>>(But seriously though, is that them?)
>
>They are legally distinct not-TSB.
>
>It's simply an Australian and a Korean-American who met rpr in Japan
>and went drinking and karaoke with him.

I assume they're people she played with before, all of whom are now pretending to be someone else for Tax Purposes? As with the Apex stream with the wives joke, I have zero context for any of this, but I enjoy how much fun they seem to be having in the vod. :)

--G.
-><-
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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

They're the ...alternate... accounts of certain orange and blue teammates she played with as Selen(plus RPR). Since they probably can't play with her as their current selves at the moment. Their current employer has reason to want to stay out of that mess, *officially*. But they've also never had a policy of "you can't maintain personal accounts". Most simply choose to stop their other activities for logistical reasons.

>They're the ...alternate... accounts of certain orange and blue
>teammates she played with as Selen(plus RPR). Since they probably
>can't play with her as their current selves at the moment. Their
>current employer has reason to want to stay out of that mess,
>*officially*. But they've also never had a policy of "you can't
>maintain personal accounts". Most simply choose to stop their other
>activities for logistical reasons.

Their particular employer has a contractual policy that you cannot have another VTuber identity after joining them, but keeping your personal account is fine if you do something else with it. Some people notably have turned it have into basically personal/real life accounts if you want to keep up with them.

(Notably, there is ONE specific person who has an exemption to that policy because she is a legacy merger in from another company and so is able to maintain her previous Vtuber identity, where she is still infrequently active.)

As for this specific collab...this company -also- doesn't have streaming rights to Helldivers 2, so it's another reason why they would choose to hang out with her under these identities.

Really? I wasn't aware said company had rules about that. Especially considering one of their alumnis.

Well, I was only really aware of the folks who actively left other companies (Where of course they couldn't keep their identities there) and those who have real life fleshtuber accounts...and those who simply seem to have no interest in returning to who they were before for various personal reasons. (One of the company's blue girls for example seems to want nothing to do with her past existence, and is honestly doing so much better than she was in every conceivable aspect)

Frustrated observation: All the "a person who exists working for a company that also exists" style references are a bit hard to follow when you're not already in on the joke.

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)

LAST EDITED ON Feb-29-24 AT 02:48 AM (EST)
 
Sorry, some people take the kayfabe a little too seriously, and it also just kinda feels more polite to be vague about some stuff.

I don't know which is which, but the two non-Doki/RPR people playing Helldivers II with them are Holostars Regis and FlayonAXEL, who were on Team Snake Bite with Selen last year during I believe the VSaikyo tournament. (HoloStars is the male vtuber side of Hololive)

>Sorry, some people take the kayfabe a little too seriously, and it
>also just kinda feels more polite to be vague about some stuff.
>
>I don't know which is which, but the two non-Doki/RPR people playing
>Helldivers II with them are Holostars Regis and Flayon, who were on
>Team Snake Bite with Selen last year during I believe the VSaikyo
>tournament. (HoloStars is the male vtuber side of Hololive)

Not Flayon.

Anyway, VTubing culture in general frowns upon talking about the performers behind the identities, especially for the big corpo ones, and will get attempts deleted in any of their official spaces. Some people also really buy in to that and take it seriously, so out of respect I also try not to speak -too- directly about it. Everything surrounding Nijisanji has sort of blown up and makes talking about their identities a little easier given all the terrible stories that are trickling out and with people wanting to move on, but that's not universal.

LAST EDITED ON Feb-29-24 AT 03:00 AM (EST)
 
Wait, right, who's the orange one...Flayon's the maroon one...AXEL! I'll fix that, thank you. God, I need to pay some attention to the boys...

EDIT TO ADD: Anyway, as one of the girls put it, it's okay if *other* people say it, *she* just can't say it. And saying it in chat or something won't get her in trouble, it'll just get you banned.

I think the closest thing there is outside of vtubing to this is deliberately deadnaming somebody, but that's...like fifteen levels of assholery away from telling people about past lives or real identities.

Especially with the girls who are the biggest open secrets in the industry, like Coco and Kson.

(Cover seems to collect these incredibly open secrets, for what it's worth; 4/5th of Myth was identified by the end of their first sentences on stream, and the fifth was mostly because she didn't talk a lot on her old streams. Part of Advent was ID'd before *before* the group debuted.)

>Part of Advent was ID'd before *before* the group debuted.

In fairness, it's not like there were a wide variety of "twin sisters working as a team" vtubers to choose from.

Interestingly though, during I think Kiara's interview, Fuwamoco mentioned they had applied separately to Hololive before, which would've been interesting (and a waste of their dynamic, imo).

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

Yeah, they applied to both Hololive EN and JP, and both separately and together, I recall them saying.

We live in the good timeline of that decision nexus. :3

See, I can understand that when the people behind the identities aren't really relevant, but it's when the secret decoder ring talk starts up that... well, keep in mind this is not about this forum *in particular*, just a general impression, but it makes things feel unwelcoming. (That may not be quite the right term, but I can't come up with a better one.)

Admittedly it probably bugs me a bit more than average because it feels like it's probably tied to aspects of how the companies work that I Really Do Not Like and I get twitchy.

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)

Well, remember that part of the reason a lot of people do vtubing is that they don't *want* to be just...*out there*. But also still want to be creating things. There's that layer of abstraction and protection involved.

Talking about past lives, real identities, it's brushing uncomfortably close to doxxing, to some people. And some folks have lost jobs and livelihoods to it. Look up the case of Mano Aloe for one example. Sometimes people take on new personas to escape harassment and getting identified like that can bring those past problems back. Or make them worse.

So here's a safety aspect to it all too, it's not just 'ooooo, the mystique' or 'muh immersion'.

I love that as soon as she got the chance, Doki went and got her somewhat agèd Live2D rig updated...

... so that she can be even more smug.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

On the other side of the coin, a fanartist provided us with a challenger.

Together, their smugness would drown the Earth!

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

Dokibird’s doing an auction/donation stream for Brain and Behavior Research Foundation today.

In half an hour, she’s already raised $40K. Good heavens. O_o

—- Philip

	Philip J. Moyer Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios "Insert Pithy Comment Here" Fandoms -- Fanart -- Fan Meta Discussions

A piece of paper went for $4,100! People are just jumping at the chance to throw money in her direction :3

>A piece of paper went for $4,100!

"It's a blank piece of paper, but it is notarized and it's legal size."

(Yes, I know the real one is A4, but still.)

--G.
also, as an aside, "dokimakura" is the greatest merch name in the history of merch
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>Dokibird’s doing an
>auction/donation stream for Brain and Behavior Research Foundation
>today.
>
>In half an hour, she’s already raised $40K. Good heavens. O_o

According to what Doki just tweeted, between the auction and straight donations, the final tally is more than a quarter-million:

"From all the dragoons, we have raised a total of

✨$252,524.92 ✨"

I'm not sure whether that's US or Canadian dollars, but either way, dang, girl.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Dokibird revealing the early animation progress on her new intro.

Spoiler: It's her 'old' intro just being redone with Doki, keeping the same music because it's public domain. :)

Oh heck yeah! She had one of the BEST intros in all of vtuberdom~

"Is this the lake, guys? Did we find the lake?"

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

New Doki PC

And a bonus package

Doki bringing back another old event

LAST EDITED ON May-25-24 AT 11:04 PM (EDT) by Gryphon (admin)
 
BAH GAWD, THAT'S MAID MINT'S MUSIC

Ah, Zod bless these dorks, it's like nothing changed.

>Ah, Zod bless these dorks, it's like nothing changed.

For added bonus punch to the "that's France, Mint" joke, "viva la revolución" is Spanish. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

I saw a comment;

“Girls are cuter when they’re dumber, and you two are VERY cute.”

So Doki and Mint are really happy to be back together.

Doki asks you a question

Doki's new outfit reveal is ongoing.

VERY much more detailed than before, though has a bit of a sharper feel to me.

>Doki's new outfit reveal is ongoing.
>
>VERY much more detailed than before, though has a bit of a sharper
>feel to me.

I feel like this goes beyond an outfit reveal; the new model looks like a different character altogether. About the only thing Bounty Hunter Doki has in common with Retro Doki, visually, is that they're both blonde (and not the same shade, even). :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>I feel like this goes beyond an outfit reveal; the new model looks
>like a different character altogether. About the only thing Bounty
>Hunter Doki has in common with Retro Doki, visually, is that they're
>both blonde (and not the same shade, even). :)

Honestly, it looks less like Dokibird and more like Selen with a dye job. As though her lawyer gave her the green light to just raid her old NijiEN locker.

Well, it is a little bit of a rebrand. She did say her old model just got a brush up for tech reasons for usability back when she came back.

Considering all of her everything else is still her old look, either this will just be an outfit, like Mousey's dozens of models, or she'll be slowly revamping everything to match cowboy doki.

>Well, it is a little bit of a rebrand. She did say her old model just
>got a brush up for tech reasons for usability back when she came back.

And honestly, now that I look closer, it's sort of like a merger of the two. It's like Selen, but with feathery (in the literal sense) hair and cowboy theme. I think what sort of biased my first impression was the skin fang that wasn't on the old model.

And it's not only amazing what you can make when your money's not going to pay for some techbro's yacht, but also a reminder of just how many friends Doki really has despite everything she's been through.

Mint reacts to new fan nickname for Doki's new outfit

A clip from a few weeks ago. Sometimes there are risks when you cannot or do not want to tell someone exactly what you do for work.

Seems like Dokibird has been having some issues.

I don't really know what to say other than "boggling vacantly at these shenanigans".

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)

What the *HELL*?

So, the first thing here, is that clearly people don't know how Tiltify works if they're accusing her of pocketing anything. Tiltify SPECIFICALLY is set up so that the people running the charity drive NEVER touch the money. They LITERALLY CAN'T.

If it's for a charity and not personal, the money goes from the donator to tiltify and then to the charity once the payment is processed. The only access the streamer etc has to the money is to know how much was sent for totals/running tallies, who donated how much, etc.

Now, I don't know exactly how Doki did her auction, but Tiltify supports them, so I can only imagine that's how she did it.

It's the part about having to retake control of her brand that really had me going "WTF are people doing?"

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)

That makes me wonder about her manager Mr Man now. Hm. She hired him in February....in July she was having The Issues with her 'previous management team'...

Now, she could mean the one she had before her return. Or she could have replaced Mr Man et al at some point without saying anything. With no talking about it and the mention of police, that suggests some extreme Shut Up Because Legal Things IF that's the case.

Well, this is just a couple of possibilities I'm speculating on. We won't know until and unless somebody says something.

LAST EDITED ON May-14-25 AT 04:42 PM (EDT)
 
I remember her saying a while ago that in the course of setting up her company, she'd brought in a director who then turned around and screwed a whole bunch of people, including Doki herself. It appears from the google doc linked upthread that part of said screwing involved pulling some kind of Corporate Stunt to put the IP in his/her own name. Clawing it back is the legal action she's talking about in the document above, and evidently this charity flap is part of the still-ongoing fallout from All That.

Just from the terminology, I think that would have been at a level above Mr. Man et al in the company structure, but as far as I know she's never been more specific than the statements we already have.

Either way, you know you're having a rough year when being so fantastically dicked over by your previous agency that you try to delete yourself isn't the most stressful thing that happened to you that year. :/

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

If anyone asks "Why would they go corporate and not stay indie? You can hire your own managers" point to Dokibird, and that guy I mentioned in that other thread. That poor girl and the people who prey on people like her. *That* is why. At least with an agency you can go back to indie or try a different agency (At least two Holo girls are refugees from elsewhere, and we all know about vshojo), but if a shitdick fucks you over as an indie, you're superfucked and have to just start all over from effectively scratch. Except probably in debt with people mad at you for all the problems the shitdick caused mid-fuck-over.

LAST EDITED ON May-14-25 AT 08:52 PM (EDT)
 
Just checked Reddit as well and there's something going on about Doki having to relocate with police supervision as well because her parents literally tried to clamp down and assume full control of her brand.

Which is partially understandable when you understand how close she's come to self deleting multiple times because of the insane amount of stress and hate she gets, but not to the point that it's EXCUSEABLE.

edit: and then there are people like this https://www.reddit.com/r/dokibird/comments/1kmtktj/how_can_people_be_so_evil/

LAST EDITED ON May-14-25 AT 08:58 PM (EDT)
 
>Just checked Reddit as well and there's something going on about Doki
>having to relocate with police supervision as well because her parents
>literally tried to clamp down and assume full control of her brand.

I saw the thing about the police, but I didn't know it was vs. her parents. I assumed it was some kind of toxic roommate or failed relationship situation, the details of which would naturally be Not My Business.

>Which is partially understandable when you understand how close she's
>come to self deleting multiple times because of the insane amount of
>stress and hate she gets, but not to the point that it's EXCUSEABLE.

Making it about the brand gives the impression that it's more about profit than offspring preservation, as well, which may not be the actual state of affairs, but things feel like they feel, y'know?

>edit: and then there are people like this
>https://www.reddit.com/r/dokibird/comments/1kmtktj/how_can_people_be_so_evil/

Whatever this was, it's already been deleted by the mods.

Man, what a time to be Doki. All this and an injured pet to look after too (her dachshund hurt his back, which is a thing dachshunds are unfortunately prone to do, and had to have surgery).

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>Making it about the brand gives the impression that it's more about
>profit than offspring preservation, as well, which may not be the
>actual state of affairs, but things feel like they feel, y'know?

I don't even know. No matter who it is or how I look at it, it feels kinda like a "and what do you do now that you've -caught- the car?" sort of situation - the brand is of limited utility without the talent. I suppose the concept of using the brand as leverage does come to mind, which... could potentially have an offspring preservation motive somehow, but it really takes the cake for awful ideas even then.

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)

LAST EDITED ON May-15-25 AT 05:33 AM (EDT)
 
>>edit: and then there are people like
>> this
>>https://www.reddit.com/r/dokibird/comments/1kmtktj/how_can_people_be_so_evil/
>
>Whatever this was, it's already
> been deleted by the mods.

Context from replies suggests it was something wildly and weirdly antisemitic the weird part coming in because she's Asian. What?

>>Just checked Reddit as well and there's something going on about Doki
>>having to relocate with police supervision as well because her parents
>>literally tried to clamp down and assume full control of her brand.
>
>I saw the thing about the police, but I didn't know it was vs. her
>parents. I assumed it was some kind of toxic roommate or failed
>relationship situation, the details of which would naturally be Not My
>Business.

From a post on Reddit she talked about it on her Feb 26 member stream, at about 27 minutes in.

The top level of the thread goes into a lot of detail about the issue, including the deeply unpleasant Kat'n'Chat, who is more of a drama vtuber than anything else, and Rima Evenstar goes into a lot of detail to debunk everything Kat said.

--
Jen Dantes - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lady of Sith Tech Support.
"This may not be a good idea, but it's the only one I have."

LAST EDITED ON May-15-25 AT 11:44 AM (EDT)
 
Basically nazis saying it's 'morally right' to hate Dokibird and laughing when she got told to self-delete in chat and it made her cry.

Because people have gotten far too used to saying anything they want on the internet and not being punched in the mouth for it.

I think most times when I've seen that "better to stay indie" sort of advice it's targeted at people who are still too small to -need- a manager.

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)

You're never too small to need a manager, don't let anybody tell you otherwise. It's just good business sense to have somebody to handle the paperwork, negotiate prices, go out and sell your work to sponsors, etc. Not having a manager is how a lot of people *stay* small.

Ennnnnhhhh... Surely one should at least be making enough money from streaming to pay a manager before getting a manager?

(And now that I'm thinking about it I'm not sure I've ever seen a pure retrogaming and/or randomizer streamer who had any sponsors.)

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)

Super Meche? Amiya Aranha? They're just ones I follow off the top of my head. Also, she does more modern stuff too but This non-Hololive Ririka may count.

....not actually sure if they have *sponsors* though, thinking of it....

The smallest one I've seen with any kind of sponsorship is Aurelia Tempris, and that's just a GamerSupps promo code (not personally vouching for GamerSupps, just saying that's what she's got).

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

Never heard of them, so I don't know.

I just can't remember any of the "basically just plays Super Metroid every day" type streamers I've watched (vtuber or not) ever having any kind of sponsored-looking anything.

(Not counting when they're part of a GDQ event. But that's GDQ having advertisers, not them.)

-IA.

(received information not interpretable)

>Ennnnnhhhh... Surely one should at least be making enough money from
>streaming to pay a manager before getting a manager?
>

There's some truth to what Shondo said awhile ago and caught shit for--that indie Vtubers who have a 'manager' (read: personal assistant, not talent manager) are often getting assisted by their boyfriend.