23||0|3092|0|yes
0|0|0|||||And the winner of the console wars is...|CGWolfgang||00:03:40|06/11/2013|A bit leading %28and hyperbole%29 I know...%0D%0A%0D%0AI know there are quite a few gamers on here.  I%27m not sure how many of you are PC%2FX-box%2FPlaystation guys and are following the buildup around the release of the new gen consoles but the buildup to the new consoles has been... interesting.  Mostly centering around online connectivity%2C DRM%2C and used games sale %28and the right of first sale%29%0D%0A%0D%0AAs it stands Xbox has been taking heat within the more core gaming circles because the new X-Box will require%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A-Kinect to be activated at all times%0D%0A-Required to check in every 24 hours %28if it fails to check in it will play for an hour then shut down without allowing you to play any games offline%29%0D%0A-The ability for publishers to regulate second sale of used games.%0D%0A-You can %27gift%27 a game to your friend via XBL if they have been your friend for 30 days and that game can only be %27gifted%27 once.%0D%0A%0D%0AThis%2C and more%2C has had a lot of gamers irate %28an understatement%29 now at Sony%27s E3 press conference they basically said they weren%27t going to bother with any of that.  Basically they went for the jugular.  And with an initial purchase price at %24399 for the PS4 vs %24499 for the XB1 they%27re undercutting Microsoft as well.%0D%0A%0D%0ADoes this mean the death of X-box%3F  No that%27s too improbable even for me to believe.  But as far as Public Relations goes Sony is playing it right.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd this is just Sony rubbing salt in the wound.%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLKdBecUSGP0
1|1|0|||||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|BeardedFerret||05:29:36|06/11/2013|It was absolutely beautiful to watch. Not only did they show Microsoft up at their own game%2C they took the time to slap them around a bit%2C just because they could.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m in awe.
2|1|0|||1||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|laudre||08:52:55|06/11/2013|I wouldn%27t consider it a %22win%22 in the console wars or this generation just yet%2C but ... it was %5Bi%5Dhilariously%5B%2Fi%5D lopsided%2C and reminded me of %22Two hundred ninety-nine US dollars%22 %28though%2C arguably%2C %5Bi%5Dworse%5B%2Fi%5D%2C since there was perfectly predictable backlash to MS%27 plans for the XBone even before Sony went up and danced on the grave MS dug for themselves%29. Certainly%2C Sony has won E3%2C seeing how utterly implausible it is for Nintendo to upstage that press conference %28what with the Wii U already being a known quantity and all%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AHell%2C I%27ve wound up being a PC gamer this generation%2C which I wouldn%27t have predicted back when everything was just rolling out%2C and Sony%27s press conference and announced plans have impressed me so much I%27m now contemplating getting a PS%5Bi%5D3%5B%2Fi%5D. %28We don%27t own an XBox 360%2C and never had a reason to consider one%2C while our Wii has been sitting in a box since we moved last year. It appeared to die one day after a power outage%2C and at the moment we don%27t even own a TV. Our old one was a vintage 1998 monstrously huge CRT that was showing its age%2C so we wound up tossing it when we moved.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately%2C it also brought mortis.%22%0D%0A - Kenneth Boulding
3|2|2|||1||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|twipper||12:03:43|06/11/2013|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-13 AT 12:05 PM (EDT)]%3EI wouldn%27t consider it a %22win%22 in the console wars or this generation %0D%0A%3Ejust yet%2C but ... %0D%0A%0D%0AI think I agree with laudre on this one.  The shear weight of the console market is going to make it difficult for consumers to walk away from either console platform%2C particularly for die-hard fans of console-specific titles.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt might take an eighties-style gaming industry crash to force any kind of real realignment in how the market as a whole approaches game development and delivery. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe Clever Noob%27s guys have some interesting thoughts on this%3A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DXZxXEidtxHk%0D%0A%0D%0ABrian%0D%0A
6|2|2|||||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|CGWolfgang||18:23:30|06/11/2013|Oh don%27t get me wrong the title was just me being childishly snarky and giving way to hyperbole on purpose.  %0D%0A%0D%0AXbox will still sell but whether or not it meets Microsoft%27s sales predictions is definitely up in the air.  I highly doubt they%27ll be able to push their dream number of a billion units sold.  And there are some people who WILL stick with either console just because of brand%2Fexclusive loyalty.  However there are still quite a few murmurings around xbox%2Fgaming communities of people saying %27slag the exclusives%27 and moving on to Playstation. %0D%0A%0D%0AStill its funny I didn%27t think a company could top EA as far as generating bad PR in the gaming community.  Which is even more amusing given EA and Microsoft partnering so heavily this next console cycle.
4|1|0|||||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|MuninsFire||14:37:17|06/11/2013|Yeah%2C it%27s that always-on kinect thing that makes the xbone a loser for me--not to sound completely paranoid%2C but I don%27t feel like having what amounts to an internet-connected bug in my living room.
5|1|0|||||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|CdrMike||18:21:19|06/11/2013|Sony had already been pretty well positioned for yesterday when their press conference months prior had actual game footage%2C while the Microsoft conference had left people with the impression that the XBone was just an expensive DVR with the total game footage being a Call of Duty trailer they claimed was made with the game engine.  So when Sony%27s entire presentation is built around what gamers want%2C which is a solid line-up of titles and no gimmicks tacked on%2C then %24399 was just the killing blow.%0D%0A%0D%0AReally%2C it%27s almost night and day from the last generation%2C where Sony relied totally upon the potential of the PS3%27s hardware to entice gamers while Microsoft sold the 360 as a dedicated gaming platform.  And I can understand to a degree%2C Microsoft seems to view this as the last console generation and wants to get out in front on the coming days of %22all-in-one%22 multimedia systems.  But gaming consoles are supposed to be about games and when you ignore that%2C you%27re going to lose your biggest consumers.%0D%0A%0D%0AThen again%2C the current generation of consoles have about another year of games in them and between now and then%2C both companies will start to offer discounted prices and stripped-down models.  Figure I%27ll wait until at least the next E3 before making a decision.
7|1|0|||1||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|Chris Redfield||18:30:07|06/11/2013|%3EA bit leading %28and hyperbole%29 I know...%0D%0A%0D%0AYay Hyperbole%21  it always gets me riled up%21%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E-Kinect to be activated at all times %0D%0A%0D%0ANo more activated than the microphone and camera in my laptop %28thanks Apple%21%29.  A bit of electrical tape should fix that right up if you%27re so inclined.  Also%2C if you%27re choosing Sony because you have privacy concerns%2C you may want to search for security issues with the Playstation Network %28I%27m just saying%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E-Required to check in every 24 hours %28if it fails to check in it will %0D%0A%3Eplay for an hour then shut down without allowing you to play any games %0D%0A%3Eoffline%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AYou can play offline for the entire 24 hours on your main console.  The one hour time frame is for playing offline on another person%27s console using your library.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E-The ability for publishers to regulate second sale of used games. %0D%0A%0D%0AThe PC world has seen this already in the form of %22activation codes%22.  I%27m not too happy about that%2C but I don%27t think any console manufacturer has a whole lot to gain in getting into the fight of what can and can%27t be sold second hand.%0D%0A%0D%0ABlizzard has arguably done very will with a game model that requires gamers to be signed-in and restricts second hand sales%2C so I%27m not sure that either of the above points are particularly sticky with consumers at the end of the day %28provided enjoyable game play is there%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E-You can %27gift%27 a game to your friend via XBL if they have been your %0D%0A%3Efriend for 30 days and that game can only be %27gifted%27 once. %0D%0A%0D%0AThis is a bullet point from Microsoft that is in severe need of an interpreter.  But I think it comes down to being able to cede your authorization to play a game permanently to a friend on XBox live after you%27re done playing it.  I don%27t think they mean gift like buy for them like the Wii does.%0D%0A%0D%0AAll of it stems from what I think is the most super awesome aspect of the console anyway.  You don%27t have to have the freaking disc in the system to play the game that you%27ve already installed in the system%21%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThis%2C and more%2C has had a lot of gamers irate %28an understatement%29 now %0D%0A%3Eat Sony%27s E3 press conference they basically said they weren%27t going %0D%0A%3Eto bother with any of that.  Basically they went for the jugular.  And %0D%0A%3Ewith an initial purchase price at %24399 for the PS4 vs %24499 for the XB1 %0D%0A%3Ethey%27re undercutting Microsoft as well. %0D%0A%0D%0AI think the price difference is what is really going to make the difference between the two %28and also what will bolster WiiU sales come Christmastime%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EDoes this mean the death of X-box%3F  No that%27s too improbable even for %0D%0A%3Eme to believe.  But as far as Public Relations goes Sony is playing it %0D%0A%3Eright. %0D%0A%0D%0ADefinitely%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAnd this is just Sony rubbing salt in the wound. %0D%0A%3Ehttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLKdBecUSGP0 %0D%0A%0D%0AAll my points aside%2C there wasn%27t anything in the Xbox presentation that got me really excited for the new system%2C but I%27m not really the target demographic anymore.  Heck%2C I only have an Xbox 360 now because my girlfriend was working phone support for them%2C and I%27ve stuck with it because thats where all my Mass Effect saves are.%0D%0A%0D%0A-------------------------------------%0D%0AChris can%27t handle chemicals
8|2|7|||||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|CGWolfgang||22:42:17|06/11/2013|%3ENo more activated than the microphone and camera in my laptop %28thanks %0D%0A%3EApple%21%29.  A bit of electrical tape should fix that right up if you%27re %0D%0A%3Eso inclined.  Also%2C if you%27re choosing Sony because you have privacy %0D%0A%3Econcerns%2C you may want to search for security issues with the %0D%0A%3EPlaystation Network %28I%27m just saying%29. %0D%0A%0D%0ATo tell you the truth privacy isn%27t a game breaking concern although I don%27t use webcams and unplug my microphone from my PC.  I only bring it up because it does concern some people%2C and more importantly is kind of pointless to force people to use it.  Given that the Kinect for 360 was essentially one big beta test I%27m not sold that Kinect 2.0 will be reliable enough to do everything their claiming until the end of the XB1%27s console life.  And even if it can reliably do what it was showcased to do its markedly different than what Kinect was originally purposed.  I%27m lazy but not so lazy that I need an expensive voice activated remote.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3E-Required to check in every 24 hours %28if it fails to check in it will %0D%0A%3E%3Eplay for an hour then shut down without allowing you to play any games %0D%0A%3E%3Eoffline%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYou can play offline for the entire 24 hours on your main console.  %0D%0A%3EThe one hour time frame is for playing offline on another person%27s %0D%0A%3Econsole using your library. %0D%0A%0D%0AThis is the absolute deal breaker for me.  I can go months where the only internet connection is worse than dialup and plugging in my xbox to %27check in%27 will get me in loads of trouble.  That essentially turns the console into a giant paperweight for months on end.  I know I%27m a niche market but I still want some value for my money. %0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3E-The ability for publishers to regulate second sale of used games. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThe PC world has seen this already in the form of %22activation codes%22.  %0D%0A%3EI%27m not too happy about that%2C but I don%27t think any console %0D%0A%3Emanufacturer has a whole lot to gain in getting into the fight of what %0D%0A%3Ecan and can%27t be sold second hand. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EBlizzard has arguably done very will with a game model that requires %0D%0A%3Egamers to be signed-in and restricts second hand sales%2C so I%27m not %0D%0A%3Esure that either of the above points are particularly sticky with %0D%0A%3Econsumers at the end of the day %28provided enjoyable game play is %0D%0A%3Ethere%29. %0D%0A%0D%0AThis is a very good point and this is exactly where the console market is eventually going to head.  But for PC the bulk of their sales are digital where the bulk of console sales are still physical copies.  I think the big difference between sony and Microsoft%27s approaches is that Microsoft is looking to cut off the resale of games and force users to buy new or buy digital where it looks like Sony is using this console cycle to wean everyone off physical and get the bulk of the game sales digital like PC.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3E-You can %27gift%27 a game to your friend via XBL if they have been your %0D%0A%3E%3Efriend for 30 days and that game can only be %27gifted%27 once. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThis is a bullet point from Microsoft that is in severe need of an %0D%0A%3Einterpreter.  But I think it comes down to being able to cede your %0D%0A%3Eauthorization to play a game permanently to a friend on XBox live %0D%0A%3Eafter you%27re done playing it.  I don%27t think they mean gift like buy %0D%0A%3Efor them like the Wii does. %0D%0A%0D%0AFrom what I gather it looks like %28at publishers discretion%29 you can %27gift%27 a game to someone else permanently or sell it.  Basically all games will have a one time transfer of license.  However I still don%27t know how the used game fee will work.  Probably going to be like the online pass thing.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAll my points aside%2C there wasn%27t anything in the Xbox presentation %0D%0A%3Ethat got me really excited for the new system%2C but I%27m not really the %0D%0A%3Etarget demographic anymore.  Heck%2C I only have an Xbox 360 now because %0D%0A%3Emy girlfriend was working phone support for them%2C and I%27ve stuck with %0D%0A%3Eit because thats where all my Mass Effect saves are. %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m largely a Xbox gamer but like I said its only because I tend to need something that I can take with me that doesn%27t need internet to function.  Which is sad because I love Halo and I think with EA going partners with Microsoft Mirrors Edge 2 is going to be an XB1 exclusive.  Really sad about that.
10|3|8|||1||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|Chris Redfield||10:36:52|06/12/2013|%3ETo tell you the truth privacy isn%27t a game breaking concern although I %0D%0A%3Edon%27t use webcams and unplug my microphone from my PC.  I only bring %0D%0A%3Eit up because it does concern some people%2C and more importantly is %0D%0A%3Ekind of pointless to force people to use it.  Given that the Kinect %0D%0A%3Efor 360 was essentially one big beta test I%27m not sold that Kinect 2.0 %0D%0A%3Ewill be reliable enough to do everything their claiming until the end %0D%0A%3Eof the XB1%27s console life.  And even if it can reliably do what it was %0D%0A%3Eshowcased to do its markedly different than what Kinect was originally %0D%0A%3Epurposed.  I%27m lazy but not so lazy that I need an expensive voice %0D%0A%3Eactivated remote. %0D%0A%0D%0ATo be honest%2C I%27d be pretty surprised if it wasn%27t just as much an accessory as the current Kinect meaning you could unplug it from the system entirely %28just like you can the sensor bar for the Wii%2C although that can make it a bit less functional%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThis is the absolute deal breaker for me.  I can go months where the %0D%0A%3Eonly internet connection is worse than dialup and plugging in my xbox %0D%0A%3Eto %27check in%27 will get me in loads of trouble.  That essentially turns %0D%0A%3Ethe console into a giant paperweight for months on end.  I know I%27m a %0D%0A%3Eniche market but I still want some value for my money. %0D%0A%0D%0AThats a really valid point%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThis is a very good point and this is exactly where the console market %0D%0A%3Eis eventually going to head.  But for PC the bulk of their sales are %0D%0A%3Edigital where the bulk of console sales are still physical copies.  I %0D%0A%3Ethink the big difference between sony and Microsoft%27s approaches is %0D%0A%3Ethat Microsoft is looking to cut off the resale of games and force %0D%0A%3Eusers to buy new or buy digital where it looks like Sony is using this %0D%0A%3Econsole cycle to wean everyone off physical and get the bulk of the %0D%0A%3Egame sales digital like PC. %0D%0A%0D%0AI haven%27t gotten the impression that Microsoft is trying to cut off the resale of games.  I think they%27re trying to walk the fine line between game accessibility and the publishers paranoia over piracy.  But like I said before%2C I%27m really excited by the concept of not having to switch out discs to play games I%27ve installed on my system.%0D%0A%0D%0A-------------------------------------%0D%0AChris can%27t handle HALO
9|2|7|||1||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|laudre||07:44:52|06/12/2013|%3EYou can play offline for the entire 24 hours on your main console.  %0D%0A%3EThe one hour time frame is for playing offline on another person%27s %0D%0A%3Econsole using your library. %0D%0A%0D%0AMicrosoft has had real issues with messaging here. Case in point%3A%0D%0Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DesdymuU6jKc%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThe PC world has seen this already in the form of %22activation codes%22.  %0D%0A%3EI%27m not too happy about that%2C but I don%27t think any console %0D%0A%3Emanufacturer has a whole lot to gain in getting into the fight of what %0D%0A%3Ecan and can%27t be sold second hand. %0D%0A%0D%0ABut consoles aren%27t PCs%2C and we%27ve had %5Bi%5Ddecades%5B%2Fi%5D of building a different set of expectations around them. If they want to get us away from those expectations%2C they need to get us to actively want to migrate away from the technology that it goes with %28carts%2Fdiscs%29 and to technology that supports the %22buy once%2C own it forever%22 model %28i.e. digital delivery%29. Nintendo%27s actually managing to do it with the 3DS as that console matures.%0D%0A%0D%0AFurther%2C if I%27m being offered a console that has all the limitations of%2C say%2C Steam%2C and then some more limitations on top of that%2C %5Bi%5Dand%5B%2Fi%5D has no evidence of the %5Bi%5Dadvantages%5B%2Fi%5D of Steam%2C when I%27ve already got a PC that has Steam%3F I%27m not going to bother to buy into that console. Unless you%27re dying for one of the true exclusives %28i.e. not also coming to PC or any other platform%2C ever%29%2C you%27d most likely be better off building a media-center PC. The lack of backwards-compatibility for the 360 is the real kicker.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately%2C it also brought mortis.%22%0D%0A - Kenneth Boulding
11|3|9|||1||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|Chris Redfield||11:02:01|06/12/2013|%3EBut consoles aren%27t PCs%2C and we%27ve had %5Bi%5Ddecades%5B%2Fi%5D of building a %0D%0A%3Edifferent set of expectations around them. If they want to get us away %0D%0A%3Efrom those expectations%2C they need to get us to actively want to %0D%0A%3Emigrate away from the technology that it goes with %28carts%2Fdiscs%29 and %0D%0A%3Eto technology that supports the %22buy once%2C own it forever%22 model %28i.e. %0D%0A%3Edigital delivery%29. Nintendo%27s actually managing to do it with the 3DS %0D%0A%3Eas that console matures. %0D%0A%0D%0AI am totally done with discs on consoles.  I nearly had to buy a second copy of Mass Effect because disc 2 walked away and I couldn%27t play the game even though I had installed the content to hard drive.  I also think that Microsoft has done a good job with Live Arcade getting people to buy smaller games digitally on a console%2C but you%27re right that the general population may not be in the digital mindset yet.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EFurther%2C if I%27m being offered a console that has all the limitations %0D%0A%3Eof%2C say%2C Steam%2C and then some more limitations on top of that%2C %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5Dand%5B%2Fi%5D has no evidence of the %5Bi%5Dadvantages%5B%2Fi%5D of Steam%2C when %0D%0A%3EI%27ve already got a PC that has Steam%3F I%27m not going to bother to buy %0D%0A%3Einto that console. %0D%0A%0D%0AWhich advantages of Steam%3F  The implication from what I%27ve read seems to be that your game library will be able to move to different consoles with you %28although I%27m sure it won%27t be as seamless as Steam%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EUnless you%27re dying for one of the true exclusives %0D%0A%3E%28i.e. not also coming to PC or any other platform%2C ever%29%2C you%27d most %0D%0A%3Elikely be better off building a media-center PC. The lack of %0D%0A%3Ebackwards-compatibility for the 360 is the real kicker. %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27d be hard pressed to buy a PC that will play games as well as an XBox1 for %24500 %28at least not one running Windows%2C which would further restrict what games are available%29%2C but it might be worth investing a little bit more into having an upgradable system connected to the media center.%0D%0A%0D%0A-------------------------------------%0D%0AChris can%27t handle graphics cards
12|4|11|||1||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|laudre||13:48:46|06/12/2013|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-13 AT 01:51 PM (EDT)]%3EI am totally done with discs on consoles.  I nearly had to buy a %0D%0A%3Esecond copy of Mass Effect because disc 2 walked away and I couldn%27t %0D%0A%3Eplay the game even though I had installed the content to hard drive.  %0D%0A%3EI also think that Microsoft has done a good job with Live Arcade %0D%0A%3Egetting people to buy smaller games digitally on a console%2C but you%27re %0D%0A%3Eright that the general population may not be in the digital mindset %0D%0A%3Eyet. %0D%0A%0D%0AOh%2C no argument here%2C in that there are distinct advantages to digital delivery.  I%27m not saying that discs%2Fcarts are an inherent and indelible part of any game platform %28tablet%2Fmobile OSes%2C Steam and its pale shadows%2C and the respective console digital delivery markets all make it abundantly clear%29%2C but that we%27re long accustomed to the physical medium taking on the role of authentication and proof of ownership in dedicated %28for appropriate values of %22dedicated%2C%22 given the progressive feature bloat%29%2C and with it comes the entire used-game ecosystem and its associated price fluidity. The trick is to make the advantages of digital delivery and ownership %28e.g. arbitrary access to one%27s library on a multitude of platforms%29 outweigh the advantages of%2C say%2C rental%2C or the used-game ecosystem. Digital delivery platforms are very nice carrots%2C to be sure%2C but MS%27 stated plans for the XBone%2C and %28more importantly%29 their messaging about it%2C shows a whole lot more stick and not much new carrot to make up for it%2C so to speak.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EWhich advantages of Steam%3F  The implication from what I%27ve read seems %0D%0A%3Eto be that your game library will be able to move to different %0D%0A%3Econsoles with you %28although I%27m sure it won%27t be as seamless as %0D%0A%3ESteam%29. %0D%0A%0D%0AFor one%2C I can set Steam to offline mode arbitrarily%2C and if there%27s a set space of time in which I have to %22check in%22%2C I haven%27t found it yet. I haven%27t yet tried to play a game that has internal online functionality %28e.g. DRM%2C multiplayer%29 with Steam in offline mode%2C but if I want to%2C say%2C play %5Bi%5DAnalogue%3A a Hate Story%5B%2Fi%5D on my laptop %28in offline mode%29 while my wife plays %5Bi%5DDeus Ex%3A Human Resources%5B%2Fi%5D on my tower %28since the license is linked to my account%2C not hers%29. It does not%2C to my knowledge%2C violate terms-of-use to do so %28though%2C full disclaimer%2C I%27ve never actually done this%2C I just know that I can%29%2C and I hope that one day Steam allows us to have the same account logged on at more than one location simultaneously as long as we%27re not trying to play the same game. %28Not holding my breath on that one%2C mind.%29%0D%0A%0D%0AEDIT%3A Oh%2C and I completely forgot to mention the sheer genius that is a Steam sale. The vast majority of my %28rather large and mostly-backlogged%29 Steam library was purchased at some smallish fraction of the original retail price. I have no reason to believe I%27ll be able to snap up similar bargains on the XBone.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI%27d be hard pressed to buy a PC that will play games as well as an %0D%0A%3EXBox1 for %24500 %28at least not one running Windows%2C which would further %0D%0A%3Erestrict what games are available%29%2C but it might be worth investing a %0D%0A%3Elittle bit more into having an upgradable system connected to the %0D%0A%3Emedia center. %0D%0A%0D%0AHonestly%2C because of the sheer length of time this console generation has lasted%2C PC gaming has gotten really cheap. Sure%2C if you%27re building it from scratch%2C you might have trouble hitting that %24500 price point right around the time the XBone launches%2C but you%27re also getting something with considerably more functionality and greater expandibility%2C actual backwards compatibility %28which the XBone notably lacks%29%2C and doesn%27t require a special paid service %28XBL%29 to do online multiplayer. Additionally%2C with the way PC hardware develops%2C within a year of the XBone%27s launch%2C I%27ll be able to build a Windows machine that%27ll be just as powerful for under %24500%2C and a year after that%2C a %24500 machine will be considerably %5Bi%5Dmore%5B%2Fi%5D powerful.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m not saying that nobody should buy one %28I%27m all for competition in this space%2C and%2C unfortunately%2C the Wii U will not be real competition for the PS4%2C even if the 3DS is burying everything now despite its rocky start%29%2C I%27m just saying that Microsoft is utterly and completely failing to make any sort of case for choosing the XBone over the PS4. I%27m not sure they%27re making much of a case for buying an XBone over a Wii U or 3DS%2C for that matter.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately%2C it also brought mortis.%22%0D%0A - Kenneth Boulding
13|5|12|||1||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|Chris Redfield||14:49:26|06/12/2013|%3EFor one%2C I can set Steam to offline mode arbitrarily%2C and if there%27s a %0D%0A%3Eset space of time in which I have to %22check in%22%2C I haven%27t found it %0D%0A%3Eyet. I haven%27t yet tried to play a game that has internal online %0D%0A%3Efunctionality %28e.g. DRM%2C multiplayer%29 with Steam in offline mode%2C but %0D%0A%3Eif I want to%2C say%2C play %5Bi%5DAnalogue%3A a Hate Story%5B%2Fi%5D on my laptop %28in %0D%0A%3Eoffline mode%29 while my wife plays %5Bi%5DDeus Ex%3A Human Resources%5B%2Fi%5D on %0D%0A%3Emy tower %28since the license is linked to my account%2C not hers%29. It %0D%0A%3Edoes not%2C to my knowledge%2C violate terms-of-use to do so %28though%2C full %0D%0A%3Edisclaimer%2C I%27ve never actually done this%2C I just know that I can%29%2C %0D%0A%3Eand I hope that one day Steam allows us to have the same account %0D%0A%3Elogged on at more than one location simultaneously as long as we%27re %0D%0A%3Enot trying to play the same game. %28Not holding my breath on that one%2C %0D%0A%3Emind.%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AFrom what I was reading from Larry Hyrb%27s blog posts yesterday%2C the XBox1 will have some sort of family feature that will allow up to 10 people to access the same game library simultaneously.  If that pans out%2C it would be pretty awesome%2C but I%27m not sure its going to pan out as described.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EEDIT%3A Oh%2C and I completely forgot to mention the sheer genius that is %0D%0A%3Ea Steam sale. The vast majority of my %28rather large and %0D%0A%3Emostly-backlogged%29 Steam library was purchased at some smallish %0D%0A%3Efraction of the original retail price. I have no reason to believe %0D%0A%3EI%27ll be able to snap up similar bargains on the XBone. %0D%0A%0D%0AThey do OK with their Summer of Arcade stuff each year%2C but it isn%27t as robust as the multiples of Steam sales that happen throughout the year.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EHonestly%2C because of the sheer length of time this console generation %0D%0A%3Ehas lasted%2C PC gaming has gotten really cheap. Sure%2C if you%27re %0D%0A%3Ebuilding it from scratch%2C you might have trouble hitting that %24500 %0D%0A%3Eprice point right around the time the XBone launches%2C but you%27re also %0D%0A%3Egetting something with considerably more functionality and greater %0D%0A%3Eexpandibility%2C actual backwards compatibility %28which the XBone notably %0D%0A%3Elacks%29%2C and doesn%27t require a special paid service %28XBL%29 to do online %0D%0A%3Emultiplayer. Additionally%2C with the way PC hardware develops%2C within a %0D%0A%3Eyear of the XBone%27s launch%2C I%27ll be able to build a Windows machine %0D%0A%3Ethat%27ll be just as powerful for under %24500%2C and a year after that%2C a %0D%0A%3E%24500 machine will be considerably %5Bi%5Dmore%5B%2Fi%5D powerful. %0D%0A%0D%0AAt least once in that 2 year from launch time frame all the consoles will have come down in price too %28and if the lifespan of individual units from this last generation is an indication%2C there is a good chance one will need to be replaced%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI%27m not saying that nobody should buy one %28I%27m all for competition in %0D%0A%3Ethis space%2C and%2C unfortunately%2C the Wii U will not be real competition %0D%0A%3Efor the PS4%2C even if the 3DS is burying everything now despite its %0D%0A%3Erocky start%29%2C I%27m just saying that Microsoft is utterly and completely %0D%0A%3Efailing to make any sort of case for choosing the XBone over the PS4. %0D%0A%3EI%27m not sure they%27re making much of a case for buying an XBone over a %0D%0A%3EWii U or 3DS%2C for that matter. %0D%0A%0D%0AI completely agree that Microsoft has failed in their messaging.%0D%0A%0D%0A-------------------------------------%0D%0AChris can%27t handle messaging
14|1|0|||||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|BLUE||18:30:38|06/12/2013|Microsoft has stated%2C through several execs at this point%2C %22We have a product for people who can%27t access the internet%2C its called XBox 360%22. The sheer arrogance involved in this statement...yeah%2C I%27m done with Microsoft. I%27ll miss Halo 5%2C but that%27s about all. Destiny%2C FFXV%2C and Kingdom Hearts 3 are all going to be PS4%2C and that gets my money right there.
16|2|14|||1||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|Chris Redfield||12:22:44|06/13/2013|%3EMicrosoft has stated%2C through several execs at this point%2C %22We have a %0D%0A%3Eproduct for people who can%27t access the internet%2C its called XBox %0D%0A%3E360%22. The sheer arrogance involved in this statement...yeah%2C I%27m done %0D%0A%3Ewith Microsoft. I%27ll miss Halo 5%2C but that%27s about all. Destiny%2C FFXV%2C %0D%0A%3Eand Kingdom Hearts 3 are all going to be PS4%2C and that gets my money %0D%0A%3Eright there. %0D%0A%0D%0AThey%27re just channeling their inner Steve Jobs%3F  No... even that doesn%27t work here.  They%27ve pretty much gone from bad messaging to actively trying to alienate people.%0D%0A%0D%0AOh well.%0D%0A%0D%0A-------------------------------------%0D%0AChris can%27t handle messaging
15|1|0|||||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|CdrMike||05:17:06|06/13/2013|And the hits keep on coming%2C as apparently Microsoft has decided that Asia%2C which is presently their biggest growth market and where the 360 is leading the pack%2C won%27t be seeing the XBox One until late next year.  Of note is that that delivery date doesn%27t include Japan%2C which is presently listed as %22to be decided.%22%0D%0A%0D%0ASo the region-locked system that won%27t be available in some of the biggest growth markets for electronic goods until late next year is going up against the system that isn%27t region-locked%2C will likely be selling globally by the same time period%2C and will be doing so for 20%25 cheaper.  I%27m pretty sure this fits TVTropes definition of a Curb-Stomp Battle.
17|1|0|||||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|Croaker||13:47:05|06/20/2013|Just to show how much I care about the console biz%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ve just finally hooked up and tested the X-Box a friend gave me for Christmas.%0D%0A%0D%0AYes%2C X-Box. Not 360%2C not Wii. First-run X-Box. %0D%0A%0D%0AAnyone recommend any games for it%2C have any good ones they%27d care to dump on me%3F
18|2|17|||1||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|pjmoyer||14:05:15|06/20/2013|%3EI%27ve just finally hooked up and tested the X-Box a friend gave me for %0D%0A%3EChristmas. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYes%2C X-Box. Not 360%2C not Wii. First-run X-Box. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAnyone recommend any games for it%2C have any good ones they%27d care to %0D%0A%3Edump on me%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AHoo boy.  Good luck getting original Xbox games at this stage%2C though there%27s a few that were playable on Xbox and 360 that would still be worth it%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AHalo%3A Combat Evolved%0D%0AHalo 2%0D%0ALego Star Wars%0D%0ALego Star Wars II%3A The Original Trilogy%0D%0AStar Wars Knights of the Old Republic%0D%0A%0D%0AReally%2C look at http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FList_of_Xbox_games and see if anything else tweaks your fancy%2C but there%27s not going to be much that%27ll only work on Xbox these days.%0D%0A%0D%0A--- Philip%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%223%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D2 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%0D%0A%5Btr%5D%5Btd width%3D%2265%22%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie.org%2F%7Eaerianne%2Ffoth.img%2Fgaia_ser_philip_saber.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%0D%0A%5Btd%5D%5Bfont color%3D%22%230000dd%22%5DPhilip J. Moyer%5B%2Ffont%5D%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%230000aa%22 size%3D-2%5DContributing Writer%2C Editor and Artist %28and Moderator%29 -- Eyrie Productions%2C Unlimited%5B%2Ffont%5D%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%230000aa%22 size%3D-2%5DCEO of MTS%2C High Poobah Of Artwork%2C and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios%5B%2Ffont%5D%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22%230044aa%22 size%3D-1%5D%5Bi%5D%22Insert Pithy Comment Here%22%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd width%3D%2265%22%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie.org%2F%7Eaerianne%2Ffoth.img%2Fgaia_aeri_coat_sword.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%0D%0A%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%223%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D1 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D
19|1|0|||||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|SmkViper||10:08:34|06/21/2013|For the record%2C MS %28as of earlier this week%29 has %5Blink%3Anews.xbox.com%2F2013%2F06%2Fupdate%7Cofficially backtracked%5D on the phoning home and region locking. You will simply need to hook the XB1 up to the internet once when you unpack the box to download a day 1 patch and after that be offline forever.%0D%0A%0D%0AThis of course means you can trade%2Frent%2Fre-sell%2Fetc your disc-based games just like you can today %28or with the PS4%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AThis %5Bi%5Dalso%5B%2Fi%5D means you will no longer be able to share%2Ftrade games digitally and you will have to have the disc in the tray to play a disc-based game.%0D%0A%0D%0AAlso%2C Kinect can be turned off %28even have the %22XBox On%22 listening disabled%29%2C though it still needs to be plugged in. Just think of it as your laptop camera which is always connected but can be disabled. %28%5Blink%3Anews.xbox.com%2F2013%2F06%2Fprivacy%7Csource%5D%29%0D%0A%0D%0APersonally I%27m disappointed in the features they%27re removing%2C but not to the point that I want to have my parole company sign off every day on what I can and can%27t play. And hopefully they can bring back sharing%2Ftrading for digital purchases %28where they can enforce the one-copy rule%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s still a long time til November%2C after all.
20|2|19|||1||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|laudre||10:15:36|06/21/2013|%3EAnd hopefully they can bring back %0D%0A%3Esharing%2Ftrading for digital purchases %28where they can enforce the %0D%0A%3Eone-copy rule%29. %0D%0A%0D%0AReportedly %28take it with appropriate doses of salt%29 the %22sharing%22 thing was really more of an extended demo than actual sharing.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately%2C it also brought mortis.%22%0D%0A - Kenneth Boulding
21|2|19|||||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|Rabe||03:49:55|06/22/2013|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Jun-22-13 AT 04:42 PM (EDT)]%3EFor the record%2C MS %28as of earlier this week%29 has %0D%0A%3E%5Blink%3Anews.xbox.com%2F2013%2F06%2Fupdate%7Cofficially backtracked%5D on the %0D%0A%3Ephoning home and region locking. You will simply need to hook the XB1 %0D%0A%3Eup to the internet once when you unpack the box to download a day 1 %0D%0A%3Epatch and after that be offline forever. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThis of course means you can trade%2Frent%2Fre-sell%2Fetc your disc-based %0D%0A%3Egames just like you can today %28or with the PS4%29. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThis %5Bi%5Dalso%5B%2Fi%5D means you will no longer be able to share%2Ftrade games %0D%0A%3Edigitally and you will have to have the disc in the tray to play a %0D%0A%3Edisc-based game. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAlso%2C Kinect can be turned off %28even have the %22XBox On%22 listening %0D%0A%3Edisabled%29%2C though it still needs to be plugged in. Just think of it as %0D%0A%3Eyour laptop camera which is always connected but can be disabled. %0D%0A%3E%28%5Blink%3Anews.xbox.com%2F2013%2F06%2Fprivacy%7Csource%5D%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EPersonally I%27m disappointed in the features they%27re removing%2C but not %0D%0A%3Eto the point that I want to have my parole company sign off every day %0D%0A%3Eon what I can and can%27t play. And hopefully they can bring back %0D%0A%3Esharing%2Ftrading for digital purchases %28where they can enforce the %0D%0A%3Eone-copy rule%29. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EIt%27s still a long time til November%2C after all. %0D%0AStill not buying it. Just you wait and see. The second the corporate masters think their install base is large enough%2C BOOM Rouge boomer... I mean firmware... yeah firmware update and all the old %22features%22 are back.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf MS wants me to by a next gen console from them they%27ll need to scrap this hardware and make an actually next GEN gaming machine and not a Elint superpack for my nonsmart TV
22|3|21|||||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|SmkViper||09:48:01|06/24/2013|%3EStill not buying it. Just you wait and see. The second the corporate %0D%0A%3Emasters think their install base is large enough%2C BOOM Rouge boomer... %0D%0A%3EI mean firmware... yeah firmware update and all the old %22features%22 are %0D%0A%3Eback. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EIf MS wants me to by a next gen console from them they%27ll need to %0D%0A%3Escrap this hardware and make an actually next GEN gaming machine and %0D%0A%3Enot a Elint superpack for my nonsmart TV %0D%0A%0D%0AVote with your wallet - best thing a customer can do. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0AAlso not sure why you trust Sony more then MS - Sony was one of the %22pioneers%22 with DRM rootkits on your PC and %22online passes%22 for console games. No one%27s hands are clean in this industry.%0D%0A%0D%0APlus I%27m not sure where you%27re getting your stats%2C but the XB1 and PS4 are %28almost%29 identical in terms of hardware - and both are far more powerful then the current gen. They%27re about as next gen as you can get without getting a PC.
23|3|21|||1||RE%3A And the winner of the console wars is...|Chris Redfield||12:28:01|06/24/2013|%3EStill not buying it. Just you wait and see. The second the corporate %0D%0A%3Emasters think their install base is large enough%2C BOOM Rouge boomer... %0D%0A%0D%0AThe rouge ones are the sexaroids%2C right%3F  I imagine sales will go up with a feature like that%21%0D%0A%0D%0A-------------------------------------%0D%0AChris can%27t handle rogues