22||0|2568|0|yes
0|0|0|||1||Just when I think...|Gryphon||14:16:29|08/08/2006|... that Geoff Johns can%27t possibly surprise me any more%2C %5Blink%3Aforum.newsarama.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D79802%7Che does.%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ANow%2C if only I meant that in any kind of positive sense.%0D%0A%0D%0AJesus H. Delano Roosevelt Christ.  There%27s so much stupid shit in there I can%27t even begin to analyze how it all sucks.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Admin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
1|1|0|||||RE%3A Just when I think...|mdg1||17:38:42|08/08/2006|You know%2C I remember when creator interviews actually included some information%2C as opposed to useless teases.  %0D%0A%0D%0A%22I can%27t tell you the name of a new character%21  That would ruin the surprise%21%22%0D%0A%0D%0AGiven that this is Johns%2C anyone care to bet that all these mysetery characters WON%27T be revealed in last-page splash panels%3F
2|1|0|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|StaticdashPulse||22:01:38|08/08/2006|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-11 AT 03:09 PM (EST)]I got as far as %22Cassie Cain%3F  Yes%21%22 and just had to stop.  If there%27s anyone who should not be given the reigns of someone as complex and alien as Cassandra%2C it%27s someone who fans regard as a %22working class%22 writer who treats superheroes like their 9-to-5 shmoes.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut you know%2C right now%2C I don%27t care.  The idiot fans who read this drivel deserve what they fucking get.  There%27s %5Bb%5Dtons%5B%2Fb%5D of fiction out there that does explore the adventurous%2C the eccentric%2C and the fantastic.  If fans want the Justice League of NASCAR%2C they can have it.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m going to read a real book%2C by a real science fiction writer.  If I wanted wrestling%2C I wouldn%27t be changing the television channel right now.
3|2|2|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|Gryphon||22:13:36|08/08/2006|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-06 AT 10:15 PM (EDT)]%3EI got as far as %22Cassie Cain%3F  Yes%21%22 and just had to stop.%0D%0A%0D%0A... and it gets so much worse after that part%2C too.  I mean%2C hell%2C that%27s right at the top of the article. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0AAdmittedly%2C I may not be qualified to speak on this matter%2C since by the standards you%27ve expressed in other writings of your own%2C I don%27t get Cassie right either.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Admin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
4|3|3|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|Matrix Dragon||22:31:05|08/08/2006|%3E%3EI got as far as %22Cassie Cain%3F  Yes%21%22 and just had to stop.%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E... and it gets so much worse after that part%2C too.  I mean%2C hell%2C %0D%0A%3Ethat%27s right at the top of the article. %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAdmittedly%2C I may not be qualified to speak on this matter%2C since by %0D%0A%3Ethe standards you%27ve expressed in other writings of your own%2C I don%27t %0D%0A%3Eget Cassie right either. %0D%0A%0D%0AYou didn%27t turn her into a batshit insane killing machine that is taking over the league of assasains. You%27re much more qualified then anyone at DC these days.%0D%0A%0D%0AMatrix Dragon
6|4|4|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|Gryphon||22:35:49|08/08/2006|%3E%3EAdmittedly%2C I may not be qualified to speak on this matter%2C since by %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe standards you%27ve expressed in other writings of your own%2C I don%27t %0D%0A%3E%3Eget Cassie right either. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYou didn%27t turn her into a batshit insane killing machine that is %0D%0A%3Etaking over the league of assasains.%0D%0A%0D%0AThis is so%2C yes.  I might%2C if writing her in an official capacity%2C have %5Bi%5Dpretended%5B%2Fi%5D to do that for an issue or so%2C but actually %5Bi%5Ddo%5B%2Fi%5D it%3F  No.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EYou%27re much more qualified then anyone at DC these days. %0D%0A%0D%0AAw%2C you%27re sweet.  I wasn%27t fishing for that%2C but thank you%21%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A%28spot the quote%29%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Admin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
13|5|6|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|sideways||23:39:55|08/08/2006|%3EAw%2C you%27re sweet.  I wasn%27t fishing for that%2C but thank you%21 %0D%0A%0D%0ADamn you%2C Patience.%0D%0A%0D%0AMike Thedford%0D%0ACollege Town%0D%0AShopkeep at Large
14|5|6|||||RE%3A Just when I think...|BZArcher||23:46:29|08/08/2006|Any last words before I spark it%3F
5|3|3|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|StaticdashPulse||22:34:51|08/08/2006|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-11 AT 03:10 PM (EST)]Well%2C heck%2C I%27ll be the first to admit I %5Bi%5Ddon%27t get%5B%2Fi%5D Cass%2C I have an aspect of her that I like to explore and goose along%2C but given that she%27s a fictional%2C gestalt character I don%27t think there%27s any one way to %22get%22 her.  That said...%0D%0A%0D%0ABased on the way you handle her in the UF-verse%2C you get her a lot better than I imagine Johns will.  You follow the set standards of how she works nicely%2C without treating it like a disability.  Given the way Johns gave the Android Hourman the bums rush%2C ditched the Black Canary%2FDoctor Mid-Nite relationship as quickly as possible%2C and turned Impulse into Wally West 2.0 %28complete with loss of power angst%29%2C I%27d put money on him writing Cass as a socially awkward person who makes a fool of herself more often than not.%0D%0A%0D%0AJohns has this talent for stripping all the wonderful eccentricities of characters out%2C and turning them into either bitter old men or good little children.  At least your Cass didn%27t lose who she was %28%22I lose more Batplanes that way.%22 is much more Cass than Johns could ever grok%29 for the sake of pleasing people who are still bitter that Barbara Gordon isn%27t still Batgirl.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27d wager money that within one arc%2C Cass will be turned into an apologetic warrior who%27s ashamed of her talents.  And within three arcs%2C she%27ll either be off the team or sleeping with one of the members -- and %22you won%27t believe how great she in in bed%22 will be brought up.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Get%22 is a subjective term%2C I just don%27t want to be subjected to how Johns %22gets%22 her. %3A%29
7|4|5|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|Gryphon||22:45:47|08/08/2006|%3Editched the Black %0D%0A%3ECanary%2FDoctor Mid-Nite relationship as quickly as possible%0D%0A%0D%0AAs much as I hate to play devil%27s advocate%2C this was probably%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AA%29 driven by external forces %28namely the return of Ollie Queen%29%3B and%0D%0AB%29 for the best%2C since Ollie and Dinah are one of the best couples in comics when they%27re handled right.%0D%0A%0D%0A... and by %22right%22 I mean %22the way Kevin Smith handled them%2C%22 not %22the way Judd Winick screwed them the fuck up.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI%27d %0D%0A%3Eput money on him writing Cass as a socially awkward person who makes a %0D%0A%3Efool of herself more often than not. %0D%0A%0D%0AYeah%2C I wouldn%27t take that bet.  Mind you%2C she %5Bi%5Dis%5B%2Fi%5D%2C if not socially awkward%2C at least not socially %5Bi%5Dclever%5B%2Fi%5D.  I wouldn%27t expect her to use the wrong fork at a dinner party or comically misapprehend some situation like%2C say%2C Starfire might%2C but I would expect her to cause uncomfortable silences in high-social-fiction circumstances just through her complete lack of pretense and intolerance of veneer and bullshit.  That doesn%27t make a fool of her%2C though%3B if anything%2C it makes a fool of those around her.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAt least your Cass didn%27t lose who she was %28%22I lose %0D%0A%3Emore Batplanes that way.%22 is much more Cass than Johns could ever %0D%0A%3Egrok%29%0D%0A%0D%0AHeh.  I think my favorite line in that sequence%2C in terms of characterization%2C is %22... little help here%3F%22  That whole scene is one of my top ten %22gee%2C I%27d like to see this animated%22 moments.  I %5Bi%5Dam%5B%2Fi%5D rather proud of the way it captures her confidence - in her abilities and those of her teammates - and the way she never hesitates.  If there%27s one quality I think defines Cass %28beyond her pseudo-extrasensory ability%2C which is the part where I don%27t think my interpretation quite lines up with yours%29%2C it%27s the fact that she somehow manages to be completely without hesitation %5Bi%5Dand%5B%2Fi%5D almost completely without rashness at the same time.  %0D%0A%0D%0A%3Eand %22you won%27t believe how great she in in bed%22 will be %0D%0A%3Ebrought up. %0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C to be fair%2C she probably would be%2C with a bit of practice.  I mean%2C it%27s a logical assumption.%0D%0A%0D%0A... What%3F  Of course I consider these things.  It%27s part of my job.  Quit looking at me like that.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Admin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
8|5|7|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|StaticdashPulse||22:58:51|08/08/2006|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-11 AT 03:10 PM (EST)]%3EI wouldn%27t expect her to use the wrong fork at a dinner party or comically %0D%0A%3Emisapprehend some situation like%2C say%2C Starfire might%2C but I would expect her %0D%0A%3Eto cause uncomfortable silences in high-social-fiction circumstances just %0D%0A%3Ethrough her complete lack of pretense and intolerance of veneer and bullshit.%0D%0A%0D%0AOh%2C right%2C but I do expect him to write her as Starfire.  It may not be a fork they chuckle over%2C but my bet is that more Starfire-ish scenes get written than uncomfortable silences.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%28beyond her pseudo-extrasensory ability%2C which is the part where I don%27t think %0D%0A%3Emy interpretation quite lines up with yours%29%0D%0A%0D%0AYeah%2C but I%27m weird about that kind of stuff.  I%27d be more concerned for you if our views on that did line up. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E... What%3F  Of course I consider these things.  It%27s part of my job.  %0D%0A%3EQuit looking at me like that. %0D%0A%0D%0AWell sure%2C but actually writing the story where she feels ostracized from the team because the guys keep looking at her oddly after the deed%2C that%27s completely uncalled for.  And given how she reacted when she first encountered Superboy%2C having three or four teenage guys %28and maybe a lesbian for the quota%29 watching her and thinking about %5Bb%5Dit%5B%2Fb%5D would be like everyone in the Justice League wearing Krptonite rings%2C being completely confused why Superman%27s horking up his lunch in the back.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd I am completely certain that will come up at some point.
9|6|8|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|Gryphon||23:07:28|08/08/2006|%3Ebeing completely confused why Superman%27s horking up %0D%0A%3Ehis lunch in the back. %0D%0A%0D%0A%22What%27s with Kent%3F%22  %22Bad seafood.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAnd I am completely certain that will come up at some point. %0D%0A%0D%0AOh%2C probably.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut I won%27t be there to see it.%0D%0A%0D%0ADon%27t worry.  I promise%2C when the time comes%2C the Chief won%27t gloat.%0D%0A%0D%0AKidding%21  That%27s a joke.  I%27m not sure they%27ve actually %5Bi%5Dmet%5B%2Fi%5D.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A%28besides%2C it%27s obviously going to be Kara.  no%21  still kidding%21  I haven%27t considered the matter THAT extensively%29%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Admin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
10|7|9|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|StaticdashPulse||23:13:01|08/08/2006|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-11 AT 03:10 PM (EST)]%5Bfont color%3D%22red%22%5D%5Bsmall%5D%26l%3BOne little letter that means so much... --G.%26r%3B%5B%2Fsmall%5D%5B%2Ffont%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EKidding%21  That%27s a joke.  I%27m not sure they%27ve actually %5Bi%5Dmet%5B%2Fi%5D. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe sword fought in one of the Raven stories%2C iirc.  Besides%2C I know you%27re kidding.  The Chief has a thing for blondes and redheads%3B I%27m pretty sure brunettes are safe.
11|8|10|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|Gryphon||23:19:08|08/08/2006|%3E%3EKidding%21  That%27s a joke.  I%27m not sure they%27ve actually %5Bi%5Dmet%5B%2Fi%5D. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThe sword fought in one of the Raven stories%2C iirc.%0D%0A%0D%0AOh%2C yeah%2C right.  Jeez%2C how could I forget that%3F  Sigh.  It%27s a terrible thing%2C getting old.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EBesides%2C I know %0D%0A%3Eyou%27re kidding.  The Chief has a thing for blondes and redheads%3B I%27m %0D%0A%3Epretty sure brunettes are safe. %0D%0A%0D%0A%28Fixed that typo for you. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0AHmm.  Actually%2C the Chief%27s not so much into blondes.  He%27s met a few that caught his eye%2C but he%27s not liable to notice a woman initially just because she%27s blonde.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs for brunettes being safe%2C I know at least one Vulcan and a Salusian criminalist who might argue that point with you.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Admin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
12|8|10|||||RE%3A Just when I think...|Moonsword||23:23:42|08/08/2006|Uhm%2C yeah%2C right.  %2Anonchalantly waves 8x10s of Domino and Skuld in front Static-Pulse%27s face%2A
18|6|8|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|Peter Eng||13:26:50|08/09/2006|%3E  And given how she reacted when %0D%0A%3Eshe first encountered Superboy%2C having three or four teenage guys %28and %0D%0A%3Emaybe a lesbian for the quota%29 watching her and thinking about %0D%0A%3E%5Bb%5Dit%5B%2Fb%5D would be...%0D%0A%0D%0AA perfect situation for a series of panels%2C in my opinion.  Cass walks by each of the people staring at her%2C and blows them off.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22No.%22%0D%0A%22Forget it.%22%0D%0A%22Never.%22%0D%0A%22Not my type.%22%0D%0A%0D%0APeter Eng%0D%0A--%0D%0AI%27m only a Charter Member because of the DCForum upgrade%2C and because there%27s no rank below %22Clueless F%21wit.%22
15|5|7|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|Ardaniel||03:35:51|08/09/2006|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Aug-09-06 AT 03:37 AM (EDT)]%3E%3Editched the Black %0D%0A%3E%3ECanary%2FDoctor Mid-Nite relationship as quickly as possible%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAs much as I hate to play devil%27s advocate%2C this was probably%3A %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EA%29 driven by external forces %28namely the return of Ollie Queen%29%3B and %0D%0A%3EB%29 for the best%2C since Ollie and Dinah are one of the best couples in %0D%0A%3Ecomics when they%27re handled right. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E... and by %22right%22 I mean %22the way Kevin Smith handled them%2C%22 not %22the %0D%0A%3Eway Judd Winick screwed them the fuck up.%22 %0D%0A%0D%0A1%29 Fuck Doctor Mid-Nite %2Aright%2A in the ear.  Ollie%2F Dinah ftw.%0D%0A%0D%0A2%29 Mike Grell %2Astarted%2A that screwing-the-fuck-up bit by having Ollie and Dinah %2Aboth%2A tortured and Dinah raped%2F later found to be %2Ainfertile%2A due to damage from said rape and torture %28in %5Bi%5DThe Longbow Hunters%5B%2Fi%5D%29.  And shit%2C that wasn%27t even in the Brave New Age of Dark Helmet DiDio-- Winick just went down the same annoying road.%0D%0A%0D%0AArd Sumhenner%0D%0Athat Janice chick%0D%0AUsual Suspect and general menace
16|6|15|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|Mephron||09:49:01|08/09/2006|%3E1%29 Fuck Doctor Mid-Nite %2Aright%2A in the ear.  Ollie%2F Dinah ftw. %0D%0A%0D%0AI liked the Pieter%2FDinah dynamic that started up%2C and I agree with Gryph%3A once they brought Ollie back from the dead%2C it was doomed.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E2%29 Mike Grell %2Astarted%2A that screwing-the-fuck-up bit by having Ollie %0D%0A%3Eand Dinah %2Aboth%2A tortured and Dinah raped%2F later found to be %0D%0A%3E%2Ainfertile%2A due to damage from said rape and torture %28in %5Bi%5DThe %0D%0A%3ELongbow Hunters%5B%2Fi%5D%29.  And shit%2C that wasn%27t even in the Brave New Age %0D%0A%3Eof Dark Helmet DiDio-- Winick just went down the same annoying road. %0D%0A%0D%0AMike Grell needs to be fucked in the ear.  By Captain LongDongDrillDick.  His entire Green Arrow thing was based on his own issues with getting old.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd Judd Winick has apparently forgotten %28or had it sodomized out of him by Geoff Johns%29 that comics are not supposed to be one block of hate after another.  How the hell the guy that created Barry Ween can screw up so much amazes me.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd going back up another conversational fork%3A Cassandra Cain had better be a twin%2Fclone%2Funder mind control.  I mean%2C her one outright nasty act%2C impaling Lady Shiva from a hook over a Lazarus Pit%2C appears to have not taken.  I liked Cass as a character%2C and am more than a little irritated that%2C after everything else%2C apparently no one of Bruce%2C Barbara or Tim went chasing after her to find out what had happened.%0D%0A%0D%0A--%0D%0AGeoff Depew - Darth Mephron%0D%0AHaberdasher to Androids%2C Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.%0D%0A%22And Remember%21  Google is your Friend%21%21%22
17|5|7|||||RE%3A Just when I think...|DocMui||10:51:36|08/09/2006|%3E%3Editched the Black %0D%0A%3E%3ECanary%2FDoctor Mid-Nite relationship as quickly as possible%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAs much as I hate to play devil%27s advocate%2C this was probably%3A %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EA%29 driven by external forces %28namely the return of Ollie Queen%29%3B and %0D%0A%3EB%29 for the best%2C since Ollie and Dinah are one of the best couples in %0D%0A%3Ecomics when they%27re handled right. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E... and by %22right%22 I mean %22the way Kevin Smith handled them%2C%22 not %22the %0D%0A%3Eway Judd Winick screwed them the fuck up.%22 %0D%0A%0D%0AAh%2C yes...I remember that Kevin Smith%27s run on GA piqued my interest%2C Meltzer%27s %22Archer%27s Quest%22 was met with mild intrigue%2C and Winick%27s butchering left me just short of apoplectic outrage.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28In retrospect%2C the Archer%27s Quest arc was one of the few outings by Meltzer that would not inspire an involuntary twitching of the bird finger.%29%0D%0A%0D%0AOllie came back from the dead for Dinah.  Then Winick had him involved in an affair.  I%27m certain that apologists and defenders of Winick would state that stability does not sell or something to that degree.  While I agree that some conflict is required for most plotlines%2C having it done in such a manner as to be blatantly out of character is%2C quite frankly%2C inexcusable.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Dude%2C where have you been%3F  Look around...affairs happen all the time%21  Comics are only reflecting what%27s happening in the real world%21%22  people may tell me.%0D%0A%0D%0AI would reply with an opinion that has been voiced elsewhere%2C that comics are entertainment.  I am not entertained by that crap.%0D%0A%0D%0AI list below a link to Peter David%27s insight on Didio%27s supposed thought processes%2C especially when it came to the late%2C lamented%2C Young Justice%3A%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fpeterdavid.malibulist.com%2Farchives%2F004625.html%0D%0A%0D%0AFor those of you who think that it%27s all about the bottom line%2C it%27s not necessarily true.  It%27s certainly high on the list%2C but for Didio et al.%2C it%27s more a case of them doing it because they can.  As long as there are readers out there who think that this sort of tripe is %22cool%2C%22 they%27ll keep putting it out.%0D%0A%0D%0AWill the bright%2C shiny days of heroism past ever return%3F  I doubt it.  After all%2C according to Meltzer%2C they weren%27t so shiny and they weren%27t really so heroic.  Oh%2C and no Flash villain ever %5Bb%5Dreally%5B%2Fb%5D reformed of his own free will back then.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf there is a fitting punishment for the perpetrators of this travesty%2C it should be having their arms break from patting themselves on the back too much.  Mind you%2C that%27s the gentlest thing I can think of.%0D%0A%0D%0AThat%27s just my 2 cents.%0D%0A%0D%0A--DocMui
19|6|17|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|StaticdashPulse||14:08:34|08/09/2006|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-11 AT 03:10 PM (EST)]Man%2C I miss %5Bi%5DYoung Justice%5B%2Fi%5D...  Wendy the Werewolf Stalker...  Little Tom Servo heads in every book...  Back when Bart and Kon were the buddy-jokers of the team...  The Super-Cycle...  Comics don%27t get much better than that.
20|6|17|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|trigger||18:16:28|08/16/2006|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Aug-16-06 AT 06:18 PM (EDT)]%3EI would reply with an opinion that has been voiced elsewhere%2C that %0D%0A%3Ecomics are entertainment.  I am not entertained by that crap. %0D%0A%0D%0AWait%2C you want to be entertained%3F  In a positive way%3F  What the hell are you thinking%3F%21  %3Cgrin%3E %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EFor those of you who think that it%27s all about the bottom line%2C it%27s %0D%0A%3Enot necessarily true.  It%27s certainly high on the list%2C but for Didio %0D%0A%3Eet al.%2C it%27s more a case of them doing it because they can.  As long %0D%0A%3Eas there are readers out there who think that this sort of tripe is %0D%0A%3E%22cool%2C%22 they%27ll keep putting it out. %0D%0A%0D%0AUm%2C don%27t you mean as long as there are readers who %5Bi%5Dbuy%5B%2Fi%5D this tripe%2C they%27ll keep producing it%3F  %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EWill the bright%2C shiny days of heroism past ever return%3F  I doubt it.  %0D%0A%3EAfter all%2C according to Meltzer%2C they weren%27t so shiny and they %0D%0A%3Eweren%27t really so heroic.  Oh%2C and no Flash villain ever %5Bb%5Dreally%5B%2Fb%5D %0D%0A%3Ereformed of his own free will back then. %0D%0A%0D%0AThat%2C my dear man%2C is why fan fiction and fan art are flourishing. %0D%0A%0D%0ABut to answer your question more seriously... %0D%0A%0D%0AThe audience comic books play to is a varied one - we need only look at this forum to see how varied.  People are requesting complex story lines because it holds their interest %28even when delivered in tiny serials that spend 5 pages on backstory%29.  To hold that interest%2C comics must also be emotional.  And what causes more emotion than being surprised and disgusted%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C yes%2C fine%2C love does.  However%2C the complexity of love requires %28a%29 emotional depth%2C %28b%29 incredible story telling%2C and %28c%29 and audience who picks up on both.  As Alan Moore has demonstrated%2C %27tis easier to hate than love - and so comic books have gone.   They will continue to go that away for sometime%2C which is why I%27ve stopped wasting my time on the classics%2C and have gone for the odd one like %5Bi%5DFables%5B%2Fi%5D instead. %0D%0A%0D%0AAs a final note%2C I do see a ray of sunshine.  Looking at Sam Rami%27s  %5Bi%5DSpiderman%5B%2Fi%5D%2C the recent renassiance of %5Bi%5DDoctor Who%5B%2Fi%5D and the incredibly mainstream %5Bi%5DSuperman Returns%5B%2Fi%5D it is clear that there is a backlash coming.  We can see this too%2C in the very simplified plot line of %5Bi%5DBatman Begins%5B%2Fi%5D.  Perhaps Marvel and DC will miss this %28as they%27ve missed so much of late%29 but people like happy or at least hopeful endings.  They like it when their heroes make the hard decisions and when they don%27t give in to their baser emotons.  People are starting to like heroes%2C not anti-heroes.  So perhaps%2C happy days will be here again.%0D%0A%0D%0At.%0D%0A%0D%0Aedit%3A I suck at DCForum markup%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Maccadon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22If we are marked to die%2C we are enough%0D%0ATo do our country loss%3B and if to live%2C%0D%0AThe fewer men%2C the greater the share of honour%0D%0AGod%27s will I pray thee wish not one man more%22 - Henry V%2C Act%2C IV Scene III%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A
21|7|20|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|Ardaniel||19:41:41|08/16/2006|%3EUm%2C don%27t you mean as long as there are readers who buy this tripe%2C %0D%0A%3Ethey%27ll keep producing it%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AAgreed.  What comprises popular entertainment to most people is a %2Abusiness%2A for the folks making it%2C and fans would do very well not to blur those lines.%0D%0A%0D%0A%2AYou%2A might worry about Ollie and Dinah.  Mr. DiDio is worrying about getting his books into as many grubby hands as possible. %0D%0A%0D%0AArd Sumhenner%0D%0Athat Janice chick%0D%0AUsual Suspect and general menace
22|8|21|||1||RE%3A Just when I think...|Gryphon||19:45:59|08/16/2006|%3E%2AYou%2A might worry about Ollie and Dinah.  Mr. DiDio is worrying about %0D%0A%3Egetting his books into as many grubby hands as possible. %0D%0A%0D%0AIndeed.  It%27s not that Doc is %5Bi%5Dwrong%5B%2Fi%5D that they do it because they can get away with it%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s just that %22getting away with it%22 is measured in magazines sold%2C not%2C say%2C proportion of artistically disappointed readers posting to the DC Comics website.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Admin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A