Wait, wait, wait, so... while I haven't been paying attention, David Tennant has become the Grover Cleveland of Doctors? Wha?

I mean, DGMW, that's brilliant, but... wha?

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
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>Wait, wait, wait, so... while I haven't been paying attention, David
>Tennant has become the Grover Cleveland of Doctors? Wha?

His first ep as 14 was very much a saving throw for certain writing decisions from the end of his tenure as 10.

And it ended with maybe, just maybe, letting the Doctor rest and recover from everything thrown at them.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

>>Wait, wait, wait, so... while I haven't been paying attention, David
>>Tennant has become the Grover Cleveland of Doctors? Wha?
>
>His first ep as 14 was very much a saving throw for certain writing
>decisions from the end of his tenure as 10.

I noticed that. I think our version was a little cooler, but I admit I'm biased, and a lot more flexible vis-à-vis casting. :)

--G.
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Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>I noticed that. I think our version was a little cooler, but I admit
>I'm biased, and a lot more flexible vis-à-vis casting. :)

True, but this version has a Donna rant about giving up her money :P

"Yes, but Donna, destruction of London?"
"Ohhh, I'll show you destruction mate!"

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

>>I noticed that. I think our version was a little cooler, but I admit
>>I'm biased, and a lot more flexible vis-à-vis casting. :)
>
>True, but this version has a Donna rant about giving up her money :P
>
>"Yes, but Donna, destruction of London?"
>"Ohhh, I'll show you destruction mate!"

"Best 55 seconds of my life!"

--G.
That's what she said. ... I mean, that is literally what she said.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Those two slip back into their dynamic so perfectly. It helps they're like that in real life, but ohhh, was it good to see.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

>Those two slip back into their dynamic so perfectly. It helps they're
>like that in real life, but ohhh, was it good to see.

Remember back in the day when people were like, "Oh, come on, Catherine Tate? Seriously?"

--G.
How in the actual fvck was that 18 years ago?
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>Remember back in the day when people were like, "Oh, come on,
>Catherine Tate? Seriously?"

That lasted until she gave ten shit. Then everyone understood
>How in the actual fvck was that 18 years ago?

Time is being mean to us again

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

LAST EDITED ON May-18-24 AT 06:44 PM (EDT)
 
>
>>Remember back in the day when people were like, "Oh, come on,
>>Catherine Tate? Seriously?"
>
>That lasted until she gave ten shit. Then everyone understood

"I just want a mate."

"Well, you're not mating with me, sunshine."

--G.
Also, in the interest of full disclosure, I should admit that I was one of those people, and that I was wrong.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

I think a lot of the people who weren't big on Catherine Tate are the ones who knew know her from SOME things, but not the bulk of it - which was the vast majority of the American audience.

I didn't know her from anything, so I had no basis of comparison at all, but as soon as she opened her mouth I was smitten. It was SUCH a different dynamic from everyone else, this woman who was just Absolutely Done with the Doctor's usual bullshit, and not at all afraid to take him to task about whatever the hell is going on. We got a little bit of it back with Teagan, I believe, and with Rose's mom, but Rose's mom was...much less personable.

>I didn't know her from anything, so I had no basis of comparison at
>all, but as soon as she opened her mouth I was smitten. It was SUCH a
>different dynamic from everyone else, this woman who was just
>Absolutely Done with the Doctor's usual bullshit, and not at all
>afraid to take him to task about whatever the hell is going on. We got
>a little bit of it back with Teagan, I believe, and with Rose's mom,
>but Rose's mom was...much less personable.

Rose was the friend that wanted to be "more than friends" no matter how much that couldn't happen. Martha was the friend that holds your hair up while you're puking your guts out and asks you why you do these things to yourself. Donna was the friend who slaps you across the face, then grabs you by the shoulders and shakes you while screaming at you to get your shit together.

>I noticed that. I think our version was a little cooler, but I admit
>I'm biased, and a lot more flexible vis-à-vis casting. :)

The UF solution would have worked in 2010 if Davies had decided to reverse the events of the '08-'10 specials. But now, the timeline of the franchise for the last 14 years is such a mess that you'd spend the run-time of a special just bringing all the cast together and dealing with the baggage. Imagine Rose dealing with the reality that there's been 3 other Doctors and their companions running around since she was exiled to the Phantom Zone. Which version of the Master is showing up this time and just how did he cheat death once again? And as far as the TV side of the franchise is concerned, Romana is still stuck in E-Space to this day, so she'd have to be brought up to speed on the Time War, where Gallifrey was for ages, and everything that's happened since.

tl;dr: Could you do it? Would the BBC agree to the budget? Never.

>the Grover Cleveland of Doctors

Oh yeah, I meant to include a star note for this, for the benefit of those readers who might not be au courant on obscure matters of 19th-century American politics: Grover Cleveland was elected President of the United States in 1884 and again in 1892, having lost the 1888 election (barely, in the Electoral College) to Benjamin Harrison. He is thus officially both the 22nd and 24th President of the United States, the only time so far in history that this has happened.

However, the parallel is not exact, because Cleveland and his second successor, William McKinley, were not both president at the same time following the 1896 election. Bi-presidencies are only a myth. (And if there ever did happen to be one, I imagine it would be resolved, uh... a lot less smoothly than the whole 14th<->15th Doctor thing.)

Speaking of which, there's something that I can't stop being bothered by about that development, and it's not the one that half the commenters on YouTube seem to be bothered about. It's just... where did the mass come from? I know, I know, this is a setting in which a 1960s London police box contains an entire ZIP code (though we never see most of it) and screwdrivers can repair cut barbed wire, but... where did the mass come from?!

It reminds me of nothing so much as all those Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe entries (e.g., the one for the Hulk) which just throw up their hands and admit that no one in-universe knows, because no one out-of-universe ever stopped to consider, where the mass comes from. The phrase "apparently extradimensional source" appears a lot. :)

In fairness to Marvel's entire stable of writers between the 1960s and OHOTMU's creation in the '80s, nobody who writes a sci-fi story in which someone or -thing grows bigger, or shrinks, or duplicates ever seems to think about that. But I think about it. I can't not think about it.

Where did the mass come from?

--G.
also, is 15 the first Doctor to start out with no pants? 11 took his off at one point in his first episode... no, wait. 3 woke up in a hospital johnny, didn't he? and 8 was naked because in a morgue drawer. still, it's... uncommon
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

If you haven't seen "The Power of the Doctor" yet, then you'll find this only slightly more puzzling then the question of when did Time Lords gain the ability to convert one set of clothing into another during regeneration. The production staff says it was to prevent "certain fans" from having a fit over the last shot of the episode be Tennant standing in Whittaker's wardrobe, but when you consider not only the events of the episode but that Whittaker had popped into being wearing Capaldi's duds without too much fuss, it's rather weak sauce.

LAST EDITED ON May-21-24 AT 08:05 AM (EDT)
 
>If you haven't seen "The Power of the Doctor" yet, then you'll find
>this only slightly more puzzling then the question of when did Time
>Lords gain the ability to convert one set of clothing into another
>during regeneration. The production staff says it was to
>prevent "certain fans" from having a fit over the last shot of the
>episode be Tennant standing in Whittaker's wardrobe, but when you
>consider not only the events of the episode but that Whittaker had
>popped into being wearing Capaldi's duds without too much fuss, it's
>rather weak sauce.

No, it wasn't the 'fans' they were worried about. It was the media. And given how much worse a large portion of the British media has gotten about trans people and even mere cross-dressing and drag, it was entirely so Tennant (Who is VERY supportive of trans people) didn't murder at least five terfs between Power of the Doctor and the 60th specials. And he damn near did anyway.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

>No, it wasn't the 'fans' they were worried about. It was the media.
>And given how much worse a large portion of the British media has
>gotten about trans people and even mere cross-dressing and drag, it
>was entirely so Tennant (Who is VERY supportive of trans people)
>didn't murder at least five terfs between Power of the Doctor and the
>60th specials. And he damn near did anyway.

I would pay good money to see David Tennant vs. Kellie-Jean "Posie Parker" Keen or JK Rowling in a fight.

--
Jen Dantes - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lady of Sith Tech Support.
"This may not be a good idea, but it's the only one I have."

>I would pay good money to see David Tennant vs. Kellie-Jean "Posie
>Parker" Keen or JK Rowling in a fight.

David would pay that money.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

I only knew about Grover Cleveland because of one of the examples in the Wikipedia article on the Double Dactyl poem form:

Higgledy piggledy,
Benjamin Harrison
23rd President
Was, and as such,

Served between Clevelands and,
Save for this trivial
Idiosyncrasy,
Didn't do much.

>It's just... where
>did the mass come from?

Common consensus is that when 14 reaches the end of his run, his regeneration will bounce back to the bigeneration, because the toymaker slightly broke the timeline there. So the mass comes from his future self.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

>>the Grover Cleveland of Doctors
>
>Oh yeah, I meant to include a star note for this, for the benefit of
>those readers who might not be au courant on obscure matters of
>19th-century American politics: Grover Cleveland was elected President
>of the United States in 1884 and again in 1892, having lost the 1888
>election (barely, in the Electoral College) to Benjamin Harrison. He
>is thus officially both the 22nd and 24th President of the
>United States, the only time so far in history that this has happened.

...

...

... it's not my fault, OK?

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>... it's not my fault, OK?
>
Don't worry, wouldn't be fair to blame you for that; even in jest.