~Yes, the CHILD.

I must say that your complete burn on Mortal Kombat in Battle 3 was not only completely wonderful, but directed at one of the stupidest looking games ever. Though MK was a good game, and really was part of the last set of fighting games you could just play and have a fifty/fifty chance of doing well at on your first fight, it looked, well, icky. The burn was soooo sweet that I always find myself bubbling with joy every time I even think about it. Gracios.

>~Yes, the CHILD.
>
>I must say that your complete burn on Mortal Kombat in Battle 3 was
>not only completely wonderful, but directed at one of the stupidest
>looking games ever. Though MK was a good game, and really was part of
>the last set of fighting games you could just play and have a
>fifty/fifty chance of doing well at on your first fight, it looked,
>well, icky. The burn was soooo sweet that I always find myself
>bubbling with joy every time I even think about it. Gracios.

I must shamefully confess that I don't recall exactly what it was...

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>I must shamefully confess that I don't recall exactly what it was...
>

Almost positive it's at the very end of Battle 03:

"I suppose not," Ken said, warming to his idea, "but we've got charm and class! Only wouldn't it be cool if, instead of this 3D polygon stuff, it was a hand-drawn anime-style game, y'know, with 2D animated sprites, like a modern version of Karate Master? Yeah, that'd kick! I'll have to make some calls."

"I'd pay real money to see you get M. Bison to agree to be in a video game," I remarked.

"Watch me," Ken said with a smirk. "He'll do it; it'll feed his ego."

"Why hand-drawn?" Janet wondered.

Ken shrugged. "Looks cool. Cooler than polygons, anyway. If you get the right artists."

"If you're going to make it sprite-based," Ryu wondered, pausing for a moment to take Zoner for a ride on Splash Mountain, "why not use digitized photos of the fighters?"

Ken, Sakura, Zoner, Janet and I all winced together and said in unison, "Eew!"

"OK, maybe not," Ryu said, shrugging and returning his full concentration to the game.

Unless there's another fighting game with characters based on digitized photos of the fighters that you were bashing. :)

------------------------
"saaaausaaaage... "
------------------------
Chad Collier
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company

>Unless there's another fighting game with characters based on
>digitized photos of the fighters that you were bashing. :)

I'm almost certain I was bashing some other game, but now I can't remember what it was.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-01 AT 09:12 PM (EDT)

>I'm almost certain I was bashing some other game, but now I
>can't remember what it was.

I've always assumed that you were talking about MK there. But, since you think you weren't, I'm guessing that you were bashing Way of the Warrior, a 3DO title that couldn't even get right what MK got right.

Man, Naughty Dog has come a long way since then.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
"It's not easy being green." -- Kermit the Frog

>>I'm almost certain I was bashing some other game, but now I
>>can't remember what it was.
>
>I've always assumed that you were talking about MK there. But, since
>you think you weren't, I'm guessing that you were bashing Way of
>the Warrior, a 3DO title that couldn't even get right what MK
>got right.

Never seen that one; I have a sneaking suspicion I was, in my own mind, actually ragging on a very bad and very obscure game called Pit-Fighter (circa 1989), which a friend of mine in high school was unaccountably fond of.

It works as a Mortal Kombat riff as well, though, since I can't stand that damn game. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>Never seen that one; I have a sneaking suspicion I was, in my own
>mind, actually ragging on a very bad and very obscure game called
>Pit-Fighter (circa 1989), which a friend of mine in high school
>was unaccountably fond of.

Oh, that game. I remember it vaguely; it was a bad wrestling game with scanned photos for the sprites. I think one of the bonus stages had something to do with a forklift and several women in bikinis, but I might be confusing it with an SNL skit.

Actually, I think it works as a generic riff, since I can't think of any good fighting games that use scanned photos for their images. Street Fighter: the Movie is the closest to "good", but it still stinks like six-month-old compost.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
"It's not easy being green." -- Kermit the Frog

>Actually, I think it works as a generic riff, since I can't think of
>any good fighting games that use scanned photos for their
>images. Street Fighter: the Movie is the closest to "good", but it
>still stinks like six-month-old compost.

Well, Street Fighter: The Movie stank like six-month-old compost, so you really couldn't expect the game to be a whole lot better. It's actually a decent idea, using scanned photos, but the best implementation was in MK... a game that's needlessly violent, poorly executed, has a boring plot, and has terrible visuals.
-Eliot "Never impressed by MK" Lefebvre
-=()=-
We're only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.
Electronic Transcendence Productions
Producer of, um, stuff for an unspecified time-period.
Thoughts of the moment, and such

LAST EDITED ON Jul-31-01 AT 10:39 AM (EDT)

>It's actually a decent idea, using scanned photos, but the
>best implementation was in MK... a game that's needlessly violent,
>poorly executed, has a boring plot, and has terrible visuals.

Well, yeah. But the MK movie was actually amusing. Robin Shou is fairly good at random butt-kicking, they had lots of mooks (gotta have the mooks!)...

And in general, it was a good 'Remember the Admonition' movie.

(The Admonition, of course, is from MST3K: "IF you're wondering how he eats and breathes and other science facts, just repeat to yourself: "It's just a show, I should really just relax."")

--
Geoff Depew - Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Malakite of Lightning and Angel of Tech Support Professionals
(They won't give me LARTs, they say that's restricted to Michael.)

>Robin Shou is fairly good at random butt-kicking, they had lots of mooks (gotta have the mooks!)...
>

This has been in some Oriental RPGs and action games. What's a Mook?

Tom 'Dreamshadow' Tjarks
------------------------
"Welcome to Ninja Burger. If you can see me, you get a free slurpee."

>This has been in some Oriental RPGs and action games. What's a Mook?

A random guy to get beat up/shot/disintegrated. Basically, all of the thugs you bash away at in Final Fight are mooks of some variety. They don't have names or personalities, just a talent for getting hit by stuff.
-Eliot "I'm not going into Named and Nameless" Lefebvre
-=()=-
We're only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.
Electronic Transcendence Productions
Producer of, um, stuff for an unspecified time-period.
Thoughts of the moment, and such

>>This has been in some Oriental RPGs and action games. What's a Mook?
>A random guy to get beat up/shot/disintegrated. Basically, all of the
>thugs you bash away at in Final Fight are mooks of some variety. They
>don't have names or personalities, just a talent for getting hit by
>stuff.

See also "scrub" -- a one-scene nameless character in a movie or book, whose only purpose is to give the hero something to kill or outwit so he looks cool. GURPS Black Ops has an excellent section on the care and killing of scrubs by PCs who possess the Totally Badass advantage.

-- Bob
---------------
"Shinji. Same name as the master key -- well done, Ikari. Shinji can't be copied. Splendid plan." -- Tabris, in Tenshi Muyo! Rei-o-ohki

>See also "scrub" -- a one-scene nameless character in a movie or book,
>whose only purpose is to give the hero something to kill or outwit so
>he looks cool. GURPS Black Ops has an excellent section
>on the care and killing of scrubs by PCs who possess the Totally
>Badass advantage.

I've not played Feng Shui, but an early review of it noted that one of its rules conventions included differentiation between nameless characters (mooks) and named characters (PCs, villains). In short, the nameless characters could never do in a named character. They could stand and unload round after round at the named PCs, and they'd just be whiffing all day, maybe clipping them but never having the vaguest chance of actually accomplishing anything.

Reminds me of a joke about TFTM. "Remember, Decepticons, it's the movie now, so our guns will actually WORK on them!"
-Eliot "Don't f*ck with Megatron" Lefebvre
-=()=-
We're only given a little time in our lives to waste. Make the most of it.
Electronic Transcendence Productions
Producer of, um, stuff for an unspecified time-period.
Thoughts of the moment, and such

>I've not played Feng Shui, but an early review of it
>noted that one of its rules conventions included differentiation
>between nameless characters (mooks) and named characters (PCs,
>villains). In short, the nameless characters could never do in a
>named character. They could stand and unload round after round at the
>named PCs, and they'd just be whiffing all day, maybe clipping them
>but never having the vaguest chance of actually accomplishing
>anything.

Hrmm...would this mean that SFWL Ben Hutchins was a Mook in a movie then?

Tom 'Dreamshadow' Tjarks
------------------------
"Never wear the color red when doing desktop support. Bad things happen."

>Hrmm...would this mean that SFWL Ben Hutchins was a Mook in a movie
>then?

Sounds like it. Zoner too.

--G.
(more familiar with the GURPS Black Ops term)
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>Hrmm...would this mean that SFWL Ben Hutchins was a Mook in a movie
>then?

You mean in "Revenge of the Vengeful Ninja Warrior II: The Vengeance"? Actually, he's a disposable extra. It's mentioned he takes out two of the evil ninja before catching a shuriken in the forehead.

Gryphon plays a Sacrifice Extra.

The evil ninjas that fall to the Sacrifice Extra are mooks.

Basically, in the Mortal Kombat movie, all the guiys with the red floofy pants and the bad ski masks are mooks (as is shown when one puffs and preens and makes noise and is turned into Mr. Snowman in a single shot by Sub-Zero - that's perfect mook maneuver). For the more high-minded about, go watch the opening of 'Hard Boiled' - Chow Yun-Fat is a Hero, and just about everyone shooting at him in the teahouse is a mook.

--
Geoff Depew - Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Malakite of Lightning and Angel of Tech Support Professionals
(They won't give me LARTs, they say that's restricted to Michael.)

LAST EDITED ON Aug-02-01 AT 05:25 PM (EDT)

>I've not played Feng Shui, but an early review of it
>noted that one of its rules conventions included differentiation
>between nameless characters (mooks) and named characters (PCs,
>villains). In short, the nameless characters could never do in a
>named character. They could stand and unload round after round at the
>named PCs, and they'd just be whiffing all day, maybe clipping them
>but never having the vaguest chance of actually accomplishing
>anything.
So they work like that broken switch on Storm Trooper rifles that allows them to be hyper accurate on Jawas, items, off screen stuff and other storm troopers (remember the one trooper in Docking Bay 92?) but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at 3 paces when it comes to shooting at the good guys?
Fan "who remembers the mook injoke in Double Dragon with that dude who was stole that candy bar in the lounge in Die Hard"

Mooks, from what I read in the Feng Shui game (can't be bothered to move the three meteres to the bookcase right now) fuse the worst qualities of Imperial Stormtroopers and StarFleet Security. They can't (effectively) hit what they shoot at and they'll die if a named character spits in their general direction.

The 'effectively' allows them to inflict minor wounds when dramatically necessary (or funny), before the victim or their S.O. eviserates the mook in question.

drakensisthered

So I simply said one of the great trite truths: "There is generally more than one side to a story." - Corwin, Roger Zelazny's 'Courts of Chaos'

~Yes, the CHILD.

But, face it, we can't live without the Mooks. They open one of the greatest action movie (over done to a science) jokes of, well, "Oh please."

Hey, would that make the fem Spanish Ninja in WL Battle 1 a Mook? She slices once then gets her wrist broken.

>
>>Robin Shou is fairly good at random butt-kicking, they had lots of mooks (gotta have the mooks!)...
>>
>
>This has been in some Oriental RPGs and action games. What's a Mook?

Mook is gangster-ese for a thug. It was adopted by Feng Shui (currently published by Atlas Games) as the term for the hordes that fold in the fist/sword/gun fight against the named characters. My particular favorite mook-actor is Al Leong, whose droopy moustache and long hair make for a great bad guy. You can see Al in a number of movies, including "Big Trouble in Little China," "Lethal Weapon," and "Die Hard." He was also the fight coordinator for the second Kung Fu TV series.

Ebony the Black Dragon
aka Draco Draconis Ebenium
known to the Generic Order of Occidental Ninja (G.O.O.N.) as Aaron F. Johnson,
Senior Editor, Living Room Games
http://www.lrgames.com

>y
>particular favorite mook-actor is Al Leong, whose droopy moustache and
>long hair make for a great bad guy. You can see Al in a number of
>movies, including "Big Trouble in Little China," "Lethal Weapon," and
>"Die Hard." He was also the fight coordinator for the second Kung Fu
>TV series.

He rocks! Giant Robot did a story on him earlier this year. He is _soo_ cool! Ancient, but cool.

In a WL world, could Al be a street fighter?

t.

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

>>y
>>particular favorite mook-actor is Al Leong, whose droopy moustache and
>>long hair make for a great bad guy. You can see Al in a number of
>>movies, including "Big Trouble in Little China," "Lethal Weapon," and
>>"Die Hard." He was also the fight coordinator for the second Kung Fu
>>TV series.
>
>He rocks! Giant Robot did a story on him earlier this year. He is
>_soo_ cool! Ancient, but cool.
>
>In a WL world, could Al be a street fighter?
>

Perhaps a trainer. For one of the tongs of Chinatown.

"China is here, Mr. Burton."

Ebony the Black Dragon
aka Draco Draconis Ebenium
known to David Lo Pan as Aaron F. Johnson,
Senior Editor, Living Room Games
http://www.lrgames.com

("Well, you know what Aaron F. Johnson says at a time like this ....")
("Who?")
("Aaron F. Johnson ... Me!")

~Yes, the CHILD.

Hell, I've seen Pit Fighter at at least three different hotels and in at least one pizza parlor. It did suck, though. You could pick up weapons, but, with that classic flaw, the other players just bashed you when you stood up. It was just a bad bad game.