25||0|821|0|yes
0|0|0|||1||Gun Question|Wedge||23:24:45|02/13/2003|My father is trying to thin out his gun collection for insurance purposes%2C among other things%2C and there was a handgun that he was going to send me.  Turns out it%27s a Colt 1902 .38 ACP semi-auto%2C and some of the quick web research I%27ve done makes it look like it%27s a somewhat rare find and possibly worth more than we thought.%0D%0A%0D%0ACan anyone confirm or deny this for me%2C and possibly point me to a resource where I can do a little better research into getting it appraised%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AThanks in advance.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fstuff%2Fnall.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0AJ. Random Pixel Pusher%0D%0ADigital Domain%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DRCW %231138%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D
1|1|0|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Gryphon||08:33:05|02/14/2003|%3EMy father is trying to thin out his gun collection for insurance %0D%0A%3Epurposes%2C among other things%2C and there was a handgun that he was %0D%0A%3Egoing to send me.  Turns out it%27s a Colt 1902 .38 ACP semi-auto%2C and %0D%0A%3Esome of the quick web research I%27ve done makes it look like it%27s a %0D%0A%3Esomewhat rare find and possibly worth more than we thought. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ECan anyone confirm or deny this for me%2C and possibly point me to a %0D%0A%3Eresource where I can do a little better research into getting it %0D%0A%3Eappraised%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AI recommend http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coltautos.com%2F for general info%2C if you haven%27t found your way there already.  I was just looking there myself - do you know if it%27s a Sporting or Military model%3F  The Military model seems to have been produced in much greater numbers and for a longer time %28from 1902 through 1930%2C as opposed to the Sporting model%2C which ended production in 1912%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe guy that runs coltautos.com notes a willingness to help people with specific info and value estimates by email in the site%27s FAQ%2C if that helps any.  I don%27t have my copy of the %5Bi%5DGun Digest Book of Modern Gun Values%5B%2Fi%5D anymore%2C so I can%27t get into that.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs for appraisals in person%2C that depends entirely on the quantity and quality of gunsmiths in your area%2C which is something that I can%27t speak to%2C being not at all familiar with it... %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m lucky it%27s not a 1903 Pocket Hammerless.  If it were%2C I would be sorely tempted to make you an offer myself%2C and I %5Bi%5Dreally%5B%2Fi%5D can%27t afford to buy another gun right now. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
2|2|1|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|NeoRavenK7||09:52:25|02/14/2003|Gryph%27s right%2C man.  My girlfriend was reading over my shoulder and nearly went into orgasmic peals.  What can I say%3F  I got a survilist gun-bunny for a girlfriend.  Anywho%2C do what the man says.  Then what you do afterwards is up to you.  If I were in your shoes though I%27d probably keep it%2C clean it up if needed%2C and find a nice holster for it.  %5E_%5E%0D%0A%0D%0A-Raven%0D%0ADon%27t mind me%2C I%27m like Radical Edward in the head.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Human suffering is such a unique prviledge.%22 -Rene D%27anclaude%2C Armitage The Third.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22The hard part about playing chicken is knowing when to flinch.%22 Capt. Bart Mancusoe%2C The Hunt For Red October.
3|2|1|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Wedge||13:52:10|02/14/2003|[updated:LAST EDITED ON 02-14-03 AT 01:54 PM (EST)]%3EI recommend http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coltautos.com%2F for general info%2C if you haven%27t %0D%0A%3Efound your way there already.  I was just looking there myself - do %0D%0A%3Eyou know if it%27s a Sporting or Military model%3F  The Military model %0D%0A%3Eseems to have been produced in much greater numbers and for a longer %0D%0A%3Etime %28from 1902 through 1930%2C as opposed to the Sporting model%2C which %0D%0A%3Eended production in 1912%29. %0D%0A%0D%0AI found that last night after I posted%2C but was very confused because I couldn%27t make the serial number that I had from the gun jibe with what he had listed.  But this is because...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI%27m lucky it%27s not a 1903 Pocket Hammerless.  If it were%2C I would be %0D%0A%3Esorely tempted to make you an offer myself%2C and I %5Bi%5Dreally%5B%2Fi%5D can%27t %0D%0A%3Eafford to buy another gun right now. %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0A...it is%2C in fact%2C a 1903 Pocket -Hammer- %28so you still get to avoid temptation %3A%29.  I kept wondering why the barrels didn%27t look right on the pictures I was looking at.  It%27s an early version%2C sn%23 18208%2C made in 1905.  Here%27s some pictures I just had mom take %28de-inlined for your protection%29%3A%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fcolt%2Fcolt001.jp g%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fcolt%2Fcolt002.jp g%0D%0A%0D%0A%28edit%3A pics are a tad large%2C I was trying to get detail on the sn%23.  You are warned.%29%0D%0A%0D%0AIt could probably stand a good cleaning%2C but is otherwise in pretty decent shape.  My dad got it from a customer %7E15 years ago who was a retired cop and in the beginning of Alzheimers or something like that and wanted them out of the house.  He pretty much gave it away%2C along with his old service revolver %28which I may have to investigate next%29.  Dad%27s response last night when I told him he had a %7E100 year old gun in his hands was%2C %22Hell%2C lets sell it and buy you a Glock%21%22  I love my dad.  %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fstuff%2Fnall.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0AJ. Random Pixel Pusher%0D%0ADigital Domain%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DRCW %231138%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D
4|3|3|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Gryphon||14:00:00|02/14/2003|%3E%3EI%27m lucky it%27s not a 1903 Pocket Hammerless.  If it were%2C I would be %0D%0A%3E%3Esorely tempted to make you an offer myself%2C and I %5Bi%5Dreally%5B%2Fi%5D can%27t %0D%0A%3E%3Eafford to buy another gun right now. %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E...it is%2C in fact%2C a 1903 Pocket -Hammer- %28so you still get to avoid %0D%0A%3Etemptation %3A%29.  %0D%0A%0D%0ADamn.  Actually%2C all that means is that I%27m %5Bi%5Dless%5B%2Fi%5D tempted.  I really like the 1903 Colts.  %28I%27d especially like another .32 Pocket Hammerless%2C to make up a brace with the one I%27ve already got%2C but I like the .38 Pocket Hammer as well.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EHe pretty much gave it away%2C along %0D%0A%3Ewith his old service revolver %28which I may have to investigate next%29.  %0D%0A%0D%0AOo.  From a cop that age%2C I bet that%27s a .38 Police Positive%2C or the S%26W equivalent %28I forget their model number%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EDad%27s response last night when I told him he had a %7E100 year old gun %0D%0A%3Ein his hands was%2C %22Hell%2C lets sell it and buy you a Glock%21%22  I love my %0D%0A%3Edad.  %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0ABest of luck%3B I%27m sorely tempted%2C but one of the liberating things about actually having %5Bi%5Dno%5B%2Fi%5D money is that you can%27t even make unwise purchases... %0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
5|4|4|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Wedge||14:27:54|02/14/2003|%3E%3EHe pretty much gave it away%2C along %0D%0A%3E%3Ewith his old service revolver %28which I may have to investigate next%29.  %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EOo.  From a cop that age%2C I bet that%27s a .38 Police Positive%2C or the %0D%0A%3ES%26W equivalent %28I forget their model number%29. %0D%0A%0D%0AHe%27s pulling that one down and going to get pictures for me later today%2C so I%27ll post them here when I get them.  If I remember right%2C it%27s a little snubby looking thing%2C possibly even a holdout gun%2C but this is a hazy%2C 4 month old memory.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3EDad%27s response last night when I told him he had a %7E100 year old gun %0D%0A%3E%3Ein his hands was%2C %22Hell%2C lets sell it and buy you a Glock%21%22  I love my %0D%0A%3E%3Edad.  %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EBest of luck%3B I%27m sorely tempted%2C but one of the liberating things %0D%0A%3Eabout actually having %5Bi%5Dno%5B%2Fi%5D money is that you can%27t even make %0D%0A%3Eunwise purchases... %0D%0A%0D%0ATrue.  There is a little voice in the back of my head screaming at me for the idea of selling it%2C because it%27s always been one of my favorites in his collection.  But we%27re big on having guns we can actually use%2C so selling it to a collector and getting something I can take to the range or even out hunting %28the Glock 21C is looking awfully tempting%29 on a regular basis is more attractive.%0D%0A%0D%0ABesides%2C as much as I like it%2C I%27d rather have a 1911 of some flavor as a collectors peice%2C mundane as that may be.  %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fstuff%2Fnall.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0AJ. Random Pixel Pusher%0D%0ADigital Domain%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DRCW %231138%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D
6|5|5|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Gryphon||15:40:43|02/14/2003|%3ETrue.  There is a little voice in the back of my head screaming at me %0D%0A%3Efor the idea of selling it%2C because it%27s always been one of my %0D%0A%3Efavorites in his collection.  But we%27re big on having guns we can %0D%0A%3Eactually use%2C so selling it to a collector and getting something I can %0D%0A%3Etake to the range or even out hunting %28the Glock 21C is looking %0D%0A%3Eawfully tempting%29 on a regular basis is more attractive. %0D%0A%0D%0AIf it%27s in good condition%2C there%27s absolutely no reason why you couldn%27t take the 1903 PH to the range on a regular basis%2C or even carry it for self-defense if you were so inclined.  %28I%27m a little dubious about the defense value of any .38 automatic%2C but that%27s a discussion for a different forum.%29  I shoot my .32 Hammerless all the time%2C when I can find ammo for it %28.32 ACP isn%27t all that common around this neck of the woods%2C since you can%27t hunt deer with it%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ve never seen the point in hunting anything with anything%2C handgun hunting doubly so%2C so I can%27t speak to that end of things.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
7|6|6|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Wedge||16:15:15|02/14/2003|%3EIf it%27s in good condition%2C there%27s absolutely no reason why you %0D%0A%3Ecouldn%27t take the 1903 PH to the range on a regular basis%2C or even %0D%0A%3Ecarry it for self-defense if you were so inclined.  %28I%27m a little %0D%0A%3Edubious about the defense value of any .38 automatic%2C but that%27s a %0D%0A%3Ediscussion for a different forum.%29  I shoot my .32 Hammerless all the %0D%0A%3Etime%2C when I can find ammo for it %28.32 ACP isn%27t all that common %0D%0A%3Earound this neck of the woods%2C since you can%27t hunt deer with it%29. %0D%0A%0D%0AI had read that .38 ACP was a discontinued round%2C so I was unsure of general availability.  Plus I%27m probably sharing my father%27s New %26 Shiny syndrome.  %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI%27ve never seen the point in hunting anything with anything%2C handgun %0D%0A%3Ehunting doubly so%2C so I can%27t speak to that end of things. %0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s not really a primary hunting weapon%2C but there%27s an abundance of wild hog where we hunt and there are situations where it would be handy for that.  Generally it falls under the same guidelines for defense%3B all things being equal you don%27t want to shoot more than once.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fstuff%2Fnall.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0AJ. Random Pixel Pusher%0D%0ADigital Domain%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DRCW %231138%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D
8|7|7|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Gryphon||16:18:40|02/14/2003|%3EI had read that .38 ACP was a discontinued round%2C so I was unsure of %0D%0A%3Egeneral availability.  Plus I%27m probably sharing my father%27s New %26 %0D%0A%3EShiny syndrome.  %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0ANot so%21  It%27s just been renamed %22.380 ACP%22 for no apparent reason.  %28It%27s also known as 9mm Browning Short.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A.380 is as common as hydrogen in most ammo shops.  Every dinky defense gun made for the US market seems to be chambered in it.  %28In Europe they still use 7.62mm Browning%2C aka .32 ACP%2C quite a bit.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
11|8|8|||||RE%3A Gun Question|pfloyd||17:55:44|02/14/2003|%3E%3EI had read that .38 ACP was a discontinued round%2C so I was unsure of %0D%0A%3E%3Egeneral availability.  Plus I%27m probably sharing my father%27s New %26 %0D%0A%3E%3EShiny syndrome.  %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ENot so%21  It%27s just been renamed %22.380 ACP%22 for no apparent reason.  %0D%0A%3E%28It%27s also known as 9mm Browning Short.%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E.380 is as common as hydrogen in most ammo shops.  Every dinky defense %0D%0A%3Egun made for the US market seems to be chambered in it.  %28In Europe %0D%0A%3Ethey still use 7.62mm Browning%2C aka .32 ACP%2C quite a bit.%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AThat%27s as may be%2C but you still can%27t get the two Glock models chambered for 380 in this country...%0D%0A%0D%0AG%2C isn%27t 32ACP actually 7.65mm%3F 7.62 is more like .30%2C I believe... just what I%27d want to feed the 96 Mauser I%27d love to own someday...%0D%0A%0D%0A-- pf%0D%0A
13|9|11|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Gryphon||19:24:01|02/14/2003|%3EG%2C isn%27t 32ACP actually 7.65mm%3F 7.62 is more like .30%2C I believe... %0D%0A%0D%0AYou%27re right%2C sorry about that.  7.65mm Kurz %3D .32 ACP%3B 7.62mm Kurz %3D .30 Luger.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
10|5|5|||||RE%3A Gun Question|pfloyd||17:49:51|02/14/2003|%3E%3E%3EDad%27s response last night when I told him he had a %7E100 year old gun %0D%0A%3E%3E%3Ein his hands was%2C %22Hell%2C lets sell it and buy you a Glock%21%22  I love my %0D%0A%3E%3E%3Edad.  %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AHeh... Glock%27s a good choice. Sturdy%2C easy to strip and clean%2C and comes in a variety of flavors. Tough as hell%2C too. Though lately I%27ve been thinking on trading my 23 in for a 19. As of late%2C with me losing over a hundred pounds in 5-6 years and a fair amount of upper body mass and strength%2C 40 S%26W has become a bit stout for me. I%27m thinking that 9mm is the way to go for me right now%2C and I can still get Federal Hydra-Shoks as carry ammo.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ETrue.  There is a little voice in the back of my head screaming at me %0D%0A%3Efor the idea of selling it%2C because it%27s always been one of my %0D%0A%3Efavorites in his collection.  But we%27re big on having guns we can %0D%0A%3Eactually use%2C so selling it to a collector and getting something I can %0D%0A%3Etake to the range or even out hunting %28the Glock 21C is looking %0D%0A%3Eawfully tempting%29 on a regular basis is more attractive. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ve fired the 21%2C and have found it to be a delight to shoot. I did my best shooting with a rented 21... at 50ft%2C I was putting everything in the 10 and X rings%3B at probably twice that distance%2C nothing went outside the 9 ring. Fine piece. I%27d consider getting one for a 45 piece%2C since the USP45 that I%27d like to get costs a wee bit more than a Glock.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- pf%0D%0A
12|6|10|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Wedge||18:01:09|02/14/2003|%3E%3Etake to the range or even out hunting %28the Glock 21C is looking %0D%0A%3E%3Eawfully tempting%29 on a regular basis is more attractive. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI%27ve fired the 21%2C and have found it to be a delight to shoot. I did %0D%0A%3Emy best shooting with a rented 21... at 50ft%2C I was putting everything %0D%0A%3Ein the 10 and X rings%3B at probably twice that distance%2C nothing went %0D%0A%3Eoutside the 9 ring. Fine piece.%0D%0A%0D%0AI had almost the same experience%2C except that I started with a rented .45 Desert Eagle %28he had a .50%2C but I chickened out %3A%29 and then proceeded to work through every .45 the guy had as they all jammed or fell apart in my hands %28rental guns...eeegh%29.  That is until he brought in the Glock.  It went through the rest of the rounds I bought without a hitch.  .45 in general was just almost too much gun for me%2C but the Glock was so smooth that I think if I went for the compensated version %28the 21C%29 I wouldn%27t have any problem with it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fstuff%2Fnall.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0AJ. Random Pixel Pusher%0D%0ADigital Domain%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DRCW %231138%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D
14|7|12|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Gryphon||19:28:23|02/14/2003|%3EI had almost the same experience%2C except that I started with a rented %0D%0A%3E.45 Desert Eagle %28he had a .50%2C but I chickened out %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AITYM %22.44%22%2C or possibly you mean the smaller but Desert-Eagle-like pistol that same company makes %28I forget what it%27s called%3B Spike has one in %5Bi%5DCowboy Bebop%5B%2Fi%5D%29.  Unless I%27m having a serious mental lookup failure%2C there isn%27t a .45 model of the Eagle.%0D%0A%0D%0AFWIW%2C I%27ve seen the .50 AE model in action%2C and it%27s really quite pointless.  It%27s a gimmick and little more%2C for those twitchy types who think .44 Magnum is %5Bi%5Djust too darn small%5B%2Fi%5D.%0D%0A%0D%0AFor myself%2C I%27ve always wanted to try a .357 model.  I like .357 as a revolver cartridge and have often thought that a nice big automatic chambered for it would be a well-mannered weapon.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
16|8|14|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Wedge||19:58:09|02/14/2003|%3E%3EI had almost the same experience%2C except that I started with a rented %0D%0A%3E%3E.45 Desert Eagle %28he had a .50%2C but I chickened out %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EITYM %22.44%22%2C or possibly you mean the smaller but Desert-Eagle-like %0D%0A%3Epistol that same company makes %28I forget what it%27s called%3B Spike has %0D%0A%3Eone in %5Bi%5DCowboy Bebop%5B%2Fi%5D%29.  Unless I%27m having a serious mental %0D%0A%3Elookup failure%2C there isn%27t a .45 model of the Eagle. %0D%0A%0D%0AIt must have been the Baby Eagle%2C looking at their website.  The guy at the range never made the distinction.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EFWIW%2C I%27ve seen the .50 AE model in action%2C and it%27s really quite %0D%0A%3Epointless.  It%27s a gimmick and little more%2C for those twitchy types %0D%0A%3Ewho think .44 Magnum is %5Bi%5Djust too darn small%5B%2Fi%5D. %0D%0A%0D%0AI agree.  I saw a story yesterday on the new %5Blink%3Awww.smith-wesson.com%2Fproducts%2Ffirearms%2Fm500.htm%7CS%26W .50 revolver%5D.  Gah.  Talk about overcompensation...%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.smith-wesson.com%2Fproducts%2Ffirearms%2Fimages%2F163500_med.jpg%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fstuff%2Fnall.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0AJ. Random Pixel Pusher%0D%0ADigital Domain%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DRCW %231138%5B%2Ffont%5D%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22...well do ya%2C punk%3F%22%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D
17|9|16|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|NeoRavenK7||01:29:43|02/16/2003|%2ALooks at pic of .50 revolver%2A  Yech%21  Like someone trying to act like Dirty Harry and failing miserably%21%0D%0A%0D%0AAnyhow%2C got a gun question of my own.  I%27ve been thinking of procuring a handgun sometime in the future for self defence and I wonder what would be best for me.  I%27m about 5%279%22 and weigh %7E140lbs with a %2Avery%2A light build.  Body count is not an issue%3B I wouldn%27t want to have to kill a person unless they left me with no choice.  Style-points do count however.  I think the WWII standard issue Luger %28not sure of exact model%29 is a particularily wonderful weapon despite the people who weilded them in that time.%0D%0A%0D%0A-Raven%0D%0ADon%27t mind me%2C I%27m like Radical Edward in the head.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Human suffering is such a unique prviledge.%22 -Rene D%27anclaude%2C Armitage The Third.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22The hard part about playing chicken is knowing when to flinch.%22 Capt. Bart Mancusoe%2C The Hunt For Red October.
18|10|17|||||RE%3A Gun Question|pfloyd||10:14:03|02/16/2003|%3E%2ALooks at pic of .50 revolver%2A  Yech%21  Like someone trying to act like %0D%0A%3EDirty Harry and failing miserably%21 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AAgreed. Overkill. Who really needs a .50 AE or .500 Bowen to put someone down%3F You could do it with a couple of .22 LRs. It%27s all location location location.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAnyhow%2C got a gun question of my own.  I%27ve been thinking of procuring %0D%0A%3Ea handgun sometime in the future for self defence and I wonder what %0D%0A%3Ewould be best for me.  I%27m about 5%279%22 and weigh %7E140lbs with a %2Avery%2A %0D%0A%3Elight build.  Body count is not an issue%3B I wouldn%27t want to have to %0D%0A%3Ekill a person unless they left me with no choice.  Style-points do %0D%0A%3Ecount however.  I think the WWII standard issue Luger %28not sure of %0D%0A%3Eexact model%29 is a particularily wonderful weapon despite the people %0D%0A%3Ewho weilded them in that time. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0ARight...%0D%0AThe P.08 Luger in 9mm Parabellum %28aka 9mm Luger%29 is a very nice weapon%2C but was very prone to fouling%2C and needed quite a bit of care. %28Side note%3A The US military almost adopted a .45ACP Luger as its standard sidearm. There are still two of these in existance today.%29%0D%0AWhat specifically are you looking for in a handgun%3F Is size a consideration%3F Caliber%3F Have you tried anything out at a local range%2C if available%3F %0D%0AOff the bat%2C I would suggest looking at something on the light side%2C perhaps 9mm. If you want to carry concealed %28if your local police allow it%29%2C I would look at the Glock 19%2C or even the 27. You can pack 10 rounds per magazine%2C and the 5.5-lb pull on the trigger is pretty good. Glocks are also easy to strip and clean%2C and are as rugged as hell. As for quality handguns%2C they%27re also on the less expensive side.%0D%0AOther than that%2C I would consider talking to people at your local gun shop. They shouldn%27t steer you wrong%2C unless they%27re trying to make a lot of money off of you for something you don%27t really need or can%27t handle.%0D%0AOnce you get your piece though%2C I would practice practice practice. Oh%2C and let us know what you got%2C too.%0D%0A%0D%0ABit long%2C I know... but I thought it would be some good advice. YMMV%2C of course.%0D%0AOh%2C once you get your weapon%2C I%27ll advise on some good carry and practice ammunition.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- pf%0D%0A
19|11|18|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|NeoRavenK7||12:28:59|02/18/2003|Thanks%2C Pfloyd%2C I%27m going to take all your advice into consideration when looking.  As for what I would like in a gun%2C nothing special in particular%2C but as I said earlier%2C stylepoints do count.  The way I feel is if you%27re going to have a good sidearm it might as well look nice too.%0D%0A%0D%0AAside from that%2C the qualities of the Luger are pretty much what I would like in a weapon.  The Glocks sound nice%2C but I%27ve only read about them and have never seen any pictures of them.  Sorry if I sound a bit vain here.%0D%0A%0D%0AAlso%2C what kind of price range are we talking about here%3F  I know a good sidearm is not cheap%2C but I would like to know so I%27ll know whether or not I%27m being swindled.%0D%0A%0D%0A-Raven%0D%0ADon%27t mind me%2C I%27m like Radical Edward in the head.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Human suffering is such a unique prviledge.%22 -Rene D%27anclaude%2C Armitage The Third.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22The hard part about playing chicken is knowing when to flinch.%22 Capt. Bart Mancusoe%2C The Hunt For Red October.
20|12|19|||||RE%3A Gun Question|pfloyd||17:23:32|02/18/2003|%3EThanks%2C Pfloyd%2C I%27m going to take all your advice into consideration %0D%0A%3Ewhen looking.  As for what I would like in a gun%2C nothing special in %0D%0A%3Eparticular%2C but as I said earlier%2C stylepoints do count.  The way I %0D%0A%3Efeel is if you%27re going to have a good sidearm it might as well look %0D%0A%3Enice too. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AHmm... guess we have two different viewpoints on this. To me%2C style is a bit further down the list when compared to reliability%2C comfort%2C ease of stripping%2Fcleaning%2C and inherent accuracy%2C not to mention the caliber%27s ability to stop someone with as few shots as possible. Sure%2C a gleaming new Walther PPK%2FS may look prettier than that Colt M1911A1 .45 ACP that%27s a bit on the worn side%2C but that .45ACP round will knock someone down a lot better than that .380 or .32ACP round. %2Ashrug%2A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAside from that%2C the qualities of the Luger are pretty much what I %0D%0A%3Ewould like in a weapon.  The Glocks sound nice%2C but I%27ve only read %0D%0A%3Eabout them and have never seen any pictures of them.  Sorry if I sound %0D%0A%3Ea bit vain here. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AYou haven%27t seen a Glock%3F I%27m very surprised%2C since they%27ve been around since the mid-80%27s. You may think they look a little chunky and clunky%2C but when it comes right down to it%2C they%27re reliable and durable as hell.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAlso%2C what kind of price range are we talking about here%3F  I know a %0D%0A%3Egood sidearm is not cheap%2C but I would like to know so I%27ll know %0D%0A%3Ewhether or not I%27m being swindled. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AI bought my Glock 23 around five years ago for under %24600 new. You can most likely find a used one for well under that. SIGs and H%26Ks will run upwards of %24800 new%2C probably.%0D%0A%0D%0ABest bet would be to do some research on your part before hitting the gun shop. Head for the local bookstore %28especially a Borders or Barnes and Noble where there%27s a cafe%29 with a notebook%2C and look at some gun books%2C especially Gun Digest%2C that are up to date. That book gives some prices that may be a good rule of thumb. I%27ve found that gun stores will probably sell something at that price at the most. Also%2C look at some gun magazine annual issues. Some of them have similar lists in the back of the mag. %0D%0A%0D%0AMost of my research has been hands-on. My city has a rental range %28no permit needed to rent one of their pieces%29 where one can go and try a certain model. I find that actually handling the pistol is the best way. You don%27t want to do book research%2C handle a piece in the store for maybe a minute or two%2C buy it%2C get it to the range%2C and %5Bi%5Dthen%5B%2Fi%5D discover that the round is a bit on the stout side for you to handle.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs I said before%2C YMMV when it comes to a particular firearm. I like Glocks%2C SIGs and H%26Ks. Others would say that they%27re crap%2C and expound on S%26Ws or Beretta. To each their own.%0D%0A%0D%0AFeel free to email me off-board if you want%2Fneed some more advice.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- pf%0D%0A
22|6|10|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Laudre||00:50:52|02/19/2003|%3E%3E%3E%3EDad%27s response last night when I told him he had a %7E100 year old gun %0D%0A%3E%3E%3E%3Ein his hands was%2C %22Hell%2C lets sell it and buy you a Glock%21%22  I love my %0D%0A%3E%3E%3E%3Edad.  %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EHeh... Glock%27s a good choice. Sturdy%2C easy to strip and clean%2C and %0D%0A%3Ecomes in a variety of flavors. Tough as hell%2C too.%0D%0A%0D%0AI beg to differ.%0D%0A%0D%0AI haven%27t put rounds through a Glock myself%2C mind%2C so I don%27t know how it actually shoots from first-person experience%2C but after handling several%2C I have precisely zero inclination to do so.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe grips are unnecessarily large%2C so that the guns don%27t feel secure in my hand.  %28My hands aren%27t terribly small%2C either.%29  Not as bad as a Desert Eagle%2C but still not good.  The grip angle is at 27 degrees%2C rather than the 11-degree grip angle that just about every other service pistol in the known universe has %28the only exception I can think of is the Luger P.08%29 -- that severe grip angle is only used in .22LR pistols that I%27ve seen.  SIGs%2C 1911s%2C Berettas%2C etc. all have an 11-degree grip angle.%0D%0A%0D%0AErgonomics %28and the lack thereof%29 aside%2C Glocks in any caliber larger than 9mm %28.40 S%26W%2C .45 ACP%2C 10mm%29 are notorious for exploding%2C due to a design flaw in factory barrels that leaves a critical part of the shell casing unsupported.  And since the Glock is a polymer-framed pistol rather than actual steel%2C a kB will likely completely destroy the gun %28as opposed%2C to%2C say%2C my Hi-Power%2C which if it kB%27d%2C would probably just destroy my grips and the magazine%29%2C blowing out part of the frame and large chunks out of the slide%2C rendering it at best unsafe to fire%2C and at worst useless.%0D%0A%0D%0AFinally%2C Glocks are DAO striker guns that leave the striker pin in a continual state of half-cock.  And%2C while I have not heard of this actually happening%2C from an engineering standpoint%2C it%27s possible for the striker pin to fall from the half-cock position hard enough to discharge the pistol.  So what you%27ve got is a gun that is not only not so much in Condition 2 but actually in Condition 0%2C and not even safely at that.%0D%0A%0D%0AThere are a lot of people who are quite happy with their Glocks.  But%2C frankly%2C I don%27t trust a Glock nearly as much as I trust my Hi-Power.  And I%27d trust that Colt in .380 more than a Glock%2C though .380 isn%27t much of a manstopper.  At least%2C you%27ve got either a good collector%27s item%2C a good pocket pistol%2C or both.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean -- %0D%0A%5Bb%5DRabid Crack Weasel %2342%5B%2Fb%5D %0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22  -- Terry Pratchett %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.drelau.com%2F%7CDrelau Productions%5D %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.thebrokenlink.org%2F%7CThe Broken Link%5D %0D%0A
24|7|22|||||RE%3A Gun Question|pfloyd||08:51:11|02/19/2003|%3E%3E%3E%3E%3EDad%27s response last night when I told him he had a %7E100 year old gun %0D%0A%3E%3E%3E%3E%3Ein his hands was%2C %22Hell%2C lets sell it and buy you a Glock%21%22  I love my %0D%0A%3E%3E%3E%3E%3Edad.  %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EHeh... Glock%27s a good choice. Sturdy%2C easy to strip and clean%2C and %0D%0A%3E%3Ecomes in a variety of flavors. Tough as hell%2C too.%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI beg to differ. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI haven%27t put rounds through a Glock myself%2C mind%2C so I don%27t know how %0D%0A%3Eit actually shoots from first-person experience%2C but after handling %0D%0A%3Eseveral%2C I have precisely zero inclination to do so. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AAs I had said before%2C to each their own.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThe grips are unnecessarily large%2C so that the guns don%27t feel secure %0D%0A%3Ein my hand.  %28My hands aren%27t terribly small%2C either.%29  Not as bad as %0D%0A%3Ea Desert Eagle%2C but still not good.  The grip angle is at 27 degrees%2C %0D%0A%3Erather than the 11-degree grip angle that just about every other %0D%0A%3Eservice pistol in the known universe has %28the only exception I can %0D%0A%3Ethink of is the Luger P.08%29 -- that severe grip angle is only used in %0D%0A%3E.22LR pistols that I%27ve seen.  SIGs%2C 1911s%2C Berettas%2C etc. all have an %0D%0A%3E11-degree grip angle. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AI believe they were designed as such so it would be more of a natural feel when shooting. I haven%27t noticed a difference%2C really. %28How do you measure grip angle in the first place%3F Angle of the frontstrap or middle of the grip as compared with the barrel%3F%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EErgonomics %28and the lack thereof%29 aside%2C Glocks in any caliber larger %0D%0A%3Ethan 9mm %28.40 S%26W%2C .45 ACP%2C 10mm%29 are notorious for exploding%2C due to %0D%0A%3Ea design flaw in factory barrels that leaves a critical part of the %0D%0A%3Eshell casing unsupported.  And since the Glock is a polymer-framed %0D%0A%3Epistol rather than actual steel%2C a kB will likely completely destroy %0D%0A%3Ethe gun %28as opposed%2C to%2C say%2C my Hi-Power%2C which if it kB%27d%2C would %0D%0A%3Eprobably just destroy my grips and the magazine%29%2C blowing out part of %0D%0A%3Ethe frame and large chunks out of the slide%2C rendering it at best %0D%0A%3Eunsafe to fire%2C and at worst useless. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AWhile there have been a few kBs in Glocks%2C the majority of them have come from non-factory reloads%2C especially with the heavier 180-grain 40S%26W rounds. %28I haven%27t heard of a kB from a 10mm or .45 as of yet.%29 With the larger round%2C there%27s less space inside the casing for the expanding gases to expand properly. Pressure builds up too quickly%2C and the case will burst. That%27s why I use lighter and smaller 165-grain rounds%2C where the chances of kB are reduced significantly.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EFinally%2C Glocks are DAO striker guns that leave the striker pin in a %0D%0A%3Econtinual state of half-cock.  And%2C while I have not heard of this %0D%0A%3Eactually happening%2C from an engineering standpoint%2C it%27s possible for %0D%0A%3Ethe striker pin to fall from the half-cock position hard enough to %0D%0A%3Edischarge the pistol.  So what you%27ve got is a gun that is not only %0D%0A%3Enot so much in Condition 2 but actually in Condition 0%2C and not even %0D%0A%3Esafely at that. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AGlocks aren%27t truly DAO%3B it%27s considered a safe action%2C at least according to what Glock calls it. That firing pin is actually very safe%3B it won%27t move unless the trigger is pulled%2C and that trigger can%27t be pulled unless that little safety lever is pulled straight back with the trigger itself. %28I%27ve tested this by trying to pull the trigger without moving the lever%2C twisting my finger while pulling the trigger -- that bugger won%27t budge.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThere are a lot of people who are quite happy with their Glocks.  But%2C %0D%0A%3Efrankly%2C I don%27t trust a Glock nearly as much as I trust my Hi-Power.  %0D%0A%3EAnd I%27d trust that Colt in .380 more than a Glock%2C though .380 isn%27t %0D%0A%3Emuch of a manstopper.  At least%2C you%27ve got either a good collector%27s %0D%0A%3Eitem%2C a good pocket pistol%2C or both. %0D%0A%0D%0AAgain%2C as I had said%2C YMMV when it comes to whatever firearm you choose. %0D%0A%0D%0A-- pf
25|7|22|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Gryphon||09:17:37|02/19/2003|%3EI haven%27t put rounds through a Glock myself%2C mind%2C so I don%27t know how %0D%0A%3Eit actually shoots from first-person experience%2C but after handling %0D%0A%3Eseveral%2C I have precisely zero inclination to do so. %0D%0A%0D%0AI like Zoner%27s 21 as far as handling goes%2C but if it were any uglier it would be my ass.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAnd since the Glock is a polymer-framed %0D%0A%3Epistol rather than actual steel%2C a kB will likely completely destroy %0D%0A%3Ethe gun %28as opposed%2C to%2C say%2C my Hi-Power%2C which if it kB%27d%2C would %0D%0A%3Eprobably just destroy my grips and the magazine%29%2C%0D%0A%0D%0A... and%2C uh%2C your %5Bi%5Dhand%5B%2Fi%5D... %0D%0A%0D%0AThis is all edging perilously close to a religious war%2C so I%27m gonna have to ask for this subthread to be canned.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
9|4|4|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Wedge||17:31:28|02/14/2003|%3E%3EHe pretty much gave it away%2C along %0D%0A%3E%3Ewith his old service revolver %28which I may have to investigate next%29.  %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EOo.  From a cop that age%2C I bet that%27s a .38 Police Positive%2C or the %0D%0A%3ES%26W equivalent %28I forget their model number%29. %0D%0A%0D%0AColt Official Police .38 Special%2C sn%23 541880 %28have to see if I can find sn%23 history for these.  I think that places it in the early 40%27s%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AHere%27s the pics%3A%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fcolt%2Fcolt2001.jp g%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fcolt%2Fcolt2001.jp g%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fstuff%2Fnall.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0AJ. Random Pixel Pusher%0D%0ADigital Domain%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DRCW %231138%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D
15|5|9|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Gryphon||19:29:06|02/14/2003|%3EColt Official Police .38 Special%2C sn%23 541880 %28have to see if I can %0D%0A%3Efind sn%23 history for these.  I think that places it in the early %0D%0A%3E40%27s%29. %0D%0A%0D%0Aaw%21  I want it%21%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A%2Asnif%2A%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
21|5|9|||1||RE%3A Gun Question|Matrix Dragon||22:00:49|02/18/2003|Aw%2C it%27s so cute%21 %28Notices everyone looking at him%29 What%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AShame Australians can have guns like that anymore%2C or I may be tempted to get one.%0D%0A%0D%0AMatrix Dragon%2C J. Random Nutter%0D%0A%5Ba href%3D%22http%3A%2F%2Fwww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Fmatrix_dragon%2F%22%5DMy LiveJournal%5B%2Fa%5D%0D%0ASemi gun nut
23|6|21|||||RE%3A Gun Question|Rod_H||06:22:49|02/19/2003|[updated:LAST EDITED ON 02-19-03 AT 06:42 AM (EST)]%3EAw%2C it%27s so cute%21 %28Notices everyone looking at him%29 What%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AAh-huh%2C MD%27s just about copied a Skuld%27s reaction to a Spengler flux emiting Airwolf.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EShame Australians can have guns like that anymore%2C or I may be tempted %0D%0A%3Eto get one. %0D%0A%0D%0AOn that I think it%27s a bit touch and go%2C MD%2C cause with our odd outlaw MC clubs%2C Triad%2FTongs up Sydney-way and the -licenced- mentally ill %28and a foreign national%29 going postal%2C it hasn%27t helped. %0D%0AOf cause these guns have always been restricted items here. %0D%0AIf I had the right licence and the money I%27d be interested in the Pocket Hammer. Mind you I wouldn%27t mind a Lee-Enfield .303 %26 a Luger too.%0D%0A%0D%0A--Rod.H%0D%0A%22%5Bi%5D.50 DE...feh%2C if I wanted to use .50 cal it%27ll be in a M-82%5B%2Fi%5D%22