Starting off with from a few days ago:
Unnamed's female model debut

And in less good news
Announcement from Yuuki Sakuna
Roughly and with background: She's going to stop working with her artist Gaou and will be looking into commissioning a new model (after it came out that he slept with a 14 year old)

>And in less good news Announcement from Yuuki Sakuna
>Roughly and with background: She's going to stop working with her
>artist Gaou and will be looking into commissioning a new model (after
>it came out that he slept with a 14 year old)

Ooof, sorry she has to do that, but it's a good reason to drop him like a hot rock.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

LAST EDITED ON Jul-03-25 AT 10:05 AM (EDT)
 
oh hi shachi
waiting room short cover
equip sunglasses short cover

>equip gunglasses short cover

I didn't realize that was a typo at first, because "gunglasses" totally sound like a Shachi thing to do

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

Yubari Rei debut stream (pretty much entirely in Japanese)
And cover: Sunny

ye gods, they're right.

As one of the twitter replies to the original post put it,

Tired: making your indie vtuber design your old corpo vtuber with some serial numbers filed off
Wired: making your indie vtuber design the love child of your old corpo vtuber and your best friend's old corpo vtuber

--G.
genius
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

The catfish is trying to get filleted in her first collab stream.

A dramatization of the expected response:

LAST EDITED ON Jul-17-25 AT 10:52 AM (EDT)
 
>And in less good news
>Announcement from Yuuki Sakuna
>Roughly and with background: She's going to stop working with her
>artist Gaou and will be looking into commissioning a new model (after
>it came out that he slept with a 14 year old)

Talking about the issue
Rough summary: Surprised, completely out of nowhere. Financially probably going to be painful, future plans will change. She may also even comm 2 models at the same time in the future from different artists to hedge against this sort of craziness.

A new cat vtuber named Kurageu Roa has debuted and I'm noticing the distinct smell of garlic around her.

And a desire to wed a fish.

LAST EDITED ON Jul-21-25 AT 04:50 AM (EDT)
 
>And a desire to wed a fish.

Well, kusogaki gotta stick together. Though the jerboa might have a thing or two to say.

Nimi Nightmare is getting married

Well holy crap!

Well, THAT was certainly not on my 2025 bingo card.

At least it's positive news for once. Anytime I see anything vtubing related pop up in my twitter suggestions lately, I automatically go "oh fuck, what went wrong now?"

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

>At least it's positive news for once. Anytime I see anything vtubing
>related pop up in my twitter suggestions lately, I automatically go
>"oh fuck, what went wrong now?"

Oh, no doubt. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.

Though I am now curious if this was the real reason she graduated.

>Though I am now curious if this was the real reason she graduated.

Indirectly maybe, as in the long trips to Japan might've been putting a strain on their relationship.

I still think though that it was a bit of a "ragequit" on her part; between how upset she sounded when announcing her graduation and not having her full model ready for debut, I think she left earlier than she was planning on.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

>Nimi Nightmare is getting married

I'm amused by the replies (and comments on YouTube videos about same development) to the effect of, "Well, this oughta weed out some of the wackos. Why is this business idol-coded in the first place again?"

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Phoebe Chan 5 Year Anniversary
(other notes: She revealed she was one of the ones that passed the last Vshojo round and would've debuted with an idol themed unit before, well, everything. She also was one of the openers for past Mint concerts and other appearances)

*sigh*

So, just when you thought things might have calmed down and the indie tuber realm was returning to some measure of harmony, Sinder pops back up after months of silence to dump a 1000 page "response" to the allegations made by Nano, Shylily, and others back in the spring.

And the tl;dr could really be "nobody in this looks good." Sinder's Google doc finally includes the context folks were looking for at the beginning of all this drama and most of the receipts she served up add weight to the theories that Lily and Nano were being less than honest about their motives. That said, Sinder still looks like a bad friend, Red looks like a manipulative jackass, and Bao and Numi are in desperate need of a hug.

If you're not invested in anybody involved in this, I can totally understand why you wouldn't care. Because it's like watching the vtuber equiv of Mean Girls.

>theories that Lily and Nano were being less than honest about their
>motives.

I've said this before and it may even have been here once, but one of the key points in me reaching the conclusion "there is something really rotten here" was when Numi, Bao, Cotton, Yuzu, Tricky, Vienna, and probably some other people whose names are not coming to me at the moment were all upset at minimum... and Lily was describing events in a tone of smug satisfaction.

>That said, Sinder still looks like a bad friend, Red looks
>like a manipulative jackass,

And that's according to Sinder and Red!

It's frustrating seeing people going "It's just her saying she did nothing wrong" when she repeatedly talks about things she did do (and things she didn't but should have) that were wrong.

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)

>I've said this before and it may even have been here once, but one of
>the key points in me reaching the conclusion "there is something
>really rotten here" was when Numi, Bao, Cotton, Yuzu, Tricky, Vienna,
>and probably some other people whose names are not coming to me at the
>moment were all upset at minimum... and Lily was describing events in
>a tone of smug satisfaction.

I believe you did say something to that effect here. And really, speaking for myself, I can understand why it was easy to miss that considering the sudden bombardment of multiple Google docs and reaction streams from everybody involved. One could be forgiven for interpreting Lily's tone as one of a person slighted feeling vindication rather than of someone with ulterior motives seeing them come to fruition.

>And that's according to Sinder and Red!
>
>It's frustrating seeing people going "It's just her saying she did
>nothing wrong" when she repeatedly talks about things she did do (and
>things she didn't but should have) that were wrong.

At the same time, I agree with many of the voices that she says she recognizes her mistakes and acknowledges them, yet she's not excising the biggest one (her relationship with Red) out of her life or at the very least ending his involvement as her manager. The man's actions have cost her money, her friendships, devalued her brand, and (arguably) sparked this entire fiasco in the first place...yet she's "talked it out with him" and she's keeping him around.

>One could be forgiven for
>interpreting Lily's tone as one of a person slighted feeling
>vindication rather than of someone with ulterior motives seeing them
>come to fruition.

I'm having a hard time tracking that really, since... well it just doesn't seem like they were that close, and since (as I understood it) no work for her by Nano had been affected, her level of... let's say, emotional investment seemed rather extreme.

(Oh, and going "don't listen to anything she says!" is like the most fucking suspicious thing ever.)

>At the same time, I agree with many of the voices that she says she
>recognizes her mistakes and acknowledges them, yet she's not excising
>the biggest one (her relationship with Red) out of her life or at the
>very least ending his involvement as her manager. The man's actions
>have cost her money, her friendships, devalued her brand, and
>(arguably) sparked this entire fiasco in the first place...yet she's
>"talked it out with him" and she's keeping him around.

This is something I still feel a bit uncomfortable discussing, since I continue to feel that a lot of the relationship focused discourse was super misogynistic, but that revealing it in the first place was a wrongful act by whoever it was again; who Sinder dates or doesn't isn't really the business of anyone out here in the cheap seats.

But, well, the not revealing it ship has sailed, so.

Ultimately... giving up an SO is a hard thing. And there's a question of proportionate retribution here. If Sinder doesn't deserve to lose her livelihood over all this (and I don't think she does) then neither does Red, and losing their relationship is even less justifiable than that. And... hmmm, I don't think anyone who ever really cared about her out of her regular social circle would make 'cast Red out of your life!' a requirement to give her another shot. (Something I am still holding out hope for.)

To more directly address the keeping him as a manager part, I'm a practical sort. No one seems to have suggested there were any issues outside of his communications with contractors (and not even that very often); as long as the problem behavior does not recur, I think that's sufficient.

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)

>I'm having a hard time tracking that really, since... well it just
>doesn't seem like they were that close, and since (as I understood it)
>no work for her by Nano had been affected, her level of... let's say,
>emotional investment seemed rather extreme.
>
>(Oh, and going "don't listen to anything she says!" is like the most
>fucking suspicious thing ever.)

Like I said, I'm speaking mostly for myself and in retrospect I think I was easily swept up into the group narrative rather than keeping an open mind. And I was such a fan of the group dynamic between Sinder and others (Bao, Numi, Yuzu, Tricky, and Vienna in particular) that hearing it was all a sham felt like a serious betrayal. So yeah, it sounds like excuse-making, but I really was willing to take Lily's accusations at face value in absence of convincing evidence to the contrary.

And having said all that, it occurs to me now that Lily is in a very uncomfortable position, between Sinder's counter-accusations and Nano's own admissions about where things stood at the time.

>This is something I still feel a bit uncomfortable discussing, since I
>continue to feel that a lot of the relationship focused discourse was
>super misogynistic, but that revealing it in the first place was a
>wrongful act by whoever it was again; who Sinder dates or doesn't
>isn't really the business of anyone out here in the cheap seats.
>
>But, well, the not revealing it ship has sailed, so.
>
>Ultimately... giving up an SO is a hard thing. And there's a question
>of proportionate retribution here. If Sinder doesn't deserve to lose
>her livelihood over all this (and I don't think she does) then neither
>does Red, and losing their relationship is even less justifiable than
>that. And... hmmm, I don't think anyone who ever really cared about
>her out of her regular social circle would make 'cast Red out of your
>life!' a requirement to give her another shot. (Something I am still
>holding out hope for.)
>
>To more directly address the keeping him as a manager part, I'm a
>practical sort. No one seems to have suggested there were any issues
>outside of his communications with contractors (and not even that very
>often); as long as the problem behavior does not recur, I think that's
>sufficient.

Having touched on my being a fan of the group rather than simply of any one person involved in this whole mess, I'd be remiss if I didn't also admit a very selfish desire for some path forward that would basically erase the events of the last five months. And that I'm still somewhat following the group think in that path being Sinder at the very least dropping Red as her manager.

All in all, I guess I finally find myself realizing that I've fallen prey to the very impulses that I used to criticize older generations of, namely wanting to find some "easy" way to turn back to the clock if only get that easy dopamine hit of nostalgia.

>Having touched on my being a fan of the group rather than simply of
>any one person involved in this whole mess, I'd be remiss if I didn't
>also admit a very selfish desire for some path forward that would
>basically erase the events of the last five months. And that I'm
>still somewhat following the group think in that path being Sinder at
>the very least dropping Red as her manager.

I think that's a pretty understandable desire, given the "we could have avoided all of this" aspect - it's not that there weren't any actual problems in there, but there's very little that needed to be this massive public thing.

I would have been fairly sympathetic to the position that it would be better to drop Red as manager before the doc, but there are certain things he says in Sinder's doc that hold a lot of weight with me, and... well, to borrow a line from our host, I don't like to harp at people who already get it.

Also, I couldn't help but wonder how much effort it takes to find a manager; given a lot of factors around the whole thing it doesn't seem like it'd be as easy as just going down to the local Job-U-Lots. (And also, uh, while I'm not on board with some of the wilder theories about their relationship for multiple reasons, that Red would have made up a larger proportion of Sinder's social support for the last few months probably has some impact.)

However, there's been a new development. In her announcement that she'd be streaming... a couple hours from now... she said that Red isn't acting as her manager anymore (but is still going to mod for her). Is that surprisingly fast? Well, maybe, maybe not. If she already had other people involved, a decision to rearrange things wouldn't take that long. (But I've also seen a theory that the decision was made a while back, but the part about keeping Red as manager was left in the doc by mistake.) Of course, nobody who's not dealing with the backend will be able to tell the difference, but some people sure are running their mouths about it.

And I just have to shake my head at people calling her saying she'd like to move on now, when the doc pretty heavily implied that having said her piece she was going to put it behind her and go back to streaming. Also bizarre that people are complaining about the "don't harass people" clause when a) of course it's better if no one is harassed, and b) Sinder's community is, AFAIK, the only one that's been handing out actual bans for it.

In quieter but potentially hopeful news, someone noticed that Cotton has refollowed Sinder on twitter. They weren't as close as the girliepops, but they have collabed a few times, so that's something.

-IA.

(do you remember when we were together in that vast immensity of nothingness?)

>Bao and Numi are in desperate need of a hug.

Bao is apparently extra in need of a hug, as she is dealing with a family issue (an aunt she is very close to had a stroke), and Numi has Michi in the US with her and is almost certainly getting a lot of hugs, and hopefully they're finally gonna smooch some in the month Michi is here.

(full disclosure: after seeing Cottontail with F1nn5ter, the next vtuber I saw was Michi, and she is, basically, my kami-oshi. So things going well for her like this is nice to see. After the shitshow that this year has been she needs some cuddling.)

--
Jen Dantes - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lady of Sith Tech Support.
"This may not be a good idea, but it's the only one I have."

So lately I've been like, are Numi and Michi actually a couple? Or something approaching it?

Because I know about the usual ship tease being the usual, but some of the clips I've seen come across as... more than that. (And if so, good for them! Just, you know, confuzzled out here in the facing-the-wrong-way seats.)

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)

>So lately I've been like, are Numi and Michi actually a couple? Or
>something approaching it?
>
>Because I know about the usual ship tease being the usual, but some of
>the clips I've seen come across as... more than that. (And if so, good
>for them! Just, you know, confuzzled out here in the
>facing-the-wrong-way seats.)

From an outsider's perspective, they're about as much of a couple as two girl failures get.

>So lately I've been like, are Numi and Michi actually a couple? Or
>something approaching it?
>
>Because I know about the usual ship tease being the usual, but some of
>the clips I've seen come across as... more than that. (And if so, good
>for them! Just, you know, confuzzled out here in the
>facing-the-wrong-way seats.)
>
>-IA.
>
>(received information not interpretable)

I'm not a watcher of Numi but I am led to believe from more knowledgeable viewers that she's largely a flirt, whether for content or that's just how she is. There's some noise about how she and Cottontail used to be close/same flirting relationship, then Cottontail visited her, after which something clearly went wrong and they rapidly cooled off. I can't say whether that's a mischaracterization of things or not, and also whether even if it's not if this dynamic is different.

>I'm not a watcher of Numi but I am led to believe from more
>knowledgeable viewers that she's largely a flirt, whether for content
>or that's just how she is. There's some noise about how she and
>Cottontail used to be close/same flirting relationship, then
>Cottontail visited her, after which something clearly went wrong and
>they rapidly cooled off. I can't say whether that's a
>mischaracterization of things or not, and also whether even if it's
>not if this dynamic is different.

I mean, I don't think you set "go to the US to visit someone" as a subathon goal and then call them the moment you hit that point to tell them, and then go there for 30 days (the max length of a visa from Indonesia from the US) if it's just for a bit.

I have gone a long way for a bit, and 30 days in another country is quite a bit farther than I'd be willing to go. I think that Purple Yuri (the nickname for Numi/Michi due to their hair colors) is as real as Obkatiekat/Fufu is.

--
Jen Dantes - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lady of Sith Tech Support.
"This may not be a good idea, but it's the only one I have."

>>I'm not a watcher of Numi but I am led to believe from more
>>knowledgeable viewers that she's largely a flirt, whether for content
>>or that's just how she is. There's some noise about how she and
>>Cottontail used to be close/same flirting relationship, then
>>Cottontail visited her, after which something clearly went wrong and
>>they rapidly cooled off. I can't say whether that's a
>>mischaracterization of things or not, and also whether even if it's
>>not if this dynamic is different.
>
>I mean, I don't think you set "go to the US to visit someone" as a
>subathon goal and then call them the moment you hit that point
>to tell them, and then go there for 30 days (the max length of a visa
>from Indonesia from the US) if it's just for a bit.
>
>I have gone a long way for a bit, and 30 days in another country is
>quite a bit farther than I'd be willing to go. I think that Purple
>Yuri (the nickname for Numi/Michi due to their hair colors) is as real
>as Obkatiekat/Fufu is.
>

I recognize the viewpoint, however I also am not willing to set a floor for how unable to actually talk to each other like adults (to confirm it's just a bit/their brand) that people are, subset population people on the internet, further subset population people who are streamers, further further subset population people who are Vtubers.

>Bao is apparently extra in need of a hug, as she is dealing with a
>family issue (an aunt she is very close to had a stroke),

I had not heard about that. Keeerist, that woman cannot catch a break.

>and Numi has
>Michi in the US with her and is almost certainly getting a lot of
>hugs, and hopefully they're finally gonna smooch some in the month
>Michi is here.

Purple yuri for the win!

>(full disclosure: after seeing Cottontail with F1nn5ter, the next
>vtuber I saw was Michi, and she is, basically, my kami-oshi. So
>things going well for her like this is nice to see. After the shitshow
>that this year has been she needs some cuddling.)

Being Numi is suffering.

(Only realized when I went checking the previous Indie thread for where we left off in the Sinder Saga that I'd said I'd pay for a Michi-Numi in-person stream. The check's in the mail.)

So it's been a day and Nanoless has now responded to Sinder's Google doc. The TL;DR is she admits she was overwhelmed due to a combination of mental issues (i.e. burnout), language barriers, and not having a manager to keep her grounded. That she did speak openly to both Sinder and Red about being overwhelmed, that she was considering canceling commissions to focus on working for Sinder, and she was the one who floated the "exclusivity contract" with Sinder rather than the other way around. And she's sought help since the drama blew up to get things under control.

So far, none of the other players in this kerfuffle have spoken publicly about the Google doc. Which is not really indicative of much considering both the size of the doc and things going on in their own lives. But I can't help but remark on how quickly they all ganged up upon Sinder when this all began...

>So it's been a day and Nanoless has now responded to Sinder's Google
>doc.

Got a link for that?

(And I thought her husband was supposed to be her manager? Unless that's only for the vtuber side of things and not the artist side, or something.)

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)

>Got a link for that?

Ah yes, sorry for that

>(And I thought her husband was supposed to be her manager? Unless
>that's only for the vtuber side of things and not the artist side, or
>something.)

I believe you're right, though in this case it may be the same issue that Sinder has, i.e. the talent is too close to the management to realize that they are getting bad advice.

Nana Asteria 3D Debut
Guests: Ririsya (my favorite JP indie), Kureiji Ollie (hololive ID), Jurard T Rexford (holostars EN), Octavio (holostars EN)

Kinda late but it works out since the game itself is almost out
Ririsya did the theme song for Million Depth, an upcoming indie game

LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-25 AT 12:22 PM (EDT)
 
The talent behind the hastily departed Ike Eveland reappeared recently, as both one point of an apparent unwanted love triangle and also as one of Doki's friends people whom Dokibird has accepted into her life again (at least) friends, leading much more credence to my personal theory that Ike was at that Elira/Vox black screen stream (Which is STILL UP) slandering Selen back when just to add an air of respectability to the joint.

The whole thing had the vibe of a hostage situation, and now, thanks to various revelations about the former Reimu Endou (Nee MarieFD) and other matters in NijiEN we have a better idea as to *why*.

In other ex-Niji news, the former Rosemi Lovelock has returned to a minor degree at the moment with her previous life, Fuzuki Miki. She apparently spent time recently with Matarakann in real life, so there's a good chance she's one of the good (ex)Nijis, for those around here who are concerned about the possible scent of rotting garbage.

Edit: Added their joint statement before they played Fortnite. :)

>The talent behind the hastily departed Ike Eveland reappeared
>recently, as both one point of an apparent unwanted love triangle and

????

>also as one of Doki's friends people whom Dokibird has
>accepted into her life again (at least)
>friends, leading much
>more credence to my personal theory that Ike was at that Elira/Vox
>black screen stream (Which is STILL UP) slandering Selen back when
>just to add an air of respectability to the joint.

The replies to her tweet that they'd be playing together were wild, as you might expect. Some people were like "well, it's nice that you can let it go, but he's gonna have to do a lot more before I'LL forgive him" and others replying "oh ffs grow up, it's not for YOU to forgive" (which stance I find myself agreeing with).

--G.
Doki does as Doki will; she is the Gold Ship of vtubers. well, OK, Gold Ship is the Gold Ship of vtubers, but still
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>>The talent behind the hastily departed Ike Eveland reappeared
>>recently, as both one point of an apparent unwanted love triangle and
>
>????

Yeah, Reimu/MarieFD was reportedly literally throwing herself at him, flirting, talking with him a lot...but there's also some actual credence to the idea that Bari (Not gonna lie, the two names are confusing, because they're pronounced the same, like 'starry') his girlfriend at the time was overreacting, but also it seems like Ike/Xandu also noticed and wasn't exactly welcoming to it because *girlfriend*, and holy crap is that whole thing a confusing mess. Either way, poor Ike/Xandu was in the middle, on top of being forced to play nice with his bullies.

>The replies to her tweet that they'd be playing together were wild, as
>you might expect. Some people were like "well, it's nice that you can
>let it go, but he's gonna have to do a lot more before I'LL forgive
>him" and others replying "oh ffs grow up, it's not for YOU to forgive"
>(which stance I find myself agreeing with).

Yeah, we don't get to decide that, she does. And she didn't! Not until 'only a few days ago' which by sheer coincidence is about when his POV of the MarieFD/Bari debacle and some of the behind the scenes NijiEN horseshit was revealed.

It's getting pretty easy to see who the 'good' Nijis were at this point at least; they're the ones who are allowed to exist in a space within three degrees of Dokibird - Mint, Matara, potentially Fuzuki Miki.

>It's getting pretty easy to see who the 'good' Nijis were at this
>point at least; they're the ones who are allowed to exist in a space
>within three degrees of Dokibird - Mint, Matara, potentially Fuzuki
>Miki.

Oh yeah, I forgot Matara was ex-Niji. Man, she and Minto have NO luck with agencies.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

> Some people were like "well, it's nice that you can let it go, but he's gonna have to do a lot more before I'LL forgive him" and others replying "oh ffs grow up, it's not for YOU to forgive" (which stance I find myself agreeing with).

This is the sort of thing I have mixed feelings about.

On the one hand, if someone is like "I'm still not comfortable with $PERSON and don't really want to watch their stuff at this time", well that's their prerogative.

On the other hand, some people get way too invested, and "the person actually involved has said they're moving on, but I'm still going to make a scene out of my not doing so" definitely sounds too invested.

(And anyone who's going around with the explicit intent of annoying people about it can just fuck all the way off.)

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)

Even though the VShojo idol gen imploded, Mint, Phoebe, and Victoria are still moving forward.

>Even though the VShojo idol gen imploded, Mint, Phoebe, and Victoria
>are still moving forward.

"You want something done right, do it yourself."
- the 11th Doctor, out of context

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Victoria's official debut in 6 days. Previously she'd just been guesting/making cameos at events.

YES! You too could work for CyYu Tech Support^TM!

The Best of Rin Penrose 2025.

This being posted right after she no longer had to do any profit sharing, and she gets 100% of her revenue, as a tease for the stuff she does, is a power move and I am here for it.

Also Rin losing her mind for almost ten minutes, BECAUSE OF THE WOKE!!

--
Jen Dantes - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lady of Sith Tech Support.
"This may not be a good idea, but it's the only one I have."

Shachi did a muted drawing stream, and Nimi and Namie looked in.

She's not indie (signed with REJECT) but I didn't feel like making a thread just for her, so:
dtto's 3D debut