37||0|1048|0|yes
0|0|0|||1||Recommended Books%3F|Arion||12:46:55|06/11/2002|%0D%0AI just picked up second-hand copies of Douglas Adams%27 %22Life%2C The Universe and Everything%22 and %22So Long%2C And Thanks For All The Fish%22. I enjoy his writing style... I know there are other books in his Hitchhiker%27s Trilogy%2C planning to get them...%0D%0A%0D%0AAny other books that you guys would put on par on the Trilogy for recommended reading%3F Or authors that write in his similar%2C witty style%3F I remember someone saying that Terry Pratchett %28sp%29 of the Discworld novels quoted some of Adams%27 lines too...%0D%0A%0D%0A--%0D%0A%22I%27d rather betray the world than let the world betray me%22 - Cao Cao%2C %27Romance of the Three Kingdoms%27
1|1|0|||||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|drakensisthered||15:23:18|06/11/2002|%3E%0D%0A%3EI just picked up second-hand copies of Douglas Adams%27 %22Life%2C The %0D%0A%3EUniverse and Everything%22 and %22So Long%2C And Thanks For All The Fish%22. I %0D%0A%3Eenjoy his writing style... I know there are other books in his %0D%0A%3EHitchhiker%27s Trilogy%2C planning to get them... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAny other books that you guys would put on par on the Trilogy for %0D%0A%3Erecommended reading%3F Or authors that write in his similar%2C witty %0D%0A%3Estyle%3F I remember someone saying that Terry Pratchett %28sp%29 of the %0D%0A%3EDiscworld novels quoted some of Adams%27 lines too... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0ATerry Pratchett is a very good first stop for humour. Arguably better than Adams overall and since he%27s written at least thirty books that should be a good start. In a similar vein%2C Tom Holt - a little closer to satire than parody. From there%2C for fantasy I can recommend Janny Wurts and Joel Rosenburg as well. David Weber has written a couple of very good fantasy novels%2C but is better known for his science fiction%2C in which field I can also recommend Steve White%2C S.M. Stirling and Lois McMasters Bujold%2C as well as those Battletech novels written by Michael Stackpole or Loren L Coleman.
2|2|1|||||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|aes||16:13:58|06/11/2002|%3ETerry Pratchett is a very good first stop for humour. Arguably better %0D%0A%3Ethan Adams overall and since he%27s written at least thirty books that %0D%0A%3Eshould be a good start. %0D%0A%0D%0AAgreed%2C but I feel compelled to mention that some Terry Pratchett books are better than others %28far%2C far better%2C in some cases%29%2C and they don%27t need to be read in order. In my opinion%2C the earlier Discworld books tend to be better%2C though there are some exceptions. %5Bi%5DSmall Gods%5B%2Fi%5D and %5Bi%5DPyramids%5B%2Fi%5D are my favorites. Do not%2C under any circumstances%2C start with %5Bi%5DHogfather%5B%2Fi%5D -- I%27ll make no judgement on its quality%2C but it%27s turned more than one person away from the series. %0D%0AAlso%2C %5Bi%5DGood Omens%5B%2Fi%5D%2C by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett%2C is excellent. %0D%0A%0D%0A-- Anne %28Terry Pratchett fan%29
3|2|1|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|trigger||17:08:36|06/11/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON 06-11-02 AT 05:09 PM (EDT)]To expand on the theme...%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ETerry Pratchett is a very good first stop for humour. %0D%0A%0D%0AAgreed.  While aes like the older ones%2C I%27m a huge fan of the Nightwatch.  %5Bi%5DGuards%2C Guards%2C Guards%21%5B%2Fi%5D was good introduction to the Discworld%2C and didn%27t make me dizzy in the process.%0D%0A  %0D%0A%0D%0A%3EIn a similar vein%2C Tom Holt - a little closer to satire than parody. %0D%0A%0D%0AAlso agreed.  I read his riff on Beowulf a long time ago and still love it.  Try %5Bi%5DExpecting Someone Taller%5B%2Fi%5D%2C and %5Bi%5DWho%27s Afraid of Beowulf%3F%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A %0D%0A%0D%0AFrom there%2C for fantasy I can recommend Janny %0D%0A%3EWurts and Joel Rosenburg as well. %0D%0A%0D%0AI gave up on Joel Rosenburg after trying to make my way through his prose%2C angsty characters%2C and poorly plotted books.  Haven%27t tried Wurtis as I%27ve been put off by the cover art.  %28What%2C do you want me to lie%3F%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EDavid Weber has written a couple of %0D%0A%3Every good fantasy novels%2C but is better known for his science fiction%2C %0D%0A%0D%0AHis Bazell series is weak on plot and high on character.  Oh wait%2C that%27s all his books...except for the most recent Honor Harrington Novel%2C %5Bi%5DWar of Honor%5B%2Fi%5D where it%27s actually vice versa.  You can read David for free at  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.baen.com%2Flibrary%2Fdweber.htm  Despite my criticism%2C I%27m a fan of his early work. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3Ein which field I can also recommend Steve White%0D%0A%0D%0ACollaborates with Weber%2C and frankly I can%27t see what Steve%27s contribution is.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E S.M. Stirling and %0D%0A%0D%0ACollaborated with a bunch of people and did better with that than her own books.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ELois McMasters Bujold%2C %0D%0A%0D%0AThe queen of the future%2C mistress of the biotech revolution.  %5Bi%5DMountains of Mourning%5B%2Fi%5D was the featured story in the very first Analog magazine I bought%2C and I%27ve been hooked since.  She%27s soo cool.  Read  %5Bi%5DShards of Honor%5B%2Fi%5D and %5Bi%5DBarrayar%5B%2Fi%5D before you read anything else.  Do not buy %5Bi%5DDiplomatic Immunity%5B%2Fi%5D as it absolutely useless without the previous 10 novels. Read her stuff in order%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AShards of Honor%0D%0ABarrayar%0D%0AWarrior%27s Apprentive%0D%0AThe Vor Game%0D%0ACetaganda%0D%0AEthan of Athos%0D%0ABorders of Infinity%0D%0ABrothers in Arms%0D%0AMirror Dance%0D%0AMemory%0D%0AKomarr%0D%0AA Civil Campaign%0D%0ADiplomatic Immunity%0D%0A%0D%0Aand then read %0D%0A%0D%0AFalling Free%0D%0A%0D%0AAs I have only read %5Bi%5DSpirit Ring%5B%2Fi%5D%2C and frankly wasn%27t impressed%2C I won%27t comment on her Fantasy. %0D%0A%0D%0Aas well as those Battletech novels written by %0D%0A%3EMichael Stackpole or Loren L Coleman. %0D%0A%0D%0AMichael Stackpole has some excellent novels outside of Battle Tech.  %5Bi%5DOnce a Hero%5B%2Fi%5D%2C %5Bi%5DTalion%3A Revanant%5B%2Fi%5D%2C and %5Bi%5DI%2C Jedi%5B%2Fi%5D are his best IMHO.  Not crazy about his other works as the characters aren%27t as interesting.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs you might have guessed%2C I like character and plot driven books%2C but will settle for character driven if necessary.  Other recommendations include%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A1. Dorothy L Sayers %28the Lord Peter Wimsey novels%29%0D%0A2. Guy Gavirel Kay %28Fionovar Tapestry trillogy%29%0D%0A3. Elizabeth Moon %28Deed of Paksenarrion%29%0D%0A4. Patricia Kenneally-Morrison %28the Tales of Aeron%2C Tales of Arthur%29%0D%0A5. David Drake %28With the Lightings%2C Lieutant Leary Commanding %28bet you thought I%27d recommend the %5Bi%5DHammers%5B%2Fi%5D books%2C didn%27t ya%3F%29%29%0D%0A6. James H. Schmitz %28from which I get my namesake%29%0D%0A%0D%0Ahappy reading%2C %0D%0At. %0D%0A%0D%0Aedit%3A  Bad hypertext mark-up%21 Bad mark-up%21 Sit%21%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Maccadon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Pretty ambitious for a tree%2C isn%27t it%3F%22%0D%0A%0D%0A
6|3|3|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Nathan||19:06:59|06/11/2002|I%27ll take this moment to note that Eric Flint can be absolutely hilarious%2C and has written several fantasy books for their humor value. His prose can be a bit rough%2C but everything else is OK to very good.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3Ein which field I can also recommend Steve White%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ECollaborates with Weber%2C and frankly I can%27t see what Steve%27s %0D%0A%3Econtribution is. %0D%0A%0D%0AHe writes on his own%2C too. I bought one of his novels and couldn%27t finish it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3E S.M. Stirling and %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ECollaborated with a bunch of people and did better with that than her %0D%0A%3Eown books. %0D%0A%0D%0AI thought Stirling was a he...%0D%0A%0D%0AAnyway%2C he%27s got a really grim worldview%2C but he%27s good at his work.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E5. David Drake %28With the Lightings%2C Lieutant Leary Commanding %28bet you %0D%0A%3Ethought I%27d recommend the %5Bi%5DHammers%5B%2Fi%5D books%2C didn%27t ya%3F%29%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ll second a recommendation of those two%2C although I%27d like to note just how similar Adele%27s and Hammer%27s sociopathic henchmen are.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s not something that bothers me%2C but it is kind of amusing.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Lord of the Isles books are worth a look%2C too.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E6. James H. Schmitz %28from which I get my namesake%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AAmen.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3Eedit%3A  Bad hypertext mark-up%21 Bad mark-up%21 Sit%21 %0D%0A%0D%0AARF%21%0D%0A%0D%0ABlessed be.%0D%0ANathan Baxter%0D%0A%28Telzey fan.%29
7|4|6|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|trigger||19:22:54|06/11/2002|%3EI%27ll take this moment to note that Eric Flint can be absolutely %0D%0A%3Ehilarious%2C and has written several fantasy books for their humor %0D%0A%3Evalue. His prose can be a bit rough%2C but everything else is OK to very %0D%0A%3Egood. %0D%0A%0D%0AAgreed.  I like Eric%2C but he produces so much stuff that it all is starting to run together.  I still read the Belisaurius series%2C but I try to avoid the others because of the prose %28he gets clever and tries to use seeminly archaic english to hammer in a point.  Sayers can do it with clean prose%2C and Eric%2C well he can%27t%29.  1632 was lovely%2C but predictable.  I might make a small exception for the Joes World%27s book if only Pratchett and Adams hadn%27t done it better. %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3E%3E S.M. Stirling and %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E%3ECollaborated with a bunch of people and did better with that than her %0D%0A%3E%3Eown books. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI thought Stirling was a he... %0D%0A%0D%0A95%25 positive it%27s a she.  Except that the offical biography lists it as Stephen Michael Stirling... Oops...%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI%27ll second a recommendation of those two%2C although I%27d like to note %0D%0A%3Ejust how similar Adele%27s and Hammer%27s sociopathic henchmen are. %0D%0A%0D%0AAdele%2C or Adele%27s servant%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0At.%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Maccadon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Pretty ambitious for a tree%2C isn%27t it%3F%22%0D%0A%0D%0A
14|5|7|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Nathan||01:04:48|06/12/2002|%3E%3EI%27ll second a recommendation of those two%2C although I%27d like to note %0D%0A%3E%3Ejust how similar Adele%27s and Hammer%27s sociopathic henchmen are. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAdele%2C or Adele%27s servant%3F %0D%0A%0D%0ATovera and... %2Asnaps fingers%2A Steubens%21 I was blanking his name earlier. Joachim Steubens.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe only real differences between the two are gender and who they work for.%0D%0A%0D%0ABlessed be.%0D%0ANathan Baxter
23|5|7|||||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|drakensisthered||03:35:33|06/12/2002|%3E%3EI%27ll take this moment to note that Eric Flint can be absolutely %0D%0A%3E%3Ehilarious%2C and has written several fantasy books for their humor %0D%0A%3E%3Evalue. His prose can be a bit rough%2C but everything else is OK to very %0D%0A%3E%3Egood. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAgreed.  I like Eric%2C but he produces so much stuff that it all is %0D%0A%3Estarting to run together.  I still read the Belisaurius series%2C but I %0D%0A%3Etry to avoid the others because of the prose %28he gets clever and tries %0D%0A%3Eto use seeminly archaic english to hammer in a point.  Sayers can do %0D%0A%3Eit with clean prose%2C and Eric%2C well he can%27t%29.  1632 was lovely%2C but %0D%0A%3Epredictable.%0D%0A%3E%0D%0AI read what Eric writes and I enjoy it but I admit his collaberations are probably better.
8|3|3|||||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|jonathanlennox||19:54:04|06/11/2002|%3E%3EFrom there%2C for fantasy I can recommend Janny %0D%0A%3E%3EWurts and Joel Rosenburg as well. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EHaven%27t tried Wurtis as I%27ve been put off by the cover art.%0D%0A%0D%0AWurts actually does her own covers -- she%27s a talented artist as well as writer%2C though I can understand why people might be turned off by %27em.  The covers are certainly %5Bi%5Daccurate%5B%2Fi%5D%2C though. %3A-%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3E S.M. Stirling and %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3ECollaborated with a bunch of people and did better with that than her %0D%0A%3Eown books. %0D%0A%0D%0AAs someone else mentioned%2C Stirling is definitely male %28Steve%29.  His author%27s picture shows him to be remarkably hairy%2C too %28not that I%27m one to talk%29.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5DIsland in the Sea of Time%5B%2Fi%5D and its sequels are definitely his best.  You may want to avoid the Draka books%3B they%27re implausible in their basic premise%2C and get pretty nasty in some places.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhat are you thinking of in terms of collaborations -- the Fifth Millenium books%3F  Those are decent%2C but pretty hard to find.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E%3ELois McMaster Bujold%2C %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EThe queen of the future%2C mistress of the biotech revolution.  %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5DMountains of Mourning%5B%2Fi%5D was the featured story in the very first %0D%0A%3EAnalog magazine I bought%2C and I%27ve been hooked since.  She%27s soo cool. %0D%0A%3ERead  %5Bi%5DShards of Honor%5B%2Fi%5D and %5Bi%5DBarrayar%5B%2Fi%5D before you read %0D%0A%3Eanything else.  Do not buy %5Bi%5DDiplomatic Immunity%5B%2Fi%5D as it absolutely %0D%0A%3Euseless without the previous 10 novels. Read her stuff in order%3A %0D%0A%0D%0A%26l%3Blist deleted%26r%3B%0D%0A%0D%0AThe order in which to read Bujold%27s works is %5Bb%5Dsuch%5B%2Fb%5D a flamewar topic.  I personally would strongly recommend publication order over internal chronology.%0D%0AThere are a number of occasions when she revised the backstory while writing chronologically-earlier books%2C which is fine when reading them in publication order%2C but annoying when reading in internal-chronology order.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe effect of %5Bi%5DBarrayar%5B%2Fi%5D%2C especially%2C is quite different when you know the outline of what%27s going to happen.%0D%0A%0D%0ARegardless of order%2C though%2C yes -- read Bujold.  Absolutely.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAs I have only read %5Bi%5DSpirit Ring%5B%2Fi%5D%2C and frankly wasn%27t impressed%2C %0D%0A%3EI won%27t comment on her Fantasy.%0D%0A%0D%0AI wasn%27t impressed by %5Bi%5DThe Spirit Ring%5B%2Fi%5D either.  %5Bi%5DThe Curse of Chalion%5B%2Fi%5D%2C on the other hand%2C was very good -- the result of a decade or so more improvement in writing skill.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAs you might have guessed%2C I like character and plot driven books%2C but %0D%0A%3Ewill settle for character driven if necessary.  Other recommendations %0D%0A%3Einclude%3A %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E2. Guy Gavirel Kay %28Fionovar Tapestry trillogy%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AAnything he%27s written%2C really.  His various pseudo-medieval history works %28%5Bi%5DSong for Arbonne%5B%2Fi%5D%2C %5Bi%5DThe Lions of al-Rassan%5B%2Fi%5D%2C and the Sarantine Mosaic books are the ones I%27ve read%29 are great.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E3. Elizabeth Moon %28Deed of Paksenarrion%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27d recommend her SF%2C too%2C if you like space opera.  %28And what are you doing on Eyrie if you don%27t%3F%29%0D%0A%0D%0A-- %0D%0AJonathan Lennox%0D%0Alennox%40cs.columbia.edu%0D%0A
9|4|8|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Gryphon||20:14:29|06/11/2002|%3EI%27d recommend her SF%2C too%2C if you like space opera.  %28And what are you %0D%0A%3Edoing on Eyrie if you don%27t%3F%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AA question I have occasion to ask with surprising regularity.%0D%0A%0D%0AFor myself%2C I don%27t really read much SF%2C believe it or not.  I%27m much more of a mystery fan.  Most of the SF in my collection is old - E.E. Smith%27s %5Bi%5DLensman%5B%2Fi%5D series%2C A.E. Van Vogt%27s %5Bi%5DThe Empire of Isher%5B%2Fi%5D%2C Verne and Wells%2C Alfred Bester%27s early works.  %28It%27s my opinion that every sentient lifeform should be provided with copies of %5Bi%5DThe Stars My Destination%5B%2Fi%5D and %5Bi%5DThe Demolished Man%5B%2Fi%5D at birth%2C along with the Library of America%27s %5Bi%5DThe Innocents Abroad%2FRoughing It%5B%2Fi%5D Twain compilation%2C but I have been known to be off-base when making such sweeping generalizations. %3A%29  I get most of my sci-fi-type intake from anime and comics rather than literature.%0D%0A%0D%0AMost of what I read for my own enjoyment is either non-fiction %28history of sci%2Ftech%2C World War II%2C travel essays - I%27m especially fond of the O%27Reilly %26 Associates offshoot label%2C %5Bi%5DTravelers%27 Tales%5B%2Fi%5D%2C and much of my research on Paris for %5Bi%5DThe Rose that Blooms in the City of Light%5B%2Fi%5D was done with their Paris edition%29 or mystery fiction - Rex Stout%2C Erle Stanley Gardner%2C Raymond Chandler%2C John D. MacDonald%2C Janwillem van de Wetering%2C Ed McBain%2C Simenon.  I%27m about due to go back to %5Bi%5D%22A%22 is for Alibi%5B%2Fi%5D and start re-reading my Sue Graftons again%2C probably after I move.  %28Seems like I always re-read Grafton after moving.%29%0D%0A%0D%0ARight now I%27m working on Gardner%27s %5Bi%5DThe Case of the Baited Hook%5B%2Fi%5D and Ross MacDonald%27s %5Bi%5DBlack Money%5B%2Fi%5D%2C with occasional digressions to go back and re-read one or another Nero Wolfe story.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
22|5|9|||||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|drakensisthered||03:34:34|06/12/2002|%0D%0A%3EFor myself%2C I don%27t really read much SF%2C believe it or not.  I%27m much %0D%0A%3Emore of a mystery fan.  Most of the SF in my collection is old - E.E. %0D%0A%3ESmith%27s %5Bi%5DLensman%5B%2Fi%5D series%2C %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27d recommend those but it seems to have the same response as Lord of the Ruings%2C either people like %27em or they don%27t. Some of his later work%2C the %5Bi%5Dd%27Alembert%5B%2Fi%5D series is a little more contemporary %28and the concept of an ascendant communism reverting to feudalism is delightfully ironic%29.
4|1|0|||||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Ebony||17:18:26|06/11/2002|%3EAny other books that you guys would put on par on the Trilogy for %0D%0A%3Erecommended reading%3F Or authors that write in his similar%2C witty %0D%0A%3Estyle%3F I remember someone saying that Terry Pratchett %28sp%29 of the %0D%0A%3EDiscworld novels quoted some of Adams%27 lines too... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AI would recommend some of the classics.  You can start with Mark Twain%2C P.G. Wodehouse %28the Jeeves and Wooster stories%29%2C and James Thurber.  Dorothy Parker and H.L. Mencken are good for zinging cynicism.  None of them wrote fantasy or science fiction%2C but they%27re good wit.%0D%0A%0D%0AYou might also try Tom Robbins%27 %5Bu%5DAnother Roadside Attraction%5B%2Fu%5D or %5Bu%5DJitterbug Perfume%5B%2Fu%5D.  Strange%2C but intriguing%2C stories set in the not-quite Real World.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf you%27re looking for more standard fantastical fare%2C I would recommend Neil Gaiman.  %5Bu%5DGood Omens%5B%2Fu%5D is a good start%2C but %5Bu%5DNeverwhere%5B%2Fu%5D and his other works are most enjoyable as well.  I would also recommend the works of Stephen Brust%2C in particular %5Bu%5DJhereg%5B%2Fu%5D and its sequels.%0D%0A%0D%0AEbony the Black Dragon %0D%0Aaka Draco Draconis Ebenium%0D%0Aknown to Baen%2C Doubleday%2C Random House%2C et al as Aaron F. Johnson%2C%0D%0ASenior Editor%2C Living Room Games%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lrgames.com%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A
5|2|4|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Gryphon||17:23:11|06/11/2002|%3E%3EAny other books that you guys would put on par on the Trilogy for %0D%0A%3E%3Erecommended reading%3F Or authors that write in his similar%2C witty %0D%0A%3E%3Estyle%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI would recommend some of the classics.  You can start with Mark %0D%0A%3ETwain%2C %0D%0A%0D%0AYeeeessss... Twain%2C Twain%2C Twain.  His wit is cynical%2C but it%27s razor-sharp%2C and many of his observations from a hundred or more years ago are still just as trenchant today.  I especially recommend his travel works%2C %5Bi%5DThe Innocents Abroad%5B%2Fi%5D%2C %5Bi%5DRouging It%5B%2Fi%5D%2C %5Bi%5DFollowing the Equator%5B%2Fi%5D and the like.  On the whole I enjoy his non-fiction more than his fiction.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Library of America has a compiled edition of %5Bi%5DThe Innocents Abroad%5B%2Fi%5D and %5Bi%5DRoughing It%5B%2Fi%5D which is designed and built to be the last copy of those books you%27ll ever need.  I take mine pretty much everywhere with me.  It%27s my %22desert island%22 book.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
10|2|4|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|donnerjack||20:53:03|06/11/2002|%3EIf you%27re looking for more standard fantastical fare%2C I would %0D%0A%3Erecommend Neil Gaiman.  %5Bu%5DGood Omens%5B%2Fu%5D is a good start%2C but %0D%0A%3E%5Bu%5DNeverwhere%5B%2Fu%5D and his other works are most enjoyable as well.  I %0D%0A%3Ewould also recommend the works of Stephen Brust%2C in particular %0D%0A%3E%5Bu%5DJhereg%5B%2Fu%5D and its sequels.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Vlad Taltos books are excellent%2C but I%27m personally more fond of %5Bu%5DThe Phoenix Guards%5B%2Fu%5D and sequels. So I%27d definitely recommend those.  %0D%0A%0D%0AMost of the things I%27d recommend had been mentioned before I even noticed this thread was here%2C but make sure to pick up Douglas Adams%27 %5Bu%5DLong%2C Dark Teatime of the Soul%5B%2Fu%5D and %5Bu%5DDirk Gently%27s Holistic Detective Agency%5B%2Fu%5D.  I%27ve known many people who loved Douglas Adams and didn%27t even know those two existed.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0ADonnerjack%0D%0A---%0D%0Areality%40peoplearestrange.net%0D%0ABOFH of www.astralstudios.com
11|3|10|||||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Rod_H||00:05:45|06/12/2002|%3EMost of the things I%27d recommend had been mentioned before I even %0D%0A%3Enoticed this thread was here%2C but make sure to pick up Douglas Adams%27 %0D%0A%3E%5Bu%5DLong%2C Dark Teatime of the Soul%5B%2Fu%5D and %5Bu%5DDirk Gently%27s Holistic %0D%0A%3EDetective Agency%5B%2Fu%5D.  I%27ve known many people who loved Douglas Adams %0D%0A%3Eand didn%27t even know those two existed. %0D%0A%0D%0AThen there%27s %27Starship Titanic%27 which is the adaption of the computer game of the same name%2C I haven%27t played the game but the book echos with my memories of Hitchhikers.%0D%0A%0D%0AApparently Penguin is supposed to be publishing Douglas Adams%27 last unfinished novel%2C I can%27t remember the title as I heard the commentator say it on 3RRR%27s %28an Australian community radio station%29 midday Sci-Fi show.%0D%0A%0D%0A--Rod.H%0D%0ACurrently on Discman%3A Cowboy Bebop OST 1
12|4|11|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Laudre||00:48:10|06/12/2002|%3EApparently Penguin is supposed to be publishing Douglas Adams%27 last %0D%0A%3Eunfinished novel%2C I can%27t remember the title as I heard the %0D%0A%3Ecommentator say it on 3RRR%27s %28an Australian community radio station%29 %0D%0A%3Emidday Sci-Fi show. %0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5DSalmon of Doubt%5B%2Fi%5D.  I%27m pretty sure it%27s out already.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean -- %0D%0A%5Bb%5DRabid Crack Weasel %2342%5B%2Fb%5D %0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22  -- Terry Pratchett %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.drelau.com%2F%7CThe Broken Link%5D %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Feva_densetsu%2F%7CFollow my creative process%5D %0D%0A
25|5|12|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|donnerjack||04:45:07|06/12/2002|%3E%3EApparently Penguin is supposed to be publishing Douglas Adams%27 last %0D%0A%3E%3Eunfinished novel%2C I can%27t remember the title as I heard the %0D%0A%3E%3Ecommentator say it on 3RRR%27s %28an Australian community radio station%29 %0D%0A%3E%3Emidday Sci-Fi show. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5DSalmon of Doubt%5B%2Fi%5D.  I%27m pretty sure it%27s out already. %0D%0A%0D%0AIt is indeed out and the little I%27ve heard about it so far has been positive.  I haven%27t had a chance to grab a copy yet though.%0D%0A%0D%0ADonnerjack%0D%0A---%0D%0Areality%40peoplearestrange.net%0D%0ABOFH of www.astralstudios.com
13|1|0|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Laudre||01:03:00|06/12/2002|%3EAny other books that you guys would put on par on the Trilogy for %0D%0A%3Erecommended reading%3F Or authors that write in his similar%2C witty %0D%0A%3Estyle%3F I remember someone saying that Terry Pratchett %28sp%29 of the %0D%0A%3EDiscworld novels quoted some of Adams%27 lines too... %0D%0A%0D%0ATerry Pratchett is very much in that type of very British humor.  If you like Monty Python and Douglas Adams%2C you%27ll definitely dig what he does.  You can basically read the Discworld books in any order%2C but they tend to have a bit more resonance in the later ones if you read the earlier ones first.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn a more serious vein%2C I%27ll take the opportunity to pimp Neil Gaiman.  He writes the kind of stories that nobody%27s quite sure how to genrify%2C and he writes a broad variety of fiction%2C in many media.  I recommend starting with his short story collection %5Bi%5DSmoke and Mirrors%5B%2Fi%5D to get your feet wet%2C and %5Bi%5DSandman%5B%2Fi%5D is one of the greatest works of sequential art of all time.  His latest book%2C coming out this month%2C is %5Bi%5DCoraline%5B%2Fi%5D%2C a children%27s book that is for children in the same way that the Harry Potter books are%3B some people found it very scary%2C others found it magical.  And%2C furthermore%2C if you need evidence that crafting stories is truly an art form%2C look no further than Neil Gaiman%3B his stories are rich%2C deep%2C and layered%2C full of symbolism%2C linkage%2C structural play%2C resonance%2C and awareness.  His characters are complex%2C behaving in ways that make perfect sense and yet are not really predictable.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf you like mythology%2C classic literature%2C interesting ideas%2C and evocative prose%2C you%27ll like Gaiman.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnother writer whom you should be reading%2C if you like actual science fiction and not just space opera is Philip K. Dick.  Dick wasn%27t as great at prose as some of the writers I%27ve come across%2C but his words get the job done more than adequately well%2C and he came up with some of the wildest%2C most interesting ideas I%27ve ever come across.  For instance%2C %5Bi%5DThe Man in the High Castle%5B%2Fi%5D is set in an alternate world where the United States was never drawn into World War II%2C and the Axis powers won it instead%2C and then conquered the United States a generation later%2C with the Germans taking the eastern US and Japan controlling the West Coast%2C leaving the Rocky Mountains the last bastion of the U.S.  And%2C then%2C in this alternate world%2C a writer %28the title character%2C in fact%2C though not the main character%29 has published a novel that has caused an uproar%2C in which the United States got involved in World War II%2C and won it%2C though that alternate-history-within-an-alternate-history is very different from our own.%0D%0A%0D%0AFinally%2C the third author I%27m going to pimp is Lord Dunsany %28his name is actually much longer%2C but that%27s what you%27ll find his work under if you go to the bookstore to find it%29.  Lord Dunsany is the root from which Tolkien sprang%3B his stuff is a rich%2C finely aged red wine compared to the Coca-Cola of the Robert Jordans and David Eddings of this world.  If you like fantasy%2C you owe it to yourself to check this guy out.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean -- %0D%0A%5Bb%5DRabid Crack Weasel %2342%5B%2Fb%5D %0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22  -- Terry Pratchett %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.drelau.com%2F%7CThe Broken Link%5D %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Feva_densetsu%2F%7CFollow my creative process%5D %0D%0A
15|2|13|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Gryphon||01:05:55|06/12/2002|%3EIn a more serious vein%2C I%27ll take the opportunity to pimp Neil Gaiman. %0D%0A%26l%3Bsnip%26r%3B%0D%0A%3EAnother writer whom you should be reading%2C if you like actual science %0D%0A%3Efiction and not just space opera is Philip K. Dick.%0D%0A%0D%0AWow.  That%27s amazing%21  I mean%2C I was expecting you to pimp Gaiman%2C and I can get past that - but Philip K. Dick%21  My least favorite famous science fiction author who isn%27t Larry Niven %28and my animus for Mr. Niven is personal%2C not literary%29%21  That%27s really incredible work.  It%27s like you%27ve got an Anti-What-I%27d-Recommend-O-Scope or something. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
16|3|15|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Nathan||01:26:45|06/12/2002|%3EWow.  That%27s amazing%21  I mean%2C I was expecting you to pimp Gaiman%2C and %0D%0A%3EI can get past that - but Philip K. Dick%21  My least favorite famous %0D%0A%3Escience fiction author who isn%27t Larry Niven %28and my animus for Mr. %0D%0A%3ENiven is personal%2C not literary%29%21  That%27s really incredible work.  %0D%0A%3EIt%27s like you%27ve got an Anti-What-I%27d-Recommend-O-Scope or something. %0D%0A%3E%3A%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AAt a guess%2C I%27d say that Laudre took literature and writing classes and liked them.%0D%0A%0D%0AThere%27s nothing wrong with that%2C as long as one either doesn%27t mind losing the ability to enjoy writing for the sake of the tale instead of the telling%2C or can manage to hang onto the trick in spite of the way such instruction takes such pains to hammer same out of its students.%0D%0A%0D%0AI %28and%2C it appears%2C Gryph%29 take the opposite view - the tale is the only thing that matters%2C and analyzing the telling is inevitably going to be boring%2C unpleasant and%2For sacreligeous.%0D%0A%0D%0AThere are two ways to become a good writer.%0D%0A%0D%0A1.%29 Take lots of classes and learn all the little rules and tricks that people have written down and decided upon. This has the advantage of providing a livelihood for english profs%2C who have no other possible use or job skills. Like learning a second language.%0D%0A%0D%0A2.%29 Read so much that you develope an instinctive feel for what makes up a good story%2C like the way babies learn their first language. This has the advantage of being a lot more fun and%2C if you borrow from a library instead of buying your own copies%2C cheaper.%0D%0A%0D%0ABlessed be.%0D%0ANathan Baxter
17|4|16|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Wedge||01:44:56|06/12/2002|%3E1.%29 Take lots of classes and learn all the little rules and tricks %0D%0A%3Ethat people have written down and decided upon. This has the advantage %0D%0A%3Eof providing a livelihood for english profs%2C who have no other %0D%0A%3Epossible use or job skills. Like learning a second language. %0D%0A%0D%0AAnother upside to this%2C if one is of the right ilk%2C is that learning the %27rules%27 allows one to break them much more effectively.  %3B%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.mac.com%2Fwedge%2Fstuff%2Fnall.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd%5DChad Collier%0D%0ADigital Bitch%0D%0AJ. Random VFX Company%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%230000CC%5DRCW %231138%5B%2Ffont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D
19|5|17|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Laudre||02:50:32|06/12/2002|%3E%3E1.%29 Take lots of classes and learn all the little rules and tricks %0D%0A%3E%3Ethat people have written down and decided upon. This has the advantage %0D%0A%3E%3Eof providing a livelihood for english profs%2C who have no other %0D%0A%3E%3Epossible use or job skills. Like learning a second language. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAnother upside to this%2C if one is of the right ilk%2C is that learning %0D%0A%3Ethe %27rules%27 allows one to break them much more effectively.  %3B%29 %0D%0A%0D%0A%2Ading%2A%0D%0A%0D%0AFurthermore%2C I%27ve never taken any real lit course in my life.  I had a couple of French Lit courses %28in %5Bb%5DFrench%5B%2Fb%5D%2C not English%29%2C and I had a few good teachers for the required English classes in college %28and a pretty good English teacher in high school%29.  It%27s just that I%27m literate by nature%3B I read G. K. Chesterton and Shakespeare and Moliere and Dunsany for fun %28and%2C when I have money again%2C I plan to expand my collection with some James Branch Cabell and more G. K. Chesterton%2C and probably some other early-20th-century British fantasists%29.  Similarly%2C given a choice between an empty summer blockbuster %28%5Bi%5DIndependence Day%5B%2Fi%5D%29 and a weird%2C challenging independent film %28%5Bi%5Dpi%5B%2Fi%5D%29%2C I%27ll take the weird%2C challenging one.  I%27m more interested in going new places%2C not constantly wearing a hole in the carpet of story.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28That%27s not to say I don%27t %5Bb%5Dalso%5B%2Fb%5D enjoy more conventional stories as a diverting%2C quick read%3B else%2C why would I be here%3F  Or why would Anne McCaffrey%27s %5Bi%5DThe Skies of Pern%5B%2Fi%5D be sitting next to %5Bi%5DAmerican Gods%5B%2Fi%5D on my shelf %28as it is at this very moment%29%3F%29%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean -- %0D%0A%5Bb%5DRabid Crack Weasel %2342%5B%2Fb%5D %0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22  -- Terry Pratchett %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.drelau.com%2F%7CThe Broken Link%5D %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Feva_densetsu%2F%7CFollow my creative process%5D %0D%0A
18|1|0|||||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Redneck||02:41:29|06/12/2002|%0D%0A%3EAny other books that you guys would put on par on the Trilogy for %0D%0A%3Erecommended reading%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AFirst and foremost%2C find a copy of Adams%27 %5Bi%5DLast Chance to See%2C%5B%2Fi%5D his major contribution to the conservation movement. It%27s clever%2C touching%2C and just about spot on target.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs for fiction%2C there%27s not all that much I recommend.  I like reading Dickens and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle on occasion %28not just the Sherlock Holmes books%2C although quite frankly I think they are his better work%29%2C and Mark Twain gets high marks as well. %0D%0A%0D%0AAfter reading %5Bi%5DAmerican Empire%3A Blood and Iron%5B%2Fi%5D%2C I%27ve crossed Harry Turtledove permanently off my reading list%2C at least until he goes back to basics and keeps things simple and not contrived.  Harry Harrison is another one I%27m considering dumping%3B for every good book he writes%2C he writes an absolute%2C no-holds-barred stinker. %0D%0A%0D%0AI%27m a very large Discworld fan%2C although I prefer the earliest and most recent books to the %27middle%27 ones. There are a handful of books in the series- specifically %5Bi%5DSourcery%2C Moving Pictures%2C Reaper Man%2C%5B%2Fi%5D and especially %5Bi%5DWitches Abroad%5B%2Fi%5D- which I don%27t really like at all%3B they read very unevenly%2C with a very poor flow of story. Pratchett seems to have fixed this%2C thankfully%2C and I recommend %5Bi%5DThe Colour of Magic%2C Wyrd Sisters%2C Mort%2C%5B%2Fi%5D and %5Bi%5DMen at Arms%5B%2Fi%5D for starting Discworld readers. %0D%0A%0D%0AOne author whom I recommend unreservedly is H. Beam Piper. I regard him as the last of the great pulp writers %28he suicided in 1964%29%2C and although his work is very simple and somewhat repetitive in theme it is still an easy%2C fun read. He%27s most famous for the %5Bi%5DLittle Fuzzy%5B%2Fi%5D trilogy %28about the only thing of his still in print%29%2C but I personally recommend over the Fuzzies the two books that introduced me to Piper%3A %5Bi%5D Junkyard Planet%2FThe Cosmic Computer%5B%2Fi%5D and %5Bi%5DFour Day Planet.%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0AOther names inhabiting my bookshelf include Anne McCaffrey %28reading her stuff is like reading Harry Potter books%3B I don%27t like it%2C but I%27m addicted%29%2C David Weber %28who seems to alternate between good books and utter crap%29%2C James B. Hogan %28who is a pain to read%2C but is usually worth it%29%2C William Fortzchen %28good writing military fiction%2C if not in writing -people-%29 and John de Chancie %28a little-known modern-pulp writer who makes me laugh%29.%0D%0A%0D%0ARedneck%0D%0A%0D%0A
20|2|18|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Laudre||02:55:57|06/12/2002|%3EOther names inhabiting my bookshelf include Anne McCaffrey %28reading %0D%0A%3Eher stuff is like reading Harry Potter books%3B I don%27t like it%2C but I%27m %0D%0A%3Eaddicted%29%2C%0D%0A%0D%0AIn the cases of Eyrie%2C Rowling%2C and McCaffrey%2C it%27s all pretty much the same thing for me%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AIt reads extremely fast %28I can polish off a Rowling book in a few hours%2C for instance%29%2C and I%27m very emotionally invested in finding out what happens to the characters %28Kaitlyn%2C Jaxom%2C Harry...%29.  Even though the stories%2C themselves%2C really aren%27t anything new.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E James B. Hogan %28who is a pain to read%2C but is usually %0D%0A%3Eworth it%29%0D%0A%0D%0AI take it you mean James P. Hogan%3F  I%27ve only read the Minerva trilogy by him%3B utterly fascinating hard SF that was actually about %5Bi%5Dpeople%5B%2Fi%5D and not just the author writing a story that%27s just a thinly veiled frame about a science concept %28I enjoy these types of books occasionally%2C but more out of science geekitude than as a fan of fiction%29.  The only thing I didn%27t particularly like was his condescending attitude towards religion.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Sean -- %0D%0A%5Bb%5DRabid Crack Weasel %2342%5B%2Fb%5D %0D%0A%22All tribal myths are true%2C for a given value of %27true%27.%22  -- Terry Pratchett %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.drelau.com%2F%7CThe Broken Link%5D %0D%0A%5Blink%3Awww.livejournal.com%2Fusers%2Feva_densetsu%2F%7CFollow my creative process%5D %0D%0A
24|2|18|||||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|drakensisthered||03:41:19|06/12/2002|  Harry %0D%0A%3EHarrison is another one I%27m considering dumping%3B for every good book %0D%0A%3Ehe writes%2C he writes an absolute%2C no-holds-barred stinker. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0AOh lord%2C yes. The last few Stainless Steel Rat books were painfully bad%2C although he at least had the taste to stop writing them. On the other hand%2C the Stars and Stripes trilogy was very entertaining... even for a patriotic Brit like me.%0D%0A%0D%0A
29|3|24|||||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|Redneck||15:57:25|06/12/2002|%3E  Harry %0D%0A%3E%3EHarrison is another one I%27m considering dumping%3B for every good book %0D%0A%3E%3Ehe writes%2C he writes an absolute%2C no-holds-barred stinker. %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3EOh lord%2C yes. The last few Stainless Steel Rat books were painfully %0D%0A%3Ebad%2C although he at least had the taste to stop writing them. On the %0D%0A%3Eother hand%2C the Stars and Stripes trilogy was very entertaining... %0D%0A%3Eeven for a patriotic Brit like me. %0D%0A%0D%0AUm%2C I had the Stars and Stripes books particularly in mind when I referred to stinkers. You just -don%27t- want to get a Civil War buff started on those books...%0D%0A%0D%0A%28I should specify%2C American Civil War%3B I understand there%27s people in Britain just as bonkers about the Wars of the Roses%2C the Cavaliers v. Roundheads%2C or Bonnie Prince Charlie as are our neo-Confederates...%29%0D%0A%0D%0ARedneck%0D%0A%0D%0A
21|1|0|||1||RE%3A Recommended Books%3F|cyberpagan||03:03:27|06/12/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON 06-12-02 AT 03:03 AM (EDT)]%3E%0D%0A%3EI just picked up second-hand copies of Douglas Adams%27 %22Life%2C The %0D%0A%3EUniverse and Everything%22 and %22So Long%2C And Thanks For All The Fish%22. I %0D%0A%3Eenjoy his writing style... I know there are other books in his %0D%0A%3EHitchhiker%27s Trilogy%2C planning to get them... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAny other books that you guys would put on par on the Trilogy for %0D%0A%3Erecommended reading%3F Or authors that write in his similar%2C witty %0D%0A%3Estyle%3F I remember someone saying that Terry Pratchett %28sp%29 of the %0D%0A%3EDiscworld novels quoted some of Adams%27 lines too... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E-- %0D%0A%3E%22I%27d rather betray the world than let the world betray me%22 - Cao Cao%2C %0D%0A%3E%27Romance of the Three Kingdoms%27 %0D%0A%0D%0AI would heartily reccomend%2C Douglas Adams%21 He also wrote an incredibly witty and perverse pair of books about a holistic detective%2C Dirk Gentley. I actually like them better than the Hitchhikers books%2C but only a little better. %0D%0A%0D%0AFrank%0D%0A%0D%0A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%2A%0D%0AI%27m really here%2C but I%27m not here%2C really.%0D%0ARCW%23665 the other neighbor of the beast
26|1|0|||1||Thanks|Arion||12:10:16|06/12/2002|%0D%0AThanks for all your suggestions%2C I%27ll be looking them up at the bookstores soon%2C though I doubt I can find most of them here in Malaysia... back to Amazon I guess...%0D%0A%0D%0AI am also looking for some suitably%2C %27epic%27 novels... %27epic%27 in the sense that it has many memorable characters%2C vivid scenes and so on... I%27ve read many Oriental %27epics%27 like %22Romance of the Three Kingdoms%22%2C %22Outlaws of The Marsh%2FThe 108 Heroes%22%2C %22Biography of General Yue Fei%22%2C %22Musashi%22 and %22Taiko%22 among others... I%27m looking for more books of those nature but with western flavours... %0D%0A%0D%0AThere are%2C of course%2C the classic works of the Greeks and Roman historians%2Fwriters%2C but many are in poetry form and others%2C well%2C dreary. Anything more modern dealing with%2C say%2C the Napoleonic Era%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AOn the sci-fi note%2C I%27ve read many BattleTech%2FMechWarrior novels%2C they are mostly ok but WizKids %28%3F the owners%29 are planning a fast forward with the timeline and messing about with the established settings%2C replacing the current Clan vs Inner Sphere with something very... different. I can%27t find any quality BattleTech links%2C anyone here can help%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AI don%27t see anyone here mentioning the Games Workshop%2FWarhammer novels... I especially enjoyed %22Space Marines%22 from the Warhammer 40k line...%0D%0A%0D%0A--%0D%0A%22I am Zhang I-de of Yan%2C who dares fight me%21%22 - Zhang Fei%2C %27Romance of the Three Kingdoms%27
27|2|26|||||RE%3A Thanks|Ebony||13:29:04|06/12/2002|%3EI don%27t see anyone here mentioning the Games Workshop%2FWarhammer %0D%0A%3Enovels... I especially enjoyed %22Space Marines%22 from the Warhammer 40k %0D%0A%3Eline... %0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C this started with an implication for wits%2C and I was focusing more on humor and satire than just good reading.  I have read some of the Black Library line %28Games Workshop%27s fiction line%29%2C most notably the Slayer novels.  I like the Warhammer Fantasy universe%2C and I found them a good collection of fantasy%2Fhorror.  I also read the Space Wolves books%2C but didn%27t like them as much.  Can%27t say why%3B they just didn%27t thrill me as much.  %0D%0A%0D%0AOther books worth mentioning%3A%0D%0A%0D%0AThe Bordertown books%2C edited by Terri Windling%2C and written by Windling%2C Emma Bull%2C Will Shetterly%2C and others.  Not to be confused with the Bordertown horror anthology by White Wolf.  Look for Shetterly%27s %28%5Bu%5DElsewhere%5B%2Fu%5D and %5Bu%5DNever-Never%5B%2Fu%5D%29 and Bull%27s %28%5Bu%5DFinder%5B%2Fu%5D%29 novels set in the same world%2C as well. %0D%0A%0D%0AThieves%27 World.  The original shared universe collection%2C edited by Robert Asprin.  Some of the baddest and the bravest characters in modern fantasy.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bu%5DFevre Dream%5B%2Fu%5D by George R. R. Martin.  Delightfully creepy%2C but hard to find.  I read it in high school and lucked across a copy at a book sale.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bu%5DGoblin Moon%5B%2Fu%5D and %5Bu%5DThe Gnome%27s Engine%5B%2Fu%5D by Theresa Edgerton.  Out of print%2C unfortunately%2C but fun.  Sort of Jane Austen meets modern fantasy.  Eighteenth century gentility%2C with cults%2C goblins%2C and worse.  %0D%0A%0D%0AAnd for those who have nothing better to do for the next three to six months%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bu%5DLes Miserables%5B%2Fu%5D by Victor Hugo.  A quintessential work on Humanity%27s treatment of itself.  Dealing with ignorance%2C intolerance%2C poverty%2C and revolution.  The musical%2C while enjoyable%2C doesn%27t do it justice.  My desert island book.%0D%0A%0D%0AEbony the Black Dragon%0D%0Aaka Draco Draconis Ebenium%0D%0Aknown to SFFWA as Aaron F. Johnson%2C%0D%0ASenior Editor%2C Living Room Games%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lrgames.com%0D%0A
35|3|27|||||RE%3A Thanks|NifT||16:53:18|06/14/2002|%3EAnd for those who have nothing better to do for the next three to six %0D%0A%3Emonths%3A %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%5Bu%5DLes Miserables%5B%2Fu%5D by Victor Hugo.  A quintessential work on %0D%0A%3EHumanity%27s treatment of itself.  Dealing with ignorance%2C intolerance%2C %0D%0A%3Epoverty%2C and revolution.  The musical%2C while enjoyable%2C doesn%27t do it %0D%0A%3Ejustice.  My desert island book. %0D%0A%0D%0AThree to six months%3F Took me just under two%2C but then%2C that was six years ago as a freshman in high school%2C so I could prolly read it faster now%28not that I want to %3E.%3C %29 I found Les Miz to be extremely long winded%2C overdetailed%2C and%2C to put it mildly%2C boring. The musical%2C on the other hand%2C what got me hooked on theatre%2C and still remains one of my favorites. %0D%0A I%27ll grant that a number of things from the book never made it into the musical%2C such as exactly how badly Marius treated Valjean after he discovered Valjean%27s checkered past%2C Cosette%27s sojourn at the abbey%2C or Valjean%27s escape at the docks%28though I can%27t remember the name of the ship%29%2C but I thought the musical much more emotive%2C dramatic%2C exciting%2C and extremely involving. I will admit%2C however%2C that my opinion may be biased by the fact that I discovered the musical first%2C and the book second. Ah well%2C there%27s my 2 bits.%0D%0A%0D%0A-NifT%0D%0AWho proudly used %27Empty Chairs at Empty Tables%27 as an audition piece for his high school%27s musical in %2798
28|2|26|||1||RE%3A Thanks|trigger||13:37:48|06/12/2002|[updated:LAST EDITED ON 06-12-02 AT 04:56 PM (EDT)]%3E%3E%22I am Zhang I-de of Yan%2C who dares fight me%21%22 - Zhang Fei%2C %27Romance of %0D%0A%3Ethe Three Kingdoms%27 %0D%0A%0D%0AYou have a copy of Romance of the Three Kingdoms%3F  %3Cdrool%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AEpic westerns include%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bli%5DShane%0D%0A%5Bli%5DThe Ferguson Rifle - Louis Lamour%0D%0A%5Bli%5DA Man called Noon - Louis Lamour%0D%0A%5Bli%5DMy Antonia - Willa Cather%0D%0A%5Bli%5DThe Long Winter - Laura Ingalls Wilder%0D%0A%5Bli%5DBury My Heart at Wounded Knee - Dee Brown %28not a novel%2C but should be in every American house%29%0D%0A%0D%0ARecommended Classicsn %28yeah%2C even old ones%2C but eventually modern%29%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bli%5D The Epic of Gilgamesh%0D%0A%5Bli%5D Exodus %28Torah%2C Book 2%29%0D%0A%5Bli%5D The Peloponesian War - Thucyddides%0D%0A%5Bli%5D Anabasis - Xenophon %0D%0A%5Bli%5D The Maharaphata or the Bhavagad Gita%0D%0A%5Bli%5D Campaigns in Gail - Julius Cesear%0D%0A%5Bli%5D The Germans - Tacitus%0D%0A%5Bli%5D The City of God - Augustine%0D%0A%5Bli%5D The Arabian Nights  - Sir Francis Burton%2C translator%0D%0A%5Bli%5D Beowulf  %28poetry%2C but not boring%29%0D%0A%5Bli%5D The Lay of the Werewolf - Marie de France %28look I found it for free%21 http%3A%2F%2Fshanmonster.bla-bla.com%2Fwitch%2Ffolklore%2Ffolk026.html %29%0D%0A%5Bli%5D Il Nome della Rose %28In the Name of the Rose%29 - Umberto Eco%0D%0A%5Bli%5D The Plays of William Shakespheare%0D%0A%5Bli%5D A Journal of the Plague Year - Daniel Defoe%0D%0A%5Bli%5D The Three Musketeers - Alexander Dumas%0D%0A%5Bli%5D The Wallet of Kai Lung - Ernest Bramah%0D%0A%5Bli%5D Last of the Mohichans - James Fenimore Cooper%0D%0A%5Bli%5D Indian Captive%3A The Story of Mary Jemison  - Lois Lenski%0D%0A%5Bli%5D Any of the Sharpe books by Bernard Cornwell %0D%0A%5Bli%5D Master and Commander - Patrick O%27Brien%0D%0A%5Bli%5D Pride and Prejudice  - Jane Austen%0D%0A%0D%0AI kinda danced around quite a bit%2C and stayed on the %22fictional%2Fadventure%22 story.  Hope you find some of these interesting.%0D%0A%0D%0At.%0D%0A%0D%0ATrigger Argee%0D%0Atrigger_argee%40hotmail.com%0D%0AManon%2C Maccadon%2C Orado%2C etc.%0D%0ADenton%2C never leave home without it.%0D%0A%0D%0A%22Pretty ambitious for a tree%2C isn%27t it%3F%22%0D%0A%0D%0A
32|3|28|||1||RE%3A Thanks|Arion||05:35:47|06/13/2002|%3E%3E%3E%22I am Zhang I-de of Yan%2C who dares fight me%21%22 - Zhang Fei%2C %27Romance of %0D%0A%3E%3Ethe Three Kingdoms%27 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYou have a copy of Romance of the Three Kingdoms%3F  %3Cdrool%3E %0D%0A%0D%0AYou can get more information about RTK and the availability of its books at this Singaporean website%27s forum %28Palace section%29%3A%0D%0A%0D%0ARomance of the Three Kingdoms Frontier %28http%3A%2F%2Fwww.3kingdoms.net%2F%29%0D%0A%0D%0AYou can actually download the entire book for free at here%3A%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.threekingdoms.com%2F%0D%0A%0D%0AGet it%2C you won%27t regret reading it. The Chinese had a saying%2C %22Don%27t read the Romance of the Three Kingdoms in your old age%22. It%27s not that the book is scary %3B%29 Just that if a youth reads it in detail%2C he would glean a lot of Chinese wisdom. Don%27t let the age thing scare people off %3B%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%22I%27ll go kill him%21%22 - Huang Zhong
30|2|26|||1||RE%3A Thanks|Gryphon||16:07:50|06/12/2002|%3EThere are%2C of course%2C the classic works of the Greeks and Roman %0D%0A%3Ehistorians%2Fwriters%2C but many are in poetry form and others%2C well%2C %0D%0A%3Edreary. Anything more modern dealing with%2C say%2C the Napoleonic Era%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AC.S. Forester%27s Horatio Hornblower novels come to mind.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor in Chief%2C Netadmin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited  http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A
31|3|30|||||RE%3A Thanks|Ebony||17:11:36|06/12/2002|%3E%3EThere are%2C of course%2C the classic works of the Greeks and Roman %0D%0A%3E%3Ehistorians%2Fwriters%2C but many are in poetry form and others%2C well%2C %0D%0A%3E%3Edreary. Anything more modern dealing with%2C say%2C the Napoleonic Era%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EC.S. Forester%27s Horatio Hornblower novels come to mind. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AAs Trigger mentioned above%2C Bernard Cornwell%27s Sharpe novels.  The first is %5Bu%5DSharpe%27s Rifles%5B%2Fu%5D.  They%27re set during the Napoleonic Wars.  There%27s also a set of mysteries with Jane Austen as the main character%2Fdetective.  My mother has read a few of them.  Can%27t remember the author%2C though.%0D%0A%0D%0AI would also suggest anything and everything by Arturo Perez-Reverte.  The English translations are excellent%2C and his adventures are enthralling.  Start with %5Bu%5DThe Club Dumas%5B%2Fu%5D and see how %22The Ninth Gate%22 got mangled by Polanski.  Others are %5Bu%5DThe Flanders Panel%5B%2Fu%5D%2C %5Bu%5DThe Seville Communion%5B%2Fu%5D%2C %5Bu%5DThe Fencing Master%5B%2Fu%5D%2C and %5Bu%5DThe Nautical Chart%5B%2Fu%5D.  I%27ve read all except the last%2C and they were all excellent thrillers and adventure stories.  %0D%0A%0D%0AEbony the Black Dragon%0D%0Aaka Draco Draconis Ebenium%0D%0Aknown to Amazon.com as Aaron F. Johnson%2C%0D%0ASenior Editor%2C Living Room Games%0D%0Ahttp%3B%2F%2Fwww.lrgames.com
33|2|26|||||RE%3A Thanks|jonathanlennox||14:23:01|06/13/2002|%3EThere are%2C of course%2C the classic works of the Greeks and Roman %0D%0A%3Ehistorians%2Fwriters%2C but many are in poetry form and others%2C well%2C %0D%0A%3Edreary. Anything more modern dealing with%2C say%2C the Napoleonic Era%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AI second the recommendation of the Horatio Hornblower books.%0D%0A%0D%0AAdditionally%2C it%27s a little bit later historically%2C roughly the latter two-thirds of the nineteenth century%2C but George Macdonald Fraser%27s Flashman books are %5Bb%5Dwonderful%5B%2Fb%5D.  Historical%2C action-packed%2C and terrifically funny.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- %0D%0AJonathan Lennox%0D%0Alennox%40cs.columbia.edu%0D%0A
34|3|33|||||RE%3A Thanks|drakensisthered||18:19:03|06/13/2002|%3E%3EThere are%2C of course%2C the classic works of the Greeks and Roman %0D%0A%3E%3Ehistorians%2Fwriters%2C but many are in poetry form and others%2C well%2C %0D%0A%3E%3Edreary. Anything more modern dealing with%2C say%2C the Napoleonic Era%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EI second the recommendation of the Horatio Hornblower books. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAdditionally%2C it%27s a little bit later historically%2C roughly the latter %0D%0A%3Etwo-thirds of the nineteenth century%2C but George Macdonald Fraser%27s %0D%0A%3EFlashman books are %5Bb%5Dwonderful%5B%2Fb%5D.  Historical%2C action-packed%2C and %0D%0A%3Eterrifically funny. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0AOh yeah%2C I%27d almost forgotten about those. Harry Flashman%2C with the VC and two Medals of Honour %28North and South%29 chasing women and fleeing danger around the Empire and beyond.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd if you like military books%2C I recommend anything by W.E.B. Griffin. %28I%27m rereading Under Fire right now%29. Not much action as such%2C but lots of plot and politics and well as characters who are nicely fallible.
36|4|34|||||a book%2Fauthor suggestion or three|Norgarth||12:13:48|06/22/2002|For a different take on one of the old fantasy themes%2C you may want to check out Eve Forward%27s %22Villians by Necessity%22%2C a tale in which the war between good and evil has been won%2C and now a small group of left over villians are trying to restore balance to the world.%0D%0A%0D%0AI also recommend L.E. Modesitt jr.  He writes mostly fantasy but he does SF as well.  %28the Recluse series%2C the Sapprano Sorceress series%2C and various stand alone stories%29%0D%0A%0D%0AI%27ve always enjoyed David Brin%27s Uplift universe%2C especially Startide Rising.  The only problem is he tends to start off with the action already commencing%2C then fills you in on what brought the cast to that point later. Sort of like the way Star Wars%3A A New Hope started with Vader%27s SD already chasing down Leia%27s vessel.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe first time I read Startide Rising I thought it was a sequel. 8%29
37|5|36|||||RE%3A a book%2Fauthor suggestion or three|dbrandon||12:44:15|06/25/2002|I know I%27m coming a couple weeks late to this thread%2C but anyway%2C I just wanted to push the three books series %28not really a trilogy%29 by Barry Hughart.  _Bridge of Birds_ is the first one%2C and I think it%27s still in print%2C the others are harder to find.  They%27ve been described as sort of Indiana Jones meets Sherlock Holmes set in an ancient China where magic and gods are real.  Very neat stuff.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- %0D%0ADan Brandon%0D%0A%0D%0A