15||0|823|0|yes
0|0|0|||||Er....names for powered armor combat style|Dranger||21:44:22|04/12/2002|I%27m kind of wondering what kind of martial arts %0D%0Astyle you could use for powered armor.  When I %0D%0Asay powered armor I mean primarily Landmates from%0D%0AAppleseed...or similar mechs.  Any ideas%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ADranger.%0D%0A%0D%0A
1|1|0|||1||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|zojojojo||23:43:27|04/12/2002|%3EI%27m kind of wondering what kind of martial arts %0D%0A%3Estyle you could use for powered armor.  When I %0D%0A%3Esay powered armor I mean primarily Landmates from %0D%0A%3EAppleseed...or similar mechs.  Any ideas%3F %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0Aerr... none%2C really... martial arts rely on your body%27s ability to move in a certain manner%2C and you knowledge if just how big%2Fflexible%2Ffast your body is. this doesn%27t work if you have to manipulate controls to get something done. at that point%2C it%27s like a big game of street fighter or something%2C where a certain command sequence runs a sub-routine that performs a particular attack.%0D%0A%0D%0Aif%2C otoh%2C the armor is basically a big mechanized medival armor%2C where you physicaly control the movements%2C but get a %27power assist%27 %28like bgc%29 then probably some kenpo%2Ftae kwon do derivative with weapons training... which won%27t serve you real well when you%27re not in the armor because the moves are developed to take advantage of the armor%27s strength and durability%2C not yours.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0Adoes that help%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A-Z %5Bi%5Di should watch %27seed again... it%27s been too long%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ARabid Crack Turtle 3.14159%0D%0A---%0D%0AWelcome to Hell. Here%27s your accordion.
6|2|1|||||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|megazone||17:09:09|04/15/2002|%3Eerr... none%2C really... martial arts rely on your body%27s ability to %0D%0A%3Emove in a certain manner%2C and you knowledge if just how %0D%0A%3Ebig%2Fflexible%2Ffast your body is. this doesn%27t work if you have to %0D%0A%3Emanipulate controls to get something done. at that point%2C it%27s like a %0D%0A%3Ebig game of street fighter or something%2C where a certain command %0D%0A%3Esequence runs a sub-routine that performs a particular attack. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3Eif%2C otoh%2C the armor is basically a big mechanized medival armor%2C where %0D%0A%3Eyou physicaly control the movements%2C but get a %27power assist%27 %0D%0A%0D%0AThe Landmates in Appleseed work that way.  The pilot wears a sensing suit and connects to the mech so that it mirrors their movements.  Shirow created a very interesting design there.%0D%0A
7|3|6|||||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|Dranger||17:21:43|04/15/2002|Thanks MegaZone.I was kinda wanting to get around to%0D%0Athat descripition.  Of course then there%27s the %0D%0A%27protector%27 suits. Which range from the ORC to%0D%0Athe K-2 Gasium.  But then I%27ve been kinda busy...%0D%0A%0D%0ADranger.%0D%0A%0D%0A
2|1|0|||1||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|Peter Eng||00:45:50|04/15/2002|%3EI%27m kind of wondering what kind of martial arts %0D%0A%3Estyle you could use for powered armor.  When I %0D%0A%3Esay powered armor I mean primarily Landmates from %0D%0A%3EAppleseed...or similar mechs.  Any ideas%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EDranger. %0D%0A%0D%0AIMO%2C an effective fighting style in power armor would either be one where taking damage is expected%2C such as Muay Thai %28Thai Kickboxing%29%2C or one where speed is less important than power - a wrestling variant%2C probably.%0D%0A%0D%0ADisclaimer%3A My opinion on fighting styles and %242.50 will buy you an espresso at Starbucks.%0D%0A%0D%0APeter Eng%0D%0A--%0D%0ACry %27CHEEBLE%2C%27 and let slip the hamsters of war%21
3|2|2|||||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|Dranger||02:14:46|04/15/2002|Thanks. I%27ll keep that in mind.  %0D%0A%0D%0ADranger%0D%0A
10|2|2|||1||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|zojojojo||00:51:07|04/16/2002|%3EIMO%2C an effective fighting style in power armor would either be one %0D%0A%3Ewhere taking damage is expected%2C such as Muay Thai %28Thai Kickboxing%29%2C %0D%0A%3Eor one where speed is less important than power - a wrestling variant%2C %0D%0A%3Eprobably. %0D%0A%0D%0AWrestling is tricky%2C unless all power armour in this universe has the same articulation%2C and even then it%27s not easy. Part of what makes wrestling work is your body%27s natural desire to %27move a certain way%27 %28elbows bend%2C etc.%29 and wrestling makes your body do things by forcing it into positions it doesn%27t like. With PA%2C as often as not%2C you%27ll just break the joint you%27re working%2C since the PA doesn%27t have a sense of self-preservation.%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m personally not keen on any style that involves me taking damage more or less on purpose. Speed and power are not necessarily mutually exclusive %28Bruce Lee%2C anyone%3F%29 but you%27re not going to get a lot of exotic movement like kung fu  in a Power Armor... Kenpo%2C Karate%2C TKD%2C even Sumo and Judo %28which use leverage to throw%29 would probably be good choices%2C but they%27d need modification to work in a suit...%0D%0A%0D%0A-Z %5Bi%5Dfree advice is worth every penny%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ARabid Crack Turtle 3.14159%0D%0A---%0D%0AWelcome to Hell. Here%27s your accordion.
11|3|10|||1||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|Laudre||01:19:13|04/16/2002|%3EI%27m personally not keen on any style that involves me taking damage %0D%0A%3Emore or less on purpose. Speed and power are not necessarily mutually %0D%0A%3Eexclusive %28Bruce Lee%2C anyone%3F%29 but you%27re not going to get a lot of %0D%0A%3Eexotic movement like kung fu  in a Power Armor... Kenpo%2C Karate%2C TKD%2C %0D%0A%3Eeven Sumo and Judo %28which use leverage to throw%29 would probably be %0D%0A%3Egood choices%2C but they%27d need modification to work in a suit... %0D%0A%0D%0ASee%2C the thing about martial arts is that teaching involves%2C in no small part%2C a great deal of repetitive movement%2C done over and over again until it goes past teaching%2C goes past reflex%2C and becomes the way you move naturally.  %28This is why most sport variations aren%27t really true martial arts anymore%2C and more like a combination of boxing and gymnastics%2C or a more stratified wrestling.%29  %5Bi%5DGunbuster%5B%2Fi%5D got this very right%2C by having the pilots learn how to pilot their mecha this way.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs for what mecha would make for effective martial arts -- landmates%2C maybe%2C but you%27d need a custom martial art designed to not merely function within the way the landmate can move%2C but take advantage of what it can do.  Landmates have a more restricted range of motion%2C and they don%27t balance or move the same way as a human body%2C so all martial arts training would have to be done in the suit%3B furthermore the need for a sensory suit would lead to a delay -- and a split-second delay in martial arts is the difference between dodging and getting kicked in the chest.  Evangelions would probably work best%2C since they have the same physics as a human body %28hell%2C they%27re %5Bi%5Dmore%5B%2Fi%5D agile than any human body%29%2C and they%27re controlled by direct neural connection%2C not any kind of medium that means a delay between order and execution.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs for speed vs. power -- that%27s a fighting game myth.  Power requires speed%2C since most of the thrust of a punch comes from how fast it%27s being thrown.  And the stronger you are%2C the more potent your follow-through.  About the only way power can be traded off for speed is by shortening follow-through to throw more punches.  %28And follow-through is more important than wind-up -- go hunt down a demonstration of Bruce Lee%27s quarter-inch punch.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean -- %0D%0A%5Bb%5DRabid Crack Weasel %2342%5B%2Fb%5D %0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22  -- Terry Pratchett %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.drelau.com%2F%7CThe Broken Link%5D %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Feva_densetsu%2F%7CFollow my creative process%5D %0D%0A
13|4|11|||1||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|remande||17:14:04|04/19/2002|%0D%0A%3EAs for what mecha would make for effective martial arts -- landmates%2C %0D%0A%3Emaybe%2C but you%27d need a custom martial art designed to not merely %0D%0A%3Efunction within the way the landmate can move%2C but take advantage of %0D%0A%3Ewhat it can do.  Landmates have a more restricted range of motion%2C and %0D%0A%3Ethey don%27t balance or move the same way as a human body%2C so all %0D%0A%3Emartial arts training would have to be done in the suit%3B furthermore %0D%0A%3Ethe need for a sensory suit would lead to a delay -- and a %0D%0A%3Esplit-second delay in martial arts is the difference between dodging %0D%0A%3Eand getting kicked in the chest.  Evangelions would probably work %0D%0A%3Ebest%2C since they have the same physics as a human body %28hell%2C they%27re %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5Dmore%5B%2Fi%5D agile than any human body%29%2C and they%27re controlled by %0D%0A%3Edirect neural connection%2C not any kind of medium that means a delay %0D%0A%3Ebetween order and execution. %0D%0A%0D%0AAbsolutely.  Also%2C every class of mech would require a different martial art.  In the Real World%2C different martial arts fit different body types%2C as well as different circumstances.  Tae Quon Do%2C for instance%2C is a heavy kicking form and is better suited to people with leg-strength.  Boxing %28yes%2C it%27s a martial art%29 is better suited to people with arm-strength.  Aikido is excellent for one with moderate strength but great flexibility%2C dexterity%2C and grace under pressure.%0D%0A%0D%0AOne martial art that would make a lot of sense with the MADOX school of stocky%2C minimally-articulated mechs would be sumo.  AFAIK%2C sumo requires limited maneuverability%2C but great strength%2C sheer mass%2C and excellent quickness.  One would%2C however%2C have to extend the art of sumo %28which considers a knockdown a victory%29 by adding techniques to quickly disable a fallen foe.  After all%2C you don%27t want him getting back up again...%0D%0A%0D%0ABetter articulated mechs might try for something like Judo.%0D%0A%0D%0AOne problem I see is that I doubt that bigger mecha would be able to do hard %22striking%22 arts well%2C unless their frames are extremely heavy.  Back when I was young and stupid%2C I saw an episode of Voltron where the mighty robot was kicking the crap out of an enemy.  This was the permutation of V where his feet were cars or trucks or something.  And by kicking%2C he%27s repeatedly slamming those cars%2C bumper-first%2C into the equivalent of a brick wall at probably 60%2B mph.  So to do hard arts with a Voltron-scale mech %28probably slightly larger than your average Cybertronian combiner%29%2C you need your armor %5Bi%5Dand frame%5B%2Fi%5D to be able to withstand fatal car crashes without flinching.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt might take years after developing a mech to develop one or more martial arts that fit them.  Regular human martial arts simply aren%27t built for the capabilities inherent in the mech.%0D%0A%0D%0AOne way around this is to consider %5Bem%5Danimal%5B%2Fem%5D martial arts.  Most large animals have instinctive ways to defend themselves%2C ways that could easily be copied in a mech built to similar proportions.  The problem with this is that there just aren%27t a lot of bipedal mammals out there.  But one could certainly build a suit like a bear on hind legs%2C and fight same.%0D%0A%0D%0AJust some thoughts.%0D%0A%0D%0A     --rR%0D%0A%0D%0AEyrie RCW %23625%0D%0AFormer co-author%0D%0A%0D%0A
4|1|0|||1||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|Mephron||10:48:57|04/15/2002|%3EI%27m kind of wondering what kind of martial arts %0D%0A%3Estyle you could use for powered armor.  When I %0D%0A%3Esay powered armor I mean primarily Landmates from %0D%0A%3EAppleseed...or similar mechs.  Any ideas%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AFor the Cyberpunk 2020 game%2C there%27s a pair of martial arts for full conversion borgs that could possibly be adapted to that.  For the heavy borgs%2C there%27s Panzer Faust%3B for the lighter%2C there%27s Panzer Kunst.  %28Borrowed whole-hog from%2C I might add%2C %27Battle Angel%27.%29  %0D%0A%0D%0AIf your universe has specialized PA training%2C it%27s possible there are martial arts that PA troopers are trained with%2C developed for them.  %28Of course%2C they probably also suck badly - martial arts designed by committee usually do.%29%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd if you have multiple countries%2C each one might have their own slightly different style - the Germans have Panzerfaust%3B the Americans have Metalstorm%3B the Japanese have tetsu-no-ken %28Iron Fist%29.%0D%0A%0D%0AGoing from real-world%2C you need to take into account mobility differences and limb changes - Shirow%27s landmates are going to be LOUSY at martial arts%2C because of the differences in upper limb actuation and the limited motion in the lower legs%2C which are illustrated in%2C I think%2C part of the third collection.  Someone suggested Muay Thai%2C which has possibilities.  But I really think you%27ll have to think about how the suits work%2C and work from there.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28Just as a note%2C it%27s entirely possible that aikido or aikijutsu may very well do all sorts of nasty things in PA hand-to-hand combat.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--%0D%0AGeoff Depew - Mephron%0D%0AHaberdasher to Androids%2C Malakite of Lightning and Angel of Tech Support Professionals %0D%0AEPU RCW %231
5|2|4|||1||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|Perko||15:26:40|04/15/2002|Wouldn%27t it be wiser to shoot them with guns%3F Traditional martial arts %28and most short-sighted %27cyborg arts%27%29 don%27t seem to take into account that you will have %5Bi%5Dintegral guns%5B%2Fi%5D.%0D%0A%0D%0A-Craig
8|3|5|||1||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|Mephron||23:22:39|04/15/2002|%3EWouldn%27t it be wiser to shoot them with guns%3F Traditional martial arts %0D%0A%3E%28and most short-sighted %27cyborg arts%27%29 don%27t seem to take into account %0D%0A%3Ethat you will have %5Bi%5Dintegral guns%5B%2Fi%5D. %0D%0A%0D%0AYeah.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe %27martial arts%27 are for when you either need to take them alive or your weapons are toasted.%0D%0A%0D%0AOr if by some godawful stretch of the imagination %28or not so godawful%2C they do it in Appleseed%29 you need to send them in on a stealth mission....%0D%0A%0D%0A--%0D%0AGeoff Depew - Mephron%0D%0AHaberdasher to Androids%2C Malakite of Lightning and Angel of Tech Support Professionals %0D%0AEPU RCW %231
9|4|8|||1||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|zojojojo||00:37:50|04/16/2002|%3E%3EWouldn%27t it be wiser to shoot them with guns%3F Traditional martial arts %0D%0A%3E%3E%28and most short-sighted %27cyborg arts%27%29 don%27t seem to take into account %0D%0A%3E%3Ethat you will have %5Bi%5Dintegral guns%5B%2Fi%5D. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYeah. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThe %27martial arts%27 are for when you either need to take them alive or %0D%0A%3Eyour weapons are toasted. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EOr if by some godawful stretch of the imagination %28or not so godawful%2C %0D%0A%3Ethey do it in Appleseed%29 you need to send them in on a stealth %0D%0A%3Emission.... %0D%0A%0D%0AStealth doesn%27t preclude having guns%2C especially with power armour. Any kind of battle involving a power suit is going to be loud. Tens of tons of metal tend to make noise when hit%2Fthrown...%0D%0A%0D%0A-Z %5Bi%5D%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ARabid Crack Turtle 3.14159%0D%0A---%0D%0AWelcome to Hell. Here%27s your accordion.
12|5|9|||||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|drakensisthered||02:51:24|04/16/2002|%3EStealth doesn%27t preclude having guns%2C especially with power armour. %0D%0A%3EAny kind of battle involving a power suit is going to be loud. Tens of %0D%0A%3Etons of metal tend to make noise when hit%2Fthrown... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0ANot to mention what happens if you land on anyone not wearing power armour. Yech.
14|3|5|||1||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|remande||17:17:22|04/19/2002|%3EWouldn%27t it be wiser to shoot them with guns%3F Traditional martial arts %0D%0A%3E%28and most short-sighted %27cyborg arts%27%29 don%27t seem to take into account %0D%0A%3Ethat you will have %5Bi%5Dintegral guns%5B%2Fi%5D. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E-Craig %0D%0A%0D%0AThe beauty of armored martial arts is that you can close in to the point where those integral guns are useless.  Martial arts gives you a good kill zone at point blank range%2C that guns simply won%27t give you.  If you out-articulate your opponent and he out-guns you%2C close in as fast as possible and have at him where you have an advantage.%0D%0A%0D%0A     --rR%0D%0A%0D%0AEyrie RCW %23625%0D%0AFormer co-author%0D%0A%0D%0A
15|4|14|||1||RE%3A Er....names for powered armor combat s|Perko||00:47:25|04/21/2002|%3EThe beauty of armored martial arts is that you can close in to the %0D%0A%3Epoint where those integral guns are useless.  Martial arts gives you a %0D%0A%3Egood kill zone at point blank range%2C that guns simply won%27t give you.  %0D%0A%3EIf you out-articulate your opponent and he out-guns you%2C close in as %0D%0A%3Efast as possible and have at him where you have an advantage. %0D%0A%0D%0A%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AOkaaaay... I guess it depends on your writing style%2C but in my experience%2C a gun at point blank range does even more damage than a gun at longer range. The difficulty is bringing them to bear on a melee target. When they are mounted either in or nestled under the forearm%2C that is as simple as punching them.%0D%0A%0D%0AAlso%2C it%27s difficult to actually %5Bi%5Dinjure%5B%2Fi%5D a big metal mech with a big metal fist. You%27ll dent the hell out of them%2C and completely trash their paint job%2C but you%27ll need a weapon %28integral or not%29 to do any real damage when you%27re that big. Whether it%27s a sword%2C or a weird radiating field%2C or whatnot.%0D%0A%0D%0AOf course%2C I%27m thinking rather bulky %22lots of bells and whistles%22 mecha. If you%27re talking Eva-shaped mecha%2C then human is as human does.%0D%0A%0D%0A-Craig