I just watched the actual show for the first time (Alone and in one sitting. I'll never do that again)

Anyway, now I get a lot more of the in-jokes. However, what is the purpose of the ending of NGE? I don't get it. At. All. Could somebody please enlighten me?

>However, what is the purpose of the ending of NGE?

Mainly it's to tell the fans of the show to fuck off.

No, seriously.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>>However, what is the purpose of the ending of NGE?
>
>Mainly it's to tell the fans of the show to fuck off.
>
>No, seriously.
>
Phantom and I both agreed that the ending of NGE was along the same line as the ending of the movie Neverending Story, but I've since come to believe that the similarity was a fluke. It works as an explanation, but I doubt it was Anno's intent now that I've seen D&R and EoE...

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
    -- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>

>>However, what is the purpose of the ending of NGE?
>
>Mainly it's to tell the fans of the show to fuck off.
>
>No, seriously.

Well, it depends.

The ending of the TV series is meant to be a remaking of a transcript of one of Anno's therapy sessions.

The movies are to tell the fans of the show to fuck off. Or alternately:

"You people asked for a 'real ending'... well, HOW DO YOU LIKE WHAT YOU GOT, FUCKERS?!"

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"I find your lack of clue disturbing."

A friend of mine tried to explain this one to me.

The way he explained it was that Shinji was given the ultimate choice to decide humanities fate. He could choose to uplift humanity to a higher plane of existence, destroy humanity, or leave it the way it is. How he (My friend not Shinji) came upon this assumption is beyond me. Although with the way he explained the underlying story/plot of NGE it made a great deal of sense.

I, on the other hand, agree with Gryphon and Mephron.

But now that we're on the subject... Does that assumption hold any credibility?

I know what you mean about the ending. I think it just boils down to everyone trying to make sens out of somethign that doesn't really make sense. Basically I agree with everyone else in some sense. It's meant to fuck with our heads. The movie is the same way, except it's in response to the real ending like someone said earlier. Oh well, at least it gives you somethign to think about right? Anyone feel free to tear me apart here because I'm kind of talking out of my ass here. It's too late.

-Courtesy of your friendly neighborhood Loser-Man

<This post contains a dangerously high quantity of spoilerific goodness, you have been warned>

>I just watched the actual show for the first time (Alone and in one
>sitting. I'll never do that again)
>

That was unwise. I only consumed the second half in one sitting, and I had what amounted to a sherpa to guide me through some of the 'Who the/what the/where the/what the hell happened to that guy's head?' moments. I hope your recovery is quick and without complications;)

>Anyway, now I get a lot more of the in-jokes. However, what is the
>purpose of the ending of NGE? I don't get it. At. All. Could somebody
>please enlighten me?

Shinji Ikari is the lynchpin<sp?> of the apocalypse. It seems, from what I've put together and what I've gathered talking with some of my Eva nut friends, that the earlier post about Shinji's choice is in the same realm as the typical explaination of the actual events. Let me explain... no no, it'll take too long, let me sum up:

The world is gonna end. There is no way to stop this, not since the Second Impact at any rate. The entire purpose of SEELE and NERV is to guide the process as much as possible. Eva-01 is key to this process, that's why Gendo is twitchy about protecting it. Rei is also key to this process, that is why (well one reason) Gendo is twitchy about her (although to a lesser extent, since for most of the series he's got spares). The goal is to fight off the angels, then run the apocalypse according to SEELE's script. The point is to join all the souls of humanity into some sort of uber-mind entity, as opposed to all of them simply being wiped out entirely by a Third Impact. At the end of the TV series, Shinji ends up choosing to allow this process to finish (in End of Eva, he sort of cops out of that by dividing humanity into those who want to stay with the uber-mind and those who want to be human again. Though the ending of the movie could also indicate a sort of 'Adam and Eve' recreation of humanity, since the only people we see are him and Asuka, but I digress).

This is as near to a summary of events as I can parse. The meaning of it all, however, is unintelligable, though 'fuck off' might not be far off (although, it should be noted, Gainax was severely over budget by the last two episodes of the TV show, and so a great many corners were cut, not that it was likely to be much more understandable anyway, but it would have at least been prettier). The therapy session transcript is also true as far as I know, though I'm fairly certain the events at the end were planned ahead of time, and the transcript merely used to flavor it all with more 'let's liquify people's brains!'

	-={(Astynax)}=- "Erg, up entirely too late, and thinking of Eva: subtract 2d6 SAN"

Thank you, all of you, for the swift replies. At least now I know what I'll be in for when I get End of Evangelion

>At least now I know what I'll be in for when I get End of Evangelion

No, you don't.

Even when you finish watching it, you don't know what you were in for.

-- Bob, who once watched EoE and the Utena movie on the same night, and has since recovered
-------------------
Lo, I am become Susan, destroyer of worlds.

>>At least now I know what I'll be in for when I get End of Evangelion
>No, you don't.

Seconded.

I want those two hours of my life and that chunk of my soul back, dammit.

Slarti
So cold... so very cold...

>-- Bob, who once watched EoE and the Utena movie on the same night,
>and has since recovered

Oh dear. I hope the psychiatric care wasn't too expensive.

Regards,
Jeanne

http://www.jhedge.com
Comics/Anime Forum: http://go.compuserve.com/Comic

>>-- Bob, who once watched EoE and the Utena movie on the same night,
>>and has since recovered
>
>Oh dear. I hope the psychiatric care wasn't too expensive.
>
Well, the Japanese food in between helped mitigate it, but I'm still to traumatized by it to actually talk to my therapist about it... :)

Offsides (who was there for this littel adventure and (IIRC) didn't say anything to try and stop it...)

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
    -- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>

>Offsides (who was there for this littel adventure and (IIRC) didn't
>say anything to try and stop it...)

Hell, you thought it was a good idea. <grin>

-- Bob
-------------------
Lo, I am become Susan, destroyer of worlds.

>>-- Bob, who once watched EoE and the Utena movie on the same night,
>>and has since recovered
>
>Oh dear. I hope the psychiatric care wasn't too expensive.

I really don't see why people are so traumatized by Adolescence Mokushiroku. It's so damn goofy I found it entirely impossible to take seriously enough to damage me. I actually watched it again after finishing the TV series just to take the edge off a little. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>I really don't see why people are so traumatized by Adolescence
>Mokushiroku. It's so damn goofy I found it entirely
>impossible to take seriously enough to damage me. I actually watched
>it again after finishing the TV series just to take the edge
>off a little. :)

Magic Kindom Crossing!

Anyway, I've found myself unable to develope the same investment in the Utena characters as I've got in the Eva ones, so SKU has found itself relegated to the same 'uninteresting, but other people like it' slot of my mental storage as Serial Experiments Lain.

That's right.

I don't like Lain.

All present please feel free to gasp in horror and throw scones.

Blessed be.
-n
(well, the girl herself is just so cute you can't help but want to give her a hug, but the series wavers between irritating, creepy, and just plain dull)

>That's right.
>
>I don't like Lain.
>
>All present please feel free to gasp in horror and throw scones.

I heard that Lain is even more twisted than eva... is it true?

>>That's right.
>>
>>I don't like Lain.
>>
>>All present please feel free to gasp in horror and throw scones.
>
>I heard that Lain is even more twisted than eva... is it true?

I wouldn't say more twisted, just has that same "we've sailed completely off the edge and want to keep going" feeling.

And Nathan, I'm glad I finally found someone else who doesn't think Lain was the best thing ever.

And as far as EoE goes, if you can watch it on DVD, flip it to the last audio track; it's Amanda Winn-Lee (sp?), who wrote the English script, and two others involved with the dub talking about the movie, and it's hilarious.

quote(from when Misato pushes the SEELE trooper up against the wall and blasts him): "I had to get the grossest *splat* sound I could there, just for that extra special something."

Fireball - It's what's for dinner!

>I heard that Lain is even more twisted than eva... is it true?

Depends on your point of view. It is certainly odd -- the way we usually describe it to people is "creepy cool shoujo cyberpunk". Unlike Eva, it's not intended to mess with your head maliciously. Rather, its head-messing is actually semi-constructive.

-- Bob
-------------------
Lo, I am become Susan, destroyer of worlds.

>>I heard that Lain is even more twisted than eva... is it true?
>
>Depends on your point of view. It is certainly odd -- the way we
>usually describe it to people is "creepy cool shoujo cyberpunk".
>Unlike Eva, it's not intended to mess with your head
>maliciously. Rather, its head-messing is actually
>semi-constructive.

O.o thats hard to believe... What is Lain about?

>O.o thats hard to believe... What is Lain about?

<morpheus>
unfortunately, no one cant be told what lain is.
</morpheus>

>>O.o thats hard to believe... What is Lain about?
>
><morpheus>
>unfortunately, no one cant be told what lain is.
></morpheus>

heh heh heh. I guess it worth it to hunt down the series. :)

>>>O.o thats hard to believe... What is Lain about?
>>
>><morpheus>
>>unfortunately, no one cant be told what lain is.
>></morpheus>
>
>heh heh heh. I guess it worth it to hunt down the series. :)

IMHO, Serial Experiments Lain is worth it. But I also tend to enjoy the anime that screw with my head :)

>>>O.o thats hard to believe... What is Lain about?
>>
>><morpheus>
>>unfortunately, no one cant be told what lain is.
>></morpheus>
>
>heh heh heh. I guess it worth it to hunt down the series. :)

No, it isn't.

--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
Proud Member of the "Lain was a waste of celluloid" Club.

>O.o thats hard to believe... What is Lain about?

Making your own God from computer parts.

you'll see what I mean.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"I find your lack of clue disturbing."

>>-- Bob, who once watched EoE and the Utena movie on the same night,
>>and has since recovered
>Oh dear. I hope the psychiatric care wasn't too expensive.

<chuckle> I just watched all of Steel Angel Kurumi in one sitting. Perfect antidote.

-- Bob (who just suddenly had the very silly image of the Evas dispatched to face the 18th Angel, Kurumi...)
-------------------
Lo, I am become Susan, destroyer of worlds.

LAST EDITED ON 10-06-03 AT 08:31 AM (EDT)
 
"Erg, up entirely too late, and thinking of Eva: subtract 2d6
>SAN"

minus 5d6 SANITY for ACTUALLY sitting through the whole thing.
In. One. Sitting. :)

Congratulations you now have an insanity. :)

I think I agree mostly with Astynax's story synopsis.

But EOE's higher purpose was only to tell the nice, irritating but paying fans to get the hell away from Anno.

Edit: Because the original signature came outlooking like crap.

Good God! Am I the only one here who LIKED EoE?! And thought it made sense?

Well I like the series overall, including EoE, but for me, it's just a little too dark. I know everything in life doesn't have a happy ending, and that's not what I'm asking for. I just like things to be a little more upbeat. Oh well. C'est la vie. It's a good story in any case.

Heh... Want a better ending to NGE? Go read Eva-R. Muuuuuch better...

-NeoRaven

>Well I like the series overall, including EoE, but for me, it's just a
>little too dark. I know everything in life doesn't have a happy
>ending, and that's not what I'm asking for. I just like things to be a
>little more upbeat. Oh well. C'est la vie. It's a good story in any
>case.

no dont get me wrong. I liked EoE and have spent many
memorable hours debating/thinking with friends
who have seen it, trying to figure out EoE.

And no we still have not figured it out... except for the fact which
the majority of fans agree on. Anno must be sending a message.
what message? we don't know except for 'get lost..'

Personally, I think the message Anno was trying to convey was 'I've got really good drugs and you don't, so there!'

>Personally, I think the message Anno was trying to convey was 'I've
>got really good drugs and you don't, so there!'

Didn't the guy doing Dragon Half get jail time for that?

-NeoRaven

>>Personally, I think the message Anno was trying to convey was 'I've
>>got really good drugs and you don't, so there!'
>
>Didn't the guy doing Dragon Half get jail time for that?
>
>-NeoRaven

haha.. really? but dragon-half is so funny!!!

>>>Personally, I think the message Anno was trying to convey was 'I've
>>>got really good drugs and you don't, so there!'
>>
>>Didn't the guy doing Dragon Half get jail time for that?
>>
>>-NeoRaven
>
>haha.. really? but dragon-half is so funny!!!

Aren't acid trips always fun? ;-)

-NeoRaven

>Didn't the guy doing Dragon Half get jail time for that?

I think that was the guy who did "Bastard!"

-- Bob
-------------------
Lo, I am become Susan, destroyer of worlds.

>>Didn't the guy doing Dragon Half get jail time for that?

Dudes - you are like so off topic -- new thread eh?

t.
killjoy du jour

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"These guys are as obvious as a weasel on acid." - Corwin Ravenhair

>>>Didn't the guy doing Dragon Half get jail time for that?
>
>Dudes - you are like so off topic -- new thread eh?
>
>t.
>killjoy du jour

but it IS on topic!! dragon half represents.....
the...

guys shes right... this is off topic.... new thread to
discuss drug-taking anime producers?

Some of this may have been repeated in other posts, but this is my Grand Unified Theory of Evangelion.

SEELE think humanity is rubbish because we are all separate and incomplete, kept apart by our individual AT Fields. They want to smoosh everyone together into one big superbeing in Third Impact, then we'll all be complete and 'happy'. This is the Human Complementation Project (the smooshed-together souls will fill in each others' empty spaces by complementing each other, hence the name, I reckon).

Gendo, as far as I can tell, used to work entirely for SEELE and agreed with their goals. He recruited Yui for them. However, the way I see it, he loved Yui enough that when she deliberately got herself sucked into Unit-01 (he may have been under the misapprehension that it was an accident, like pretty much everyone else) he changed his goals. He wanted to be back together with her at any cost, so he planned to take control of Third Impact (see below).

Angels come from Adam (the Giant of Light seen in Antarctica that caused Second Impact/the embryo that Kaji brought to Gendo and which was embedded in Gendo's palm); humans (Lilim) come from Lilith (the crucified giant in Terminal Dogma). The relationship between Adam and Lilith is never clearly defined; my favourite theory is that they are two split-off halves of a single Godlike being.

SEELE's plan to initiate Third Impact involved using Unit-01 (a clone of Lilith) as the focus, along with the Eva Production Series (clones of Adam) and their Lance of Longinus copies. Exactly what the Lance is is never explained; my prevailing theory is that it's a fragment of the original God-being and thus contains Adam-stuff and Lilith-stuff. Both Adam- and Lilith-material seems to be needed to cause Third Impact, at least of the constructive kind. Gendo planned to use Rei (a clone of Yui containing Lilith's soul, or at least a soul derived from Lilith) as a vessel for him to combine with Adam and Lilith and take control of Third Impact (one assumes the power of the originals is greater than that of the clone substitutes). The exact mechanics of all this are unclear and not really important. The important thing is that whoever was in control of Third Impact would determine the fate of humanity, by hoovering up everyone's souls then deciding what to do with them.

Now, what ended up happening was as follows. Shinji, as pilot of Unit-01, was at the centre of Third Impact and had control of it when SEELE captured the Unit and formed the Tree of Life pattern, did their chant, etc. I reckon all the stuff with ego barrier collapse and destrado (the opposite of libido) appearing was to do with him breaking down and giving in to the impulse to smoosh everyone together and end the pain and trauma he was in. Rei, meanwhile, told Gendo where to shove it and combined Adam and Lilith by herself, becoming a superbeing (the pre-Adam/Lilith 'God' of my theory) and grabbing control of Third Impact from SEELE. She took in everyone's souls, then gave Shinji the choice of what would happen next. Whether she pushed or guided him into his decision or left it entirely up to him (simply removing the pain and trauma and letting him preview the possible outcomes) is debatable; in any case, after taking a look at the world with no people and the world of everyone smooshed together, he declared them both to be running away/ungood and decided to return to the usual state of things. He had a short conversation with Yui as Unit-01 departed for the stars (I can't recall offhand whether she clearly influenced his decision or not; I don't *think* she did). This can be seen as him letting her go and finally getting over his maternal issues if you want to view NGE from that kind of psychoanalytic, Freudian perspective. Personally, I prefer the more universal themes of the series; Shinji accepted life as we know it, with all the heartbreak that comes with people being separate, incomplete individuals, because the alternatives were not truly life. The Rei-Goddess collapses, its energy spent, and the souls of humanity (the red blobs) return to earth. Don't ask me about the crosses going off into space; I haven't figured that one out yet. :D

In the final scene, Shinji wakes up next to Asuka, both of them apparently having mustered the will to return to life. Yui says earlier that anyone can return to life; it can be speculated that other people may return from the sea of LCL eventually. Gainax-approved material states that Shinji does not strangle Asuka out of murderous intent or anything; he just does it to affirm that he is back in the 'real world', and stops when she responds. Her final line is often (I think) mistranslated as "How disgusting", when the more literal "I feel sick" conveys a less pessimistic tone. Wouldn't *you* feel a bit sick in that landscape? :D

So, Third Impact occurred, but Shinji and Rei thwarted SEELE's plan to smoosh everyone into a superbeing at the cost of their individuality. And a good thing too; I view SEELE as a bunch of sad, pathetic individuals who can't stand dealing with life, so they try to create a 'heaven' where they and everyone else will be 'happy' but have no identity or purpose; no real existence at all.

The TV series ending can be viewed differently (with Shinji choosing to join the group-mind), but I tend to think of it as simply some of the stuff that was going on in people's heads during the Third Impact portion of the movie, with Shinji's realisations and happy declaration at the end showing his rejection of the nihilism of SEELE's vision and willingness to live in the real world.

*gasps for breath* That's my view of NGE, or to put it another way, Why I Think Evangelion Has A Happy Ending. :D