Yep. Next tuesday(the 29th) comes the first expansion, as opposed to DLC, for XCom 2. Three new super-enemies, three new factions, three new Advent units,new game-play, and of course the (shudders in revulsion) zombies. Right, sorry, "Lost". Because that changes what they are.

Who's interested? Well, beyond ME, that is.

For those with little to no knowledge, but an interest in knowing more, a small preview of what is to come, from what little I do know:

Factions, that is to say, other Resistance-groups that aren't actually XCom. There are three, as noted.
The Reapers, who are stealth-and-snipe experts, who apparently doesn't, necessarily, loose concealment when they shoot their special rifle. Shadow Mode, as it's called, also allow for greater movement, and smaller detection radius by the enemy. They also have a, potentially sticky, mine that anyone can detonate by shooting it.
The Templars are psonics-specialists and close-combat oriented. They have two psi-blades to rush in and eviserate with, and also create shields to counter enemy fire, as well as psi-lightning. At least most, if not all, of these abilities require "Focus", however, which you gain by killing.
Last is the Skirmishers, a group of de-chipped ex-Advent soldiers. Yep, they look like the guy under the helmet in the "rescue the commander" intro-mission. The Skirmishers come pre-equipped with a special grapple that not only can pull THEM around, but can actually pull ENEMIES out of cover. If they could pull FRIENDLIES BACK, they'd be the perfect counter to the fricking Snakewomen. It can also be used to deliver electro-shocks. Apart from that, they use a two-shots bullpup rifle. Their expanded abilities also center around more actions and re-actions.

Advent, on the other hand, are rolling out three new units to meet the Resistance with:
The Purifier is a flamethrower-equipped soldier meant to counter large numbers of enemies, affecting areas, so clumping up is a bad idea. And, as with most flamethrowers, they're somewhat volatile. So, your swordmaster Ranger should NOT attack unless you want him/her extra crispy.
The Priest is the Advents new psionic unit(and probably extra fanatical, with that name). They run around doing the old Sectoid "boost someone else" trick from the first XCom...except they can boost anyone. Of course, there's still the same old OTHER issue. Dead Priest, dead boosted unit.
And then there is the Spectre....and just what that thing IS...yeah. Not only can the Spectre turn into a CLOUD, which you can't shoot, but it also has the ability to somehow create a copy of itself from one of your soldiers, knocking it unconcious in the process. So, you're down one unit, and they're up one. FUN!

Oh, yeah. Your units can now be knocked out without actually being injured/dying. This also plays into the new "super-units" that the aliens have pulled out of somewhere.

There is the Assassin, who is primarily a close-combat unit that can either stealth or teleport...or both, who uses a sword and apparently have some sort of smoke grenade that completely removes any vision. There is some sort of "psionic wave" shown, and MAYBE a "steal an XCom soldiers gun" but that's it for range.

The Hunter, as you might guess, is the complete opposite, using grapples and a sniper rifle to utterly wreck your day. There seems to be some sort of "keep shooting as long as you're hitting" ability, and a MASSIVE sight-range. Yay, fun.

And lastly, we have the Warlock, which of course is the Psionic unit. It can raise multiple dead enemies, as well as mind-control multiple soldiers, it looks like. There also look like some sort of "psionic ghost" can be raised...and then, of course, is the "usual" psi lightning.

Beyond this is, of course, the fact that it doesn't seem as if you KILL these units, but merely DEFEAT them...allowing them to come back with greater abilities...OTHER abilities...or both at the same time.

Oh, and that "knocked out" thing that seems to be a new thing? The three specials all seem to do that...and then KIDNAP your soldiers, not only removing a soldier from your roster, at least for the time being, but also allowing them to interrogate that soldier, getting all sorts of info and advantage. On the other hand, this means that you get a new type of rescue-missions, which sounds interesting.

And then...there's the last "group". The Lost. Essentially, in the original XCom intro movies, there fell all sorts of things to Earth, slamming into the streets and releasing weird green energy/gas. These things are still around in various abandoned cities around the world. And, so are the people that LIVED in those cities when it happened. Sort of. They've been reduced to shambling, corpse-looking wrecks drifting around aimlessly.

Yeah. They're zombies. Because everything has to have f*cking zombies. Gods, I wish that trope would just DIE already, no pun intended.

But, anyways. The previously mentioned Purifier? Yeah, he's primarily meant to combat the Lost. Who, incidentally, are fairly easy to fight one-on-one, but who tend to react to the sound of combat...and PARTICULARLY explosions. So, if you just find the one or two? NO problem, particularly if you get them with a Ranger. Chop, chop, no bangs, no booms. Done. But when you get this great idea that, hey, there's three of them, and they're standing RIGHT next to each other...GRENADE! Well, you'll be in trouble. There'll be 35 of them shambling into your unit in a huge horde. Oy.

Beyond these, there'll be new things and changes in the strategy gameplay, with new "covert" missions, such as the mentioned "rescue a soldier" and others, and also new and different orders you can give to the various factions, after you've found, met and recruited them to your side, giving you different bonuses and advantages, depending on which order you give.

Yeah...I'm REALLY looking forward to this, as it promises to make XCom new and fresh and very different from before.

...!
Stoke Mandeville, Esq & The Victorian Ballsmiths
"Nobody Want Verdigris-Covered Balls!"

I've been looking forward to this since it was announced at E3. Unfortunately, I won't be able to play it for two weeks, as we go on holiday the day before it's released.

It's weird, I really liked XCOM 2 right up until the point at which I suddenly couldn't stand to play it for even a second longer. There was no middle phase, no "eh, I'm getting a bit tired of this game," it was just straight from "this is awesome" to "I would rather wax my kitchen floor than play this damn game any more."

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>It's weird, I really liked XCOM 2 right up until the point at
>which I suddenly couldn't stand to play it for even a second longer.
>There was no middle phase, no "eh, I'm getting a bit tired of this
>game," it was just straight from "this is awesome" to "I would rather
>wax my kitchen floor than play this damn game any more."

I've noticed that's been a universal criticism, that all the awesomeness of the game quickly wears out when you're running yet another mission with the "beat the level in less than 12 turns" artificial difficulty. The whole concealment mechanism becomes redundant when you've gotta rush the objective without any guarantee that there's not a Sectopod around the corner to pounce on your entire squad.

>>It's weird, I really liked XCOM 2 right up until the point at
>>which I suddenly couldn't stand to play it for even a second longer.
>>There was no middle phase, no "eh, I'm getting a bit tired of this
>>game," it was just straight from "this is awesome" to "I would rather
>>wax my kitchen floor than play this damn game any more."
>
>I've noticed that's been a universal criticism, that all the
>awesomeness of the game quickly wears out when you're running yet
>another mission with the "beat the level in less than 12 turns"
>artificial difficulty. The whole concealment mechanism becomes
>redundant when you've gotta rush the objective without any guarantee
>that there's not a Sectopod around the corner to pounce on your entire
>squad.

I have -shamelessly- abused the 'no artifical timer' cheat mod. Shamelessly.

As for the xpac, I may wait to get it depending on how they handle some of the new mechanics. If you're -forced- to lose a soldier every now and then, with no recourse, no skill able to resist it I may never purchase it. If it's something strategy or strong will can resist, that's something else again.

------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her

There are some playthroughs on youtube from some folks with advance access (I've been watching Christopher Odd's) and it seems as if aside from one cut scene in a story mission, losing troops is a matter of being attacked during missions so it should be avoidable with good moves and RNG permitting.

As noted, you're not, as best I can tell, FORCED to loose a soldier. There is, however, a notable RISK of loosing a soldier. And then, even if you DO, there are "rescue the kidnapped soldier" missions.

...!
Stoke Mandeville, Esq & The Victorian Ballsmiths
"Nobody Want Verdigris-Covered Balls!"

>As noted, you're not, as best I can tell, FORCED to loose a soldier.
>There is, however, a notable RISK of loosing a soldier. And then, even
>if you DO, there are "rescue the kidnapped soldier" missions.

Well, that's slightly different. =) That's not very different from losing them to the medbay, really, minus the 'they torture/interrogate them' angle. But the key for me is fairness. Hidden chances and BS hit percentages have always been a thing in these games and I want everything to be in the open. (It struck me recently, when I was replaying FO4, that the VATS hit percentages actually felt more accurate than the ones in XCOM games ever did, despite them swearing up and down there's no hidden numbers there.)

Regardless, I'll certainly take a look when it's released.

------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her

> Hidden chances and BS hit
>percentages have always been a thing in these games and I want
>everything to be in the open.

My understanding is that almost nothing in the XCOM reboot uses hidden numbers and the percentages you see are completely accurate, and to the extent that's not true it shades in favor of the player. Have I been misinformed?

Also too: War of the Chosen introduces an additional tool to give you more information. Namely, when you're considering moving a guy, you can see who he's flanking from his new projected position and what your hit percentages are and suchly. It won't give you information you CAN'T have from your CURRENT position; if moving into the new spot triggers another pod it will not tell you. But it will tell you what the new position does vis-a-vis pods you can already see.

-Merc
Keep Rat

>> Hidden chances and BS hit
>>percentages have always been a thing in these games and I want
>>everything to be in the open.
>
>My understanding is that almost nothing in the XCOM reboot uses hidden
>numbers and the percentages you see are completely accurate, and to
>the extent that's not true it shades in favor of the player. Have I
>been misinformed?

Don't think so. As I alluded to in a previous post, Firaxis did already address the issue.

>
>Also too: War of the Chosen introduces an additional tool to give you
>more information. Namely, when you're considering moving a guy, you
>can see who he's flanking from his new projected position and what
>your hit percentages are and suchly. It won't give you information you
>CAN'T have from your CURRENT position; if moving into the new spot
>triggers another pod it will not tell you. But it will tell you what
>the new position does vis-a-vis pods you can already see.

Now that's interesting.

------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her

>I have -shamelessly- abused the 'no artifical timer' cheat mod.
>Shamelessly.

You won't need to do this anymore in War of the Chosen. They just straight-up let you disable the thing, or at least flip a toggle that like triples the length.

-Merc
Keep Rat

LAST EDITED ON Aug-22-17 AT 10:15 PM (EDT)
 
>I've noticed that's been a universal criticism, that all the
>awesomeness of the game quickly wears out when you're running yet
>another mission with the "beat the level in less than 12 turns"
>artificial difficulty.

The hell of it is, the timer missions would be fine if they weren't like two-thirds of all missions.

The way the design process seems to have worked is "we want to discourage the style of gameplay that was super optimal in the first game, namely 'get some snipers and slowly creep forward, clearing the entire map from as far away from the enemy as humanly possible. Maybe mix it up with some flying snipers or flying tanks.'"

Making the missions time-sensitive, or having endless reinforcement waves, does indeed force people to take an aggressive stance on them, moving forward briskly, taking calculated risks, that sort of thing. But it probably seemed a little brutal... so they added the conceal mechanic, meaning you always got one free hit off firing from stealth. Which is fine, except they also added in a bunch of stealth powers and upgrades that become, as you say, a bit redundant.

>The whole concealment mechanism becomes redundant when you've gotta rush the
>objective without any guarantee that there's not a Sectopod around the corner
>to pounce on your entire squad.

This, I think, is the crux of the dilemma between people who really love XCOM in its new form and people who want to love it but are frustrated by it.

Firaxis wants you to have to be aggressive and take risks in order to win, to play in ways that would be decidedly non-optimal if the timers weren't there, and to have to act like a beleaguered resistance force that needs to strike fast and then clear out because you're actually fighting a huge army backed up by an even huger militia and a semi-hostile populace, which means they'll fucking kill you in a fair fight. You're supposed to rush around the corner without knowing if a Sectopod is there, and maybe you deal with it, or maybe everybody dies, and you're supposed to be okay with your dudes dying, because there are more dudes, so as long as the dudes aren't dying every single mission, or you haven't managed your personnel so poorly that one single squad is the linchpin around which XCOM survives or fails, you'll be fine.

There is 100% nothing wrong with that as a matter of game design.

But some people very much aren't going to like it, at all. Some people are going to quit a game and never come back to it if they experience a TPK, and the stress they feel from trying to avoid that TPK, which is real fuckin' difficult if you aren't a true XCOM master, sucks the fun out of the game for them.

And there's nothing wrong with feeling that way either.

-Merc
Keep Rat

>It's weird, I really liked XCOM 2 right up until the point at
>which I suddenly couldn't stand to play it for even a second longer.

The same thing sort of happened to me, although annoyingly, it happened to me (as far as I can tell) literally just before the final plot mission. I've been sitting there staring at it (well, no, I've been off doing other things actually, but, you know, rhetoric) for something like a year, knowing I could just finish the damn thing and be done, and I just... don't.

dbrandon

When I got my new computer last week, it was one of the first things I reinstalled in anticipation. Although to be fair, I might be grabbing Mario + Rabbids first.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

I am greatly amused by the fact that the Mario game with XCOM gameplay is being released on the same day as this.

> Yeah. They're zombies. Because everything has to have f*cking zombies.

And yeah, now I nope out of this game series.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"

>> Yeah. They're zombies. Because everything has to have f*cking zombies.
>
>And yeah, now I nope out of this game series.

What's especially facepalmy is that the X{-}COM series already HAD zombies right from day 1. This reads like they're just adding the modern Left 4 Dead/28 Days Later-style "fast horde" version, and that's pretty transparent bandwagonry.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

For me it was:

"This sounds like a lot of the things people got ticked off about might be better-"
> zombies
"Fuck no."

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"

>For me it was:
>
>"This sounds like a lot of the things people got ticked off about
>might be better-"
>> zombies
>"Fuck no."

As our own Kelly St. Clair once peerlessly summed it up, "Zombies. Fuck off."

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

A decade later, my feelings on the matter have, if anything, only grown stronger.

Yeah the zombies are an annoyance, but there are enough other things in the expansion that I decided to grab it. Watched a couple of the preview/review youtube videos that cover a lot of the feature changes as well as some of the subtle world changing/building they put in without directly changing the existing game.

LAST EDITED ON Sep-09-17 AT 08:56 PM (EDT)
 
>Last is the Skirmishers, a group of de-chipped ex-Advent soldiers.

Having now seen their in-game introduction (in a gameplay video, I don't have the game myself): This doesn't make any sense. Sure, I can see where an existing group of "off-grid" ADVENT could go around "recruiting" by (somehow) non-fatally skulljacking their former comrades, but how would such a group ever get started as an independent entity in the first place? There can't have been some "first defector" who arrived at the conclusion on his own, not with the ADVENT psionic hivemind enforcing loyalty. They would only make sense as an adjunct to one of the other groups—most plausibly, given their technical resources, XCOM themselves; they don't make any that I can see as an entirely separate, self-contained faction.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Perhaps the idea is that it got started with someone whose control system malfunctioned or was damaged? Sort of like how the FiM fanfic "Days of Wasp and Spider" starts out with Fusion Pulse¹ having her 'blessing' burnt out during an experiment.

1: i.e. Celestia before she was called Celestia.

>>Last is the Skirmishers, a group of de-chipped ex-Advent soldiers.
>
>Having now seen their in-game introduction (in a gameplay video, I
>don't have the game myself): This doesn't make any sense.
>Sure, I can see where an existing group of "off-grid" ADVENT could go
>around "recruiting" by (somehow) non-fatally skulljacking their former
>comrades, but how would such a group ever get started as an
>independent entity in the first place? There can't have been some
>"first defector" who arrived at the conclusion on his own, not with
>the ADVENT psionic hivemind enforcing loyalty. They would only make
>sense as an adjunct to one of the other groups—most plausibly, given
>their technical resources, XCOM themselves; they don't make any that I
>can see as an entirely separate, self-contained faction.
>

I don't know whether it's possible to use a stun gun on ADVENT soldiers in the first place, but I imagine some XCOM squaddie trying this, and getting shot after it doesn't work. The power surge disrupts the ADVENT soldier's enforced loyalty, and she goes AWOL before the next loyalty check-up.

Peter Eng
--
Haven't bought XCOM2 yet, still getting creamed on XCOM.

>But when you get this great idea that, hey, there's three of them, and
>they're standing RIGHT next to each other...GRENADE!

Does this mean that they can be suckered? Toss a grenade in a corner of the map, run through cleared space, and let the Lost all cluster up, wondering what the heck happened over here?

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.

They can. It's a little bit tricky, though, because accounting for a third faction that's hostile to the other two simultaneously is something the AI is only at about 90% on. It's usually pretty good but sometimes it goes sideways.

But "distract the Lost and/or use them against Advent" is not only possible, it's supported gameplay. You can research a grenade that lures the Lost to its location when detonated, which means you can do things like have the horde swarm a pod while you leg it in the other direction.

The Lost can actually be a ton of fun. I mean, you still need to treat them with respect, because they can and will murder you if you play sloppily. But the way the game works is that they die very quick and when you kill one you get to keep shooting, so it's entirely possible to have turns where two guys rip their way through about twenty of them if you have certain "reloading is free" abilities and gear.

And in a game that's so, so often about carefully calculating one-health-bar advantages and needing multiple guys to handle a pod of three enemies in the most efficient way possible or fighting Sectopods and Andromedans that absorb godawful amounts of punishment, it is just really fucking nice to occasionally fight things that simply die when you shoot them. You pull the trigger and they fall down! How novel! It's like being on zombie vacation.

-Merc
Keep Rat

>And in a game that's so, so often about carefully calculating
>one-health-bar advantages and needing multiple guys to handle a pod of
>three enemies in the most efficient way possible or fighting Sectopods
>and Andromedans that absorb godawful amounts of punishment, it is just
>really fucking nice to occasionally fight things that simply
>die when you shoot them. You pull the trigger and they fall
>down! How novel!

BRIGADIER LETHBRIDGE-STEWART
Right, you just uh... shoot the bullets into it?

THE DOCTOR
Simple, isn't it? Just like most killings.

(I will forever regret that the Brigadier did not choose that moment to point out that in his experience, it's pretty much never that bloody simple. Although he does punch the Doctor out in reply—or, the fight choreography on the '80s show being what it was, is mysteriously able to knock him unconscious by giving him what appears to be a karate chop to the chest—so I suppose that could be taken as a different wording of the same reply. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

After having played this for a while, I can confirm that, yes, the expansion is a lot of fun, and yes, the Lost aren't quite as irritating as I was expecting, though they're really just plain zombies, far as I can tell. So far I've run into a faster variation, and a stronger and tougher variation, but...still. Zombies.

The Chosen I've been able to keep up with so far as well, though I admit to some heavy save scumming in places. At least they have stated weaknesses, though I sorta wish we had some cutscene explaining how we have any intelligence on them. As it stands we just get a splash screen every time we see them showing their buffs and debuffs.

Part of me is irritated it sort of cuts out some of the content in the DLC before War of the Chosen, but we still get the guns and whatnot at least, and some of the DLC content, like the mission added in Shen's Last Gift, is very much good riddance. (And the armor you can make from Dr. Vahlen's research subjects is still some of the stupidest looking stuff in the game. Can't even paint it a decent color.)

------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her

>The Lost can actually be a ton of fun. I mean, you still need to treat
>them with respect, because they can and will murder you if you play
>sloppily. But the way the game works is that they die very quick and
>when you kill one you get to keep shooting, so it's entirely possible
>to have turns where two guys rip their way through about twenty of
>them if you have certain "reloading is free" abilities and gear.

They keep triggering in a situation where they charge at my sniper, only to run out of time a few feet away. At which point she takes out a pistol and just slaughters them all. It's glorious.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

>They keep triggering in a situation where they charge at my sniper,
>only to run out of time a few feet away. At which point she takes out
>a pistol and just slaughters them all. It's glorious.

Yep! I never thought I'd have that much use for pistols outside snipers who specialize in them (and my one gunslinger has the Shadowkeeper), but since they don't require reloads, they're amazingly effective against the weaker Lost. Even against the stronger varieties, a grenade to soften them up is more than enough to let the pistol finish them all in one action.

------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her

> Even against the stronger
>varieties, a grenade to soften them up is more than enough to let the
>pistol finish them all in one action.
>

Even with the stronger Lost, a Reaper resistance order that seems to be either default or very high probability to insta-kill on any strength hit meant my snipers with high aim and could just go to town an any Lost in targetable range with their pistol and wipe them out, regardless if it was an 8+HP brute or 2HP dasher.

>Even with the stronger Lost, a Reaper resistance order that seems to
>be either default or very high probability to insta-kill on any
>strength hit meant my snipers with high aim and could just go to town
>an any Lost in targetable range with their pistol and wipe them out,
>regardless if it was an 8+HP brute or 2HP dasher.

Yeah, seems like I had that order from the very beginning or close to it. Always had something else I wanted more, though, I admit. (50% excavation speed, I'm looking at you.) Might do it now that I have more slots available.

------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her