18||0|2538|0|yes 0|0|0|||1||song%2C 2007.04.17|Gryphon||09:46:13|04/17/2007|The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down%0D%0AOf the big lake they call Gitche Gumee%0D%0AThe lake%2C it is said%2C never gives up her dead%0D%0AWhen the skies of November turn gloomy%0D%0AWith a load of iron ore 26%2C000 tons more%0D%0AThan the %5Bi%5DEdmund Fitzgerald%5B%2Fi%5D weighed empty%0D%0AThat big ship and true was a bone to be chewed%0D%0AWhen the gales of November came early%0D%0A%0D%0AThe ship was the pride of the American side%0D%0AComing back from some mill in Wisconsin%0D%0AAs the big freighters go%2C it was bigger than most%0D%0AWith a crew and good captain well-seasoned%0D%0AConcluding some terms with a couple of steel firms%0D%0AWhen they left fully loaded for Cleveland%0D%0AAnd later that night when the ship%27s bell rang%0D%0ACould it be the north wind they%27d been feeling%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AThe wind in the wire made a tattletale sound%0D%0AAnd a wave broke over the railing%0D%0AAnd every man knew as the captain did too%0D%0A%27Twas the witch of November come stealing%0D%0AThe dawn came late and the breakfast had to wait%0D%0AWhen the gales of November came slashing%0D%0AWhen afternoon came it was freezing rain%0D%0AIn the face of a hurricane west wind%0D%0A%0D%0AWhen suppertime came the old cook came on deck%0D%0ASaying %22Fellas%2C it%27s too rough to feed you%22%0D%0AAt seven p.m. a main hatchway caved in%0D%0AHe said %22Fellas%2C it%27s been good to know you%22%0D%0AThe captain wired in he had water coming in%0D%0AAnd the big ship and crew was in peril%0D%0AAnd later that night%2C well%2C their lights went out of sight%0D%0AIn the wreck of the %5Bi%5DEdmund Fitzgerald%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0ADoes anyone know where the love of God goes%0D%0AWhen the waves turn the minutes to hours%3F%0D%0AThe searchers all say they%27d have made Whitefish Bay%0D%0AIf they%27d put 15 more miles behind her%0D%0AThey might%27ve split up or they might%27ve capsized%0D%0AThey may have broke deep and took water%0D%0AAnd all that remains is the faces and the names%0D%0AOf the wives and the sons and the daughters%0D%0A%0D%0ALake Huron rolls%2C Superior sings%0D%0AIn the rooms of her ice water mansion%0D%0AOld Michigan steams like a young man%27s dreams%0D%0AThe islands and bays are for sportsmen%0D%0AFarther below Lake Ontario%0D%0ATakes in what Lake Erie can send her%0D%0AAnd the iron boats go%2C as the mariners all know%0D%0AWhere the gales of November remember%0D%0A%0D%0AIn a musty old hall in Detroit they pray%0D%0AIn the Maritime Sailors%27 Cathedral%0D%0AThe church bell chimed %27til it rang 29 times%0D%0AFor each man on the %5Bi%5DEdmund Fitzgerald%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0AThe legend lives on from the Chippewa on down%0D%0AOf the big lake they call Gitche Gumee%0D%0ASuperior%2C they said%2C never gives up her dead%0D%0AWhen the gales of November come early%0D%0A%0D%0A - Gordon Lightfoot%0D%0A%22The Wreck of the %5Bi%5DEdmund Fitzgerald%5B%2Fi%5D%22%0D%0A%5Bi%5DSummer Dream%5B%2Fi%5D %281976%29 1|1|0|||||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|simonz||16:39:55|04/17/2007|Not by any chance a reference to the Danzig is it%3F 3|2|1|||||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|jadmire||18:31:14|04/17/2007|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-07 AT 06:35 PM (EDT)]My guess actually is that it refers to an as-yet-unidentified IPSF ship that%27s gone down with all hands in a natural catastrophe. Enigma Sector is notoriously full of navigational hazards%2C after all...%0D%0A%0D%0A-Joe-%0D%0A%0D%0AP.S. I had an online acquaintance back a few years ago who was actually present on the scene%2C more or less%2C when the %5Bi%5DEdmund Fitzgerald%5B%2Fi%5D went down. She was a journalist for a local paper on the Upper Peninsula. 4|3|3|||||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|simonz||11:08:22|04/18/2007|%3EMy guess actually is that it refers to an as-yet-unidentified IPSF %0D%0A%3Eship that%27s gone down with all hands in a natural catastrophe. Enigma %0D%0A%3ESector is notoriously full of navigational hazards%2C after all... %0D%0A%0D%0AI was looking at it %28after checking out the wiki article on the Edmund Fitzgerald%29 as being a very similar situation%2C ie the ship having contact and suddenly going down%2C losing all hands%2C etc. I was hoping it might be a sign that we would be finding out soon just what happened to Kei when the Danzig was lost. 6|3|3|||1||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|wxnut||21:08:27|04/18/2007|I thought the song has more to do with the big nor%27easter that went through New England just recently.%0D%0A%0D%0AZack Seaholm - Anime fan%2C weathernut%2C worshipper of the goddess Belldandy.%0D%0A%0D%0AToday%27s global thermonuclear war tactic%3A %5Bi%5DAlbanian Decoy%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0AWinner%3A %5Bi%5DNone%5B%2Fi%5D 7|4|6|||||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|jadmire||05:02:22|04/19/2007|Not just New England%2C the whole East Coast. I drove through it on my way back through North Carolina to Northern Virginia on Sunday. However%2C it could be a reference to a UF version of such a storm. I was just thinking yesterday that New Avalon has nor%27easters too%2C in fact%2C it was explicitly mentioned in one story. Maybe one of the big freighters that shuttles goods between Kaiser Island and the Port of New Avalon gets caught in one%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A-Joe- 8|5|7|||1||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|wxnut||20:02:47|04/19/2007|%3EI %0D%0A%3Ewas just thinking yesterday that New Avalon has nor%27easters too%2C in %0D%0A%3Efact%2C it was explicitly mentioned in one story. Maybe one of the big %0D%0A%3Efreighters that shuttles goods between Kaiser Island and the Port of %0D%0A%3ENew Avalon gets caught in one%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s a big Dyson Sphere... I%27m sure there%27s an equivalent to the Great Lakes %5Bu%5Dsomewhere%5B%2Fu%5D on it.%0D%0A%0D%0AZack Seaholm - Anime fan%2C weathernut%2C worshipper of the goddess Belldandy.%0D%0A%0D%0AToday%27s global thermonuclear war tactic%3A %5Bi%5DEnglish Escalation%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0AWinner%3A %5Bi%5DNone%5B%2Fi%5D 9|6|8|||||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|jadmire||20:18:45|04/19/2007|Certainly. It%27s called Lake Daniels. I don%27t think it%27s ever stated exactly how big the lake is%2C but I believe Gryphon has said that%2C like the Great Lakes on Earth%2C it%27s really a freshwater inland sea%2C and we know that it extends eastward at least a hundred miles %28to Kaiser and Terminal Islands%29 and probably borders the pseudocontinent along its entire length%3B according to %5Bi%5DCSI New Avalon%3A Parallel Lines%5B%2Fi%5D%2C the pseudocontinent extends at least 1%2C000 miles south%2Fsouthwest of the city so probably a comparable distance to the north %28or shorter considering that New Avalon is at a %22northerly%22 location comparable to Boston%2FToronto%29. And Lake Daniels definitely gets nor%27easters. So...%0D%0A%0D%0A-Joe- 10|6|8|||||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|asuffield||06:42:48|04/20/2007|%3E%3EI %0D%0A%3E%3Ewas just thinking yesterday that New Avalon has nor%27easters too%2C in %0D%0A%3E%3Efact%2C it was explicitly mentioned in one story. Maybe one of the big %0D%0A%3E%3Efreighters that shuttles goods between Kaiser Island and the Port of %0D%0A%3E%3ENew Avalon gets caught in one%3F %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EIt%27s a big Dyson Sphere... I%27m sure there%27s an equivalent to the Great %0D%0A%3ELakes %5Bu%5Dsomewhere%5B%2Fu%5D on it.%0D%0A%0D%0APeople always have difficulty comprehending quite how large a Dyson Sphere is. You could fit over 600 %5Bb%5Dmillion%5B%2Fb%5D scale models of the Earth%27s surface in there and still have enough space left over for New Avalon. Given the nature of the people who run the place%2C there is probably all kinds of bizarre junk on it%2C including a mountain range made from ice cream %28old birthday present for Skuld%29 and a scale map of Mars %28site of a Larry Niven fan convention%29 somewhere on it.%0D%0A 11|7|10|||1||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|Gryphon||09:10:53|04/20/2007|%3Eand a scale map %0D%0A%3Eof Mars %28site of a Larry Niven fan convention%29 somewhere on it. %0D%0A%0D%0AFor historical reasons%2C it would be extremely unlikely for the sphere%27s owners to go to any particular trouble for the sake of a Larry Niven convention. Back in the %2780s%2C the WPI Science Fiction Society used to host an annual sci-fi convention%2C Technicon%2C on campus. That ended the year Larry Niven was the guest of honor. The %5Bi%5DSFS%5B%2Fi%5D nearly ended the year Larry Niven was the guest of honor.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn conclusion%2C fuck Larry Niven.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Admin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 12|8|11|||1||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|Mephron||10:57:57|04/20/2007|%3EIn conclusion%2C fuck Larry Niven. %0D%0A%0D%0AAlso%2C he%27s turned into the biggest hack this side of John Norman %28writer of the %7B...%7D Of Gor series%29. I loved Ringworld%2C enjoyed Ringworld Engineers%2C enjoyed Tales Of Known Space%2C am a fan of Gil The Arm. Ringworld Throne was UNREADABLE. I haven%27t tried anything since.%0D%0A%0D%0A--%0D%0AGeoff Depew - Darth Mephron%0D%0AHaberdasher to Androids%2C Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.%0D%0A%22And Remember%21 Google is your Friend%21%21%22 13|8|11|||1||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|twipper||13:48:41|04/20/2007|I sense a good %28if not paticularly fun%29 %22Off the Top of My Head%22 story here.%0D%0A%0D%0AHaving been on con committees in the past%2C I can appreciate the problems caused by the guest of honor. However%2C I%27ve never had anything quite that bad happen.%0D%0A%0D%0ABrian%0D%0A 14|8|11|||1||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|McFortner||15:32:17|04/20/2007|I was a committee member for a convention in Omaha back in the early 90s that had him as a guest of honor. He was very%2C how do I put it%2C put out with people who were not his idea of what a proper fan of his should be%3A fawning but not fanboyish is the closest I can come up with. And you only got a few seconds to make an impression with him. Once you were on the shit list%2C it was all over.%0D%0A%0D%0AI liked Ringworld and even borrowed it for a Spelljammer campaign I was running. Yep%2C that put me on the shit list in record time %28less than 2 seconds IIRC%29.%0D%0A%0D%0ASo yes%2C he can be a prick. But can%27t we all%3F %3B%29%0D%0A%0D%0AMichael%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd width%3D%2265%22%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.railroadforum.com%2Fupload%2Fmcfortner%2Fsabrina.gif%5B%2Ftd%5D%0D%0A%5Btd%5D%5Bfont color%3D%22black%22 size%3D-1%5DMichael C. Fortner%5B%2Ffont%5D%5Bfont color%3D%22red%22 size%3D-1%5D %0D%0ARCW %232%5Bsup%5Dn%5B%2Fsup%5D%2B1%5B%2Ffont%5D%0D%0A%5Bfont color%3D%22green%22 size%3D-1%5D%22I smoke in moderation. Only one cigar at a time.%22%0D%0A-- Mark Twain%0D%0A%5Bfont%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D %0D%0A 15|9|14|||1||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|BobSchroeck||23:35:53|04/20/2007|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-20-07 AT 11:36 PM (EDT)]%3EHe was very%2C how do I put it%2C put out with people who were not his idea of what a%0D%0A%3Eproper fan of his should be%3A fawning but not fanboyish is the closest I can come%0D%0A%3Eup with. And you only got a few seconds to make an impression with him. Once you%0D%0A%3Ewere on the shit list%2C it was all over.%0D%0A%0D%0AGeeze%2C I must have lucked out then... About ten years ago at a Philcon%2C Niven and I were sitting next to each other at a publisher%27s party%2C and ended up just chatting away with each other for a good twenty minutes to a half-hour. I can%27t even remember about %5Bi%5Dwhat%5B%2Fi%5D%2C but apparently I made a good impression%2C if what you say is true...%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Bob%0D%0A-------------------%0D%0AThe President is on the line%0D%0AAs ninety-nine crab rangoons go by... 16|10|15|||1||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|Gryphon||00:17:13|04/21/2007|%3EGeeze%2C I must have lucked out then... About ten years ago at a %0D%0A%3EPhilcon%2C Niven and I were sitting next to each other at a publisher%27s %0D%0A%3Eparty%2C and ended up just chatting away with each other for a good %0D%0A%3Etwenty minutes to a half-hour. I can%27t even remember about %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5Dwhat%5B%2Fi%5D%2C but apparently I made a good impression%2C if what you say %0D%0A%3Eis true... %0D%0A%0D%0APerhaps when you encountered him%2C he was sober.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhen he showed up for the Last Technicon%3F Not so much.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Admin%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0A 17|11|16|||1||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|Offsides||00:27:44|04/21/2007|%3E%3EGeeze%2C I must have lucked out then... About ten years ago at a %0D%0A%3E%3EPhilcon%2C Niven and I were sitting next to each other at a publisher%27s %0D%0A%3E%3Eparty%2C and ended up just chatting away with each other for a good %0D%0A%3E%3Etwenty minutes to a half-hour. I can%27t even remember about %0D%0A%3E%3E%5Bi%5Dwhat%5B%2Fi%5D%2C but apparently I made a good impression%2C if what you say %0D%0A%3E%3Eis true... %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EPerhaps when you encountered him%2C he was sober. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EWhen he showed up for the Last Technicon%3F Not so much. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0AVery possible. I seem to recall running into him at Albacon in 2001 and having a pleasant conversation with him myself. But then again%2C I didn%27t know who he was initially %28I realized it when I saw his badge%29%2C and I%27ve never read any of his book either. It%27s one of several experiences I%27ve had with %22celebrities%22 where I%27ve just treated them as normal people %28usually because I didn%27t realize who they were%29%2C and ended up having decent conversations with them...%0D%0A%0D%0AOffsides%0D%0A%0D%0A%26%2391%3B...%26%2393%3B in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.%0D%0A -- David Ben Gurion%0D%0AEPU RCW %23%26pi%3B%0D%0A%23include %3Cstdsig.h%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A 18|11|16|||||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|VoidRandom||07:18:02|05/28/2007|Probably...Both he and Jerry Pournelle quit drinking sometime in the 90s. And a good thing too. Every so often I hear a drunk Larry and%2For Jerry story I%27ve not heard before from aquaintances in the LASFS. 2|1|0|||1||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|SpottedKitty||17:35:34|04/17/2007|Hmm. I only know this one because there%27s a filk to the same tune%3A %5Bi%5DThe Ballad of Apollo XIII%5B%2Fi%5D%2C which I%27ve heard was sung to one of the Apollo 13 astronauts at a convention.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- %0D%0AUnable to save the day%3A File is read-only. 5|1|0|||||RE%3A song%2C 2007.04.17|trboturtle||12:48:54|04/18/2007|That is probably ther most haunting song I%27ve ever heard. I had never heard of the %5Bi%5DEdmund Fitzgerald%5B%2Fi%5D before this song%2C but after hearing it and seeing a couple of shows about the incident%2C it%27s hard to forget%2C especially the last two lines of the song....%0D%0A%0D%0ACraig