LAST EDITED ON 09-26-04 AT 08:46 PM (EDT)
 
Call me a petulant, foot-stomping attention-seeker, but when I look at my web forum and I see that Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow is generating more buzz than my own most recent releases, I can't help but feel as though I must not be doing my job very well.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

Had you not noticed that even in that totally unrelated thread, the conversants were inevitably pulled back towards the subjects and sources so recently Done Right By here? If your latest work is not seen to be so radiantly praised, then it seems from here to be caused by its incredible attraction. Not even light conversation can escape.

Astronomically metaphorical,
Mike Thedford
Ex-Dictator
Homemaker in Captivity

>Had you not noticed that even in that totally unrelated thread, the
>conversants were inevitably pulled back towards the subjects and
>sources so recently Done Right By here?

Not having seen the movie and all...

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>>Had you not noticed that even in that totally unrelated thread, the
>>conversants were inevitably pulled back towards the subjects and
>>sources so recently Done Right By here?
>
>Not having seen the movie and all...

Do - from what I've seen of your tastes, I think you'd get a tremendous kick out of it.

Blessed be.
-n

>Call me a petulant, foot-stomping attention-seeker, but when I look at
>my web forum and I see that Sky Captain and the World of
>Tomorrow is generating more buzz than my own most recent releases,
>I can't help but feel as though I must not be doing my job very well.
>

I must submit that this is an illusory feeling. Titans: Welcome Home spawned 1 direct thread with 43 comments, and 2 art pieces with 23 comments between them. A Dream of Darkness has thus far spawned 2 direct comment threads with 24 comments between them. That brings the total for your recent works (and we're not counting A Certain Obligation since that was more editorial, though that could add another thread and 45 comments) to 5 thread and 90 comments. Sky Captain is one thread, with 27 comments.

In summary, settle down, you're doing just fine, and we're all grateful for it.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "Darkness beyond Twilight"

LAST EDITED ON 09-27-04 AT 00:06 AM (EDT)
 
>I must submit that this is an illusory feeling. Titans: Welcome
>Home spawned 1 direct thread with 43 comments, and 2 art pieces
>with 23 comments between them. A Dream of Darkness has thus far
>spawned 2 direct comment threads with 24 comments between them. That
>brings the total for your recent works (and we're not counting A
>Certain Obligation since that was more editorial, though that
>could add another thread and 45 comments) to 5 thread and 90 comments.

I wasn't counting Welcome Home, just looking at the most recent two, Starting Over and Blood Ties #1. (And if you really want to be mathematical about it, you have to take back six of the comments on that, since they were actually my responses to questions. I don't count my own answers as "buzz". :)

I can understand the appeal of Starting Over being pretty narrow, but the slack response to Blood Ties #1 has me a bit surprised, given that there was (I thought) some pretty heavy stuff in it. I dunno. Maybe it's just because it's the first of three parts and I said as much when I released it. It just seems like it came out and most of the board kinda went, "Huh? ... So anyway, how about Sky Captain!"

(shrug)

I guess I'm just getting paranoid in my old age. I find myself more often looking at what I'm working on and thinking, "And this is accomplishing what, precisely?" It's probably just an equinoctial funk. I'm sure I'll get... much worse, actually, now that we're plunging down the slippery slope into winter. (For crissakes, the local cellphone shop's "days until next major holiday" window counter has already been set to Christmas mode. But that's another rant altogether, and I'd rather not get into it here - it's too early even to be complaining about early Christmas things. :)

I am chuffed about the Titans fan art, though. I may need to set up a Titans subpage in the Bacon Comics subdirectory sometime soon, so that there's someplace more permanent to display them. My general policy is not to give something a subpage unless there are at least three pieces (which is why CSI: New Avalon and Titans don't have them at the moment), but, hey, my rules, I can break them if I feel like it. I just have to come up with a decent title graphic. (Dave saved me the trouble in Raven's case. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>I can understand the appeal of Starting Over being pretty
>narrow, but the slack response to Blood Ties #1 has me a bit
>surprised, given that there was (I thought) some pretty heavy stuff in
>it. I dunno. Maybe it's just because it's the first of three parts
>and I said as much when I released it. It just seems like it came out
>and most of the board kinda went, "Huh? ... So anyway, how about
>Sky Captain!"
>

Well, I think you've nailed it as far as Blood Ties goes... waiting for the rest of the story arc for a full on reaction. Well, that and, for myself anyway, my reaction would be limited to simple fanboyism... and I feel like a goober just posting "wow, really neat ideas, more please." Probably ought to more often, everyone likes encouragement, but ah well.

>
>I guess I'm just getting paranoid in my old age. I find myself more
>often looking at what I'm working on and thinking, "And this is
>accomplishing what, precisely?" It's probably just an equinoctial
>funk. I'm sure I'll get... much worse, actually, now that we're
>plunging down the slippery slope into winter. (For crissakes, the
>local cellphone shop's "days until next major holiday" window counter
>has already been set to Christmas mode. But that's another rant
>altogether, and I'd rather not get into it here - it's too early even
>to be complaining about early Christmas things. :)
>

I've found that the "what am I accomplishing" train of thought leads nowhere good, and does so very quickly. In answer to it, though, from my perspective your work accomplishes something very worthwhile, it helps me make it through my days at the Hell Desk. For reasons I'll never understand about myself, I can switch from one window to another on a PC without skipping a beat, but switching from paper to a PC window is like rebooting... it just throws me. So, having gobs of generally high quality and always entertaining fiction available in electronic form is a boon to my sanity, and I thank you for it (as would my coworkers, if they ever understood the danger they're in if I should lose my sanity, hehe.)

	-={(Astynax)}=- "Darkness beyond Twilight"

>>I can understand the appeal of Starting Over being pretty
>>narrow, but the slack response to Blood Ties #1 has me a bit
>>surprised, given that there was (I thought) some pretty heavy stuff in
>>it. I dunno. Maybe it's just because it's the first of three parts
>>and I said as much when I released it. It just seems like it came out
>>and most of the board kinda went, "Huh? ... So anyway, how about
>>Sky Captain!"
>>
>
>Well, I think you've nailed it as far as Blood Ties goes...
>waiting for the rest of the story arc for a full on reaction. Well,
>that and, for myself anyway, my reaction would be limited to simple
>fanboyism... and I feel like a goober just posting "wow, really neat
>ideas, more please." Probably ought to more often, everyone likes
>encouragement, but ah well.

What he said.

Well, that, and I'm fairly sure I wouldn't be able to obey Rule 1 if I fanboy'd about Blood Ties. Call me Mr. No Self Control.

Shalon Wood

LAST EDITED ON 09-27-04 AT 01:10 PM (EDT)
 
>I can understand the appeal of Starting Over being pretty
>narrow, but the slack response to Blood Ties #1 has me a bit
>surprised, given that there was (I thought) some pretty heavy stuff in
>it. I dunno. Maybe it's just because it's the first of three parts
>and I said as much when I released it. It just seems like it came out
>and most of the board kinda went, "Huh? ... So anyway, how about
>Sky Captain!"

Having read them all and liked them all, I think the easiest thing to say is, well, on a Friday it's easier to post on something low brain (like a movie) then something high concept (like Raven as Rose Bride). Plus I'm trying to quietly think of a way of saying "I knew Akio was her father!" without sounding like a putz. I need to re-read your stuff about 2-3 more times before I can intelligently post. At least that's my excuse.

>I guess I'm just getting paranoid in my old age. I find myself more
>often looking at what I'm working on and thinking, "And this is
>accomplishing what, precisely?" It's probably just an equinoctial
>funk. I'm sure I'll get... much worse, actually, now that we're
>plunging down the slippery slope into winter.

Um, if you like, we could set up a Greek Chorus to praise you. Would that help?

Ok, probably not. If it makes you feel any better, I spent my Friday evening in a bookstore, wandered around and thought "UF source material, NXE source material, I like Gryphon's version better, damn it why can't people write character and dialog these days?". Or perhaps you would be pleased to know that I can't play Halo without imaging the Master Chief as a Salusian? Or wonder just how Cortana is dealing with the AIs of her world 300 years on? Or what happened when the Chief met Tuncer? I know that if I saw an elite I'd probably blast him (or run like hell)...

Hmm, did you realize that the body of UF material alone is over 120 stories? My god, can anyone else on the Internet - or in print literature - boast that many Novellas and Novels? Admittedly it's all collaborative and quality varies, but I can't think of a single series that's spawned over 120 books. Not even DragonLance :)

And frankly, you're part of one of the most copied fanfic groups on the internet. How many times has a DJ Croftesque character showed up in other universes? Way, way too many in the EVA fic I've read lately. What about the Norns as goddesses in crossover universes? Yup, seen them too. Maybe those are tips of the hat to you, but I've only seen two other anime fanfic authors get that kinda love since 2000, and neither has continued writing.

I admit, I haven't seen a Mariel equivalent yet, but I don't read In Nomine fanfiction. And Mariel is way, way cool. As for Warriors universe...that one might be your most original and unique one to date since most video fanfic reads like "Fist of the NorthStar". Hell, your art deco/golden age of detective fiction is chic and has stayed chic over the last five or so years. Maybe that's just y'all catching the wave and coincidentally riding it, but I have a feeling that you're subtly part of the phenomena, not outside of it.

Even if the powers that be might get pissed over intellectual property, you've created a remarkable universe and one that will be enjoyed as long as English and the Internet exist. Plus, in 70 years all the source material IP will run out (assuming Congress doesn't do something stupid and even more conducive to stiffling inovation). So maybe we can't legitimately enjoy the body of work you've created, but my grandchildren will (mind you, I'm assuming a lot about the world 70 years from now, but it's too early on a Monday to be pessimistic). How many authors get that sort of fame?

Anyway, are you just feeling some extenstial angst? Are you worried that these stories didn't turn out the way you expected? If that's what you're worried about, why not try a project that doesn't have derviative source material? It's clear you can write original characters and put them interesting settings. Why not concentrate on doing something like that. You've the talent, you've obviously got some sort of muse...perhaps she's just prodding you in a new direction? (and yeah, I've said that before too - wasn't planning on bring it up but you started on this again so...)

>I am chuffed about the Titans fan art, though.

Chuffed? what does that mean?

t.
who will now duck and run from the Crack Weasels who will be a little ticked at the suggestion that an Author spends his energy on something other than fanfic.

p.s. btw, the comments hold for all the Eyrie authors - not just Gryph.

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"If we are marked to die, we are enough
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater the share of honour
God's will I pray thee wish not one man more" - Henry V, Act, IV Scene III

>Even if the powers that be might get pissed over intellectual
>property, you've created a remarkable universe and one that will be
>enjoyed as long as English and the Internet exist. Plus, in 70 years
>all the source material IP will run out (assuming Congress doesn't do
>something stupid and even more conducive to stiffling inovation). So
>maybe we can't legitimately enjoy the body of work you've created, but
>my grandchildren will (mind you, I'm assuming a lot about the world 70
>years from now, but it's too early on a Monday to be pessimistic).
>How many authors get that sort of fame?

Before you scoff at the unrealism of this scenario, keep in mind it has several historic precedents. The first example that springs to mind is Heinlein's lemon-scented crossover fanfic The Number of the Beast. Nobody's estate sued him for that one.

Mike Thedford
Ex-Dictator
Homemaker in Captivity

>Before you scoff at the unrealism of this scenario, keep in mind it
>has several historic precedents. The first example that springs to
>mind is Heinlein's lemon-scented crossover fanfic The Number of the
>Beast. Nobody's estate sued him for that one.
>
Hmm. Perhaps, but then again...

Na. Not going there.

ANYWAY...

Gryph, you ARE doing a lot of good. Why are you doing this? Cause we all love to read what you write. Yeah, maybe there wasn't 50+ posts immediatly on Blood ties, but this was just the first part, after all. You're laying ground work. And given the ground work you've laid, I expect parts 2 and 3 to be real rollercoasters.

>>I can understand the appeal of Starting Over being pretty
>>narrow, but the slack response to Blood Ties #1 has me a bit
>>surprised, given that there was (I thought) some pretty heavy stuff in
>>it. I dunno. Maybe it's just because it's the first of three parts
>>and I said as much when I released it. It just seems like it came out
>>and most of the board kinda went, "Huh? ... So anyway, how about
>>Sky Captain!"
>
>Having read them all and liked them all, I think the easiest thing to
>say is, well, on a Friday it's easier to post on something low brain
>(like a movie) then something high concept (like Raven as Rose Bride).
> Plus I'm trying to quietly think of a way of saying "I knew Akio was
>her father!" without sounding like a putz. I need to re-read your
>stuff about 2-3 more times before I can intelligently post. At least
>that's my excuse.

Personally, after 4 Eryie fics in the space of 2 weeks, I about ready to keel over from the overdose. Not that it would be a bad way to go (other than not reading how it ends). I didn't get a chance to finish Blood Ties until this weekend and as a few others have said, I'm still in the 'Wow!' stage.

>And frankly, you're part of one of the most copied fanfic groups on
>the internet. How many times has a DJ Croftesque character showed up
>in other universes? Way, way too many in the EVA fic I've read lately.
> What about the Norns as goddesses in crossover universes? Yup, seen
>them too. Maybe those are tips of the hat to you, but I've only seen
>two other anime fanfic authors get that kinda love since 2000, and
>neither has continued writing.

Umm Trigger? The Norns as Goddesses bits in Gods Willing and UF is adapted from the Ah! Megami-Sama/Oh! My Goddess anime and manga.

>Umm Trigger? The Norns as Goddesses bits in Gods Willing and UF is
>adapted from the Ah! Megami-Sama/Oh! My Goddess anime and manga.

Yes, I know. What I'm pointing out is how characters and situations in UF are mirrored in other fanfics. Croft was an example of using an archetype (British or at least BlueBlood American with great fighting skils and wits saves NGE universe). My point about Aa megami-sama was really about using the Norns as gods in a crossover universe. Prior to this, I saw them in contexts that stayed closed to the source material. Now I'm seeing them in their role as the fates in cross overs. Just my observation. That and $1.25 will get you a ride on MUNI.

t.

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"If we are marked to die, we are enough
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater the share of honour
God's will I pray thee wish not one man more" - Henry V, Act, IV Scene III

>t.
>who will now duck and run from the Crack Weasels who will be a little
>ticked at the suggestion that an Author spends his energy on something
>other than fanfic.

Why the hell would some of us do that? Hell, I've already offered to use what connections I have (the owner/EIC of F&SF is an old college friend of mine, for one) should Gryphon ever want to try his hand at pro writing.

-- Bob
-------------------
This announcement was brought to you by the Committee to Elect Abraham Lincoln President. Yes, he's dead, but that qualification alone makes him better than the other candidates.

Well... I feel partially to blame since I was the yay-hoo that started the thread. Sorry Gryph.

On the other hand... I couldn't help it. That show is different... I won't say 'Fresh'. More like finding your grand-daddy's Airforce Issue Bomber Jacket, perfectly preserved and still wafting that smell of warm, brown leather. I know that you'll like it, if not for the story then for the idea.

Yet, Sky Captain is nothing compared to the staggaring incredible work that is the Undocumented Features, a college spoof gone like a snowball down a mountain side. You did what many have tried to do in the beginings, got carried away with it, and helped it to flourish, grow, and mature into what it is today.

How many years have gone into the UF? Or, NXE for that matter, a crowning achievment if any. It hasn't been wasted. You, and the other Eyrie Authors, have entertained each other and probably hundreds, maybe thousands, of others ever since you wrote the first fateful story.

Be proud, Gryphon. You deserve it.

-NeoRaven
Hobbes: "I've never seen raisin bran do that before."
Calvin: "I put in an alcaseltzer."

>...
>I can't help but feel as though I must not be doing my job very well.

You have nothing to worry about.

Personally, I tend to lurk on forums like this because I rarely have anything unique to contribute to the discussions here. I will say this though: I've been reading the Eyrie crew's stories since 1992 or so. I wouldn't continue reading those stories -- read them multiple times, in several cases -- if I didn't like them.

So keep on writing, and write what makes you happy.

>I can't help but feel as though I must not be doing my job very well.

Like hell.

I will tell you that despite being doped to the gills with cold medicine, this past week has been some of the best reading I've done since ... um ... since. I'm in no real condition to do much more than give out mere fanboy yay-rah comments right now, and damn! but what you and Geoff and everyone have given us of late merits much, much more than simply drooling out "More! More!" (Even though Norman Mailer once said, in one of his most delightful little passages, that this is the really ultimate goal of the writer, the ultimate proof of skill, to reduce his reader to the state where he can do no more than pant, "And then what happened? Then what?")

And as it is already, I am literally years behind in commentary I have promised you. I need to fulfill that obligation yet...

-- Bob
-------------------
This announcement was brought to you by the Committee to Elect Abraham Lincoln President. Yes, he's dead, but that qualification alone makes him better than the other candidates.

Too many games, too little time.

(Seriously, you try and find time to do anything between WORK and Silent Hill 4, X-Men Legends, Star Ocean, and City of Heroes. I had to *force* myself to work on Drunkard's Walk the past weeks.)

Honestly, Gryphon, I ended up reading them all at once, and by the time I was done I was sort of in a "More!" mode, especially after _Dream_.

Since I know anything like that irritates the Fnord out of you, I decided to forgo comment.

This would likely be an unpopular comment, but I'd recommend that you space these releases out, so they don't overwhelm us. :D

--
Christopher Angel, aka JPublic
From first to last, the peak is never passed,
Something always fires the light that gets in your eyes.
One moment's high, and glory rolls on by
Like a streak of lightning that flashes and fades
In the summer sky.
-- "Marathon" by Rush

>Honestly, Gryphon, I ended up reading them all at once, and by the
>time I was done I was sort of in a "More!" mode, especially after
>_Dream_.
>
>Since I know anything like that irritates the Fnord out of you, I
>decided to forgo comment.

I feel particularly like an AOhelLer saying this, but "me too" :)

Seriously, I mostly forgo commenting (in general) because my reading style requires multiple passes before anything but the most blatant details sink in (and even then, if I want to comment usefully, I ahve to take notes, or I just end up with a kind 'wow, that was fun' sort of feeling when I'm done reading).

Not wanting to tap-dance along/across the line that is rule 1, and not having taken notes while reading, I haven't posted any comments on the recent stuff.

>This would likely be an unpopular comment, but I'd recommend that you
>space these releases out, so they don't overwhelm us. :D

part of me wants <censored for rule 1 violation> but the other part agrees with the above. Then again, I doubt any sort of timing modifications to your Muse would be overly helpful, so I'll just wait for the next arts to come, whenever they do.

>This would likely be an unpopular comment, but I'd recommend that you
>space these releases out, so they don't overwhelm us. :D

HEE HEE!

See, I finished 'A Certain Obligation', and Gryph finished the editing on it, and we put it out, and literally a day later he suddenly got Welcome Home done.

The conversation went something like this:
"I feel bad putting it out right on the heels of yours, like I'm going 'see? I'm still here!' I should wait a few days."
"Ah, put it out. It's good, the only person with a real right to bitch about it is, well, me, and I'm not going to."
"OK, then."

So this time, you have ME to blame, and not Gryphon! Just so blame goes to the right place, y'see.

Next time, I'll let him go first.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"Brazil has decided you're cute."

>So this time, you have ME to blame, and not Gryphon! Just so blame
>goes to the right place, y'see.
>
>Next time, I'll let him go first.
>
Oh Thhhhbbt. Don't worry about it. Unlike the others, given what Gryph has explained about the fitfullness of his muse sometimes, I welcome times when we get a flood. Reminds me of the heady days of the Symphony when she tied him to his chair and said "I'm not letting you up until you tell this..."

Gryphon,

You do realize that when you say things like this you just generate the urge for people to bombard you with the sterotypical fanboy approach. Besides, what is one movie that came out last week, though still bringing in the topic posts, to this massive continuity that you have spent the last 13 years upon with possibly hundreds of thousands to near millions of posts. Believe in the fact that you've reached out and grabbed the part of many people's minds that love to read and re-invigorated that.

Now, with my two cents spent, I've got to get back to getting my Virtual Machine of Linux running. Meh, sometimes I hate my Linux Admin course, but Eyrie is good to read while learning.

Edward Dunkel

LAST EDITED ON 10-23-04 AT 07:28 PM (EDT)
 
>Gryphon,
>
>You do realize that when you say things like this you just generate
>the urge for people to bombard you with the sterotypical fanboy

And since you've said you don't like that sort of thing, I don't go posting "oooh, shiny!" every time the What's New page changes. But the sentiment is there.

Edit: Bah, I'm resurrecting old threads. Serves me right for only coming here once in 2 months. I'll go away now.

--
Satya.

Well, there's only so many times an idiot like me can say good work without sounding like a broken recorder :)
Seriously though, it doesn't reflect on you; Eyrie Productions has produced the most quality fan-work I've ever seen and I will continue reading and re-reading this stuff for countless years to come. All the little details released on the forums notwithstanding, I've never really cared just as long as it was entertaining and you dudes never fail to scribble out fantastic work. The recent EPU releases are top notch in the entertainment department and I don't think there's a story you guys have written that I've read and disliked. So hold your head up high and remember that some fans think EPU houses the best writers imaginable.

Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna crawl back into the shadows......