>>I'll grant that point-based systems are interesting, but I actually
>>like the way the Earthdawn system ended up working out. Having to
>>train to a certain level in a number of talents before you get
>>to learn new ones I see as reasonable. And Circle is really only a
>>measure of how many talents you have access to.
>
>Earthdawn does handle the concept better than others, but I
>still see the class paradigm as fundamentally flawed if you're trying
>to run an even remotely realistic campaign. I mean, D&D is fun and
>all, but it's about as flexible as cast iron, and I haven't found a
>class system that overcomes the basic straightjacketing that using a
>class-based system does to you. It's always "These are the abilities
>you get. Period. You do not get these abilities. Ever. No matter
>what." And systems that allow you to eventually pick up other
>abilities (like, say, D&D) in a class-based paradigm also force you to
>pick up a bunch of abilities you may not want, or may not be
>appropriate to your character concept.

Earthdawn allows for skills outside of the magical talents that you can only get through training that only happens within a class. I think thats a beautiful thing. Yes, you can learn how to do all sorts of mundane things, but you really have to discipline yourself to learn the really cool magic stuff. Also, if none of the disciplines fit your character concept then create your own. In my very short campaign (playtesting Path of Deception), one of my players really wanted to be a lawman sort of character, so we talked at great length and came up with a very cool Marshal discipline.

>>Some point-based systems I find go way overboard.
>
>Like what? I'm a big GURPS fan, personally, although I concede
>that chargen can take forever in that system (it's no
>Runequest, but I know it's rough). When I was running a
>GURPS campaign for a bunch of people with little to no
>experience in the system, the entire first session was chargen.
> Yes, they were 200-point characters, but I can generate a 100-point
>character in half an hour, and I didn't think it would take three
>hours to create these characters. I guess it's that you have to
>have a pretty solid character concept in mind before you even start in
>GURPS, while in most systems (like, say, Storyteller) you can
>just muddle your way through.

Begining players have a difficult time with the whole build your own character from nothing concept. I enjoy pre-fuzion Champions myself, and I tried to run a campaign once, but people had alot of trouble coming up with what they wanted to do. They needed a mold to base their characters upon.

>>Regardless, I think Earthdawn's system fits the world. Heroes don't
>>start out knowing everything - they have to build their legends.
>
>You can say that for the recommended starting point for any
>system, though. I do like that Earthdawn actually measures the amount
>of fame you get, but I don't like the degree to which it plays into
>your character abilities.

I'm a little confused here. You don't like how it takes both practice and "real world" experience to improve a characters abilities, and that experience comes from doing things that people notice and talk about. All they've done is add a metric that says, once you've gained x amount of experience, y number of people will have heard about what you've done. Thats a really cool concept.

>>I'll grant it can be confusing. I like it, but that doesn't mean it's
>>simple. ;)
>
>It's unnecessarily complicated.
>
>I think the main reason GURPS is my system of choice is
>because, once you get past chargen, it's amazingly simple. Roll 3d
>against a target number. That's all. And even combat can be as
>complicated or as simple as you like. That, and it adapts far better
>to multiple settings than many other "universal" systems (like, say,
>d20). (I admit that it doesn't work very well for really high-powered
>-- like, say, Superman, Green Lantern, or Flash -- superheroes, but
>for characters like Black Canary, Green Arrow, Batman, or most Marvel
>heroes, the supers rules work very well.)

I like the different levels of success available with Earthdawn. You roll dice to hit a target number, but if you do significantly better than that number, then you hit your opponent better. The better you get with an attack, the easier it becomes to exceed that threshold because you roll more or bigger dice. I don't know about GURPS, but in Champions, everyone has the same chance to do a critical hit as the target for that is ALWAYS 18 (6s on all 3d6).

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