16||0|786|0|yes
0|0|0|||||I%27m an idiot...|Shadowhavoc||13:25:08|03/19/2002|Having been bitten by the muse as soon as I awoke today%2C I came to a sudden realization about something in one of my current projects %28Vanished Knights%29. The big picture of it all%2C when the %22Bad Guys%22 start dropping like flies all over Florida%2C exactly how would the police react%3F And if they couldn%27t apprehend the vigilante psychotics%2C would the federal government%2C or the military become involved%3F Ye Gods%2C until this morning%2C I%27ve never considered the reactions of certain organizations. This is gonna take a lot of thinking and research...%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AAm I rambling%3F
1|1|0|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|zojojojo||13:38:27|03/19/2002|%3EHaving been bitten by the muse as soon as I awoke today%2C I came to a %0D%0A%3Esudden realization about something in one of my current projects %0D%0A%3E%28Vanished Knights%29. The big picture of it all%2C when the %22Bad Guys%22 %0D%0A%3Estart dropping like flies all over Florida%2C exactly how would the %0D%0A%3Epolice react%3F And if they couldn%27t apprehend the vigilante psychotics%2C %0D%0A%3Ewould the federal government%2C or the military become involved%3F Ye %0D%0A%3EGods%2C until this morning%2C I%27ve never considered the reactions of %0D%0A%3Ecertain organizations. This is gonna take a lot of thinking and %0D%0A%3Eresearch... %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m guessing that the military wouldn%27t get involved period. The feds may bet involved if the crimes are federal in nature %28kidnapping%2C etc.%29 or at the request of the locals or if one of the %22Bad Guys%22 was a fed of some sort. The national guard may get involved at the request of the governor%2C but only as a peace-keeping force. They%27re not equiped to handle investigations%2C but they%27re good for raids and generally keeping the public out of the way%2Fstreets. %0D%0A%0D%0AI think that%2C barring an all-out war on the streets%2C it will stay a local%2Fstate police matter%2C albeit a high-profile one. Depending on how%2Fhow often the corpses turn up%2C a federal task force may get involved...%0D%0A%0D%0AAnyway%2C that%27s my speculation from watching way too much tv... YMMV...%0D%0A%0D%0A-Z %5Bi%5DProfessional Speculator and Know-It-All. Will speculate for pay%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ARabid Crack Turtle 3.14159%0D%0A---%0D%0AWe are Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated.
2|2|1|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|Shadowhavoc||13:50:44|03/19/2002|%3EI think that%2C barring an all-out war on the streets%2C it will stay a %0D%0A%3Elocal%2Fstate police matter%2C albeit a high-profile one. Depending on %0D%0A%3Ehow%2Fhow often the corpses turn up%2C a federal task force may get %0D%0A%3Einvolved... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C major criminal networks getting raided by the VK%27s every couple weeks or so%2C mixed in with an occassional confrontations on the streets themselves. Is that warranteed for a federal investigation%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Maybe they have gold fillings or something%21 This is an adventure%2C damn it%21 I demand financial rewards for acts of homicide%21%22
3|3|2|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|Perko||14:23:23|03/19/2002|There are a lot of different kinds of dead. Crime lord found floating in river is significantly different than crime lord found stacked with thirty underlings in abandoned factory or crime lord found at west street... and third street... and in the Denny%27s fry grease...%0D%0A%0D%0AAlso depends on the sociopolitical stuff of the place you%27re writing. Response in today%27s world is vastly different than%2C say%2C 2050 corp-owned worlds or Star-Trek.%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%221%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D1 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd width%3D%2265%22%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.wpi.edu%2F%7Eperko%2Fminime.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5D%5Bfont color%3D%22%230000aa%22%5DCraig %22Splat%21%22 Perko%5B%2Ffont%5D %0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23880000%22 size%3D-1%5DLost in my own maze.%5B%2Ffont%5D %0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%23aa0088%22 size%3D-1%5DConfused but not concerned.%5B%2Ffont%5D %0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%2300aa88%22 size%3D-1%5DConfused but not concerned.%5B%2Ffont%5D %0D%0A%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D1 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D %0D%0A%5B%2Ftable%5D 
5|4|3|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|Shadowhavoc||11:34:53|03/20/2002|%3EThere are a lot of different kinds of dead. Crime lord found floating %0D%0A%3Ein river is significantly different than crime lord found stacked with %0D%0A%3Ethirty underlings in abandoned factory or crime lord found at west %0D%0A%3Estreet... and third street... and in the Denny%27s fry grease... %0D%0A%0D%0AUm%2C more likely along the lines of %22Crime lord found stacked with thirty underlings in abandoned factory%22 with justifiable evidence for their deaths. %28From my point of view anyway%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAlso depends on the sociopolitical stuff of the place you%27re writing. %0D%0A%3EResponse in today%27s world is vastly different than%2C say%2C 2050 %0D%0A%3Ecorp-owned worlds or Star-Trek. %0D%0A%0D%0AToday%27s world. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Maybe they have gold fillings or something%21 This is an adventure%2C damn it%21 I demand financial rewards for acts of homicide%21%22
8|4|3|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|remande||13:30:40|03/20/2002|%3EThere are a lot of different kinds of dead. Crime lord found floating %0D%0A%3Ein river is significantly different than crime lord found stacked with %0D%0A%3Ethirty underlings in abandoned factory or crime lord found at west %0D%0A%3Estreet... and third street... and in the Denny%27s fry grease... %0D%0A%0D%0AWhat%5Bem%5Dever%5B%2Fem%5D you do%2C don%27t put him in the Denny%27s fry grease.  Then you get the Department of Health%2C OSHA%2C and the FDA involved.  And that can be %5Bem%5Dbad%5B%2Fem%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A     --rR%0D%0ARabid Crack Weasel %23625%0D%0A
9|5|8|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|Shadowhavoc||13:55:28|03/20/2002|%3E%3EThere are a lot of different kinds of dead. Crime lord found floating %0D%0A%3E%3Ein river is significantly different than crime lord found stacked with %0D%0A%3E%3Ethirty underlings in abandoned factory or crime lord found at west %0D%0A%3E%3Estreet... and third street... and in the Denny%27s fry grease... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EWhat%5Bem%5Dever%5B%2Fem%5D you do%2C don%27t put him in the Denny%27s fry grease.  %0D%0A%3EThen you get the Department of Health%2C OSHA%2C and the FDA involved.  %0D%0A%3EAnd that can be %5Bem%5Dbad%5B%2Fem%5D %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AHold on%2C I%27m taking notes....%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Maybe they have gold fillings or something%21 This is an adventure%2C damn it%21 I demand financial rewards for acts of homicide%21%22
4|1|0|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|Star Ranger4||19:48:38|03/19/2002|%3EHaving been bitten by the muse as soon as I awoke today%2C I came to a %0D%0A%3Esudden realization about something in one of my current projects %0D%0A%3E%28Vanished Knights%29. The big picture of it all%2C when the %22Bad Guys%22 %0D%0A%3Estart dropping like flies all over Florida%2C exactly how would the %0D%0A%3Epolice react%3F And if they couldn%27t apprehend the vigilante psychotics%2C %0D%0A%3Ewould the federal government%2C or the military become involved%3F Ye %0D%0A%3EGods%2C until this morning%2C I%27ve never considered the reactions of %0D%0A%3Ecertain organizations. This is gonna take a lot of thinking and %0D%0A%3Eresearch... %0D%0A%0D%0AUntill or unless it becomes clear that a federal statute is being broken or the case crosses state lines%2C the best the FBI can do is offer scientific support %28print matches%2C trace evidence analysis%2C etc%29.  Same with the Military... if it doesn%27t involve a crime on one of their bases%2C they can%27t and won%27t get involved either.  And calling out the national guard means declaring a state of emergancy%2C and even then they%27d be limited to policing the streets%2C not performing an investigation%3B although calling out the guard and using them as street patrol might allow for the use of the rest of the police manpower on just this one case most goveners would not do so because of the political impications of such a move.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd%2C as others have pointed out%2C the meathod of elimination and discovery of the bodies would also affect how quickly the local authorities call for outside help.  Bodies of drug lords in out of the way %28IE not very public%29 places would probobly just get swept under the carpet if possible%3B a dismembered corpse scattered over several blocks in a very visible area %28like South Beach%29 will get much more attention%2Fresources.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A___________________%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5DOf COURSE you wern%27t expecting it%21%21%5B%2Fi%5D NO ONE %5Bi%5Dexpects the %5Bb%5DFannish Inquisition%21%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0AEPU RCW %2386%5B%2Fi%5D 
6|2|4|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|Shadowhavoc||11:44:53|03/20/2002|%3EUntill or unless it becomes clear that a federal statute is being %0D%0A%3Ebroken or the case crosses state lines%2C the best the FBI can do is %0D%0A%3Eoffer scientific support %28print matches%2C trace evidence analysis%2C %0D%0A%3Eetc%29.  Same with the Military... if it doesn%27t involve a crime on one %0D%0A%3Eof their bases%2C they can%27t and won%27t get involved either.  And calling %0D%0A%3Eout the national guard means declaring a state of emergancy%2C and even %0D%0A%3Ethen they%27d be limited to policing the streets%2C not performing an %0D%0A%3Einvestigation%3B although calling out the guard and using them as street %0D%0A%3Epatrol might allow for the use of the rest of the police manpower on %0D%0A%3Ejust this one case most goveners would not do so because of the %0D%0A%3Epolitical impications of such a move. %0D%0A%0D%0AHmm%2C interesting. The Feds would get involved if they changed states%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAnd%2C as others have pointed out%2C the method of elimination and %0D%0A%3Ediscovery of the bodies would also affect how quickly the local %0D%0A%3Eauthorities call for outside help.  Bodies of drug lords in out of the %0D%0A%3Eway %28IE not very public%29 places would probobly just get swept under %0D%0A%3Ethe carpet if possible%3B a dismembered corpse scattered over several %0D%0A%3Eblocks in a very visible area %28like South Beach%29 will get much more %0D%0A%3Eattention%2Fresources. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AMethod%3F Depends on individual VK%27s. Drake is more likely to jump headfirst into a group of Uzi-toting henchmen with just a battle-axe. Also depends where the perpetrators in question have their base of operations.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Maybe they have gold fillings or something%21 This is an adventure%2C damn it%21 I demand financial rewards for acts of homicide%21%22
7|3|6|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|zojojojo||12:07:45|03/20/2002|%3EHmm%2C interesting. The Feds would get involved if they changed states%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AYes. Any crime that crosses state lines in any phase %28commission%2C planning%2C escape%2C etc.%29 becomes a federal for the simple reason that they%27re the only ones with jurisdiction in all areas the crime was committed. It%27s similar on a state level%3A if a crime is committed in multiple towns or counties it becomes a state matter %28this actually depends on the state%2C but I%27m fairly sure that they all work this way%29 because the local %28town%29 cops don%27t have the jurisdiction to run with it.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s possible that the states involved will form a task force%2C or even just cooperate%2C to stop%2Fsolve the crime%2C but not if it%27s a vig who%27s capped more gangsters than the cops can count...%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A-Z %5Bi%5D%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ARabid Crack Turtle 3.14159%0D%0A---%0D%0AWe are Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated.
10|4|7|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|Star Ranger4||22:04:46|03/20/2002|%3E%3EHmm%2C interesting. The Feds would get involved if they changed states%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYes. Any crime that crosses state lines in any phase %28commission%2C %0D%0A%3Eplanning%2C escape%2C etc.%29 becomes a federal for the simple reason that %0D%0A%3Ethey%27re the only ones with jurisdiction in all areas the crime was %0D%0A%3Ecommitted. It%27s similar on a state level%3A if a crime is committed in %0D%0A%3Emultiple towns or counties it becomes a state matter %28this actually %0D%0A%3Edepends on the state%2C but I%27m fairly sure that they all work this way%29 %0D%0A%3Ebecause the local %28town%29 cops don%27t have the jurisdiction to run with %0D%0A%3Eit. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0AIt also depends on the state.  In a state like Texas%2C it would become a case for the Rangers%2C which is a statewide police agency.  In a place like CA%2C it would more likely become a Joint task force%2C since the only state police agency is the Highway Patrol%2C which is more of an enforcement agency than an investigative one.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EIt%27s possible that the states involved will form a task force%2C or even %0D%0A%3Ejust cooperate%2C to stop%2Fsolve the crime%2C but not if it%27s a vig who%27s %0D%0A%3Ecapped more gangsters than the cops can count... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AAgain%2C it depends on the method of elimiation.  Thirty thugs and their boss found stacked up in a deserted warehouse is one thing.  your Vig%27s suddenly cutting someone down in a hail of automatic fire in a crowded area is another... and will get much more attention because of the higher proboblility of innocent people getting hurt.  Don%27t forget that by the time you get to the police chief level%2C the job is just as much political as professional.  You have to worry about what your bosses %28the elected officals%29 and your constituants %28the public%29 think.  They want to feel safe.  The first case doen%27t violate that.  The second does.%0D%0A%0D%0A___________________%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5DOf COURSE you wern%27t expecting it%21%21%5B%2Fi%5D NO ONE %5Bi%5Dexpects the %5Bb%5DFannish Inquisition%21%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0AEPU RCW %2386%5B%2Fi%5D 
11|5|10|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|Shadowhavoc||22:51:57|03/20/2002|%3EAgain%2C it depends on the method of elimiation.  Thirty thugs and their %0D%0A%3Eboss found stacked up in a deserted warehouse is one thing.  your %0D%0A%3EVig%27s suddenly cutting someone down in a hail of automatic fire in a %0D%0A%3Ecrowded area is another... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0AOh hell no%21 Not even the team wildcard would even consider that option even if he was drunk%2C high and in the middle of a beserker rage. Of course%2C that%27s what he%27s like as soon as the fighting starts......%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AThat%27s why they%27re called wildcards.....
12|6|11|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|Star Ranger4||23:10:32|03/20/2002|%3E%3EAgain%2C it depends on the method of elimiation.  Thirty thugs and their %0D%0A%3E%3Eboss found stacked up in a deserted warehouse is one thing.  your %0D%0A%3E%3EVig%27s suddenly cutting someone down in a hail of automatic fire in a %0D%0A%3E%3Ecrowded area is another... %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3EOh hell no%21 Not even the team wildcard would even consider that option %0D%0A%3Eeven if he was drunk%2C high and in the middle of a beserker rage. Of %0D%0A%3Ecourse%2C that%27s what he%27s like as soon as the fighting starts...... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThat%27s why they%27re called wildcards..... %0D%0A%0D%0A%3A%3Agrin%3A%3A  In the end%2C though%2C the amount of resources the cops put into it and how likely they are to call in outside help still comes down to public perception.  As long as the public doesn%27t know about it%2C this sort of thing would get back burnered.  It would only become a high priority if something big and splashy happened that got the public all fired up about them.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A___________________%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5DOf COURSE you wern%27t expecting it%21%21%5B%2Fi%5D NO ONE %5Bi%5Dexpects the %5Bb%5DFannish Inquisition%21%21%5B%2Fb%5D%0D%0AEPU RCW %2386%5B%2Fi%5D 
13|7|12|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|Shadowhavoc||23:21:19|03/20/2002|%3E%3A%3Agrin%3A%3A  In the end%2C though%2C the amount of resources the cops put %0D%0A%3Einto it and how likely they are to call in outside help still comes %0D%0A%3Edown to public perception.  As long as the public doesn%27t know about %0D%0A%3Eit%2C this sort of thing would get back burnered.  It would only become %0D%0A%3Ea high priority if something big and splashy happened that got the %0D%0A%3Epublic all fired up about them. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AHmm%2C ye mean%2C stop leaving the calling cards and whatnot...making sure the public doesn%27t know theres a rash of vigilante-esque crimes%3F I%27m a little sleep-deprived at the moment%2C so I%27m not sure I understand...%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Maybe they have gold fillings or something%21 This is an adventure%2C damn it%21 I demand financial rewards for acts of homicide%21%22
14|8|13|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|Sirrocco||23:37:08|03/24/2002|%3E%3E%3A%3Agrin%3A%3A  In the end%2C though%2C the amount of resources the cops put %0D%0A%3E%3Einto it and how likely they are to call in outside help still comes %0D%0A%3E%3Edown to public perception.  As long as the public doesn%27t know about %0D%0A%3E%3Eit%2C this sort of thing would get back burnered.  It would only become %0D%0A%3E%3Ea high priority if something big and splashy happened that got the %0D%0A%3E%3Epublic all fired up about them. %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EHmm%2C ye mean%2C stop leaving the calling cards and whatnot...making sure %0D%0A%3Ethe public doesn%27t know theres a rash of vigilante-esque crimes%3F I%27m a %0D%0A%3Elittle sleep-deprived at the moment%2C so I%27m not sure I understand... %0D%0A%0D%0AAlso%2C you have to consider that if they%27re really just going after crimelords%2C and they%27ve left a fair amount of evidence%2C they may be picking up some favorable reportage.  In this day and age%2C people read and like Batman.  If they actaully got a reputation as people who were cleaning up the streets%2C then a lot of the voters wouldn%27t want to see them taken down.  On a more local level%2C policemen and women who haven%27t been able to take the same villains down because of their political influence%2C lawyers%2C or skill at hiding evidence%2C might be just as happy to sit back and dwadle on their investigations.  Perhaps some of them might set up a betting pool about the criminal bodycount.  Investigations like that can get deprioritized on a number of levels by a number of people - especially in major cities%2C cops are frequently overworked as it is.  It could lead to some entertaining scenes as various criminals get scared and come to the cops for help.  After all%2C you%27re not in danger unless you are or work for a crimelord%2C and getting protecction inherently involves convincing the powers that be that you%27re in actual danger.  The police force could have %2Afun%2A with that interview.%0D%0A%0D%0AOn the other hand%2C if public opinion gets turned against them%2C then they%27re brutal mass-murderers of the highest degree%2C heavily armed and exceedingly dangerous.  People like that get a lot of unfriendly attention%2C and rather quickly.  It all depends on which newsies hit the story first%2C and how they can spin it%2C and whether any of the others try to spin it back.%0D%0A%0D%0ASirrocco%0D%0AZen Weasel
15|9|14|||||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|Shadowhavoc||01:16:13|03/25/2002|%3EAlso%2C you have to consider that if they%27re really just going after %0D%0A%3Ecrimelords%2C and they%27ve left a fair amount of evidence%2C they may be %0D%0A%3Epicking up some favorable reportage.  In this day and age%2C people read %0D%0A%3Eand like Batman.  If they actaully got a reputation as people who were %0D%0A%3Ecleaning up the streets%2C then a lot of the voters wouldn%27t want to see %0D%0A%3Ethem taken down.  On a more local level%2C policemen and women who %0D%0A%3Ehaven%27t been able to take the same villains down because of their %0D%0A%3Epolitical influence%2C lawyers%2C or skill at hiding evidence%2C might be %0D%0A%3Ejust as happy to sit back and dwadle on their investigations.  Perhaps %0D%0A%3Esome of them might set up a betting pool about the criminal bodycount. %0D%0A%3E Investigations like that can get deprioritized on a number of levels %0D%0A%3Eby a number of people - especially in major cities%2C cops are %0D%0A%3Efrequently overworked as it is.  It could lead to some entertaining %0D%0A%3Escenes as various criminals get scared and come to the cops for help.  %0D%0A%3EAfter all%2C you%27re not in danger unless you are or work for a %0D%0A%3Ecrimelord%2C and getting protecction inherently involves convincing the %0D%0A%3Epowers that be that you%27re in actual danger.  The police force could %0D%0A%3Ehave %2Afun%2A with that interview. %0D%0A%0D%0AAnd I would have fun writing those scenes...it%27s not just crimelords%2C mostly violent criminals of various types. Just think of the worst kind of people imaginable...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EOn the other hand%2C if public opinion gets turned against them%2C then %0D%0A%3Ethey%27re brutal mass-murderers of the highest degree%2C heavily armed and %0D%0A%3Eexceedingly dangerous.  People like that get a lot of unfriendly %0D%0A%3Eattention%2C and rather quickly.  It all depends on which newsies hit %0D%0A%3Ethe story first%2C and how they can spin it%2C and whether any of the %0D%0A%3Eothers try to spin it back. %0D%0A%0D%0AOkay%2C this I definitely understand. Try to gain a good reputation from the citizens...otherwise they%27re pretty much f%40%24%25ed. Good idea%21%0D%0A%0D%0A
16|10|15|||1||RE%3A I%27m an idiot...|BobSchroeck||08:25:36|03/25/2002|%3E%3EOn the other hand%2C if public opinion gets turned against them%2C then %0D%0A%3E%3Ethey%27re brutal mass-murderers of the highest degree%2C heavily armed and %0D%0A%3E%3Eexceedingly dangerous.  People like that get a lot of unfriendly %0D%0A%3E%3Eattention%2C and rather quickly.  It all depends on which newsies hit %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe story first%2C and how they can spin it%2C and whether any of the %0D%0A%3E%3Eothers try to spin it back. %0D%0A%3EOkay%2C this I definitely understand. Try to gain a good reputation from %0D%0A%3Ethe citizens...otherwise they%27re pretty much f%40%24%25ed. Good idea%21 %0D%0A%0D%0AAnd key media folks -- that%27s more important because it%27s a major tool for generating that grass-roots rep.  A media war over them could be an entire subplot -- just imagine the neotiger news fight in %5Bi%5DSOTS%5B%2Fi%5D writ huge with everybody and his pet psychotherapist weighing in with an opinion.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Bob%0D%0A%28Proud member of the Legion of Rabid Crack Weasels%29%0D%0A-------------------%0D%0A%5Bb%5DKosh%3A%5B%2Fb%5D%A0    %22Who are you%3F%22%0D%0A%5Bb%5DMorden%3A%5B%2Fb%5D  %22What do you want%3F%22%0D%0A%5Bb%5DIvanova%3A%5B%2Fb%5D %22I%27ll be in the car.%22