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Verbena
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950 posts
Jun-11-21, 09:54 PM (EDT)
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"Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
 
   So. ME1...yeah. I hate to be a spoilsport, but I'm starting to think I'm going to have to skip it and play ME2 again for the bazillionth time. Sadly, even with improved graphics it did not age well for me.

Has anyone else picked up the ME collection? Was it as good as you remember?


------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition Gryphonadmin Jun-12-21 1
     RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition Verbena Jun-12-21 2
         RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition Nathan Jun-13-21 3
             RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition Verbena Jun-13-21 4
                 RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition Nathan Jun-13-21 5
                     RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition CdrMike Jun-15-21 6
                         RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition Gryphonadmin Jun-15-21 7
                             RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition CdrMike Jun-15-21 8
                                 RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition Verbena Jun-15-21 9
                                     RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition CdrMike Jun-16-21 10
                         RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition Matrix Dragon Jun-16-21 11
                             RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition Sofaspud Jun-16-21 12
                                 RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition Verbena Jun-16-21 13
                                 RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition Matrix Dragon Jun-17-21 14

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Gryphonadmin
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21212 posts
Jun-12-21, 00:11 AM (EDT)
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1. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #0
 
   >Has anyone else picked up the ME collection?

I haven't. Heck, I still vaguely regret paying money for ME3 the first time.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Verbena
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950 posts
Jun-12-21, 10:28 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #1
 
   Eh, I liked ME3 fine. Just so long as I stop playing before the last 10 minutes of the game. =)


------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


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Nathan
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1367 posts
Jun-13-21, 01:31 AM (EDT)
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3. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #2
 
   The Leviathan DLC makes the endings merely ordinary-level meh, by providing the basic background of where-the-heck-that-came-from. ME3's real sin is being depressing as fuck.

-----
Iä! Iä! Moe fthagn!


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Verbena
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950 posts
Jun-13-21, 02:50 AM (EDT)
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4. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #3
 
   >The Leviathan DLC makes the endings merely ordinary-level meh, by
>providing the basic background of where-the-heck-that-came-from. ME3's
>real sin is being depressing as fuck.

I have to admit, my problem with it was not so much that the ending is sad (I kind of expected that going in) but that Shepard loses all agency and the choice she makes doesn't matter. That choice doesn't mean anything because there's no way to learn what each option actually does until you take it and see the ending, so from Shepard's perspective it's literally a wild-assed guess. Even after making the choice you're not really fighting or winning anything; you're having a heart to heart with Anderson while the Catalyst does it all.


------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


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Nathan
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1367 posts
Jun-13-21, 11:20 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #4
 
   >I have to admit, my problem with it was not so much that the ending is
>sad (I kind of expected that going in) but that Shepard loses all
>agency and the choice she makes doesn't matter. That choice doesn't
>mean anything because there's no way to learn what each option
>actually does until you take it and see the ending, so from Shepard's
>perspective it's literally a wild-assed guess. Even after making the
>choice you're not really fighting or winning anything; you're having a
>heart to heart with Anderson while the Catalyst does it all.

And more to the point for me, you've spent the entire game getting hammered with loss and desperation and things falling apart on all fronts, trying to get a handful of refugees free and give the traumatized survivors a place to come apart in relative peace.

The ending is immaterial in the face of the fact that the game itself was emotionally shattering.

-----
Iä! Iä! Moe fthagn!


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CdrMike
Member since Feb-20-05
753 posts
Jun-15-21, 04:00 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #5
 
   >And more to the point for me, you've spent the entire game getting
>hammered with loss and desperation and things falling apart on all
>fronts, trying to get a handful of refugees free and give the
>traumatized survivors a place to come apart in relative peace.
>
>The ending is immaterial in the face of the fact that the game itself
>was emotionally shattering.

The Extended Cut does sort of help take some of the sting out of the endings by giving hope spots (ex: Samara w/ her remaining daughter, Krogans rebuilding, etc), while the Citadel DLC gives those who played it a bit of a breather before the final plunge into the endgame. So at least the developers realized that fans needed something to lighten the mood a bit.

In retrospect, I think a lot of fans hated the ending because there's really no "good" ending to the whole trilogy. Only one ending ("Destroy") holds even a slim hope of Shepard surviving, but the trade-off is that you condemn a major character and a major race to oblivion with the unspoken guarantee that you've just delayed the eventual "machines wipe out organics" future. Two others guarantee Shepard dies while also feeling like the Reapers "won" to one degree or another. And the Extended Cut adds a fourth ending that seems less like a choice and more like the developers saying "You want to act like children? Fine! Rocks fall, everybody dies!"

And really, that's what makes the ending ME3's biggest crime, that all of the emotional weight and turmoil of the game ends with an info dump and a Sophie's choice: Save Shepard at the cost of billions of lives or kill Shepard for a hollow victory. And now they want to write a fourth game, which means choosing at least one of those endings as "canon." Zod help us all.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

"You know, the world could always use more heroes." - Tracer, Overwatch


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Gryphonadmin
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Jun-15-21, 04:23 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #6
 
   >And the Extended Cut adds a fourth ending that
>seems less like a choice and more like the developers saying "You want
>to act like children? Fine! Rocks fall, everybody dies!"

That's almost literally the way Neverwinter Nights 2 ends as well, although in that case it was Obsidian's trademark "oops, we have to release the game, don't we?" maneuver at work as opposed to BioWare's Annovian "you do not appreciate our art" response.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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CdrMike
Member since Feb-20-05
753 posts
Jun-15-21, 06:05 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #7
 
   >That's almost literally the way Neverwinter Nights 2 ends as
>well, although in that case it was Obsidian's trademark "oops, we have
>to release the game, don't we?" maneuver at work as opposed to
>BioWare's Annovian "you do not appreciate our art"
>response.

That's another big part of why the ending was so poorly received, that the response from Bioware to the outpouring of criticism was not an even-handed "We understand you don't like the ending, but we think it works better this way" but instead "YOU UNSOPHISTICATED PHILISTINES DON'T APPRECIATE OUR ARTISTIC VISION!" And yeah, every franchise is going to have fans that can't be pleased, but you really bring it on yourself when you spend years insisting "Choices matter!" and then come back at the end to declare "Truth is...the game was rigged from the start."

--------------------------
CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

"You know, the world could always use more heroes." - Tracer, Overwatch


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Verbena
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950 posts
Jun-15-21, 11:05 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #8
 
   >That's another big part of why the ending was so poorly received, that
>the response from Bioware to the outpouring of criticism was not an
>even-handed "We understand you don't like the ending, but we think it
>works better this way" but instead "YOU UNSOPHISTICATED PHILISTINES
>DON'T APPRECIATE OUR ARTISTIC VISION!"

This exactly. The nose-in-the-air reaction, when they changed the ending on the fly right before release, without any of the peer review the rest of the story got, was moronic.


And yeah, every franchise is
>going to have fans that can't be pleased, but you really bring it on
>yourself when you spend years insisting "Choices matter!" and then
>come back at the end to declare "Truth is...the game was rigged from
>the start."

Remember when the devs said the endings couldn't be boiled down to one color or another, juxtaposed with the photo of the game files showing the red, green, and blue ending movies?

The Mass Effect fanbase remembers.


------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


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CdrMike
Member since Feb-20-05
753 posts
Jun-16-21, 01:26 AM (EDT)
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10. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #9
 
   >This exactly. The nose-in-the-air reaction, when they changed the
>ending on the fly right before release, without any of the peer review
>the rest of the story got, was moronic.

When discussing the ending of ME3, I often contrast it with the ending of FNV. Apparently one of the biggest obstacle that Bioware and Obsidian experienced was making a big deal out of "choice matters" right up until the ending, and then realizing there was no way to really account for all the possible endings.

For Obsidian, the decision made was to go with the franchise tradition: Final ending that fades to black before giving you a slideshow detailing every major decision you made and what it led to. And instead of defending their choice as "artistic," they responded to fan disapproval that you couldn't play past the ending by admitting that there was just no way to create satisfying worlds for every possible combination of decision.

By contrast, Bioware (originally) gave fans a cookie-cutter ending which did not give fans any closure whatsoever, was totally reliant on the info dump you made before your final choice to give you an idea of what your choice would lead to, and then declared that if you didn't like the ending then there was something wrong with you. They then went back and used the DLCs to try and smooth over the transition and give more explanation, but they've never really admitted that their "artistic vision" was a mistake.

>Remember when the devs said the endings couldn't be boiled down to one
>color or another, juxtaposed with the photo of the game files showing
>the red, green, and blue ending movies?
>
>The Mass Effect fanbase remembers.

This fan in particular also remembers all the assurances that ME3 was the end of "Shepard's story" and that any future installments would have different protagonists. That was even the supposed reason for MEA being set in the Andromeda galaxy, so that they could have a clean slate to work with without worrying about what ending people chose.

But I guess when you release two massive clunkers back-to-back, you either start learning from your mistakes or you go back to your comfort zone.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

"You know, the world could always use more heroes." - Tracer, Overwatch


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Matrix Dragon
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1816 posts
Jun-16-21, 03:14 AM (EDT)
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11. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #6
 
   > And the Extended Cut adds a fourth ending that
>seems less like a choice and more like the developers saying "You want
>to act like children? Fine! Rocks fall, everybody dies!"

I will always appreciate that ending, just for the comedy of Sofaspud clicking one too many times, shooting the Bullshit Kid, and triggering the choice. "What? WHAT?!"

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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Sofaspud
Member since Apr-7-06
354 posts
Jun-16-21, 12:49 PM (EDT)
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12. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #11
 
   I instantly regretted my decision!

--sofaspud
--it was funny, tho


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Verbena
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950 posts
Jun-16-21, 05:12 PM (EDT)
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13. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #12
 
   >I instantly regretted my decision!
>
>--sofaspud
>--it was funny, tho

What I regret is remembering that in the original ME3, before the ending fix, you could shoot the kid all day long and it did nothing. And it was cathartic. And I remember seeing YouTubers shooting that kid over and over again because catharsis.

And then the ending was updated and suddenly shooting the kid gets you the worst ending. And I remember thinking that, of all the problems the ending had, THAT was what stuck in the devs' heads?

What a bunch of butthurt children.

------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


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Matrix Dragon
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Jun-17-21, 02:32 AM (EDT)
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14. "RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition"
In response to message #12
 
   >I instantly regretted my decision!

The rest of us on voice chat did not. :)

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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