LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-24 AT 02:46 PM (EST)
 
Welp. The other shoe dropped. Selen's been fired, and she's started dropping tea on her past life account. No details yet from me, because I only trust one source for vtuber news, but...

I really, really hope Holo picks her up. Vshojo would be great but I really think that Holo needs somebody like her in their roster on the EN side. Ame is really the only holoEN girl who regularly does FPS games.

....her Channel's been privated, so I can't even see what Selen did before she got suspended to compare. Man.

EDIT: here is the news report from the one I trust, and HERE is a full archive of Selen's youtube videos.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-24 AT 10:28 AM (EST)
 
NIJISANJI's statement

Because with this one, everyone promptly said "fuck kayfabe", Selen's PL:
Xeet 1 Xeet 2 Xeet 3

Highlighting "an attempt". Yeah.

Re-debut on her old channel waiting room.

>Highlighting "an attempt". Yeah.

Hmm. So... wow. If that means what it seems to mean, it makes that termination notice come across as even more vindictive. "You good? Gonna pull through? That's great! You're fired."

--G.
also, I guess that kinda-sorta confirms where Mumei's been
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>also, I guess that kinda-sorta confirms where Mumei's
>been

Hard confirmed. Later tweets dropped that Mumei actually invited her to stay over with her to take her mind off things and that they watched Twilight together for the lulz.

>>also, I guess that kinda-sorta confirms where Mumei's
>>been
>
>Hard confirmed. Later tweets dropped that Mumei actually invited her
>to stay over with her to take her mind off things and that they
>watched Twilight together for the lulz.

Aw, that's really sweet. Mumei gives strong impressions of really valuing her space, so that says a lot.

--G.
also, Animol snuggles envy
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>also, Animol snuggles envy

"Guys you don’t understand, twilight is so funny, I thought it was just bad, sorry I mean “average”. I forgot about wolf puberty and how no one thought it was weird that the Cullens were banging their adopted siblings. Anyways her doggo is rly cute too 🐶"

I continue to be amazed that community notes haven't been removed yet. The one on the statement is very telling.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

>I continue to be amazed that community notes haven't been removed yet.
>The one on the statement is very telling.

Ha, wow. That wasn't there yet when I originally looked at the tweet. It has a certain dark beauty.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-24 AT 00:49 AM (EST)
 
AND they screwed up sending said artist the NDA because they kept writing down the wrong name on it. Three times.

EDIT:
There's at least one other person in the referenced thread who dealt with Selen and refused to sign an NDA because Niji never sent them one with the persons actual name on it. The person refused to sign until they did and they simply....never did.

EDIT to update: THE NEXT DAY, Anycolor sent the person an updated NDA.

Man, Niji's actions in this situation are a masterclass in vicious bastardry.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

And the Japanese statement is different from the English, saying there that she had other Niji members telling her to submit to the {Activity Rules}, which has contributed to the JP fans hating her more than they ever did and applauding the company, because Japan is just kinda Like That about conformity to peer pressure in a workplqce environment.

>And the Japanese statement is different from the English, saying there
>that she had other Niji members telling her to submit to the {Activity
>Rules}, which has contributed to the JP fans hating her more than they
>ever did and applauding the company, because Japan is just kinda Like
>That about conformity to peer pressure in a workplqce environment.

That makes sense, in a cruelly utilitarian, corporate sort of way. It seems like it's only a matter of time before Anycolor just cuts their losses and burns down the EN branch altogether, so it tracks that they would be doing whatever they can to keep the JP customer base on side while they do so.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

That's pretty much the consensus that I've seen in the short time since I saw my vtuber news, yeah. They're trying to keep the JP base ignorant of what's actually going on on the EN side.

>> because Japan is just kinda Like That about conformity to peer pressure in a workplqce environment.

Honestly one of the most offensive and disgusting parts of Japanese culture even in a modern era. I have no idea how it can be challenged or fixed.

I think the only thing people outside the culture can really do is make sure that companies that try to deliberately leverage it (like Anycolor/Nijisanji here) get called out. It's one thing to say you should go along with your co-workers; it's quite another to tell the public about peer pressure that didn't actually happen.

Honestly? It can't. Even just not wanting to go out drinking with your coworkers after work is seen as Not Being A Team Player and antisocial, regardless of how you feel after work (Or, presumably, whether or not you drink at all) and will get you shunned. This is a level of enforced social conformity that just can't be fixed without a complete tear down and rebuilding of the culture.

Needless to say, being an introvert is seen as being a complete fucking weirdo worthy of total scorn when you simply can't be out with loud, drunk, morons, particularly when you've been at work for 15 fucking hours because leaving with any work unfinished is ALSO seen as not being a team player....

Japanese company culture is a fucking cesspool.

>Honestly? It can't. Even just not wanting to go out drinking with your
>coworkers after work is seen as Not Being A Team Player and
>antisocial, regardless of how you feel after work (Or,
>presumably, whether or not you drink at all) and will get you shunned.
>This is a level of enforced social conformity that just can't be fixed
>without a complete tear down and rebuilding of the culture.
>
>Needless to say, being an introvert is seen as being a complete
>fucking weirdo worthy of total scorn when you simply can't be out with
>loud, drunk, morons, particularly when you've been at work for 15
>fucking hours because leaving with any work unfinished is ALSO seen as
>not being a team player....
>
>Japanese company culture is a fucking cesspool.

What's making it worse is that Anycolor (or at least NijiEN) is being accused by past and present talents of being a "black company." For those in the audience unaware of the term, it means Anycolor is being accused of operating as a (semi) legal sweatshop. The typical "black company" basically takes the negative aspects of Japanese business culture to the extreme, starting with the regular hiring of large batches of employees to compensate for high turnover rates, with an emphasis on younger workers who either need to pay off debts or are trying to get their start in a particular industry. They're expected to work inhuman levels of overtime without matching compensation due to management falsifying records or even forcing employees to do so. And workers are constantly subjected to abuse from both other employees and management, with the most common threat being of termination leading to being blacklisted in the entire industry for life. As you can probably guess, burnout and/or suicide rates are high and compensated for by frequently hiring new batches of fresh meat for the grinder.

>And workers are constantly subjected to abuse from both other
>employees and management, with the most common threat being of
>termination leading to being blacklisted in the entire industry for
>life. As you can probably guess, burnout and/or suicide rates are
>high

Occasionally, this phenomenon kills people who aren't even employees of the black company itself.

--G.
Admittedly, that kind of thing is less likely to happen in the livestreaming industry.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

While I don't know if Selen/Dokibird would want to jump back in to a corporate environment, especially one with as many requirements as Hololive (singing is one thing, dancing in mocap is something else), I feel certain that Mumei has 1) floated the question to her and 2) would move heaven and earth (or at least Yagoo's office) to get her in if she said "yes".

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

It'd open some floodgates I think. The vtuber "no-kill shelter" (I love that term) thus far has been VShojo, but they're primarily twitch, and the youtube folks haven't seemed to have adapted as well as many would hope, from what little I've seen.

While both Niji and Hololive have taken in graduated corpos before, Holo seems to do it more regularly - they account for almost a dozen members (If you know, you know, you know? Some are more obvious than others).

I really do think that Hololive needs someone else with Selen's taste in gaming on the EN side of things, too. HoloStars has a bunch, like her old TSB teammates, but I, at least, just....can't really sync with the Stars boys. It's a failing on my side, I know they're good at what they do, but I just....can't. I can't be alone in that. I really hope I'm not alone in that.

All that said, Selen - Doki - is *super* likely to join VShojo, if she joins anyone, because I'm *positive* she doesn't want to graduate Doki *again* just to be the worlds worst kept secret (After Kson) over at Hololive, or Idol or something, and Hololive is equally unlikely to let her join as Doki like they did with Suisei.

....Imagine the PR win that would be though. Hololive swooping in to help the maligned Nijisanji termination after being unfairly and falsely terminated.

She does have friends in Matara and Kuro, who have dealt with similar problems in Niji. Besides I've heard it might be 2 years for her to debut in holo.

>Besides I've heard it might be 2 years for her to debut in holo.

I think the original idea was this would be a quick turnaround "rescue mission" of sorts, bringing her in as a half-generation or something (presumably Kiara would be pushing to pick up Pomu Rainpuff in the same fashion, as she exited Niji under similar but less catastrophic circumstances).

However, with the outpouring of support for Dokibird, assuming those people actually hang on and weren't just subscribing out of Niji hate, I think she'll probably stay indie/VShojo at this point.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

>I think the original idea was this would be a quick turnaround "rescue
>mission" of sorts, bringing her in as a half-generation or something

Strictly as a hypothetical, since HoloEN officially claims they aren't "generations" anyway, there's nothing in the meta stopping them from adding new members to the existing groups. They kinda did that with IRyS and the "surviving" Councilors, although they did attach a new name in that instance. Lore-wise, that might make it tricky to justify adding anyone else to Promise, but depending on how they wrote the backstory, it would be pretty easy to "discover" new members for Myth or Advent. You gotta be creative in this business!

Just to be clear, I don't think they'll do this, I'm just saying I can see ways they could if they wanted to.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

This hypothetical rescue mission, ib my mind, would just be to scoop up recently graduated folks (and Doki) who have solid histories and also multiple references from existing members.

Doki, Pomu, the likely flood of NijiENs like Enna and Millie once they burn NijiEN down for the insurance money.

Call it HoloEN Rebirth or something. It's not like the EN side of Hololive isn't a giant collection of the worst kept secrets in vtubing as is, well before Vshojo got that title. (3 or 4/5 of Myth was known within a half dozen words in their debut, for crying out loud!)

>This hypothetical rescue mission, ib my mind, would just be to scoop
>up recently graduated folks (and Doki) who have solid histories and
>also multiple references from existing members.

Well, yeah, I suppose if they had four or five of them at once, it would make as much sense to just group them up as a new batch. I was thinking about a scenario in which there were only one or two, and a desire to avoid repeating that "orphan" effect they accidentally created with IRyS.

They could also do that sooner than with a full wave, which I would think would have to wait at least until sometime after Advent's first anniversary this summer. Although, speaking of which, I wonder if the actual next batch is already in the works? I wouldn't be surprised. It must take quite a while to get all the ducks* lined up for a new-unit launch.

I kind of worry about the "continuous growth" model they seem to be working under here. It risks the Enrico Fermi effect,** which is already starting to become evident on the JP side.

--G.
* No. No. Behave.

** "Young man, if I could remember the names of all these particles I'd have become a botanist."
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Niji just keeps adding more and more waves, they were doing like one every couple months at one point, so there's definitely a tipping point where it gets too much. Hololive's a bit more conservative, considering how much money they have, so they're much slower. They've averaged a wave per branch every year since each branch started, I believe (including ReGLOSS), staggered so that each wave has a good three to six months to stabilize before adding a new one - Myth aside, I think; ID wave 2 came pretty hot on their heels, as I recall, but I think that was less intentional and more accidental, considering the 'EN curse'.

I have no solid info on how Holostars fits into Hololive(And ReGLOSS)'s wave releases, but Stars is basically Yagoo's personal project, so who even knows if that's part of *any* plan.

Anyway, I assume there'll be another wave in all three branches 2024, with the next *probably* being ID in the next few months. I'm going to predict may at the latest.

So its been reported by falseEyeID that Doki now has a manager and they'll be getting sponsors to help fund projects. Sounds like she might be going indie...?

https://youtu.be/uq6VVCd1yrY?t=188 Link here

LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-24 AT 09:05 AM (EST)
 
Well, she'd need her own one of those as Indie or if she joins Vshojo. Those were always the two most likely outcomes from this. I'm pretty sure VShojo doesn't have 'company' managers, unless you hire one after you join (In which case, they're probably still just *your* manager rather than paid by VShojo).

Regardless, we know she's gonna go far with sponsors. GamerSupps is sure to be all over her, for one thing. And a lot of fan merch companies who have dropped Nijisanji (Of which there were I think at least three just in False's video there) are probably going to start asking about DokiMerch.

>HoloStars has a bunch, like
>her old TSB teammates, but I, at least, just....can't really sync with
>the Stars boys. It's a failing on my side, I know they're good at what
>they do, but I just....can't. I can't be alone in that. I really hope
>I'm not alone in that.

I think it'd help if there were, like, any interconnection between the branches. I don't think I've ever seen or even heard about a Hololive/Holostars collab. I've seen Ollie play Apex with a (non-Holo, I think) dude vtuber (and they were hilarious together), so it's apparently not that they're totally not allowed to work with boys ever, but... (shrug)

I get that it might be challenging to get the feng shui to work out in that kind of scenario, but, I mean, "give your lesser-known characters exposure by guest-starring them in your most popular characters' books" is Comics 101 and surely someone in HoloEN's management tier knows that. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-24 AT 01:34 AM (EST)
 
Hololive and Holostars, the ENs at least, used to do it a lot. Magni and Vesper would collab loads with the EN girls (Though mainly Kronii and Callie), and Regis and Kobo are basically brother and sister with how much they collab with each other. Blue Bros.

That said, aside from the one month or so ban on cross-wave collabs (The general consensus being that it's to let the wave stabilize as themselves with their fans so they don't get accused of...what's the term...clout-chasing?), internal collabs have always been on a personal basis in Cover - I believe Kiara has expressed on stream before that she just doesn't really want to collab with the boys for whatever reason. Meanwhile, Matsuri over in JP has not only collabed a bunch with guys, but one of her best vtuber friends is a *Nijisanji* guy - if you've ever seen him, he's the one who looks like Gojo from Dress Up Darling if he were a dad.)

But like I said above, Stars is basically Yagoo's pet project, so it's hard to say what Cover really thinks of all that. It's certainly not part of the plan, like with Nijisanji and their mixed waves. Holo is a lot more...idol-y than Niji is, with all that entails.

Towa almost got mobbed because of a male voice on her stream once, Rushia's whole debacle started with that discord message from MafuMafu (Though in hindsight that seems like a 'wow, we threw that grenade just in time' situation)...a set of Kronii's fans apparently hated her collabs with Vesper for some reason which I can't understand...You'd think that the EN side would be less terrible than the idol culture of JP. At least ID is sane. .....you know what I mean.

Kanauru Compilation

In happy news, she hit like 130k live viewers during her comeback. It was nice to hear her voice again.

She made a statement at the end of her stream - She learned when everyone else did that she was fired. Anycolor knew where she was, what she'd done, had all the medical records and things, and she'd been talking with her lawyer with her proof of ongoing problems, and her statement was looked over and approved by her lawyer.

Also? She made ZERO PROFIT last year, spending two hundred thousand dollars - a lot of that it would appear being paying for artists and such when Anycolor simply didn't, after taking months. It's entirely possible she never got paid back for those either - we don't know. But she worked her ASS off and made zero profit? with 200 grand?

In NijisanjiEN direct news, it seems like somebody got their ass fired in the last few days, because they're advertising a job opening for Canadian english director - Selen/Doki being Canadian, incidentally. I wonder if they're going to pull the 'This person does not work here any more, and as soon as we discovered their transgressions they were fired' ploy to get away from legal responsibility.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-24 AT 00:37 AM (EST)
 
>In NijisanjiEN direct news, it seems like somebody got their ass fired
>in the last few days, because they're
>advertising a job opening for Canadian english director - Selen/Doki being
>Canadian, incidentally. I wonder if they're going to pull the 'This
>person does not work here any more, and as soon as we discovered their
>transgressions they were fired' ploy to get away from legal
>responsibility.

Nah, that position opening's been up since mid December. Internally they've known they have problems for awhile.

>She made a statement at the end of her stream - She learned when
>everyone else did that she was fired. Anycolor knew where she was,
>what she'd done, had all the medical records and things, and she'd
>been talking with her lawyer with her proof of ongoing problems, and
>her statement was looked over and approved by her lawyer.

Which is leading to a lot of uncomfortable questions for Nijisanji, one involving the law (more about this in a moment) and fans pointing out two different tweets on her official account after she was supposedly terminated. It should probably come as no surprise that in the period between when they notified her of her termination and made the official announcement, they were still using her likeness and profiting off her popularity.

>Also? She made ZERO PROFIT last year, spending two hundred thousand
>dollars - a lot of that it would appear being paying for artists and
>such when Anycolor simply didn't, after taking months. It's entirely
>possible she never got paid back for those either - we don't know. But
>she worked her ASS off and made zero profit? with 200 grand?

What made the clip I saw of this revelation so hard to watch was she was saying it was her mother who pointed this out to her while she fought back some very bitter tears with laughter she obviously didn't feel.

>In NijisanjiEN direct news, it seems like somebody got their ass fired
>in the last few days, because they're
>advertising a job opening for Canadian english director - Selen/Doki being
>Canadian, incidentally. I wonder if they're going to pull the 'This
>person does not work here any more, and as soon as we discovered their
>transgressions they were fired' ploy to get away from legal
>responsibility.

As I mentioned up above, there's accusations that Anycolor may have violated Japanese labor laws with Selen/Doki's termination. Long and short of it is under said laws, Anycolor is required to give 30 day notice of pending termination and cannot terminate employees while they're on leave due to injury or illness. Given that Doki was in the hospital after her suicide attempt when they supposedly chose to terminate her and she says she only found out about the termination after it was officially announced, there's a good chance that she could take them to court for violating the law.

Oh, and to put the proverbial cherry on top of all this: Anycolor's official announcement of Selen's termination claimed that the damage she'd done to the company's reputation was "irreparable." Yet today they released a statement to investors that the damage to the company from terminating her contract would be "negligible." To give you an idea which way investors are leaning, since the termination announcement, Anycolor's stock in the Tokyo Stock Exchange has lost nearly 10% of its value or the equivalent of $152 million.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-24 AT 02:47 AM (EST)
 
>>Also? She made ZERO PROFIT last year, spending two hundred thousand
>>dollars - a lot of that it would appear being paying for artists and
>>such when Anycolor simply didn't, after taking months. It's entirely
>>possible she never got paid back for those either - we don't know. But
>>she worked her ASS off and made zero profit? with 200 grand?
>
>What made the clip I saw of this revelation so hard to watch was she was saying it was her
>mother who pointed this out to her while she fought back some very
>bitter tears with laughter she obviously didn't feel.
>

That one had to hurt more given that she hasn't had a great relationship with her parents.

>>In NijisanjiEN direct news, it seems like somebody got their ass fired
>>in the last few days, because they're
>>advertising a job opening for Canadian english director - Selen/Doki being
>>Canadian, incidentally. I wonder if they're going to pull the 'This
>>person does not work here any more, and as soon as we discovered their
>>transgressions they were fired' ploy to get away from legal
>>responsibility.
>
>As I mentioned up above, there's accusations that Anycolor may have
>violated Japanese labor laws with Selen/Doki's termination. Long and short of it is under
>said laws, Anycolor is required to give 30 day notice of pending
>termination and cannot terminate employees while they're on leave due
>to injury or illness. Given that Doki was in the hospital after her
>suicide attempt when they supposedly chose to terminate her and she
>says she only found out about the termination after it was officially
>announced, there's a good chance that she could take them to court for
>violating the law.
>

I'm not a labor law specialist but I wouldn't be shocked to see if there was a difference between employee rights and contractor rights that they would try to argue.

Thats an unfortunate possibility, yes. However, there's some clear, and documented, incompetence and theft of wages going on as well, considering she had to pay for art from her personal PayPal account, and has multiple artists and others coming forward to back that up.

That kind of thing is illegal whether you're contract or not, and using NDAs won't - or shouldn't at least - get in the way of legal proceedings in the case of criminal activities (like theft, harassment, impersonation, what could be construed as fraud...)

I don't know if she would want to sue at this point, considering it would drag her back through the mud she just climbed out of, but it certainly feels like she has plenty of grounds to do so.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

That's the neat part, she doesn't have to sue. She just has to give her evidence to the proper authorities. Suing is a civil matter. Much of whats happened is almost certainly *criminal*.

That would be nice to see justice happen. I was more thinking just the defamation and recouping the money she had to spend out-of-pocket to cover for them (not her own projects, the part where she had to pay artists for stuff Niji commissioned and then never paid for).

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

>That's the neat part, she doesn't have to sue. She just has to give
>her evidence to the proper authorities. Suing is a civil matter. Much
>of whats happened is almost certainly *criminal*.

Mm, see, the rub there is that the complainants in criminal matters generally have to testify in court, which means being cross-examined by counsel for the defense. This is often a worse experience than whatever happened in the first place.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

And now, for something a little more lighthearted (read r to l):

As a hooman, I am now contractually obligated to type in the chat,

she forgor

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.