18||0|792|0|yes
0|0|0|||||need information|Blob||14:29:13|05/01/2002|Hi.%0D%0A%0D%0ASome time ago I found a website about Star Wars ships and there I found some information about the Eclipse-class superstardestroyer. I don%27t have the URL anymore but I think it said that the Eclipse-class was about as big as the Executor-class seen in Episode VI. Now I%27ve thought about using it in a fanfic. But today I%27ve found a Website that says that the Eclipse-class is much bigger than the Executor-class. So I want to know which of this Websites is right.
1|1|0|||1||RE%3A need information|Gryphon||15:06:26|05/01/2002|%3ESome time ago I found a website about Star Wars ships and there I %0D%0A%3Efound some information about the Eclipse-class superstardestroyer. I %0D%0A%3Edon%27t have the URL anymore but I think it said that the Eclipse-class %0D%0A%3Ewas about as big as the Executor-class seen in Episode VI. Now I%27ve %0D%0A%3Ethought about using it in a fanfic. But today I%27ve found a Website %0D%0A%3Ethat says that the Eclipse-class is much bigger than the %0D%0A%3EExecutor-class. So I want to know which of this Websites is right. %0D%0A%0D%0AMu.  Determining ship sizes in %5Bi%5DStar Wars%5B%2Fi%5D is an inexact science at best%2C because pretty much all technical information in that universe is a huge%2C uncontrolled hodgepodge with no central authority collecting%2C correlating or coordinating it.  Any given ship in %5Bi%5DStar Wars%5B%2Fi%5D is as big as whoever%27s talking about it at the time says it is - so neither of your sources are right%2C or both.%0D%0A%0D%0APersonally%2C I figure the %5Bi%5DEclipse%5B%2Fi%5D class must be bigger than the old %5Bi%5DSuper%5B%2Fi%5Ds - the Empire never makes a new version of anything without making it bigger.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28%5Bi%5DExecutor%5B%2Fi%5D%2C George%3F  What the hell%3F  Were you%2C perhaps%2C thinking %5Bi%5DExecutioner%5B%2Fi%5D and just had a mental typo%3F  I hope so.  I hope you weren%27t implying that Darth Vader%27s flagship is intended to give the populace the mental image of the lawyer who will shepherd the Emperor%27s estate through probate court after he dies.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
2|2|1|||1||RE%3A need information|zojojojo||15:16:57|05/01/2002|%3E%28%5Bi%5DExecutor%5B%2Fi%5D%2C George%3F  What the hell%3F  Were you%2C perhaps%2C thinking %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5DExecutioner%5B%2Fi%5D and just had a mental typo%3F  I hope so.  I hope you %0D%0A%3Eweren%27t implying that Darth Vader%27s flagship is intended to give the %0D%0A%3Epopulace the mental image of the lawyer who will shepherd the %0D%0A%3EEmperor%27s estate through probate court after he dies.%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AA lawyer %5Bi%5Dis%5B%2Fi%5D an agent of Evil%2C though. And who isn%27t afraid of lawyers%2C anyway%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A-Z %5Bi%5D%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ARabid Crack Turtle 3.14159%0D%0A---%0D%0AWelcome to Hell. Here%27s your accordion.
3|1|0|||||RE%3A need information|drakensisthered||18:11:48|05/01/2002|%3EHi. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ESome time ago I found a website about Star Wars ships and there I %0D%0A%3Efound some information about the Eclipse-class superstardestroyer. I %0D%0A%3Edon%27t have the URL anymore but I think it said that the Eclipse-class %0D%0A%3Ewas about as big as the Executor-class seen in Episode VI. Now I%27ve %0D%0A%3Ethought about using it in a fanfic. But today I%27ve found a Website %0D%0A%3Ethat says that the Eclipse-class is much bigger than the %0D%0A%3EExecutor-class. So I want to know which of this Websites is right. %0D%0A%0D%0AI don%27t believe there%27s canon info but the EGTV%26V lists Super Star Destroyers at 8km %28twice the length of Breetai%27s flagship in Robotech terms%29 and the Eclipse as 17.5km. The spinal laser was %27merely%27 two-thirds as powerful as the main weapon of a Death Star.%0D%0A%0D%0AClearly Palpatine%27s orders to Kuat shipyards can be sunmmed up as %27make mine bigger%27.
4|2|3|||1||RE%3A need information|Offsides||18:50:01|05/01/2002|%3EI don%27t believe there%27s canon info but the EGTV%26V lists Super Star %0D%0A%3EDestroyers at 8km%0D%0A%0D%0AAccording to starwars.com %28was poking around earlier today%29 they%27re 12.8km in length - the early 8km calculation was wrong%2C they meant 8 miles %28do the math - hmm...%2C I wonder if NASA was involved in this one... %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0AOffsides%0D%0A%0D%0AUnemployed netadmin seeking job... so what else is new%3F%0D%0AEPU RCW %23%26pi%3B%0D%0A%23include %3Cmetrics.h%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A
5|2|3|||1||RE%3A need information|trigger||18:55:45|05/01/2002|%0D%0A%3EI don%27t believe there%27s canon info but the EGTV%26V lists Super Star %0D%0A%3EDestroyers at 8km %28twice the length of Breetai%27s flagship in Robotech %0D%0A%3Eterms%29 and the Eclipse as 17.5km. The spinal laser was %27merely%27 %0D%0A%3Etwo-thirds as powerful as the main weapon of a Death Star. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EClearly Palpatine%27s orders to Kuat shipyards can be sunmmed up as %0D%0A%3E%27make mine bigger%27. %0D%0A%0D%0ADidn%27t we have this discussion a while back%3F  I thought the general conclusion was that the ships were way too big to make sense from an operational perspective %28i.e. Redneck thought they were impractical%29%2C and that%27s why even the Wayward Son isn%27t a mile long. %0D%0A%0D%0At.%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Maccadon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Pretty ambitious for a tree%2C isn%27t it%3F%22%0D%0A%0D%0A
6|3|5|||1||RE%3A need information|Gryphon||19:47:35|05/01/2002|%3EDidn%27t we have this discussion a while back%3F  I thought the general %0D%0A%3Econclusion was that the ships were way too big to make sense from an %0D%0A%3Eoperational perspective %28i.e. Redneck thought they were impractical%29%2C %0D%0A%3Eand that%27s why even the Wayward Son isn%27t a mile long. %0D%0A%0D%0AWe did have this discussion%2C but that%27s not why the SDF-17 was only 3000 feet long.  It was 3000 feet long because that%27s how big the reference materials Zoner and I had available in the fall of 1991 said the SDF-1 was.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
7|4|6|||||RE%3A need information|Star Ranger4||01:59:52|05/02/2002|%3EWe did have this discussion%2C but that%27s not why the SDF-17 was only %0D%0A%3E3000 feet long.  It was 3000 feet long because that%27s how big the %0D%0A%3Ereference materials Zoner and I had available in the fall of 1991 said %0D%0A%3Ethe SDF-1 was. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AI forget...  The Wandering Child was supposed to be about twice the size of the son in Core 4%2C right%3F  Is that going to change at all%2C or is it still one of the two ships over a mile long in the WDF inventory%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AAlso%2C this just occured to me... is the Child still considered the WDF%27s flagship%3F  and just what sort of duties does she still perform for the WDF%3F
8|5|7|||1||RE%3A need information|Gryphon||02:08:53|05/02/2002|%28this branch moved to the UF board%29%0D%0A
9|3|5|||||RE%3A need information|drakensisthered||02:29:04|05/02/2002|%0D%0A%3EDidn%27t we have this discussion a while back%3F  I thought the general %0D%0A%3Econclusion was that the ships were way too big to make sense from an %0D%0A%3Eoperational perspective %28i.e. Redneck thought they were impractical%29%2C %0D%0A%3Eand that%27s why even the Wayward Son isn%27t a mile long. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0AProbably%2C the same material I used for length gives a crew of 700%2C000 for an Eclipse%2C with another 150%2C000 stormtroopers. Given that the same numbers could crew eighteen ISDs%2C which would be much more difficult to destroy with a single reflex cannon shot and can be in up to 18 different systems if needed%2C the military logic is pretty straightforward for UF.%0D%0A%0D%0AOf course%2C in SW%2C there only weapons that could one shot a captal ship are the Emperor%27s anyway so perhaps against batteries of turbolasers it makes more tactical sense.%0D%0A%0D%0ANah.
10|4|9|||1||RE%3A need information|Nathan||17:03:50|05/02/2002|%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EDidn%27t we have this discussion a while back%3F  I thought the general %0D%0A%3E%3Econclusion was that the ships were way too big to make sense from an %0D%0A%3E%3Eoperational perspective %28i.e. Redneck thought they were impractical%29%2C %0D%0A%3E%3Eand that%27s why even the Wayward Son isn%27t a mile long. %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3EProbably%2C the same material I used for length gives a crew of 700%2C000 %0D%0A%3Efor an Eclipse%2C with another 150%2C000 stormtroopers. Given that the %0D%0A%3Esame numbers could crew eighteen ISDs%2C which would be much more %0D%0A%3Edifficult to destroy with a single reflex cannon shot and can be in up %0D%0A%3Eto 18 different systems if needed%2C the military logic is pretty %0D%0A%3Estraightforward for UF. %0D%0A%0D%0AA pointless question%3A What kind of ship would it take to -survive- a shot from an Omega class weapon%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AProbably an SSD can%27t manage the feat%2C but still...%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd%2C of course%2C anything with those kinds of shields would be almost invulnerable to lesser weapons.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EOf course%2C in SW%2C there only weapons that could one shot a captal ship %0D%0A%3Eare the Emperor%27s anyway so perhaps against batteries of turbolasers %0D%0A%3Eit makes more tactical sense. %0D%0A%0D%0AIrrellevant%2C from the Emperor%27s standpoint. Possibly 18 ISDs would have greater firepower%2Fsurvivability than a single SSD.%0D%0A%0D%0ABut%2C from a purely visceral standpoint%2C what%27s scarier%3F A fleet fit to crush your own%3F Or a single monster that can eat everything you throw at it like popcorn%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AOTOH...%0D%0A%0D%0AHmmm... Sudden thought %231%3A Given the number of weapons currently able to kill a tank%2C why are they still used%3F And might not an SSD serve the same purpose%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ASudden thought %232%3A Tactical perhaps%2C but what about strategic%3F Would 18 ISDs cost more to operate than a single SSD%3F Obviously%2C you%27d need ISDs for smaller problems%2C but would it be cheaper to send an SSD into a situation that called for that level of force%3F%0D%0A%0D%0ABlessed be.%0D%0ANathan Baxter%0D%0A%28Not enough of a military geek to answer his own questions%2C but interested in seeing them discussed.%29
11|5|10|||1||RE%3A need information|Gryphon||17:17:55|05/02/2002|%3EHmmm... Sudden thought %231%3A Given the number of weapons currently able %0D%0A%3Eto kill a tank%2C %0D%0A%0D%0Awhich%2C in operational experience%2C appears to be %22none%22 in the case of the M1A2... %0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0Anot counting nukes%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
12|6|11|||1||RE%3A need information|Nathan||17:21:17|05/02/2002|%3E%3EHmmm... Sudden thought %231%3A Given the number of weapons currently able %0D%0A%3E%3Eto kill a tank%2C %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3Ewhich%2C in operational experience%2C appears to be %22none%22 in the case of %0D%0A%3Ethe M1A2... %0D%0A%0D%0A%2Ablinkblink%2A Had thought it was in the dozens...%0D%0A%0D%0AHuh. Interesting.%0D%0A%0D%0ABlessed be.%0D%0ANathan Baxter
13|7|12|||1||RE%3A need information|Gryphon||18:13:58|05/02/2002|%3E%3E%3EHmmm... Sudden thought %231%3A Given the number of weapons currently able %0D%0A%3E%3E%3Eto kill a tank%2C %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3Ewhich%2C in operational experience%2C appears to be %22none%22 in the case of %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe M1A2... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%2Ablinkblink%2A Had thought it was in the dozens... %0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C I suppose there are some weapons that%2C technically speaking%2C %5Bi%5Dcould%5B%2Fi%5D destroy an M1A2%2C aside from nukes.  Certain heavy air-dropped munitions %28like that one gigantic fuel-air bomb they have to drop from C-130s%29 could probably do it%2C and maybe that one rocket-assisted anti-runway bomb %28the Durandal%2C I believe%29 if it scored a direct top-down hit.  But %5Bi%5Demploying%5B%2Fi%5D those weapons against armor isn%27t intuitive and probably wouldn%27t be attempted.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs for the weapons actually intended to be anti-armor%2C well%2C we haven%27t lost an Abrams to one yet as far as I can recall%2C and as the old saying goes%2C nothing succeeds like success.  In a couple of friendly-fire incidents in the Gulf War%2C M1A1s failed to destroy %5Bi%5Deach other%5B%2Fi%5D%2C and that Rheinmetall 120mm is still the best tank gun in the world.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
14|7|12|||||RE%3A need information|drakensisthered||18:18:16|05/02/2002|%3E%3E%3EHmmm... Sudden thought %231%3A Given the number of weapons currently able %0D%0A%3E%3E%3Eto kill a tank%2C %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3Ewhich%2C in operational experience%2C appears to be %22none%22 in the case of %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe M1A2... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%2Ablinkblink%2A Had thought it was in the dozens... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EHuh. Interesting. %0D%0A%0D%0ATanks have never been THAT hard to kill - WWI Tanks were killed by artillery%2C by WWII anti-tank cannon were around in numbers. But chobham armour%2C despite an obscene price tag %28I think it%27s second only to the targeting computer as the most expensive item used%29 is remarkably tough. It%27s not invulnerable but you need a lot of luck with anything less than a modern tank cannon%2C and even that is open to question - I don%27t recall if anyone%27s actually had Challengers%2FAbrams%2FLeopard II tanks shooting at each other%2C those being the tanks I believe use that armour.
15|8|14|||||RE%3A need information|megazone||21:25:41|05/02/2002|%3Equestion - I don%27t recall if anyone%27s actually had %0D%0A%3EChallengers%2FAbrams%2FLeopard II tanks shooting at each other%2C those %0D%0A%3Ebeing the tanks I believe use that armour. %0D%0A%0D%0AIn the Gulf there were a couple of incidents of the M1 hitting another M1%2C and not disabling it.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe M1 isn%27t as invulnerable as Gryph made it out to be - the rear has lighter armor%2C and the top is vulnerable as well.  Comparatively of course.  I don%27t think an M1 could take a Hellfire to the top of the turret.  But it could probably deal with one to the front plating.%0D%0A
17|9|15|||||RE%3A need information|drakensisthered||02:51:55|05/03/2002|I%27d be amazed if any tank could deal with being shot from above. It%27s the thinnest armour on every design I%27m aware of because tank designers worry more about other tanks than aircraft. If you%27ve ever watched Gasaraki there are several scenes where the robots kill tanks by shooting at them from above - it%27s one of the relatively few real-world advantages of putting a robot that size on the battlefield.
18|10|17|||||RE%3A need information|WengFook||05:02:29|05/07/2002|%3EI%27d be amazed if any tank could deal with being shot from above. It%27s %0D%0A%3Ethe thinnest armour on every design I%27m aware of because tank %0D%0A%3Edesigners worry more about other tanks than aircraft. If you%27ve ever %0D%0A%3Ewatched Gasaraki there are several scenes where the robots kill tanks %0D%0A%3Eby shooting at them from above - it%27s one of the relatively few %0D%0A%3Ereal-world advantages of putting a robot that size on the battlefield. %0D%0A%0D%0AHA%21 With a robot that size forget about shooting it...Just walk on it%21
16|7|12|||1||RE%3A need information|Shadowhavoc||22:53:04|05/02/2002|%3E%3E%3EHmmm... Sudden thought %231%3A Given the number of weapons currently able %0D%0A%3E%3E%3Eto kill a tank%2C %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3Ewhich%2C in operational experience%2C appears to be %22none%22 in the case of %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe M1A2... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%2Ablinkblink%2A Had thought it was in the dozens... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EHuh. Interesting. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0AHate to go further off-topic%2C but to paraphrase Sherman %22Heavy Metal%22 Guderian%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%22So%3F It%27s a tank%2C Airtight%21 It%27s made to have things bounce off of it%21%22