20||0|2390|0| 0|0|0|||||Knights of the Tenth World|goldenfire||21:31:19|03/07/2021|So I just went back to re-read it%2C because I was in the mood. It%27s...I dunno%2C the 5th time%3F 6th time I have%2C but it%27s been a while...%0D%0A%0D%0Agods%2C Gryph...godsdamn. I just... I don%27t have the _words_. Better Epic Fantasy than most %2Aprinted books%2A I%27ve read.%0D%0A%0D%0Aand I am %5Bb%5Dnot at all ashamed%5B%2Fb%5D to admit to %5Bi%5Dbursting into tears%5B%2Fi%5D at %22For Love%27s sake...TAKE HER%22%0D%0A%0D%0AThe...the FEELS there%2C just...Corwin %2Aknows%2A what he%27s doing%2C what he%27s giving up...what he%2C personally is sacrificing... and he doesn%27t even %2Athink twice%2A about it%2C he just DOES IT%2C because he just witnessed something perfect and %5Bb%5Dnothing is more important than protecting it%5B%2Fb%5D.%0D%0A%0D%0AI realize this is rambling%2C I blame still-misty eyes%2C just...thank you%2C Gryph...just%2C thank you. That is all. 1|1|0|||||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|Zemyla||10:15:01|03/08/2021|The part that makes me laugh is always Corwin%27s frost-drunk rant at the heavens at the end of Knights 1. %22%5Bi%5DI%5B%2Fi%5D have to go play %5Bi%5Dimpartial observer%5B%2Fi%5D on the most fucked-up plane in the %5Bi%5Dwhole of Creation%5B%2Fi%5D while it%27s in the middle of a %5Bi%5Dtotal cataclysm cycle%5B%2Fi%5D%21%22%0D%0A%0D%0AThe part that gives me the good shivers%2C on the other hand%2C is his investiture as the Rune Knight of Iron. I feel that poem does the whole parallelism thing the best out of all of them. And then that%27s followed up by the embodiment of Orihalcon%2C for a nice one-two punch. Another thing that was good was the Beowulf poem%2C illustrating how frightened Akio was. 2|2|1|||||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|goldenfire||14:38:44|03/08/2021|%3EThe part that makes me laugh is always Corwin%27s frost-drunk rant at %0D%0A%3Ethe heavens at the end of Knights 1. %22%5Bi%5DI%5B%2Fi%5D have to go play %0D%0A%3E%5Bi%5Dimpartial observer%5B%2Fi%5D on the most fucked-up plane in the %5Bi%5Dwhole %0D%0A%3Eof Creation%5B%2Fi%5D while it%27s in the middle of a %5Bi%5Dtotal cataclysm %0D%0A%3Ecycle%5B%2Fi%5D%21%22 %0D%0A%0D%0Ayeah%2C that always makes me chuckle. Like%2C most of us have bad days at work where a bunch of factors come together ot make some task utter crap... but this just turns it up to 11.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EThe part that gives me the good shivers%2C on the other hand%2C is his %0D%0A%3Einvestiture as the Rune Knight of Iron. I feel that poem does the %0D%0A%3Ewhole parallelism thing the best out of all of them. And then that%27s %0D%0A%3Efollowed up by the embodiment of Orihalcon%2C for a nice one-two punch. %0D%0A%3EAnother thing that was good was the Beowulf poem%2C illustrating how %0D%0A%3Efrightened Akio was. %0D%0A%0D%0Ammm...not as emotional as the pillar investiture scene%2C but definitely a powerful scene%2C yes.%0D%0A%0D%0AHonestly%2C I like the whole thing start to tend%2C I really do...it%27s just that the line I quoted always just %2Aflattens%2A me %28in the best way possible%29 every time I read through it. 3|1|0|||1||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|Sofaspud||15:15:10|03/12/2021|True story%3A _Knights_ was my introduction to Rayearth%2C just as the Symphony was my introduction to Utena.%0D%0A%0D%0ASome time after the Symphony slowed down and after Knights concluded%2C I finally got around to watching both shows. Or... starting to.%0D%0A%0D%0AThey%27re just %2Anot as good%2A as the stories here%2C and turned out to not be my cup of tea in general%2C even though in UF they are my %2Afavorite%2A stories of all.%0D%0A%0D%0A--sofaspud%0D%0A--thanks Gryph%2C you%27ve ruined me for other writers %3AP 5|2|3|||||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|NHO||13:54:29|03/13/2021|Well%2C Rayearth was ok to the fresh young me%2C but on rewatch I can see that it needs to shred about third of runtime - it%27s a bit dry and padded. Great story. 4|1|0|||1||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|Gryphon||11:20:36|03/13/2021|This is to note that I haven%27t ignored this thread%2C I just don%27t really know what to say. I have... very mixed feelings about this story arc nowadays%2C but I appreciate all your kind remarks.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D 6|2|4|||||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|NHO||13:55:52|03/13/2021|Can you tell us what you would have wrote differently now%3F%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd to be honest%2C on my recent reread of SoTS I skipped whole Knights of the Tenth World. 7|3|6|||1||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|Gryphon||00:35:36|03/14/2021|%3ECan you tell us what you would have wrote differently now%3F %0D%0A%0D%0ATo be honest%2C I%27m not sure I would have%2C bar certain stylistic evolutions that have happened in the last 20 years%28%21%21%21%29. It%27s what it %5Bi%5Dsets up%5B%2Fi%5D that%27s the problem. I got a pretty substantial raking over the coals in the %5Bi%5DKnights 3%5B%2Fi%5D discussion thread%2C but it was retroactive%2C taking place after %5Bi%5DSymphony No. 4%5B%2Fi%5D. The burns still sting a bit.%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D 8|4|7|||1||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|ImpulsiveAlexia||00:14:29|03/15/2021|I know as someone who never thought the Corwin%2FUtena arc was over any of the other times it was over%2C I%27m not really sure what could have happened differently here. %28I was a bit iffier on some of the later events%2C but it was a %22What the %5Bi%5Dhell%5B%2Fi%5D%2C Anthy%22 iffy rather than a %22What the %5Bi%5Dhell%5B%2Fi%5D%2C Gryphon%22 sort of iffy%2C if you follow the distinction.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A-IA.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28No one ever mentions %2Amy%2A favorite parts of %5Bi%5DKnights%5B%2Fi%5D in threads like these...%29 9|5|8|||1||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|Gryphon||00:15:21|03/15/2021|%3E%28No one ever mentions %2Amy%2A favorite parts of %5Bi%5DKnights%5B%2Fi%5D in threads %0D%0A%3Elike these...%29 %0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C I mean%2C feel free. Posts don%27t cost anything...%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D 10|6|9|||1||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|ImpulsiveAlexia||01:14:03|03/17/2021|Sure%2C why not%3F%0D%0A%0D%0A-Corwin%27s conversation with Hikaru after she realizes he killed Alcyone. %28Which has resulted in various mutations of %22That%27s what these things do%22 being added to my personal Stock Phrases List.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A-Saionji%27s spar with Touga. %28Touga getting played is always fun%2C but it%27s also a moment that stands out for me in his development as a character... and like Utena%2C I had to get used to actually liking him.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A-The conversation with Emeraude at the beginning of 3. %28%22But - you have not yet saved Cephiro.%22 is one of those lines that just... I don%27t even know how to describe it.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A-IA.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28received information not interpretable%29 11|6|9|||||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|Vorticity||04:14:55|05/29/2021|- I just kind of liked how Corwin uses Ragna Blade as a can opener. I read this before watching Slayers the first time%2C and it still gave the impression of how overpowered it was.%0D%0A- Umi%27s curse words are so j%27tatten cute.%0D%0A- Corwin%27s attempt to just fucking shoot Akio was great%2C but he should have known that wouldn%27t work in dueling arena.%0D%0A- There%27s a great sense throughout that the danger is building higher and higher%2C as is Corwin%27s palpable frustration that no one will tell them what the hell is going on.%0D%0A- Hikaru being protrayed as Salusian was a nice use of her canon chibi form%27s ears%0D%0A- Juniper%27s descriptive writing is great%2C as always%0D%0A- The banter between Frey and Balder was fun. %22omg you almost got killed%211%22 %22meh. nbd%2C Frey%22%0D%0A%0D%0AI think there%27s a legitimate feminist criticism to be made here about combining two stories with female protagonists%2C and making the endings come out happy because you added a strong man to come save them. That said%2C Corwin can%27t succeed without the women either%2C so it%27s not like you%27re marginalizing them. It%27s just odd how Utena doesn%27t get to be the primary protagonist in the story of Anthy%27s return. But in your defense%2C life kind of works this way sometimes. And having all outsiders be protagonists really helps the sense of revelation build. %0D%0A%0D%0ANone of that spoils the good time%2C anyway. And Symphony 4 effectively solves this critique by showing Utena at the peak of her power%2C but that%27s all later.%0D%0A 12|7|11|||1||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|Peter Eng||16:51:23|05/29/2021|%3EAnd having all outsiders be protagonists really helps the sense of revelation build. %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s very in keeping with the isekai trope that drives Rayearth - not that I would have recognized that at the time%2C since I didn%27t even know that isekai was a concept until about six months ago.%0D%0A%0D%0APeter Eng%0D%0A--%0D%0AInsert humorous comment here. 13|7|11|||1||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|Gryphon||18:28:24|05/29/2021|%3E- I just kind of liked how Corwin uses Ragna Blade as a can opener. I %0D%0A%3Eread this before watching Slayers the first time%2C and it still gave %0D%0A%3Ethe impression of how overpowered it was. %0D%0A%0D%0ATrue fact%3A I really enjoy the incantation for that spell%2C and that%27s really the main reason I used it there. %28I also enjoy the translations that insist on rendering it %22Laguna Blade%22%2C as if it somehow makes more sense for the spell to be named after a beach in California%2C and the spell itself didn%27t have obvious connotations of Ragnar%26ouml%3Bk about it. These are probably the same translators who insist that the deuteragonist of %5Bi%5DRevolutionary Girl Utena%5B%2Fi%5D is named %22Anshii%22%2C because That%27s How It%27s Spelled In Kana%2C in spite of the fact that %22Anthy%22 %5Bi%5Dis an actual Greek name%5B%2Fi%5D and her whole plot is taken straight out of Greek tragedy. Some people%2C I tell ya.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E- Umi%27s curse words are so j%27tatten cute.%0D%0A%0D%0AMarty Rose did all the Hyelian dialogue%2C and I seem to recall him being somewhat bemused when asked to render %22What the hell do you think you%27re doing%3F%21 Get off me%2C you pervy asshole.%22 %3A%29%0D%0A %0D%0A%3E- Corwin%27s attempt to just fucking shoot Akio was great%2C but he should %0D%0A%3Ehave known that wouldn%27t work in dueling arena. %0D%0A%0D%0AHey%2C you never know until you try.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI think there%27s a legitimate feminist criticism to be made here about %0D%0A%3Ecombining two stories with female protagonists%2C and making the endings %0D%0A%3Ecome out happy because you added a strong man to come save them.%0D%0A%0D%0ASure there is%2C and it%27s been made. Forcefully. At some length. I%27m not sure if it%27s a defense or a self-indictment%2C at this point%2C to note that I wasn%27t thinking in anything like those terms 20%28%21%21%21%29 years ago%2C nor attempting to construct or further any sort of meta-narrative or agenda in writing it the way I did%2C but that%27s how it was.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28Anyway%2C it seems to me his presence didn%27t make much difference to the outcome of the %5Bi%5DRayearth%5B%2Fi%5D part of the equation. Emeraude still ended up dead at the unwitting hands of the Rune Knights. Even on the RGU side he%27s more of a facilitator or catalyst. He comes right out and acknowledges that he had no chance of defeating Akio himself%2C which is surely how it would%27ve come out if I %5Bi%5Dhad%5B%2Fi%5D been out to grind that axe.%29%0D%0A%0D%0ARegardless%2C thinking about this just now did make me stop to consider%3A if I were writing the early Symphonies today%2C would Corwin be a girl%3F I think he might be%2C and the really entertaining thing to me is that if I follow that line of reasoning for a while and envision what S1 and S2 would have been like in that instance... they%27re still pretty much the same. Except Gudrun wouldn%27t have been as much of a disinterested party in the Corwyn Bowl. %3A%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D 14|8|13|||||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|Vorticity||05:06:48|05/30/2021|[updated:LAST EDITED ON May-30-21 AT 05:07 AM (EDT)]Hey%2C it%27s not too late to have Corwyn discover that she was a girl all along and go trans. Everyone%27s doing it these days.%0D%0A%0D%0ANot that I think a female Corwin would have actually improved the plot. There needed to be some yang in there to improve the fung shui of the story. Literary criticism doesn%27t mean I%27m criticizing the author%2C unless they keep making the same mistake over and over.%0D%0A%0D%0AYou really did get there in %5Bi%5DThe Revolution Will Be Televised%5B%2Fi%5D%2C where Utena is the natural temporary military leader of the Klingon Empire. She beats the Covenant Elite in combat not by being tough and masculine%2C but through her bond with Anthy. And then she sees another girl pierced by the thousand swords of sentients%27 hatred%2C decides she%27s going to save her%2C and undoes thousands of years of tradition with but a word. That%27s the character development%2C where only ten years prior she was a girl in a coffin.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3E True fact%3A I really enjoy the incantation for that spell%2C and that%27s really%0D%0A%3E the main reason I used it there. %28I also enjoy the translations that insist%0D%0A%3E on rendering it %22Laguna Blade%22%2C as if it somehow makes more sense for the%0D%0A%3E spell to be named after a beach in California%0D%0A%0D%0AI know you%27re thinking of Laguna Beach%2C but it%27s actually a Venetian word for the lagoon around Venice. Which gave me the wonderful image of Akari Mizunashi atop her gondola chanting %22... and let us walk the path of destruction together%21 Laguna Blade%21%22 I should probably definitely not do this in my own fic. Maybe in an omake.%0D%0A%0D%0AAnd yeah%2C I actually like the dub of Slayers%2C but when Megumi Hayashibara chants the ragna blade%2C it sends shivers down my spine. 15|9|14|||1||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|Gryphon||15:55:05|05/30/2021|%3EHey%2C it%27s not too late to have Corwyn discover that she was a girl all %0D%0A%3Ealong and go trans. Everyone%27s doing it these days. %0D%0A%0D%0ANot so much. Besides%2C I don%27t think that%27s a voyage I%27m qualified to take any character on.%0D%0A%0D%0A%28That said%2C it is at least %5Bi%5Dmechanically%5B%2Fi%5D a much %5Bi%5Dsimpler%5B%2Fi%5D journey to go on in the 25th century%3B even if you%27re not someone who knows high-level alchemists%2C the physical part is an overnight stay at any reasonably-well-equipped biosculpt clinic. The neuro-kinesthetic retraining takes longer than the actual procedure. It%27s not even that expensive%2C relatively speaking.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A%3ENot that I think a female Corwin would have actually improved the %0D%0A%3Eplot.%0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C no%2C that%27s the punch line--that the plot would end up being pretty much the same.%0D%0A%0D%0A%3EI know you%27re thinking of Laguna Beach%2C but it%27s actually a Venetian %0D%0A%3Eword for the lagoon around Venice.%0D%0A%0D%0AIt%27s just the Spanish and Italian word for %22lagoon%22 or %22lake%22 generally%2C is it not%3F %28See also Laguna Seca Raceway%2C which is so called because it was built in the basin of a dry lake bed.%29%0D%0A%0D%0A--G.%0D%0A-%3E%3C-%0D%0ABenjamin D. Hutchins%2C Co-Founder%2C Editor-in-Chief%2C %26 Forum Mod%0D%0AEyrie Productions%2C Unlimited http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eyrie-productions.com%2F%0D%0Azgryphon at that email service Google has%0D%0A%5Bi%5DCeterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.%5B%2Fi%5D 17|10|15|||||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|Zemyla||11:43:21|05/31/2021|%3EBesides%2C I don%27t think that%27s a voyage I%27m qualified to %0D%0A%3Etake any character on. %0D%0A%0D%0AWell%2C you%27re not a lesbian%2C but you write lesbians really well in my opinion. So you may be more qualified than you think. 16|9|14|||||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|StClair||02:30:05|05/31/2021|%3EYou really did get there in %5Bi%5DThe Revolution Will Be Televised%5B%2Fi%5D%2C %0D%0A%3Ewhere Utena is the natural temporary military leader of the Klingon %0D%0A%3EEmpire. She beats the Covenant Elite in combat not by being tough and %0D%0A%3Emasculine%2C but through her bond with Anthy. And then she sees another %0D%0A%3Egirl pierced by the thousand swords of sentients%27 hatred%2C decides %0D%0A%3Eshe%27s going to save her%2C and undoes thousands of years of tradition %0D%0A%3Ewith but a word. That%27s the character development%2C where only ten %0D%0A%3Eyears prior she was a girl in a coffin. %0D%0A%0D%0AI was re-reading that story a couple of weeks back%2C and I%27m still quite proud of one of my small contributions to it%3A%0D%0A%0D%0A%22All I did was tell %27em what I thought.%22%0D%0A%22%27All I did was stand up for this one girl...%27%22%0D%0A%0D%0A%28as Kate puts it later%2C %22Just say %27then I did that thing I do%2C%27 Dad%27ll know exactly what you mean.%22%29 18|8|13|||||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|Senji||18:35:41|02/18/2022|%3ERegardless%2C thinking about this just now did make me stop to consider%3A %0D%0A%3Eif I were writing the early Symphonies today%2C would Corwin be a girl%3F %0D%0A%3EI think he might be%2C and the really entertaining thing to me is that %0D%0A%3Eif I follow that line of reasoning for a while and envision what S1 %0D%0A%3Eand S2 would have been like in that instance... they%27re still pretty %0D%0A%3Emuch the same. Except Gudrun wouldn%27t have been as much of a %0D%0A%3Edisinterested party in the Corwyn Bowl. %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%0D%0A I think Corwin%27s struggles with the dichotomy between the societal expectations of masculinity and his own%2C mostly ungendered%2C knowledge of what makes a person %5Bi%5Dgood%5B%2Fi%5D are an important counterpoint to Utena%27s gender-nonconformity.%0D%0A%0D%0AL.%0D%0A 19|9|18|||1||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|Verbena||20:47:12|02/18/2022|%3E%3ERegardless%2C thinking about this just now did make me stop to consider%3A %0D%0A%3E%3Eif I were writing the early Symphonies today%2C would Corwin be a girl%3F %0D%0A%3E%3EI think he might be%2C and the really entertaining thing to me is that %0D%0A%3E%3Eif I follow that line of reasoning for a while and envision what S1 %0D%0A%3E%3Eand S2 would have been like in that instance... they%27re still pretty %0D%0A%3E%3Emuch the same. Except Gudrun wouldn%27t have been as much of a %0D%0A%3E%3Edisinterested party in the Corwyn Bowl. %3A%29 %0D%0A%3E%3E%0D%0A%3E I think Corwin%27s struggles with the dichotomy between the societal %0D%0A%3Eexpectations of masculinity and his own%2C mostly ungendered%2C knowledge %0D%0A%3Eof what makes a person %5Bi%5Dgood%5B%2Fi%5D are an important counterpoint to %0D%0A%3EUtena%27s gender-nonconformity. %0D%0A%0D%0AI think the critical part here%2C and why the story works well regardless of the modern hypersensitivity to such matters%2C is the fact that very little happens because of%2C or in spite of%2C anyone%27s sexuality or identity. In other words%2C Utena is a hero%2C a prince%2C an amazing soul%2C and a great character. And with a single exception that I can think of%2C the fact that she%27s normally straight%2C but going to be married to a girl%2C %5Bi%5Ddoesn%27t matter one bit%5B%2Fi%5D. And it shouldn%27t. Writing any character as a sexual or gender identity first%2C and a well-written character second%2C is a good way to lose sight of the real goal. %28Obviously%2C that changes if the subject of the piece -is- the sexuality%2Fidentity. Of course that%27s not the case here.%29%0D%0A%0D%0AThe one scene I%27m thinking of is the proposal scene%2C where Utena has to address her sexuality. The beauty of the scene is it precisely reflects the source material. Utena was struggling between her feelings for Anthy and her usual preference for almost the entire series%2C and clearly that part had been imported to UF verbatim. Tackling it head on and -resolving- it in such a simple yet heartwarming manner was a thousand times more satisfying to read than if her character had been changed on the way in.%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0A------%0D%0A Authors of our fates%0D%0A Orchestrate our fall from grace%0D%0A Poorest players on the stage%0D%0A Our defiance drives us straight to the edge 20|10|19|||||RE%3A Knights of the Tenth World|drakensis||02:42:05|02/20/2022|%22It confused the hell out of me for the better part of a year. But what I finally realized was that when you%E2%80%99re involved%2C Anthy Himemiya%2C%E2%80%9D she added with a stronger%2C more characteristic grin%2C %E2%80%9Call things aren%E2%80%99t equal.%22%0D%0A%0D%0A%0D%0AWhich is a fairly profound statement about love%2C IMHO.