I just got done reading this, and I've come to one conclusion: the characters are written to be so human it's uncanny. And when one pulls that off, it shows they know what the hell they're doing. Good job, Gryph. :)

Side Note, possibly slightly spoilerish: when I got the part about Corwin describing what happened to Kala, the Offspring's "Gone Away" came up in WinAmp. Wow. It fit so well.

Reverend Hammer

>I just got done reading this, and I've come to one conclusion: the
>characters are written to be so human it's uncanny. And when
>one pulls that off, it shows they know what the hell they're doing.
>Good job, Gryph. :)

It was great, but I feel like a wonderful piece of the story has ended. Argh!!!! Where is the teen angst? Where is Utena wondering what Anthy really means to her? Why is Corwin dealing so well?

T.
Who likes a little romance to go with her morning fan fic.

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

>>I just got done reading this, and I've come to one conclusion: the
>>characters are written to be so human it's uncanny. And when
>>one pulls that off, it shows they know what the hell they're doing.
>>Good job, Gryph. :)
>
>It was great, but I feel like a wonderful piece of the story has
>ended. Argh!!!! Where is the teen angst? Where is Utena wondering
>what Anthy really means to her? Why is Corwin dealing so well?

Teen angst? I think that this arc has had enough of that, don't you? Untena isn't wondering what anthy means to her, because she already went down that road a while ago...Corwin is dealing, because he does...he understands whats going on, he hasn't lost his best freind, and he's trying to see the world through rose coloured glasses right now, he'll go gnaw on his own liver later on, in private. I suspect *much* time in his lab. (well, ok, much more time then.) that, and Gryph wondering what's wrong with him, and he just not telling.

--
-Pasha
Umm, right....I'll be with you in just a sec now...

LAST EDITED ON Sep-10-01 AT 01:17 PM (EDT)

>It was great, but I feel like a wonderful piece of the story has
>ended. Argh!!!! Where is the teen angst? Where is Utena wondering
>what Anthy really means to her?

It'd be out of character for Utena to go on wrangling with that for too long. She just doesn't take long to make up her mind about things, and placed in a situation where she has to make a decision, she makes it and lives with it. I see that as one of the central pillars of her character. She's a decisive person by nature, and she's learned from bitter experience that if you let things go too long, they have a way of coming back and biting you on the ass.

However - don't make the mistake of assuming that this thing is over and done with just because both participants say so. Maybe they make that assumption, but that's no reason for you to. When was anything ever that simple in the real world, let alone a world where everything is louder? Especially at their age?

>Why is Corwin dealing so well?

What makes you so certain he is? What, exactly, could he have done other than what he did? You have to make the best you can out of any given situation, and as another poster pointed out, he hasn't lost anything; he's simply been informed that he doesn't stand to gain anything.

Besides, bursting into tears and railing against the injustice of the universe in public is unseemly.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>Besides, bursting into tears and railing against the injustice of the
>universe in public is unseemly.

Especially for a young demigod/godling. Unless that's their sphere of influence. ("Hi, I'm Wai, semi-hemi-goddess of tantrums and sobs!")

-- Bob
---------------
Maya: Isn't there anything we can do?
Ritsuko-chan: Well, there is one thing we haven't tried. We can pray real hard!
-- from Tenshi Muyo! Rei-o-ohki

once again, I bow to Gyrphon-sensei for showing wisdom beyond fan-child years.
;)

>It'd be out of character for Utena to go on wrangling with that for
>too long. She just doesn't take long to make up her mind about
>things, and placed in a situation where she has to make a
>decision, she makes it and lives with it. I see that as one of the
>central pillars of her character.

Ah. I guess because no one explicitly told me Utena made a decision, I asummed (i know, i know) that she hadn't. Oops.

>However - don't make the mistake of assuming that this thing is over
>and done with just because both participants say so. Maybe
>they make that assumption, but that's no reason for you
>to. When was anything ever that simple in the real world, let alone a
>world where everything is louder? Especially at their age?

Thank you. It seemed a little too pat...but Then again, I'm not the type of person do things like that...

<Halogen of stunning realization shines down on my cube>

oh wait, I did do that once...back in my teens...

<bows again>
I see what you mean.

>What makes you so certain he is? What, exactly, could he have done
>other than what he did?
>Besides, bursting into tears and railing against the injustice of the
>universe in public is unseemly.

Isn't it though? And Utena is not the sort of girl who would be impressed by silly tears...

feeling better,
t.

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

>>It'd be out of character for Utena to go on wrangling with that for
>>too long. She just doesn't take long to make up her mind about
>>things, and placed in a situation where she has to make a
>>decision, she makes it and lives with it. I see that as one of the
>>central pillars of her character.
>
>Ah. I guess because no one explicitly told me Utena made a decision,
>I asummed (i know, i know) that she hadn't. Oops.

Well, I guess it was kind of subtle. In Hogtown Rhapsody, when she toasts Anthy's birthday, Utena finally comes right out and says to her, if only in the privacy of her own mind, "I love you." Now, that's a phrase that can have a lot of meanings, I admit; but under the circumstances, it represents Utena's conclusion that, not-what-she's-usually-into or not, their engagement stands. A lot of things brought her to that point, not least of which was her conversation with Dios, but in the end, that's where the decision is finally taken.

Anyway, she probably didn't work it out completely, consciously, until right at the point where she was telling Corwin about it - sort of an, "Oh yeah, that is what I meant, isn't it?" moment.

But like I said - when were things ever that simple in normal high school? This isn't over with - it's only gone to a new stage. You'll see more of what that stage looks like in Hunted Rose.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>Well, I guess it was kind of subtle. In Hogtown Rhapsody, when
>she toasts Anthy's birthday, Utena finally comes right out and says to
>her, if only in the privacy of her own mind, "I love you." Now,
>that's a phrase that can have a lot of meanings, I admit; but under
>the circumstances, it represents Utena's conclusion that,
>not-what-she's-usually-into or not, their engagement stands. A lot of
>things brought her to that point, not least of which was her
>conversation with Dios, but in the end, that's where the decision is
>finally taken.
>

That's pretty much the impression I got as well... Somewhere in the course of Hogtown, Utena has come to grips with the fact that she IS the holder of Dios' power... as Dios himself points out, eventually the two will become one. Part and parcel of that is Anthy as her bride, reguardless of if she fishes that side of the pond or not... and that Utena has so much love for Anthy that it doesnt matter.

Such humanity, from people with such universe moving powers... There is the true heart of UF, what makes it worth reading.

Is it the end of the Corwin/Utena relationship? Not just friendship, but the forshadowing of something more? Even if Gryph HADN'T said life is never that easy, even in a real high school, I would have expected that there are still threads to this skein that we havent even SEEN, let alone untangled!

You know, somehow around the time of Christmas and New Years rose, I had this vision of Utena, Anthy, and Corwin in a mutually loving and supportive relationship ala those we've seen from time to time amoungst the UF leadership in the past. Is it accurate? Only Gryph knows for certain, and He's not telling! ^_^

___________________

Vaughn doesn't know I exist. I guess this explains why the rest of reality keeps ignoring me as well. >_<

>Is it the end of the Corwin/Utena relationship? Not just friendship,
>but the forshadowing of something more? Even if Gryph HADN'T said
>life is never that easy, even in a real high school, I would have
>expected that there are still threads to this skein that we havent
>even SEEN, let alone untangled!

You know, this tickled somehting in my brain, so I went back, and searched through "A Rose for the New Year", and found the following snippet...

"Yeah, I'm fine," Corwin replied, wiping his hands down is face. "I'm just a little out of it. I had a really weird dream this morning."

<snippage of nifty but not-relevant Real Genius reference>

"So w-what -was- it ab-b-bout?" Kate asked.
"I... don't really remember," said Corwin, still looking confused. "There was this girl... I dunno who she was. Not really my type, but beautiful, and... " He shook his head. "It's slipping away. I can't remember... "

so, here's my random thought (which is probably way off, but hey...)
how 'his type' is, oh, say... ?

This has been your random thought for the day (or, at least, my random thought for the day, that I'm sharing with all of you :)

>>Well, I guess it was kind of subtle. In Hogtown Rhapsody, when
>>she toasts Anthy's birthday, Utena finally comes right out and says to
>>her, if only in the privacy of her own mind, "I love you." Now,
>>that's a phrase that can have a lot of meanings, I admit; but under
>>the circumstances, it represents Utena's conclusion that,
>>not-what-she's-usually-into or not, their engagement stands. A lot of
>>things brought her to that point, not least of which was her
>>conversation with Dios, but in the end, that's where the decision is
>>finally taken.
>Is it the end of the Corwin/Utena relationship? Not just friendship,
>but the forshadowing of something more? Even if Gryph HADN'T said
>life is never that easy, even in a real high school, I would have
>expected that there are still threads to this skein that we havent
>even SEEN, let alone untangled!
>
>You know, somehow around the time of Christmas and New Years rose, I
>had this vision of Utena, Anthy, and Corwin in a mutually loving and
>supportive relationship ala those we've seen from time to time
>amoungst the UF leadership in the past. Is it accurate? Only Gryph
>knows for certain, and He's not telling! ^_^

Something came to me the other day. Gryph's assertion that it wasn't the end, and then this picture that popped into my head...If it turns out to be something like my example below, I will be in utter rapture.
------
Anthy is back, and it's nighttime. Utena and Anthy are preparing for bed. Utena leans over to kiss Anthy.
"Ah, Utena..."
"Yes, Anthy?
"Utena, I am the Rose Bride, and you are the Prince."
"Mmm...yes, I know."
"But you're a girl!"
"What does that matter with love?"
"AND you're technically my brother!"
"Er...well, when you put it like that..."
"Utena..."
"But...Anthy...I love you!"
"Now, now, Utena. We're still the best of friends! But this won't do."
"...but..."
"No buts! Go to Corwin!"
"Aww, Anthy..."
"Go!"
Utena grumbles and slinks off. Later..
Corwin is up working late in his workshop.
<knock knock> "Huh?" He goes to the door, opening it to find a tear-faced Utena Tenjou. He let her in, only to have her attach herself to his shoulder, bawling.
"Um..." Corwin said intelligently. He consented to being cried on for a few more moments, then gently extracted himself. "What's wrong, Utena?"
She sniffled. "Anthy won't sleep with me! She told me to sleep with you, instead!" She blinked, hearing an odd *thud*. "Um...<sniffle> Corwin?"

Just at that moment, Dorothy walked in to the scene of a red-eyed Utena standing over an unconscious Corwin. "What did you do, break him?" she said reproachfully. "You need to be more careful when playing with your toys."
She was entirely confused when Utena started crying for no apparent reason.
------

Well, amusement, anyways.

Sabishii
"What? I'm not on any drugs. Really."

>"Utena, I am the Rose Bride, and you are the Prince."
>"Mmm...yes, I know."
>"But you're a girl!"
>"What does that matter with love?"
>"AND you're technically my brother!"
>"Er...well, when you put it like that..."

While I haven't seen RGU, the impression I've got is that such things aren't even an issue ^_^.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process

>>"Utena, I am the Rose Bride, and you are the Prince."
>>"Mmm...yes, I know."
>>"But you're a girl!"
>>"What does that matter with love?"
>>"AND you're technically my brother!"
>>"Er...well, when you put it like that..."
>
>While I haven't seen RGU, the impression I've got is that such things
>aren't even an issue ^_^.

Yeah - that's *normal* for that universe. ;-)

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
See what I'm selling on eBay

>>While I haven't seen RGU, the impression I've got is that such things
>>aren't even an issue ^_^.
>
>Yeah - that's *normal* for that universe. ;-)

Although, in one episode, Touga does lecture Nanami about it was meant to be man and woman.

-------
Y. Michael Chang
Berkeley, CA

>Although, in one episode, Touga does lecture Nanami about it was meant
>to be man and woman.

Well, sure, but Touga is hardly a credible authority. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>>>"Utena, I am the Rose Bride, and you are the Prince."
>>>"Mmm...yes, I know."
>>>"But you're a girl!"
>>>"What does that matter with love?"
>>>"AND you're technically my brother!"
>>>"Er...well, when you put it like that..."
>>
>>While I haven't seen RGU, the impression I've got is that such things
>>aren't even an issue ^_^.
>
>Yeah - that's *normal* for that universe. ;-)
>
>-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org

You know, the UF cast could do a week of Jerry Springer (not that we'd want to).

"I'm married to a computer generated cartoon character."

"So am I!"

"I married a sentient squirrel."

"So did I, but my squirrel's the Queen!"

"I'm in love with an AI that's inhabiting my Veritech."

"I'm a Veritech that fell in love with the AI on board the SDF-17, but now I'm hooked up with one of the Eight-Balls"

"I...um...spent a night with a mortal at the End of the World"

"I'm best friends with my handgun...wanna make something of it?"

"My wife is 20,000 years old, but she looks thirteen."

"I fell in love with a rock star, but my dad threw his old girlfriend's mind into a new body, and that screwed everything up."

--rR

>
>You know, the UF cast could do a week of Jerry Springer (not
>that we'd want to).
>
>"I'm married to a computer generated cartoon character."
>
>"So am I!"
>

Polyamorous Immortals Who Married Computer Generated Cartoon Characters...

>
>"I married a sentient squirrel."
>
>"So did I, but my squirrel's the Queen!"
>

Mixed Marriages...Can They Work?

My Wife Is Married To Her Empire... (this one's scheduled for a decade hence, if Devlin's available for a second viewpoint)

>
>"I'm in love with an AI that's inhabiting my Veritech."
>
>"I'm a Veritech that fell in love with the AI on board the SDF-17, but
>now I'm hooked up with one of the Eight-Balls"
>

ACIs and their Love Affairs...

>
>"I...um...spent a night with a mortal at the End of the World"
>

True Confessions From Ragnarok (They have to be true, Springer's not dumb enough to force a goddess to spill something. Or at least he wouldn't try it twice...)

>
>"I'm best friends with my handgun...wanna make something of it?"
>

My Girlfriend Is In Love With Her Handgun...

>
>"My wife is 20,000 years old, but she looks thirteen."
>

Beauty Secrets of the Immortal Mortals (Not inviting any gods, thankyouverymuch, the lightning bolts were a problem last time)

>
>
>"I fell in love with a rock star, but my dad threw his old
>girlfriend's mind into a new body, and that screwed
>everything up."
>

My Father Resurrected My Boyfriend's Old Lover...

Peter Eng
--
The scary thing is, I've never watched an episode of Springer. All these titles are invented thanks to occasional ads on TV, watching UHF, and listening to Weird Al's song _Talk Soup._

>I just got done reading this, and I've come to one conclusion: the
>characters are written to be so human it's uncanny. And when
>one pulls that off, it shows they know what the hell they're doing.
>Good job, Gryph. :)

seconded :)

>Side Note, possibly slightly spoilerish: when I got the part about
>Corwin describing what happened to Kala, the Offspring's "Gone Away"
>came up in WinAmp. Wow. It fit so well.

and I got "Broken Home" (Papa Roach) on Winamp...are the llamas psychic, or something? (please, no comments about psi-corp here...PLEASE :)

>>Side Note, possibly slightly spoilerish: when I got the part about
>>Corwin describing what happened to Kala, the Offspring's "Gone Away"
>>came up in WinAmp. Wow. It fit so well.
>
>and I got "Broken Home" (Papa Roach) on Winamp...are the llamas
>psychic, or something? (please, no comments about psi-corp
>here...PLEASE :)

Llamma is Mother, Llamma is Father....

--
-Pasha
I got your Narn bait right here baby!

>Llamma is Mother, Llamma is Father....
>
>--
>-Pasha
>I got your Narn bait right here baby!

*WHAM* }snicker{ *wham* }chortle{

aww, to hell with it.

There is no Llama but Llama, and Llama is his prophet....

>>Llamma is Mother, Llamma is Father....
>>
>>--
>>-Pasha
>>I got your Narn bait right here baby!
>
>
>*WHAM* }snicker{ *wham* }chortle{
>
>aww, to hell with it.
>
>There is no Llama but Llama, and Llama is his prophet....

As soon as I manage to stop laughing you will both get *WHAM!*ed...

Pangaro, *WHAM!**WHAM!**WHAM!**WHAM!**WHAM!*
Member of the Narn Bat Squad

LAST EDITED ON Sep-10-01 AT 06:18 PM (EDT)

I have to agree, very nice Interlude piece. I'm a fan of Corwin, so I have to say any story with him strikes my fancy. This one, though, I liked especially because of the "Clark Kent" feelings Corwin had. "I'm so powerful, son of a goddess and a warrior, I should do more." While I have to admit it might have been fun to see Corwin slip into kind of a Bruce Wayne personae, that's best left to the imagination. Corwin's not Bruce Wayne, and I think Gryphon handled it quite masterfully having Utena stop him then and there before he could slip into something darker. My hat is litterally off to Gryphon (literally, it's sitting beside me, off my head.) and this piece.

Static-Pulse
Who has to admit, that whether it would br wrong or not, a Dark Knight Corwin would be cool.
- the most impulsive post alive
DarkBeast.com

>Static-Pulse
>Who has to admit, that whether it would br wrong or not, a Dark
>Knight Corwin would be cool.
> - the most impulsive post alive
>DarkBeast.com

Thanks. The image I have in my head is Corwin "Toyman" Ravenhair (and his sidekick, Dorothy), the God of Mindstorms! Fighting crime with computerized Lego bricks (and wearing an armor suit of same), he battles evil and Luddism everywhere!

--rR

Two words: Mmmmm... Mindstorms. But, dude, yeah, wouldn't Corwin just kick so much butt if he had a LEGO system akin to Pmoyer's in Serendipity.

<Dorothy> Are you playing with your blocks again?
<Corwin> They aren't blocks, they're LEGO bricks.
<Dorothy> ...
<Corwin> Yes. Yes, I am.

Static-Pulse
- the most impulsive post alive
DarkBeast.com

"No, Dark Helmet, I didn't just see you playing with your dolls again."

--rR

>"No, Dark Helmet, I didn't just see you playing with your dolls
>again."

It's official; ReRob broke me.

Congrats. :)

Reverend Hammer
Finally been shattered...

LAST EDITED ON Sep-14-01 AT 10:43 AM (EDT)

Literacy!

--rR