eroses from it when it needs trimming%2C and that%27s only in late March %0D%0A%3Eand early April. Also%2C you bother me. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%3Emy question is%2C if there %5Bi%5Dare%5B%2Fi%5D blue roses in and around the %0D%0A%3E%3Eworld%28I personally havent seen any%2C but I%27ll take sideways word for %0D%0A%3E%3Eit%29%2C why the hell are they wasting money and man power trying to  %0D%0A%3E%3E%22splice genes%22 trying to %22create%22 blue roses%3F they could be putting %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe time and effort into something worthwhiel%2C like cancer reserch. %0D%0A%3E%3Ejeez%2C I marvel and the stupidity of the science industry %0D%0A%3E%3Esometimes%28though I%27ll aiming to enter as a bio-chemist or Virologest%7BI %0D%0A%3E%3Ehope thats the name%7D so I cant really talk%29. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI don%27t know whether my roses count. Now that I think on it%2C my %0D%0A%3Erosebush is stunted and the flowers are small and not many. Not %0D%0A%3Eacceptable for the buying public. As for your question%2C humans don%27t %0D%0A%3Ework that way. Why aren%27t %5Bi%5Dyou%5B%2Fi%5D dropping everything to go and %0D%0A%3Esolve Man%27s Big Problems%3F I%27m sure the rose researchers%27 reasons %0D%0A%3Eoverlap those at least slightly. I%27m a gadgeteer. I could design %0D%0A%3Eprosthetics that would revolutionize the amputee world%2C but I don%27t. %0D%0A%3EIt doesn%27t interest me. And if you can%27t work inspired%2C you%27re wasting %0D%0A%3Eyour life.%5Bi%5DThat%27s%5B%2Fi%5D humanity. Don%27t make generalizations like that %0D%0A%3Euntil you%27ve at least figured out how you yourself work. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ENow%2C I%27ve said my piece. I wouldn%27t bother retorting if I were you%3B %0D%0A%3Eyou seem to have a talent for digging yourself in deeper. %0D%0A%0D%0Awell%2C at least I%27m good at something. Ok%2C all I did was express my %5Bi%5Dopinion%5B%2Fi%5D on this matter%2C which%2C last time I checked%2C was still legel in Canada. If I offended anyone%28which I%27m starting to belive that I did%29 then I%27m sorry%2C but it was just an opinion%2C nothing more. Now%2C I would %5Bb%5Dlove%5B%2Fb%5D to retort%2C I really would%2C but%2C like you said%2C I%27d just dig myself into a bigger hole.%0D%0A%0D%0Aone last thing%3B I%27m not here to annoy or piss anyone off with my posts and whatnot%2C I%27m just here to enjoy that balmy weather of Cyber Space%28beats the cold of winter anyday%29%2C and maybe make a few friends online while i%27m at it. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe Rambling postings of a %0D%0ARandom idiot.%0D%0A%0D%0AXervis
13|2|2|||||RE%3A Blue roses don%27t exist%3F|megazone||05:29:50|11/29/2002|%3EBut . . . there%27s a blue rosebush outside my %5Bi%5Dhouse%5B%2Fi%5D. It%27s in my %0D%0A%3Eyard. We have to trim it every year so it doesn%27t completely obscure %0D%0A%3EDave%27s window. I bring blue roses to the bank staff during the spring. %0D%0A%3EThey love me for it. I %5Bi%5Dknow%5B%2Fi%5D blue roses exist%21 %0D%0A%0D%0ABlue%3F  You%27d probably make a ton of money if that were true%2C no matter the condition of the plant.  It can always be cross-bred.%0D%0A%0D%0AThere are varities that are near to blue - light violets%2C etc - but no known variety that is considered to be truly blue.%0D%0A
14|3|13|||1||RE%3A Blue roses don%27t exist%3F|trigger||12:04:35|11/29/2002|%3EBlue%3F  You%27d probably make a ton of money if that were true%2C no matter %0D%0A%3Ethe condition of the plant.  It can always be cross-bred. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThere are varities that are near to blue - light violets%2C etc - but no %0D%0A%3Eknown variety that is considered to be truly blue. %0D%0A%0D%0AA well known trick is to use blue dye on white roses to come up with what I think of as %22mortuary blue%22.  I%27ve seen them a couple times and the only word to describe them is ugggglie.%0D%0A%0D%0At.%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Maccadon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Pretty ambitious for a tree%2C isn%27t it%3F%22%0D%0A%0D%0A