28||0|4436|0| 0|0|0|||1||a helpful visual reference%21|Mephron||23:31:43|06/10/2015|For those wondering about the Centre Pompidou in Paris. mentioned derisively in the First Symphony story %22The Rose That Blooms In The City Of Light%22%27%2C please see the last image in this tory in the New York Times Magazine%3A%0D%0A%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2Finteractive%2F2015%2F06%2F05%2Ft-magazine%2Farchitects-libeskind-zaha-hadid-selldorf-norman-foster.html%0D%0A%0D%0AIT REALLY IS THAT UGLY.%0D%0A%0D%0A--%0D%0AGeoff Depew - Darth Mephron%0D%0AHaberdasher to Androids%2C Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.%0D%0A%22And Remember%21 Google is your Friend%21%21%22 1|1|0|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Nova Floresca||00:50:34|06/11/2015|Are we sure it%27s really modernist architecture%2C and they didn%27t just%2C I dunno%2C forget to draw the outside of the building before construction started%2C and then BS their way out of it%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A%22This is probably a stupid question%2C but . . .%22 2|2|1|||||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|TheOtherSean||02:12:33|06/11/2015|%3EAre we sure it%27s really modernist architecture%2C and they didn%27t just%2C %0D%0A%3EI dunno%2C forget to draw the outside of the building before %0D%0A%3Econstruction started%2C and then BS their way out of it%3F %0D%0A%0D%0AIt looks like somebody took the main process portion of a chemical plant %28or refinery%2C sans the fractionating column%29 and plopped it down in a city. All that%27s missing is the tank farm. On second thought%2C with the way it is painted%2C it more resembles the 3D models of a process plant%2C where various components are color-coded during the CAD work%2C rather than being shown photo-realistic. %0D%0A%0D%0AI love the factoid from that article about a resident of Paris attacking one of the architects when she discovered he was one of those responsible for it. 6|3|2|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Gryphon||19:13:21|06/11/2015|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-15 AT 07:18 PM (EDT)]%3EI love the factoid from that article about a resident of Paris %0D%0A%3Eattacking one of the architects when she discovered he was one of %0D%0A%3Ethose responsible for it. %0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s worth noting%2C perhaps%2C that Parisians are not historically adept at gauging these things%3A the Eiffel Tower was roundly hated when it was new%2C with many of the leading literary figures of Paris bleating that they would have to eat at its restaurant because you couldn%27t see the building from there.%0D%0A%0D%0AThat said%2C my beef with the Pompidou isn%27t necessarily that it%27s %5Bi%5Dugly%5B%2Fi%5D as that it%27s %5Bi%5Dprecious%5B%2Fi%5D about it. It%27s ugly on purpose%2C as if the architects actually went out of their way to %5Bi%5Dtaunt%5B%2Fi%5D the people who were concerned that it wouldn%27t fit in with the context in which it was being constructed. %22You better %5Bi%5Dbelieve%5B%2Fi%5D it won%27t%21 Filthy plebs. %5Bi%5DYou don%27t understand my art%21%5B%2Fi%5D%22%0D%0A%0D%0AAlso on the subjects raised in that article%2C I find I rather like the BT Tower%2C although less so now that it has no actual use. But I%27m rather fond of those %22antenna%22 buildings in general %28the Space Needle%2C the CN Tower%2C the Kuwait Liberation Tower%2C those other ones in Kuwait City with the giant disco balls%29. I can%27t see being down on the Tempelhof terminal building either. That%27s what a major airport%27s public face %5Bi%5Dshould%5B%2Fi%5D look like%2C not those godawful shopping mall things we have nowadays. Major travel hubs should be like Grand Central Terminal or the old Penn Station%2C regardless of mode of transport involved. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D%5D 3|1|0|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|The Traitor||08:41:18|06/11/2015|HA HA MODERNISM IS SILLY UGLY RUBBISH ARCHITECTURE STOPPED HAVING ANY MERIT AT ALL AFTER ABOUT EIGHTEEN EIGHTY-SIX HA HA HA fuck that noise.%0D%0A%0D%0A---%0D%0A%22She%27s old%2C she%27s lame%2C she%27s barren too%2C %2F%2F %22She%27s not worth feed or hay%2C %2F%2F %22But I%27ll give her this%2C%22 - he blew smoke at me - %2F%2F %22She was something in her day.%22 -- Garnet Rogers%2C %5Bi%5DSmall Victory%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0AFiMFiction.net%3A we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have %5Bi%5Dstandards%5B%2Fi%5D. 4|1|0|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|MoonEyes||11:39:44|06/11/2015|%3EIT REALLY IS THAT UGLY. %0D%0A%0D%0ANo....no%2C it isn%27t. It is%2C in fact%2C EVEN UGLIER%21%0D%0A%0D%0A...%21%0D%0AGott%27s Leetle Feesh in Trousers%21 5|1|0|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|SpottedKitty||18:59:34|06/11/2015|I%27ve been there. Yes%2C yes it is.%0D%0A%0D%0AOne other comment caught my eye on that page%2C about the two cereal box%2Fspace heater skyscrapers in Albany%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThe New York Times called it %E2%80%98%E2%80%98a grandiose%2C utter folly%E2%80%99%E2%80%99 whose %E2%80%98%E2%80%98powerful sense %0D%0A%3Eof place . . . appears to be more the planet Krypton than the capital of the %0D%0A%3Estate of New York.%E2%80%99%E2%80%99%0D%0A%0D%0A%3Csnrk%3E%0D%0A%0D%0A-- %0D%0AUnable to save the day%3A File is read-only. 7|2|5|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Gryphon||19:22:49|06/11/2015|[updated:LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-15 AT 07:23 PM (EDT)]%3EOne other comment caught my eye on that page%2C about the two cereal %0D%0A%3Ebox%2Fspace heater skyscrapers in Albany%3A %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EThe New York Times called it %E2%80%98%E2%80%98a grandiose%2C utter folly%E2%80%99%E2%80%99 whose %E2%80%98%E2%80%98powerful sense %0D%0A%3E%3Eof place . . . appears to be more the planet Krypton than the capital of the %0D%0A%3E%3Estate of New York.%E2%80%99%E2%80%99%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%3Csnrk%3E %0D%0A%0D%0AThought experiment%3A play %5Blink%3Awww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DypLgvMwN_VY%7Cthis clip%5D%2C pan slowly over a large photograph of Empire State Plaza.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D 27|2|5|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|JeanneHedge||14:38:56|06/13/2015|%3EI%27ve been there. Yes%2C yes it is. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EOne other comment caught my eye on that page%2C about the two cereal %0D%0A%3Ebox%2Fspace heater skyscrapers in Albany%3A %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%3EThe New York Times called it %E2%80%98%E2%80%98a grandiose%2C utter folly%E2%80%99%E2%80%99 whose %E2%80%98%E2%80%98powerful sense %0D%0A%3E%3Eof place . . . appears to be more the planet Krypton than the capital of the %0D%0A%3E%3Estate of New York.%E2%80%99%E2%80%99%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3E%3Csnrk%3E %0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AMy thought was that those buildings must cause some big wind tunnel effect between them%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AJeanne%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Btable border%3D%220%22 cellspacing%3D%220%22 cellpadding%3D%220%22 width%3D%2280%25%22%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd align%3D%22center%22 width%3D%2210%25%22%5Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.jhedge.com%2Fmisc%2Foldowl.jpg%5B%2Ftd%5D%5Btd valign%3Dtop%5D%5Bfont size%3D2%5D%5Bb%5DJeanne Hedge%5B%2Fb%5D%5Bbr%5D%5Bfont size%3D1%5D%5Blink%3Awww.jhedge.com%7Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.jhedge.com%5D%5Bbr%5D1st Courier of the Heavenly Prophets for %5Bi%5D%5Blink%3Awww.kickstarter.com%2Fprojects%2F326055564%2Ftianxia-blood-silk-and-jade%7CTianxia%5D%5Bbr%5D%22Never give up%2C never surrender%21%22%5B%2Ffont%5D%0D%0A%5B%2Fi%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5Btr%5D%5Btd colspan%3D%222%22%5D%5Bhr size%3D%221%22 noshade%5D%5B%2Ftd%5D%5B%2Ftr%5D%5B%2Ftable%5D 8|1|0|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|BobSchroeck||20:57:26|06/11/2015|%3EIT REALLY IS THAT UGLY. %0D%0A%0D%0APersonally%2C I don%27t think it%27s all that ugly -- just very horribly situated. It %5Bi%5Ddoes%5B%2Fi%5D clash violently with its surroundings%2C and probably would have been better suited to an area with somewhat more modern design. Then again%2C I%27m sure that it was someone%27s idea of a %22statement%22.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- Bob%0D%0A-------------------%0D%0AMy race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite. 9|1|0|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Gryphon||01:57:25|06/12/2015|Speaking of godawful modernist architecture%2C %5Blink%3Awww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fresources%2Fidt-3cca82c0-af80-4c3a-8a79-84fda5015115%7Ccheck out what this guy wants the cities of the future to look like%5D.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s an interesting concept%2C but holy shit%2C that would be some bleak-ass futurescape.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D 11|2|9|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|The Traitor||05:41:03|06/12/2015|Gryphon%2C I%27m sorry to disagree with you%2C but... no%2C actually%2C no I%27m not. Your assessment is just plain wrong. This isn%27t just designed for aesthetic purposes - it%27s designed for %5Bi%5Ddisaster relief%5B%2Fi%5D%2C giving people shelter after%2C say%2C an earthquake hits. While it almost certainly won%27t %5Bi%5Djust%5B%2Fi%5D be used for that%2C because it%27s a very convenient%2C easily-constructed model for densely-populated places like China%27s urban areas or Japan%27s Japan%2C this is an enormous%2C safe building that can be constructed very%2C very quickly. Instant non-tent refugee camp%2C just add running water and power. I%27m in favour of that%2C if it means less people are without shelter when natural disasters hit.%0D%0A%0D%0A---%0D%0A%22She%27s old%2C she%27s lame%2C she%27s barren too%2C %2F%2F %22She%27s not worth feed or hay%2C %2F%2F %22But I%27ll give her this%2C%22 - he blew smoke at me - %2F%2F %22She was something in her day.%22 -- Garnet Rogers%2C %5Bi%5DSmall Victory%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0AFiMFiction.net%3A we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have %5Bi%5Dstandards%5B%2Fi%5D. 13|3|11|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Gryphon||13:52:45|06/12/2015|%3EGryphon%2C I%27m sorry to disagree with you%2C but... no%2C actually%2C no I%27m %0D%0A%3Enot. Your assessment is just plain wrong. This isn%27t just designed for %0D%0A%3Eaesthetic purposes - it%27s designed for %5Bi%5Ddisaster relief%5B%2Fi%5D%2C giving %0D%0A%3Epeople shelter after%2C say%2C an earthquake hits.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt was %5Bi%5Dinspired%5B%2Fi%5D by%2Ffor disaster relief%2C which is laudable%2C but the rest of the article pretty clearly indicates to me that the guy%27s ambition has since run away with him%2C and he%27s now taking the view%2C %22We should just build %5Bi%5Deverything%5B%2Fi%5D like this%21 %22%0D%0A%0D%0AYou don%27t build a 30-story skyscraper%2C much less plan the world%27s tallest building%2C as a showcase for disaster relief shelter technology. You do that if you%27re drunk on your new idea%27s potential and have %5Bi%5Dno conception%5B%2Fi%5D of how miserable it would be to actually live in the cities that result from your Vision.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28Also%2C I personally would not much care to live in%2C or within being-fallen-on distance of%2C a multi-story structure some dudes built in a couple days. Call me conservative. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D 14|4|13|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|The Traitor||14:52:52|06/12/2015|Okay then%2C since you%27ve invited me to%2C yes%2C I do think you%27re being conservative. I think your entire universe is marked by a certain aesthetic conservatism%2C which I get was your intention from the get-go %28UF is basically Star Trek crossed with a John Hughes movie%2C after all%29%2C and I think you%27re too eager to dismiss stuff if it doesn%27t fit into a very traditional idea of beauty or aesthetic value. This is amazing. Someone built a safe%2C sturdy building that rises up high into the sky scant weeks after breaking ground. This is brilliant for disaster relief and while we had a failed experiment with brutalist architecture in the Sixties%2C I think you can turn this idea into fleets of temporary accommodation as an alternative to places like the camps at Sangatte. And by the way%2C I happen to think that with a more ecologically harmonious approach - climbing plants%2C say%2C or those new vertical garden things - it could be made to look rather pleasant. Almost like a skyscraper designed by hobbits.%0D%0A%0D%0ANow%2C I freely admit this is me being pretentious%2C and I don%27t care. I%27m not as conservative in my tastes as you are%2C and that%27s fine. I just don%27t particularly like it when people decide that everything that happened in a medium after the year Dot has no value and must be purged. It happens with art%2C it happens with architecture%2C and it happens with every other artistic medium %28cf. all the nerd rage about %22artsy%22 games that are%2C y%27know%2C not brown shooters where you shoot various forrn people%29. But I respect your right to say so%2C and I hope you respect mine to disagree with you.%0D%0A%0D%0A---%0D%0A%22She%27s old%2C she%27s lame%2C she%27s barren too%2C %2F%2F %22She%27s not worth feed or hay%2C %2F%2F %22But I%27ll give her this%2C%22 - he blew smoke at me - %2F%2F %22She was something in her day.%22 -- Garnet Rogers%2C %5Bi%5DSmall Victory%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0AFiMFiction.net%3A we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have %5Bi%5Dstandards%5B%2Fi%5D. 15|5|14|||||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Proginoskes||15:15:47|06/12/2015|I think a distinction needs to be drawn between %5Bem%5Daesthetic%5B%2Fem%5D conservatism%2C which is a matter of taste and therefore not proper grounds for dismissal or distain%2C and %5Bem%5Dengineering%5B%2Fem%5D conservatism%2C which is just plain good sense. A building thrown up in two weeks as disaster relief should be thrown %5Bem%5Dout%5B%2Fem%5D in a few years%2C because an engineer errs on the side of pessimism%2C and the durability of a structure is usually directly related to the care and time spent putting it together. That thing is gonna come down sooner or later%3B better to demolish it safely than to have it collapse on the residents and neighbours. 17|6|15|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Gryphon||15:21:52|06/12/2015|%3EI think a distinction needs to be drawn between %5Bem%5Daesthetic%5B%2Fem%5D %0D%0A%3Econservatism%2C which is a matter of taste and therefore not proper %0D%0A%3Egrounds for dismissal or distain%2C and %5Bem%5Dengineering%5B%2Fem%5D %0D%0A%3Econservatism%2C which is just plain good sense.%0D%0A%0D%0AYes - although to be perfectly fair%2C in this case I will willingly hold up my hand to both. I have grave reservations about the engineering value of the building method in question %5Bi%5Dand%5B%2Fi%5D I think the results are a splinter in the eye of the world. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D 18|7|17|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Verbena||17:22:22|06/12/2015|%3E%3EI think a distinction needs to be drawn between %5Bem%5Daesthetic%5B%2Fem%5D %0D%0A%3E%3Econservatism%2C which is a matter of taste and therefore not proper %0D%0A%3E%3Egrounds for dismissal or distain%2C and %5Bem%5Dengineering%5B%2Fem%5D %0D%0A%3E%3Econservatism%2C which is just plain good sense.%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EYes - although to be perfectly fair%2C in this case I will willingly %0D%0A%3Ehold up my hand to both. I have grave reservations about the %0D%0A%3Eengineering value of the building method in question %5Bi%5Dand%5B%2Fi%5D I %0D%0A%3Ethink the results are a splinter in the eye of the world. %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0AWell. I usually don%27t say this in so many words%2C but I -do- consider myself mostly conservative--libertarian%2C actually.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd that has almost nothing to do with why I think this architect is barking up the wrong tree.%0D%0A%0D%0AOkay%2C yes%2C I happen to think climate change is a scam and this guy%27s reasons for doing this are hilarious. But disasters of all stripes do happen and disaster relief is certainly a laudable goal. If he can sell people on structures that are designed to resist disasters%2C well%2C he%27s got a market and more power to him.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe problem is%2C that%27s not what he%27s doing.%0D%0A%0D%0AI mean%2C sure%2C he%27s selling a product%2C and to my surprise the BBC had the integrity to bring up problems people have had with these kinds of designs in the past%2C though they probably should have interviewed someone who disagrees with his vision. I%2C for one%2C wonder how he%27s going to efficiently heat and cool a preconstructed steel building. I also have a hard time buying the idea that preconstructed steel at that height is going to resist a serious earthquake%2C no matter what tests he%27s run. As I look through the article%2C I see a number of the caveats I had crop up%2C like the sheer sameness of every single apartment and possible pitfalls of modular construction. %28I didn%27t know about water seepage specifically%2C but there had to be some reason it wasn%27t already being used.%29 Also%2C none of the exterior windows can open%3F For a greenie%2C he seems awfully against fresh air. All the air they have will be processed%2C and it%27s not going to look like a very safe building if the air handling system goes down. Also%2C cost. He insists his buildings are cheap to construct%2C but the article doesn%27t make any mention of anyone looking at his books.%0D%0A%0D%0AWhat he%27s really doing%2C though%2C is selling a philosophy. He%27s a crusader%2C and a very egotistical one at that. I don%27t see anything in the article other than his own blithe assertions that a bunch of his buildings -would- use resources more efficiently. I mean it can%27t help but be efficient in land use%2C sure%2C but electricity%3F Gas%3F Water%3F He%27s making a lot of claims%2C but he comes across as a True Believer%2C and True Believers make claims like that whether or not they can back them.%0D%0A%0D%0AAs for aesthetics%2C I don%27t actually mind the outside of the building. I like the stepped%2C terraced look and exterior mirror windows. The inside%2C however%2C I can%27t help but imagine would look incredibly soulless and industrial. Houseplants and maybe a landscape mural aren%27t going to be enough to shake off that sheer sameness that will plague every floor.%0D%0A%0D%0AWe%27ll see in the future whether he can back up his promises. I admit%2C however%2C I am not holding my breath.%0D%0A%0D%0A------%0D%0A Fearless creatures%2C we all learn to fight the Reaper%0D%0A Can%27t defeat Her%2C so instead I%27ll have to be Her 20|8|18|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|The Traitor||17:45:03|06/12/2015|There is a certain delicious irony in a climate change denialist calling someone %5Bi%5Delse%5B%2Fi%5D a True Believer%2C but that%27s not germane to the discussion%2C now%2C is it%3F %3D%5D%0D%0A%0D%0A---%0D%0A%22She%27s old%2C she%27s lame%2C she%27s barren too%2C %2F%2F %22She%27s not worth feed or hay%2C %2F%2F %22But I%27ll give her this%2C%22 - he blew smoke at me - %2F%2F %22She was something in her day.%22 -- Garnet Rogers%2C %5Bi%5DSmall Victory%5B%2Fi%5D%0D%0A%0D%0AFiMFiction.net%3A we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have %5Bi%5Dstandards%5B%2Fi%5D.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bsmall%5DClearly those islands in Panama and the Maldives and so on that sank because of rising sea levels caused by climate change and led to the enforced repatriation of thousands are just fucking %5Bi%5Dhiding%5B%2Fi%5D.%5B%2Fsmall%5D 22|9|20|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Gryphon||18:18:11|06/12/2015|Kids. Let%27s not. Just... let%27s not.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D 21|8|18|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Gryphon||18:17:44|06/12/2015|%3E%3EYes - although to be perfectly fair%2C in this case I will willingly %0D%0A%3E%3Ehold up my hand to both. I have grave reservations about the %0D%0A%3E%3Eengineering value of the building method in question %5Bi%5Dand%5B%2Fi%5D I %0D%0A%3E%3Ethink the results are a splinter in the eye of the world. %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3EWell. I usually don%27t say this in so many words%2C but I -do- consider %0D%0A%3Emyself mostly conservative--libertarian%2C actually. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EAnd that has almost nothing to do with why I think this architect is %0D%0A%3Ebarking up the wrong tree. %0D%0A%0D%0AFor that matter%2C it has almost nothing to do with %5Bi%5Dthe thread%2C%5B%2Fi%5D since what we were talking about was a matter of aesthetic and%2For technical conservatism%2C nothing whatever to do with social or political values. Which I%27d quite like to keep not discussing on these boards.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D 16|5|14|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Gryphon||15:20:08|06/12/2015|%3ESomeone built a safe%2C sturdy building that rises up high into %0D%0A%3Ethe sky scant weeks after breaking ground.%0D%0A%0D%0A%5Bi%5DMaybe%5B%2Fi%5D it%27s safe. The guy %5Bi%5Dsays%5B%2Fi%5D it%27s safe%2C but then he%27s %5Bi%5Dselling%5B%2Fi%5D them%2C and this is a country where they still routinely paint children%27s toys with lead paint and put melamine in pet food.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThis is brilliant for %0D%0A%3Edisaster relief and while we had a failed experiment with brutalist %0D%0A%3Earchitecture in the Sixties%2C I think you can turn this idea into %0D%0A%3Efleets of temporary accommodation as an alternative to places like the %0D%0A%3Ecamps at Sangatte.%0D%0A%0D%0AYeah%2C see%2C my main concern is that %22temporary%22 things that are horrible often have a habit of ceasing to be temporary%2C and while %5Bi%5Done%5B%2Fi%5D Walled City of Kowloon was kind of a nifty world-feature that it%27s too bad it%27s gone%2C I can easily see this thing mushrooming into hideous%2C never-dismantled shantytown arcologies%2C like some kind of Gibsonian vision of a future gone wrong.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EAnd by the way%2C I happen to think that with a more %0D%0A%3Eecologically harmonious approach - climbing plants%2C say%2C or those new %0D%0A%3Evertical garden things - it could be made to look rather pleasant. %0D%0A%3EAlmost like a skyscraper designed by hobbits. %0D%0A%0D%0ALeaving aside for a moment how unspeakably twee a skyscraper designed by hobbits would be%2C when was the last time you saw any evidence at all of anyone in the Pacific Rim economic boom zone indulging in ecologically harmonious anything%3F %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI just don%27t particularly like it when people decide that everything %0D%0A%3Ethat happened in a medium after the year Dot has no value and must be %0D%0A%3Epurged.%0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C I don%27t really cotton to it when I say something about one thing and someone goes running off with the assumption that I was talking about everything%2C either%2C so I guess we%27re even. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0AJust for the record%2C although I am of the old school that thinks government buildings and banks should still look like the Pantheon in Rome%2C Arts-and-Crafts bungalows are nice%2C and red-brick Federal is %5Bi%5Djust fine%5B%2Fi%5D for public schools%2C I do rather like certain so-called-modern architectural styles - 20th Century Modern housing%2C for instance. Also various applications of the now-much-maligned %2760s %22metabolist%22 concept. Habitat %2767 in Montreal%2C for instance%2C and the sadly moribund Nakagin Capsule Tower in Tokyo. No one can ever actually accuse either of those structures of being %5Bi%5Dattractive%5B%2Fi%5D%2C I don%27t think%2C but they%27re interesting%2C and they aren%27t an active affront to their surroundings like the Pompidou or Empire State Plaza. Nakagin%2C in particular%2C wasn%27t actually very well-%5Bi%5Dmade%5B%2Fi%5D%2C which is why most of it no longer works%2C and that%27s a shame%2C but the concept is intriguing and it %5Bi%5Dcould%5B%2Fi%5D have been made to work.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s a big world%2C there%27s room for a lot of screwing around with the way buildings go up and how they look. However%2C what Zhang is doing looks to me basically like encouraging the world to do its future urban construction in the %22enormous heaps of discarded CONEXes%22 idiom%2C and%2C well%2C no%2C I%27m not down with that - and I have %5Bi%5Dextreme%5B%2Fi%5D reservations from an engineering standpoint about his blithe claims of the safety of his product. I genuinely do not believe that a very large building can be put up that quickly without massive fuckaroundery that%27s eventually going to get a lot of people killed. %22Good%2C fast%2C and cheap%2C pick two%22 is a clich%26eacute%3B because it%27s true.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D 23|6|16|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|VoidRandom||18:30:22|06/12/2015|%3EYeah%2C see%2C my main concern is that %22temporary%22 things that are %0D%0A%3Ehorrible often have a habit of ceasing to be temporary%2C and while %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5Done%5B%2Fi%5D Walled City of Kowloon was kind of a nifty world-feature %0D%0A%3Ethat it%27s too bad it%27s gone%2C I can easily see this thing mushrooming %0D%0A%3Einto hideous%2C never-dismantled shantytown arcologies%2C like some kind %0D%0A%3Eof Gibsonian vision of a future gone wrong. %0D%0A%0D%0ASeconded. This happens in all kinds of ways%2C all the time. In a more benign example%2C after WWII%2C the military gave a bunch of huts to the University of British Columbia to help them manage their %22temporary%22 crowding problem. When I went there in the late 80s%2C most of the huts were still there. According to the annotations on %5Blink%3Awww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DttEVS8UIZZw %7Cthis video documenting the hut move-in%5D some of the huts were still there until a few years ago.%0D%0A%0D%0A-VR %0D%0A%5Bfont size%3D%222%22%5DI don%27t want to think about how much they must have spent on fire prevention and asbestos mitigation on those %22free%22 buildings. As well as heating and reworking to remove drafts and leaks.%5B%2Ffont%5D %0D%0A%22They copied all they could follow%2C but they couldn%27t copy my mind%2C %0D%0AAnd I left %27em sweating and stealing a year and a half behind.%22 24|7|23|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Gryphon||18:42:32|06/12/2015|%3ESeconded. This happens in all kinds of ways%2C all the time. In a more %0D%0A%3Ebenign example%2C after WWII%2C the military gave a bunch of huts to the %0D%0A%3EUniversity of British Columbia to help them manage their %22temporary%22 %0D%0A%3Ecrowding problem.%0D%0A%0D%0AYep%2C the University of Maine still has a couple of WWII-era ROTC barracks buildings on campus. Nowadays they have no connection to the ROTC %28they have their own%2C newer facilities elsewhere on campus%29%2C and the old barracks are used as administrative office space%2C not housing. So it isn%27t a particular problem%2C but one imagines they weren%27t originally expected to stand for more than a few years either. They seem to be just wood-frame buildings with single-glazing windows%2C in Maine. Must cost a fortune to heat in the winter.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn a similar vein%2C I was always told that the Ellsworth and Fuller Apartments at WPI were built as temporary housing for the crews who built Morgan and Daniels Halls. They were supposed to be torn down once the dorms opened%2C and then someone at Res Life thought%2C %5Bi%5DWait a minute%2C we could charge upperclassmen to live in those.%5B%2Fi%5D I don%27t know if that%27s actually %5Bi%5Dtrue%5B%2Fi%5D %28although it%27s perfectly in character for WPI%27s administration as I knew it%29%2C but they%27re still there%2C and they are undeniably flimsy-ass dwellings. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D 26|7|23|||||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|BZArcher||12:48:21|06/13/2015|College of Wooster%27s Holden Annex was built as temporary housing for the Army WASP pilots training there in 1943. %0D%0A%0D%0AStill there%2C still occupied. 28|8|26|||||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|SneakyPete||16:46:02|06/19/2015|I thought on first reading that was %22Hidden Annex%22%2C and wondered if that was where they were keeping Bertie Wooster and Jeeves. %28%2AThere%2A is an obscure reference.%29 25|6|16|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|SpottedKitty||23:46:36|06/12/2015|%3EYeah%2C see%2C my main concern is that %22temporary%22 things that are %0D%0A%3Ehorrible often have a habit of ceasing to be temporary%2C%0D%0A%0D%0AWe%27ve got a good example here%2C not actually %22horrible%22%2C but awfully dull and boring-looking%3B after WW2 a lot of prefab houses were put up %22on a temporary basis%22 all over the UK... there are still hundreds left%2C and one small row %28the last in town%2C I think%29 is just ten minutes%27 walk away. They%27ve been totally refurbished at least twice that I know of%2C and I sometimes wonder if the only thing holding them up is the decorative brick lining that was put on last time.%0D%0A%0D%0A-- %0D%0AUnable to save the day%3A File is read-only. 10|1|0|||||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Proginoskes||04:06:16|06/12/2015|Yeah%2C Vincent van Duysen%27s text does not%2C to me%2C describe the Centre Pompidou. It is very ostentatiously %5Bem%5Dnot%5B%2Fem%5D woven into its place%2C and in fact goes to extra effort to distance itself %E2%80%93 one could even say %5Bem%5Dalienate%5B%2Fem%5D itself %E2%80%93 from its neighbours. It also fails to be engaging or inviting. It%27s very obviously a ham-handed attempt to Make A Statement. Quite unlike all the other structures in that article%2C which are straightforwardly form-following-function %28Tour Montparnasse%2C BT Tower%29%2C dogged by circumstance %28Vele di Scampia%2C Tempelhof Airport%29%2C or keeping to a particular style in an unapologetic but non-aggressive manner %28Orange County Government Center%2C Empire State Plaza%2C and again Tour Montparnasse%29. The Orange County Government Center and Empire State Plaza both pleasantly remind me of the main campus of Simon Fraser University%2C all concrete and right angles.%0D%0A%28Most of the SFU buildings were intended by the architect to have large quantities of trailing plants overflowing the planters built into the various step-like roof-lines%2C which would%27ve lent an interesting %22lost jungle temple%22 vibe to the campus%2C but it%27s a good thing he designed them to look alright before they grew%2C because they never got planted. There are a few trees growing in unlikely places%2C including through the middle of the Student Union building%2C but nowhere near the originally-intended level of greenery.%29 12|2|10|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|SpottedKitty||10:12:12|06/12/2015|%3EIt%27s very obviously a ham-handed attempt to Make A Statement.%0D%0A%0D%0AIf that%27s a statement%2C then it%27s speaking in tongues. %3B%29%0D%0A%0D%0A-- %0D%0AUnable to save the day%3A File is read-only. 19|3|12|||1||RE%3A a helpful visual reference%21|Verbena||17:34:03|06/12/2015|%3E%3EIt%27s very obviously a ham-handed attempt to Make A Statement.%0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%3EIf that%27s a statement%2C then it%27s speaking in tongues. %3B%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AHey%2C let%27s be charitable. Maybe it%27s a cry for help. %3D%29%0D%0A%0D%0A------%0D%0A Fearless creatures%2C we all learn to fight the Reaper%0D%0A Can%27t defeat Her%2C so instead I%27ll have to be Her