38||0|1898|0|yes 0|0|0|||1||Those of you familiar...|Wedge||00:26:56|10/30/2006|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-06 AT 01:49 AM (EST) by Ardaniel (moderator)]...with the general show structure of a Blue Angels or Thunderbirds demonstration%2C I have to say that the Thunderbirds%27 execution of tactical surprise at the Edwards Air Force Base Open House today was especially brutal. Well done%2C guys.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.gweep.net%2F%7Ewedge%2Fufchad_ficon.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0ASmirking Kilrathi%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DThe Captain of the Gravy Train%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 1|1|0|||1||RE%3A Those of you familiar...|BlackAeronaut||12:29:28|10/30/2006|Neh%3F Is there a news link available%3F I havn%27t any television available so I%27m not privy to news flashes.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5D%5Bhr%5D%5Bfont size%3D%222%22 face%3D%22Arial Narrow%22%5D%5Bb%5DBlack Aeronaut Technologies%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0ACreative aerospace solutions for the discerning spacer%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22What%3F Under the dorsal guiding feathers%21%3F%22%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 2|2|1|||1||RE%3A Those of you familiar...|Wedge||15:27:57|10/30/2006|%3ENeh%3F Is there a news link available%3F I havn%27t any television %0D%0A%3Eavailable so I%27m not privy to news flashes. %0D%0A%0D%0AThere%27s no news. I was at Edwards yesterday for the open house%2C and the Thunderbirds put on a hell of a show. Anyone who%27s seen either team ought to know what I%27m talking about. Edwards%2C being in the middle of nowhere%2C has a lot more leeway in how they can fly demonstrations. Like%2C say%2C opening the show with a sonic boom. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.gweep.net%2F%7Ewedge%2Fufchad_ficon.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0ASmirking Kilrathi%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DThe Captain of the Gravy Train%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 3|3|2|||1||RE%3A Those of you familiar...|cyberpagan||17:42:18|10/30/2006|In a past life I was stationed at Nellis AFB%2C the home of the Thunderbirds. They used to practice every Thursday at noon%2C so we%27d go outside and watch during lunch. They shut everything else down so they had the runway to themselves. I always liked their routine better than the Blue Angels%2C but then I may have been a bit predjudiced %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%0D%0ARemember%2C two wrongs do not make a right%2C but three lefts do.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m really here%2C but I%27m not here%2C really.%0D%0A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%0D%0ARCW%23665 the other neighbor of the beast 7|3|2|||1||RE%3A Those of you familiar...|Bad Moon||00:19:26|10/31/2006|%3EThere%27s no news. I was at Edwards yesterday for the open house%2C and %0D%0A%3Ethe Thunderbirds put on a hell of a show. Anyone who%27s seen either %0D%0A%3Eteam ought to know what I%27m talking about. Edwards%2C being in the %0D%0A%3Emiddle of nowhere%2C has a lot more leeway in how they can fly %0D%0A%3Edemonstrations. Like%2C say%2C opening the show with a sonic boom. %3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AAww man%2C that sounds awesome. We get the Angels every year and the Thunderbirds come out to McChord every once and awhile%2C but no kick ass stuff like that. Sonic booms over urban%2Fsuburban Western Washington %3D tens of thousand pissed off Puget Sounders %3AD.%0D%0A%0D%0A------%0D%0AJon Helscher%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bb%5DRY%3A%5B%2Fb%5D Blackbeard has the weapon traditionally considered by children to be the ultimate destructive instrument%2C the %5Bi%5Dbazooka%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bb%5DAB%3A%5B%2Fb%5D Only to be trumped by the %5Bi%5Dbazooka that fires dinosaurs.%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ARyan Yount %26 Andrew Boyd%27s Authors Commentary in %5Bi%5DScurvy Dogs%5B%2Fi%5D TPB %231 8|4|7|||1||RE%3A Those of you familiar...|Gryphon||01:26:27|10/31/2006|%3ESonic booms over urban%2Fsuburban Western %0D%0A%3EWashington %3D tens of thousand pissed off Puget Sounders%0D%0A%0D%0AYou say that like it would be a %5Bi%5Dbad%5B%2Fi%5D thing.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Admin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 9|5|8|||1||RE%3A Those of you familiar...|BlackAeronaut||02:16:07|10/31/2006|%3E%3ESonic booms over urban%2Fsuburban Western %0D%0A%3E%3EWashington %3D tens of thousand pissed off Puget Sounders%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYou say that like it would be a %5Bi%5Dbad%5B%2Fi%5D thing. %0D%0A%0D%0A%2ALaughs like a deranged scientist%2A%0D%0A%0D%0AAh. -Ahem-%0D%0A%0D%0AReally though%2C methinks some of them are real turkeys up there in the Sound - I oughta know%2C I lived in the region for seven years once. The Angels -used- to perform at every Sea-Fair as they raced jet-propelled hydroplanes in the bay... and then out of fear of something bad happening%2C they switched to the much more sedate Snow Birds. %2AShakes his head and sighs%2A%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5D%5Bhr%5D%5Bfont size%3D%222%22 face%3D%22Arial Narrow%22%5D%5Bb%5DBlack Aeronaut Technologies%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0ACreative aerospace solutions for the discerning spacer%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22What%3F Under the dorsal guiding feathers%21%3F%22%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 15|5|8|||1||RE%3A Those of you familiar...|Bad Moon||16:03:27|10/31/2006|%3E%3ESonic booms over urban%2Fsuburban Western %0D%0A%3E%3EWashington %3D tens of thousand pissed off Puget Sounders%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYou say that like it would be a %5Bi%5Dbad%5B%2Fi%5D thing. %0D%0A%0D%0AHell yeah it is%2C people here suck at driving as it is. Adding irritability to the normal placid cluelessness is pure madness.%0D%0A%0D%0A------%0D%0AJon Helscher%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bb%5DRY%3A%5B%2Fb%5D Blackbeard has the weapon traditionally considered by children to be the ultimate destructive instrument%2C the %5Bi%5Dbazooka%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bb%5DAB%3A%5B%2Fb%5D Only to be trumped by the %5Bi%5Dbazooka that fires dinosaurs.%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ARyan Yount %26 Andrew Boyd%27s Authors Commentary in %5Bi%5DScurvy Dogs%5B%2Fi%5D TPB %231 4|1|0|||1||RE%3A Those of you familiar...|McFortner||20:10:41|10/30/2006|You mean at the beginning of the show%2C when 1 - 4 are flying down the runway and solo 5 and 6 cross over%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AMichael%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd width%3D%2265%22%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.railroadforum.com%2Fupload%2Fmcfortner%2Fsabrina.gif%5B%2Ftd%5D%0D%0A%5Btd%5D%5Bfont color%3D%22black%22 size%3D-1%5DMichael C. Fortner%5B%2Ffont%5D%5Bfont color%3D%22red%22 size%3D-1%5D %0D%0ARCW %232%5Bsup%5Dn%5B%2Fsup%5D%2B1%5B%2Ffont%5D%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22green%22 size%3D-1%5D%22I smoke in moderation. Only one cigar at a time.%22%0D%0A-- Mark Twain%0D%0A%5Bfont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D %0D%0A 5|2|4|||1||RE%3A Those of you familiar...|Wedge||23:35:01|10/30/2006|%3EYou mean at the beginning of the show%2C when 1 - 4 are flying down the %0D%0A%3Erunway and solo 5 and 6 cross over%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AHeh%2C they%27ve changed it up a bit%2C was more at the halfway point%2C and the main group was doing one of the 5-ship maneuvers%2C a big%2C swooping coordinated roll%2Floop. While everyone was watching that rather sedate bit%2C 6 approached from behind show left at a high enough rate of speed that you didn%27t know he was there until he was right above the crowd. I%27ve seen them do bits like it before%2C but I have to imagine they have a little more freedom at Edwards%2C as he had to be at whatever the assigned deck was. I%27d have to guess 500%27%2C though maybe higher%2C but not by much.%0D%0A%0D%0AI knew it was coming and it about made me come out of my skin. Someone in front of us almost just dropped to the concrete. It was perfectly executed. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.gweep.net%2F%7Ewedge%2Fufchad_ficon.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0ASmirking Kilrathi%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DThe Captain of the Gravy Train%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 6|3|5|||1||Bonus%3A Have a picture|Wedge||23:36:53|10/30/2006|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-06 AT 11:37 PM (EST)]http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gweep.net%2F%7Ewedge%2Fb-moon.jpg%0D%0A%0D%0APure luck%2C I was shooting wild from my dinky little point-and-shoot digital camera. Downloaded the memory card last night and about died when I saw what I%27d caught. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.gweep.net%2F%7Ewedge%2Fufchad_ficon.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0ASmirking Kilrathi%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DThe Captain of the Gravy Train%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 10|4|6|||1||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|BlackAeronaut||02:24:04|10/31/2006|I know the one to the left is the infamous B-1B Bomber%2C well known for -shitting- their entire payloads at absurd velocities%2C thanks to their rotary bomb racks. Seriously. Bomb bay doors open%2C suddenly all three racks spin%2C and then 24 bombs are away. Happy Birthday%2C I hope you like flaming explosive death. %5E_%5E%0D%0A%0D%0AThe other%2C I don%27t know about.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5D%5Bhr%5D%5Bfont size%3D%222%22 face%3D%22Arial Narrow%22%5D%5Bb%5DBlack Aeronaut Technologies%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0ACreative aerospace solutions for the discerning spacer%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22What%3F Under the dorsal guiding feathers%21%3F%22%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 11|5|10|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|BZArcher||07:05:19|10/31/2006|The other one%27s the good old Big Ugly Fat Fucker - the B-52.%0D%0A%0D%0ABeautiful picture%2C Wedge%21 12|6|11|||1||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|BlackAeronaut||12:52:22|10/31/2006|%3EThe other one%27s the good old Big Ugly Fat Fucker - the B-52. %0D%0A%0D%0AAhh%2C you don%27t see too many of these guys around anymore. Unfortunately%2C they just aren%27t all that useful anymore with the way current missile technologies are going. Now%2C if they were to replace the cannons-that-ate-Toledo on the tail with a high-power lazer... Then maybe the good old BUFF can get a new lease on life.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5D%5Bhr%5D%5Bfont size%3D%222%22 face%3D%22Arial Narrow%22%5D%5Bb%5DBlack Aeronaut Technologies%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0ACreative aerospace solutions for the discerning spacer%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22What%3F Under the dorsal guiding feathers%21%3F%22%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 13|7|12|||1||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|Gryphon||13:03:32|10/31/2006|%3E%3EThe other one%27s the good old Big Ugly Fat Fucker - the B-52. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAhh%2C you don%27t see too many of these guys around anymore. %0D%0A%3EUnfortunately%2C they just aren%27t all that useful anymore with the way %0D%0A%3Ecurrent missile technologies are going.%0D%0A%0D%0AThat%27s both silly and incorrect.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Admin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 16|8|13|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|fb111a||16:08:01|10/31/2006|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-06 AT 04:36 PM (EST) by Ardaniel (moderator)]%5Bi%5D%5Bsmall%5Dfb%2C it%27s not necessary to quote the entire reply thread with people%27s .sigs. Have mercy. %3B%29 --ardie%5B%2Fsmall%5D%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3EAhh%2C you don%27t see too many of these guys around anymore. %0D%0A%3E%3EUnfortunately%2C they just aren%27t all that useful anymore with the way %0D%0A%3E%3Ecurrent missile technologies are going.%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThat%27s both silly and incorrect. %0D%0A%0D%0AAgreed. The b-52 is still plenty capable.%0D%0A%0D%0AToo bad a lot of the G-models ended up retired. Hopefully%2C they did not get %22chopped%22%2C but I suspect they may have. %3A%28 24|8|13|||1||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|BlackAeronaut||01:22:07|11/01/2006|%3EThat%27s both silly and incorrect. %0D%0A%0D%0APerhaps. I%27ve been wrong before. I can understand that electronic warefare technology has pregressed quite remarkably over the years. The B-52 is certainly not without it%27s good points - as far as I know it has the biggest ordnance payload capacity out of anything out there. They can also land in some of the most adverse conditions. The landing gear can turn several degrees to either side so as to allow the %2752 to land out of alignment with the runway.%0D%0A%0D%0AI can also understand why all self-defense armaments were removed. These days%2C you%27re a lot more likely to be taken out by ground based missile instalations than anything else. Personally%2C I wouldn%27t be so careless - all you need is one MIG to mess up your day.%0D%0A%0D%0AI suppose the thing that makes me think like that is that back in the cold war era when these guys patrolled Russian controlled assets%2C they expected only a handful to return if the proverbial shit hit the fan.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5D%5Bhr%5D%5Bfont size%3D%222%22 face%3D%22Arial Narrow%22%5D%5Bb%5DBlack Aeronaut Technologies%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0ACreative aerospace solutions for the discerning spacer%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22What%3F Under the dorsal guiding feathers%21%3F%22%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 25|9|24|||1||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|Wedge||12:23:08|11/01/2006|%3EI can also understand why all self-defense armaments were removed. %0D%0A%3EThese days%2C you%27re a lot more likely to be taken out by ground based %0D%0A%3Emissile instalations than anything else. Personally%2C I wouldn%27t be so %0D%0A%3Ecareless - all you need is one MIG to mess up your day. %0D%0A%0D%0ANot many MiG%27s in the air over Afghanistan or Iraq. Not much AA%2C either. %3B%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.gweep.net%2F%7Ewedge%2Fufchad_ficon.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0ASmirking Kilrathi%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DThe Captain of the Gravy Train%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 26|9|24|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|fb111a||13:04:11|11/01/2006|%3E%3EThat%27s both silly and incorrect. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EPerhaps. I%27ve been wrong before. I can understand that electronic %0D%0A%3Ewarefare technology has pregressed quite remarkably over the years. %0D%0A%3EThe B-52 is certainly not without it%27s good points - as far as I know %0D%0A%3Eit has the biggest ordnance payload capacity out of anything out %0D%0A%3Ethere. They can also land in some of the most adverse conditions. %0D%0A%3EThe landing gear can turn several degrees to either side so as to %0D%0A%3Eallow the %2752 to land out of alignment with the runway. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AActually%2C the B-1 can carry far more %2884 Mk 82-class bombs internally%2C 44 more externally to 51 for the B-52%3B 24 internal ALCM plus 14 external vs. 20 for a B-52%29. The B-52 is still a good plane for its mission%2C but I sure wish we could build more B-1Bs. 27|8|13|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|jadmire||19:42:45|11/01/2006|%3E%3E%3EThe other one%27s the good old Big Ugly Fat Fucker - the B-52. %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EAhh%2C you don%27t see too many of these guys around anymore. %0D%0A%3E%3EUnfortunately%2C they just aren%27t all that useful anymore with the way %0D%0A%3E%3Ecurrent missile technologies are going.%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThat%27s both silly and incorrect. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AAgreed. There is simply no other plane around that can match the sheer bombload the B-52 is able to deliver. And as for the vaunted missiles%2C I seem to recall that most plane damage during the 2003 Iraqi campaign was caused by gunfire. I remember seeing a picture of a Warthog that got truly chewed up by Iraqi AAA but still made it back to base.%0D%0A%0D%0A-Joe-%0D%0A 14|7|12|||1||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|Wedge||13:21:12|10/31/2006|%3E%3EThe other one%27s the good old Big Ugly Fat Fucker - the B-52. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAhh%2C you don%27t see too many of these guys around anymore. %0D%0A%3EUnfortunately%2C they just aren%27t all that useful anymore with the way %0D%0A%3Ecurrent missile technologies are going. Now%2C if they were to replace %0D%0A%3Ethe cannons-that-ate-Toledo on the tail with a high-power lazer... %0D%0A%3EThen maybe the good old BUFF can get a new lease on life. %0D%0A%0D%0AWow%2C I hate adding a %27me too%27 post%2C but Gryph is right. This is indeed the silliest and most ill informed thing I think I%27ve read all week.%0D%0A%0D%0AThere are%2C in fact%2C as many B-52%27s still in active service as there are B-1B%27s and B-2%27s %5Bi%5Dcombined%5B%2Fi%5D%2C so you actually see them %5Bi%5Dquite a lot%5B%2Fi%5D. The B-52 has not carried a tailgun at all for over 10 years. And under current upgrade programs they%27ll still be flying through 2040%2C probably longer.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd it%27s laser. Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. Jesus.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.gweep.net%2F%7Ewedge%2Fufchad_ficon.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0ASmirking Kilrathi%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DThe Captain of the Gravy Train%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 17|8|14|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|BLUE||16:58:34|10/31/2006|%3EThere are%2C in fact%2C as many B-52%27s still in active service as there %0D%0A%3Eare B-1B%27s and B-2%27s %5Bi%5Dcombined%5B%2Fi%5D%2C so you actually see them %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5Dquite a lot%5B%2Fi%5D. The B-52 has not carried a tailgun at all for %0D%0A%3Eover 10 years. And under current upgrade programs they%27ll still be %0D%0A%3Eflying through 2040%2C probably longer. %0D%0A%0D%0AI thought that the B-52H had replaced the 4 .50 machine guns with a 20mm rotary machine gun similar to a CIWS or the cannon on the F-15. Did they do away with these as well%3F And even if the newest upgrade did away with it%2C with the speed the military moves at%2C there are sure to still be some -H%27s in the fleet that retain their guns - for now.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ve heard 2050 mentioned several times as the new service life of the B-52. That would put it at a service life%2C from design to EOS%2C of almost 100 years. It may be Big%2C it may be Ugly%2C but the BUFF will last for just about forever.%0D%0A%0D%0ANow%2C if they could just find a way to give the A-10%27s that the AF is doing away with to the Army without the AF getting their noses out of joint...%0D%0A%0D%0AI miss the B-1. The Rockwell plant where the B-1 was built was in Columbus%2C OH. and one of the flight paths the B-1%27s would take when they transferred them out flew over the neighborhood I grew up in. Loved that. 18|9|17|||1||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|McFortner||17:38:42|10/31/2006|When I was stationed at Offutt%2C AFB just outside Omaha%2C NE from %2790 - %2793%2C the Looking Glass pilots would fly T-38 Talons to keep up their flight proficency. They would often get in long lines of planes doing a %22crash-n-dash%22%2C basically a fast touch-and-go on the run way%2C pull up fast and take a sharp snap turn to the south. Looks pretty cool when they do it.%0D%0A%0D%0AOne day%2C a B-1 was out for a dog and pony show for the SAC top brass%2C and the pilot decided to get in the line with the T-38s. My squadron was at the end of the active runway and I was just coming back from a detail when the B-1 pilot made his first pass. Totally blew my socks off when he not only did it as fast as the T-38s%2C but JUST AS SHARP of a snap turn. You would swear something that big could not turn that fast...%0D%0A%0D%0AMichael %0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd width%3D%2265%22%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.railroadforum.com%2Fupload%2Fmcfortner%2Fsabrina.gif%5B%2Ftd%5D%0D%0A%5Btd%5D%5Bfont color%3D%22black%22 size%3D-1%5DMichael C. Fortner%5B%2Ffont%5D%5Bfont color%3D%22red%22 size%3D-1%5D %0D%0ARCW %232%5Bsup%5Dn%5B%2Fsup%5D%2B1%5B%2Ffont%5D%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22green%22 size%3D-1%5D%22I smoke in moderation. Only one cigar at a time.%22%0D%0A-- Mark Twain%0D%0A%5Bfont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D %0D%0A 21|9|17|||1||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|Wedge||18:54:13|10/31/2006|%3EI thought that the B-52H had replaced the 4 .50 machine guns with a %0D%0A%3E20mm rotary machine gun similar to a CIWS or the cannon on the F-15. %0D%0A%3EDid they do away with these as well%3F And even if the newest upgrade %0D%0A%3Edid away with it%2C with the speed the military moves at%2C there are sure %0D%0A%3Eto still be some -H%27s in the fleet that retain their guns - for now. %0D%0A%0D%0AYes%2C they did replace it with a single Vulcan%2C but no%2C they pulled them all out in the mid-90%27s. They were great against MiG%27s in Vietnam%2C but not much use against longer range missiles today%2C so they got rid of them to save weight for more ECM and the like.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ENow%2C if they could just find a way to give the A-10%27s that the AF is %0D%0A%3Edoing away with to the Army without the AF getting their noses out of %0D%0A%3Ejoint... %0D%0A%0D%0AThe A-10 isn%27t going anywhere. They%27ve just started an upgrade program that will turn all 300%2B of the existing aircraft into A-10C%27s%2C with an expected service life through 2028. The A-10 demo they did this weekend was one of the best ones I%27ve ever seen. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.gweep.net%2F%7Ewedge%2Fufchad_ficon.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0ASmirking Kilrathi%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DThe Captain of the Gravy Train%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 23|10|21|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|BZArcher||23:10:15|10/31/2006|%3EThe A-10 isn%27t going anywhere. They%27ve just started an upgrade %0D%0A%3Eprogram that will turn all 300%2B of the existing aircraft into A-10C%27s%2C %0D%0A%3Ewith an expected service life through 2028. The A-10 demo they did %0D%0A%3Ethis weekend was one of the best ones I%27ve ever seen. %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AAwesome%21 %0D%0A%0D%0AEver since I got to see one at the AF Museum in Dayton as a kid%2C that%27s been one of my favorite planes. Glad to hear they%27re still keeping the %27Hog off the boneyard list. 28|10|21|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|jadmire||19:45:42|11/01/2006|Good news%21 I love the %27Hog. It%27s a flippin%27 flying tank. %0D%0A%0D%0A-Joe- 29|10|21|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|BLUE||21:34:48|11/03/2006|%3EThe A-10 isn%27t going anywhere. They%27ve just started an upgrade %0D%0A%3Eprogram that will turn all 300%2B of the existing aircraft into A-10C%27s%2C %0D%0A%3Ewith an expected service life through 2028. The A-10 demo they did %0D%0A%3Ethis weekend was one of the best ones I%27ve ever seen. %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0AExcellent. I just remember grumbling that I heard from the Army guys in the DC area about the AF talking about getting rid of the A-10%2C and the Army whining about how they wanted them if the AF didn%27t%2C but the AF wouldn%27t give them over because of the %27no fixed-wing%27 agreement.%0D%0A%0D%0AI find it odd that all the greatest planes in the AF inventory are OLD%2C old technology%2C old designs. The A-10%2C the B-52%2C the F-15%2C the C-130...the only recent success I can think of is the C-17. Well%2C the F-22 is a good plane%2C but they%27ll never be acquired in the numbers the AF wants. 30|11|29|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|jadmire||22:54:45|11/03/2006|What I think is that it takes several iterations for the technology to get to a level that really works. Which%2C I think%2C is something that the WDF found out in the UFverse as well.%0D%0A%0D%0A-Joe- 31|12|30|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|BLUE||09:58:13|11/04/2006|%3EWhat I think is that it takes several iterations for the technology to %0D%0A%3Eget to a level that really works. Which%2C I think%2C is something that %0D%0A%3Ethe WDF found out in the UFverse as well. %0D%0A%0D%0ATo a certain extent that%27s true. The F%2FA-18 E%2FF is better than all previous varients of the F%2FA-18. But my point was more that the US military hasn%27t managed to come up with a decent plane since the 70%27s%2C other than the F-22. The F-117 is stealthy%2C but handles like a pig. The B-2 is so expensive that the US doesn%27t really want to risk them and never bought them in great number. The JSF is a disaster waiting to happen. There hasn%27t been a good naval aviation design that%27s made it off the drawing board in years. The V-22 has been plagued by mechanical troubles since it%27s introduction %28and only marginally qualifies as a %27plane%27%29. There has been no successor to the A-10 or the F-14. The F%2FA-18 can handle the attack role of the A-6%2C but the other roles of the A-6 airframe %28the EA-6 Prowler and the KA-6 tanker varients%29 don%27t fit in the -18%27s profile%2C and the -18 is a bit more of a generalist. With all the advances in technology%2C you%27d think that the military could find a new plane or two. 32|13|31|||1||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|Wedge||14:58:56|11/04/2006|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-06 AT 03:02 PM (EST)]%3EThe F%2FA-18 can handle the attack role of the A-6%2C but the %0D%0A%3Eother roles of the A-6 airframe %28the EA-6 Prowler and the KA-6 tanker %0D%0A%3Evarients%29 don%27t fit in the -18%27s profile%2C and the -18 is a bit more of %0D%0A%3Ea generalist.%0D%0A%0D%0ANot true. They%27ve begun production on the EA-18G%2C based on the Super Hornet and built to replace the EA-6B and the already-retired EF-11A %28Hornets in Air Force markings%21 Dogs and cats%2C %26c%29. And the G isn%27t just becuase it comes after F%2C it%27ll carry AGM-88%27s along with all the jamming gear%2C making it a proper Wild Weasel to boot.%0D%0A%0D%0Aedit%3A The Super Hornet pulls tanker duty%2C too%2C FYI. They haven%27t flown KA-6%27s since the Intruders were retired in 1997.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.gweep.net%2F%7Ewedge%2Fufchad_ficon.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0ASmirking Kilrathi%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DThe Captain of the Gravy Train%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 34|14|32|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|BLUE||00:23:38|11/05/2006|%3ENot true. They%27ve begun production on the EA-18G%2C based on the Super %0D%0A%3EHornet and built to replace the EA-6B and the already-retired EF-11A %0D%0A%3E%28Hornets in Air Force markings%21 Dogs and cats%2C %26c%29. And the G isn%27t %0D%0A%3Ejust becuase it comes after F%2C it%27ll carry AGM-88%27s along with all the %0D%0A%3Ejamming gear%2C making it a proper Wild Weasel to boot. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3Eedit%3A The Super Hornet pulls tanker duty%2C too%2C FYI. They haven%27t %0D%0A%3Eflown KA-6%27s since the Intruders were retired in 1997. %0D%0A%0D%0AI didn%27t know about the -G%2C thanks for the info.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m boggling at the concept of a Super Hornet as a tanker. I believe what you say%2C but I just can%27t see it. Tankers are supposed to LOOK like tankers%2C damnit. 33|13|31|||1||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|BlackAeronaut||18:52:27|11/04/2006|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-06 AT 06:53 PM (EST)]EDIT%3A Crud%21 Meant to post this as a reply to BLUE%27s post%21%0D%0A%0D%0ADunno%2C the F-16 seemed pretty decent. Granted%2C it wasn%27t as capable as the F-14 in areas like%2C say%2C payload capacity%2C but it%27s still decent. Good speed and manuverability%2C decent payload and range%2C as well as versatile and %28relatively%29 cheap.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhile the F-22 is certainly nicely featured and extremely useful%2C I%27d imagine the the F-16 will see many more years of service simply because they%27re cheap and they do what they do rather well.%0D%0A%0D%0AHeh - funny thought. If US Warplanes were likened unto ground troops%2C the F-22 could be considered something like Spec-Ops while the F-16 would be your standard infantryman.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5D%5Bhr%5D%5Bfont size%3D%222%22 face%3D%22Arial Narrow%22%5D%5Bb%5DBlack Aeronaut Technologies%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0ACreative aerospace solutions for the discerning spacer%0D%0A%5Bi%5D%22To the commissary we should go%2C%22 Yoda declared firmly. %22News of this kind a danish requires.%22%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 35|14|33|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|BLUE||00:28:35|11/05/2006|%3EDunno%2C the F-16 seemed pretty decent. Granted%2C it wasn%27t as capable %0D%0A%3Eas the F-14 in areas like%2C say%2C payload capacity%2C but it%27s still %0D%0A%3Edecent. Good speed and manuverability%2C decent payload and range%2C as %0D%0A%3Ewell as versatile and %28relatively%29 cheap. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EWhile the F-22 is certainly nicely featured and extremely useful%2C I%27d %0D%0A%3Eimagine the the F-16 will see many more years of service simply %0D%0A%3Ebecause they%27re cheap and they do what they do rather well. %0D%0A%0D%0AMy bad%2C I was under assault by a 3 year old when I made my last post%2C and forgot the -16. I agree with you about the workhorseman like qualities of the -16%3B the only thing I%27ve never liked about it is the single engine%2C but it%27s a good design. Another fairly old design%2C but a good design.%0D%0A%0D%0ANo one seems to argue the view that there aren%27t any good new planes...%0D%0A 36|15|35|||1||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|Gryphon||00:39:21|11/05/2006|%3ENo one seems to argue the view that there aren%27t any good new %0D%0A%3Eplanes... %0D%0A%0D%0AAerospace technology advances much more slowly today than it did in the days when there was a military force anywhere on Earth that could conceivably challenge the United States in the air.%0D%0A%0D%0AFunny%2C that.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Admin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 38|16|36|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|BLUE||12:02:22|11/05/2006|%3EAerospace technology advances much more slowly today than it did in %0D%0A%3Ethe days when there was a military force anywhere on Earth that could %0D%0A%3Econceivably challenge the United States in the air. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EFunny%2C that. %0D%0A%0D%0ATrue enough. The advances in ground warfare technology %28the HMMVM%2C the Stryker%2C digicam%2C new and better machine guns%29%2C while cheaper in overall development%2C were developed because of a continued threat on the ground from Iraq%2C Afghanistan%2C etc. I guess the problem I see is that when the time comes that we%27ll need new technology%2C we won%27t have it.%0D%0A%0D%0AWe%27ll see what happens in the future. 37|15|35|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|Divefire||06:20:56|11/05/2006|%3ENo one seems to argue the view that there aren%27t any good new %0D%0A%3Eplanes... %0D%0A%0D%0AIs that in regards to the American air fleet or world wide%3F %0D%0A%0D%0A%2Fgoes back to lurking 22|7|12|||||RE%3A Bonus%3A Have a picture|BZArcher||23:08:04|10/31/2006|All I%27m gonna add to this is that on most of the later models%2C they did replace the tail gatling with very powerful ECM and EW gear that helps the protect the plane from a lot more dangers than the 20mm could. 19|3|5|||1||RE%3A Those of you familiar...|McFortner||17:46:22|10/31/2006|I got stuck doing cleaning detail for Offutt AFB%27s %2790 show. When the Thunderbirds started%2C you could not get anywhere close to the flight line%2C so I sat under the wing of a P-3 Orion with it%27s Navy crew to watch the show. That is when 5 and 6 came up behind us just short of Mach 1. Never knew they were there until they passed overhead. What a rush%21 %0D%0A%0D%0AThe funny thing is%2C back where we were during the show%2C we had the best spot to watch everything from%2C plus we were in the shade under the wings while everybody else were baking their backsides off%21%0D%0A%0D%0ANow if I could go see a Blue Angels show....%0D%0A%0D%0AMichael%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd width%3D%2265%22%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.railroadforum.com%2Fupload%2Fmcfortner%2Fsabrina.gif%5B%2Ftd%5D%0D%0A%5Btd%5D%5Bfont color%3D%22black%22 size%3D-1%5DMichael C. Fortner%5B%2Ffont%5D%5Bfont color%3D%22red%22 size%3D-1%5D %0D%0ARCW %232%5Bsup%5Dn%5B%2Fsup%5D%2B1%5B%2Ffont%5D%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22green%22 size%3D-1%5D%22I smoke in moderation. Only one cigar at a time.%22%0D%0A-- Mark Twain%0D%0A%5Bfont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D %0D%0A 20|4|19|||1||RE%3A Those of you familiar...|Ardaniel||17:49:03|10/31/2006|%3EThe funny thing is%2C back where we were during the show%2C we had the %0D%0A%3Ebest spot to watch everything from%2C plus we were in the shade under %0D%0A%3Ethe wings while everybody else were baking their backsides off%21 %0D%0A%0D%0AThere%27s usually about 400 people or more parked under each wing of N905NA at the Edwards show%2C which I%27ve attended before. %3B%29%0D%0A%0D%0AArd Sumhenner%0D%0Athat Janice chick%0D%0AUsual Suspect and general menace