4||0|1929|0|yes
0|0|0|||1||Unintentional offenses|laudre||16:44:29|08/07/2013|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Aug-07-13 AT 04:44 PM (EDT)]I tried to post this as a comment over in %5Blink%3Az-gryphon.livejournal.com%2F831853.html%7CG%27s LJ%5D%2C but it kept rejecting it as spam. I figure it%27s worth saying%2C though%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AYou%27re quite correct that there%27s been a lot of changes to social discourse over the past several years. It%27s meant that a lot of things that marginalized people just sort of rolled with%2C or bore with gritted teeth... they don%27t want to have to do that any more. It also means that a lot of things that the privileged group -- here in the US%2C that%27s %28functionally%29 heterosexual%2C cisgendered%2C white males -- once thought were acceptable and just jokes %28or whatever%29 have been revealed as%2C well%2C not.%0D%0A%0D%0AYou didn%27t meant to cause offense. Sure. We get that. We know that. But we%27re putting down a line and saying we%27re going to stop pretending we%27re okay with %24OFFENSIVE_THING. %28In my case%2C that%27s %22jokes%22 related to gender identity and sexual identity%2C in terms of personal stuff.%29 You don%27t have to explain that it was never a problem before%2C because we know you never knew it was a problem before. %5Blink%3Aweeklysift.com%2F2012%2F09%2F10%2Fthe-distress-of-the-privileged%2F%7CYou just want your dinner%5D%2C so to speak.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf you want to save those friendships%3F Just apologize. Try to understand that it was offensive%2C and why%2C even if it was not your intention to offend.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately%2C it also brought mortis.%22%0D%0A - Kenneth Boulding
1|1|0|||1||RE%3A Unintentional offenses|Gryphon||17:13:24|08/07/2013|Well%2C see%2C that%27s mainly what confuses me%2C is that it wasn%27t about any of those things.  I%27m not COMPLETELY out of touch like my father who does not understand why everyone doesn%27t laugh at e.g. raghead jokes any longer.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut hey%2C thanks for assuming.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D
2|2|1|||1||RE%3A Unintentional offenses|laudre||17:23:49|08/07/2013|%3EBut hey%2C thanks for assuming. %0D%0A%0D%0AI made no assumptions. I don%27t know what happened%2C nor do I expect you to talk about it. The point is that it you didn%27t know it was offensive%2C but you still caused offense. Apologize%2C learn from it%2C and move on. %0D%0A%0D%0A%22Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately%2C it also brought mortis.%22%0D%0A - Kenneth Boulding
3|2|1|||1||RE%3A Unintentional offenses|Mercutio||21:00:54|08/07/2013|Huh. I didn%27t know Ben -had- a livejournal. Go figure.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf I%27m not out of line commenting here rather than there%2C as I haven%27t glanced at my LJ account since the Zutara Shipping Wars of 2008%2C I%27ll take a stab at unpacking %22mansplaining%22. Fair warning%3B there%27s no hard and fast definition of it%2C it%27s kind of still being worked out.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s a bit more complex than just not being That Guy. It%27s a specific behavior having to do with privilege. I know you know exactly what privilege is%3B I%27ve seen you use the phrase %22Well%2C that%27s mighty white of you.%22%0D%0A%0D%0ABasically%2C mansplaining involves a dude explaining to a lady %28or ladies%29 something that 1%29 they already know%2C and are in fact intimately familiar with%2C in a manner that implies he is correcting some tragic gap in their education%2C or 2%29 trying to explain away something that said lady or ladies have a problem with%2C usually in a condescending and paternalistic way.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf you%27ve ever met%2C say%2C an IT guy who assumes that every man who comes to him for help has a certain base level of technical knowledge%2C but whenever it%27s a woman%2C he launches into an explanation of how to use the mouse and what capslock does%3F That explanation is mansplaining.%0D%0A%0D%0ASimilarly%2C if you%27ve ever met somebody who is prepared to explain at great length %5Bb%5Dto women%5B%2Fb%5D how%2C say%2C catcalling is really just a compliment men give to women and not a form of harassment%2C no really%2C he can prove that scientifically most women like it%2C you guys%2C he has charts and knows about evolutionary psychology and everything%2C that dude is also mansplaining.%0D%0A%0D%0ARule of thumb%3A if a conversation seems at all problematic to you%2C try and envision it happening any other way at all than a man explaining stuff to a woman. If you absolutely can%27t%2C good chance mansplaining is happening.%0D%0A%0D%0A-Merc%0D%0AKeep Rat
4|2|1|||1||RE%3A Unintentional offenses|Offsides||13:46:54|08/08/2013|Unfortunately%2C it%27s everyone%27s right to be offended by anything and everything%2C and there%27s nothing you can do if they choose to go that route.  If you want to try and salvage the relationship%2C tell them exactly how you feel and see if they%27re willing to meet you half way.  Either the want the same thing%2C and you%27ll eventually work it out%2C or they don%27t%2C in which case there%27s nothing you can do and it%27s not worth the energy.%0D%0A%0D%0AThis is why I try so hard not to offend unintentionally - it can be a real bear to fix things when there%27s seemingly no common ground.  %28OTOH%2C I have no problem offending someone intentionally if they give me reason to...%29%0D%0A%0D%0AGood luck%21%0D%0A%0D%0AOffsides%0D%0A%0D%0A%26%2391%3B...%26%2393%3B in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.%0D%0A    -- David Ben Gurion%0D%0AEPU RCW %23%26pi%3B%0D%0A%23include %3Cstdsig.h%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A