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Forum Name: Mini-Stories
Topic ID: 126
#0, GA: Enterprise
Posted by Gryphon on May-23-12 at 09:24 PM
This is basically me pouring out a 40 for the Space Transportation System: You were flawed, sometimes catastrophically so, but the fact remains that you were the aerospace icon of my childhood. So long, Shuttle. --G.


Tuesday, October 12, 1999
02:12 Eastern Standard Time
NASA Parkway East (The Causeway)
John F. Kennedy Space Center
Merritt Island, Florida, Earth

Floodlit against the Florida night, the STS spacecraft stack on Pad 39B didn't look unusual. There were no outward signs that the mission it had been painstakingly, and in great secrecy, prepared to fly was in any way out of the ordinary, insofar as any space flight in the late 20th century could be described as "ordinary".

Well... there was one, but at this distance - a little more than six and a half miles from the pad - no one could make it out. Certainly there was nothing in the gross configuration of the stack to cause anyone, even the hardcore space nerds who turned out for night launches, to suspect there was anything different about this flight. Here in 1999, the journeys of the Space Transportation System had become routine, at least to the general public. Only NASA's own publicity materials (and they had been copious, but only in the last few weeks) gave any strong indication of how special this one was to be.

The first hint was in the mission's designation. It was the 96th launch of an STS orbiter, but it wasn't STS-96; thanks to the strange vagaries of the STS mission assignment system, that number had been used on the 94th mission, an International Space Station supply flight back in May. (Even more confusingly, the next mission, number 95, in July, had been STS-93.) In fact, it didn't have a proper sequence number at all, because it wasn't technically an STS mission - it was just borrowing the system's hardware. The NASA publicity documents called it "Project Concordia", and the flight was simply Concordia 1.

And as for what it was supposed to do, well...

Standing at the edge of one of the causeway crowds, a man in a loud shirt turned to the man next to him and said, "Do you believe what they say about this thing? That it's supposed to go to another solar system or somethin'?"

The one addressed, a stocky, shortish guy in an old Army field jacket, shook his head. "That's not what it's for," he said.

"What? Sure it is. It said so in that magazine," the guy in the loud shirt protested.

The man in the Army jacket eyed his interlocutor warily, sensing that the loud-shirted man had probably had too many anticipatory Schlitzes to follow any explanation he might attempt to give, but the very tall man on the other side of him seemed game.

"No, this is just a test of the technology," the tall one said. "They'll only get about as far as Jupiter. If it works, they could build a ship that could get to another solar system, but the Concordia hardware's not intended to go anywhere near that far."

The man in the loud shirt squinted at the tall guy - something he didn't like about his attitude, kind of smug, like he Knew Something and it made him happy - but before he could finish deciding whether to get belligerent about it, night turned to day several hours ahead of schedule and the whole crowd on the causeway went ooooohhhh.

The tall guy, the short guy, and the man in the loud shirt stood and watched with everyone else as the spacecraft stack rose from the pad atop an ever-expanding cone of fire and noise, slowly at first and then gathering speed until it was gone into the night, leaving behind nothing but a knotted column of white vapor dissipating slowly in the glare of the empty launch pad's floodlights. The man in the loud shirt found this so astonishing that he passed out entirely, stretching out full-length on the ground.

The tall guy turned to his shorter companion and said, "That was deeply satisfying."

The shorter guy grinned. "I'll say. I only hope the rest of it works as well."


The original plan, on which NASA engineers had wasted nearly 18 months, was to develop a brand new system, spacecraft, booster, and all. That, everyone now agreed, would never have worked in the time available. Unfortunately, the time wasted just in figuring out that it wasn't going to work might have doomed any attempt to do what it was now obvious they should've been doing all along: develop "the package" as a payload that would slot into an STS orbiter, like Spacelab or [REDACTED]. Handed this new mandate after blowing a year and a half out of the seven available chasing a dead end, the engineers realized instantly that the new approach could, would work... then put their heads in their hands and moaned as their initial calculations showed that they'd have needed the full seven years to pull it off with any margin for comfort at all.

More than once, people - some of them in fairly high places - seriously considered cheating. Anybody with Top Secret/PERIHELION clearance knew that somebody had already done most of this engineering right there on Earth. It seemed like pure folly, just a pointless PR exercise, to reinvent the wheel in this arduous fashion. Back in '94, even the President had toyed with the idea.


"Why bother doing this at all?" he asked. "Can't you just play it like The Day the Earth Stood Still? Show up, land on the South Lawn, we come in peace, I come out and shake hands, and boom, we're done. You and I are on the cover of Time and humanity enters the Galactic Age."

His visitor shook her head. "No, Mr. President, I'm sorry, but as much as that image appeals to me for sheer theater, it won't do. Not only don't I think it'll fly with the American people, let alone the rest of humanity, I know it won't fly with the galactic community. Your people need to be seen to take the first step yourselves. Now, once you have, I like your suggestion, and we can certainly do it that way... but the opening move is up to you."

The President sighed glumly, leaning back against his desk, hands in his pants pockets. "We're behind schedule and we've already had to scrap one idea entirely. Without at least getting a hint or two from your guys at Incom... " He shook his head and made a wordless pchoooo noise. "I just don't know, Your Highness."

Princess Asrial of Salusia smiled and patted him on the shoulder. "My father has faith in human ingenuity, Bill," she said. "If he didn't, he'd never have allowed Subpro to make backchannel contact with Incom years ago."


A year after that meeting, NASA's engineers would have suspected that Asrial's confidence was misplaced, had they known about her at all - because Project Concordia had gotten precisely nowhere. No clear leader had emerged, and without one, the project's engineers zigzagged wildly from one unworkable notion to the next, not knowing how the Special Equipment would even be shoehorned into an operational orbiter, much less do the rest of its job. The engine itself was ready, thanks to the genius of one man and the hard work of his dozen or so handpicked companions, but an engine alone was not going to get the mission accomplished.

At one point, in despair, the Concordia project managers even considered building a new orbiter just to avoid the problem of dealing with all the existing plumbing, and the run-in idiosyncrasies any incumbent member of the fleet would inevitably possess. That idea lasted precisely twelve hours, which was how long it took someone to dig through the files and get a rough idea of how long it would take to construct a brand new STS orbiter spaceframe from scratch.

The answer, when it came, was one of those blinding flashes of realization that make people jump out of bed in the middle of the night and grab a pen to write it down before it evanesces. The Gizmo (as its makers usually called it) had to go into an STS orbiter, but they didn't necessarily have to try and shove it into an operational one or build a brand new spaceframe. There was already a perfectly good one around, fully realized but barely used and never fitted with most of the really troublesome parts that the Concordia flight article wouldn't need anyway.

It would still be a monumental pain in the ass - but it had to be easier than starting with a blank Sheet One of 250 Zillion, didn't it?

In the end, it nearly wasn't, but what NASA, its international peers, and its web of carefully vetted contractors needed wasn't an easy design - it was a vision. And a helluva lot of money, but for once in the grim post-Apollo era, there was no problem getting hold of that. Once they had those, it was just a matter of putting in the hours. By Christmastime in '96, they had the shape of the thing defined well enough to start selecting and training the crew. By the spring of 1997, they were able to start building the infrastructure; summer 1998, to start testing the hardware - and telling the public what they were trying to do.

Not the part about paving the way for peaceful contact with an alien species, of course; most of them didn't even know themselves that that's what they were working toward. But the part about preparing the testbed for Earth's first faster-than-light engine? That part they were all about publicizing... once they were reasonably sure it was going to work.


Getting to orbit was little different than it had been on any previous successful shuttle mission. The Concordia Flight Article lacked the complicated rocket engines of her sister ships in the STS fleet, contributing her share of the takeoff thrust with advanced fusion rockets, but from the commander's seat the difference was largely academic. Many in the project office thought it said something about the occasion that that these amazing engines - which would themselves have represented a monumental advance in human aerospace technology on any other day - were given a sort of by-the-way mention some way down in the Project Concordia publicity bumf. Some speculated that they were being downplayed so because they were the principle Russian contribution to the hardware; an unworthy notion, but not an impossible one.

In any case, the ride up was as routine as such things ever got; but it was still with a real sense of satisfaction that mission commander Bob April keyed his press-to-talk and said,

"Houston, Enterprise. Ready for HMDS power-up."

"Roger, Enterprise," the voice of CAPCOM Eddie Tagorsky replied, then added a moment later, "Enterprise, you are GO for HMDS power-up."

April turned in his seat and regarded the three other members of his crew. This project was being run under the ægis of NASA, because only NASA had the resources to assemble all the hardware, and the infrastructure to support the mission; but the effort it represented, unlike Apollo, was an international one. The peoples of the planet Earth were in accord, not competition, this time. That was why it was called Project Concordia, after the Roman goddess of understanding.

As such, April was the only American astronaut in the spacecraft's crew of four. That his copilot (officially the mission's Navigation Pilot, since he himself was the Commander) was a Russian cosmonaut was not, perhaps, surprising, even given the grumbling about the fusion engines. The United States and what had been the Soviet Union had been the two chief contenders in the 20th-century space race, and it seemed only natural that they should go the last furlong of that race, in the waning days of the century, together.

Tatiana Korbolkova's presence on the mission was not merely a matter of politics, though, and the man was a fool who believed otherwise, much less mentioned that belief within earshot. She was one of Roskosmos's most experienced cosmonauts, arguably possessed the agency's best mathematical mind, and was in every respect the ideal choice for humanity's first faster-than-light navigator.

That the crew's third member, the Computer System Specialist, was English was a bit more of a surprise. Only a handful of Britons had ever flown in space, most of them under some other citizenship, and Her Majesty's Government had long had a space policy that specifically excluded manned spaceflight. As it happened, however, the world's foremost expert on the experimental technologies that lurked within the forward half of the Concordia payload was English, and so monumentally bullheaded that parliamentary reluctance was no match for her furious determination to be part of this mission... and so she was here, and April was glad of that. The back half of the payload might be where the magic happened, but it would be happening uncontrollably without the super-advanced computer systems in the front, and no one on Earth could command those systems better than their creator.

Melinda Daystrom unbuckled her harness and cocked an indulgent smile at the man seated next to her. Though no astronaut, she had taken to the preparations for this mission with the same sort of natural, instinctive grace she showed in dealing with information systems. This meant she was first in line to deal out ribbing to the fourth member of the Enterprise crew, who most assuredly hadn't.

Even now, five minutes after MECO with the cabin quiet and serene, Propulsion System Specialist Zefram Cochrane had a deathgrip on the side rails of his seat and his pasty face was stippled with sweat as he stared glassy-eyed in no particular direction. It wasn't until Melinda touched his shoulder and said, "Oi. Zed. We're there," that he started and seemed to return from the startled fugue into which the launch had placed him.

"Wha!" he said, then shook his head, took a deep breath, and said wryly, "OK! That's the least dangerous part of the mission over with, then... "

"That is what I enjoy most about you, Dr. Cochrane," said Korbolkova as she unstrapped and came back to help him out of his harness and Advanced Crew Escape Suit. "You are always so positive."

"I'm positive I wish I'd never thought of this thing," Cochrane replied, "but what're you gonna do? God and country, right?"

"You're Canadian, Doc," April reminded him.

Cochrane blinked as if he'd just remembered that. "Oh yeah!" he said. "In that case, is it too late to get outta this chickenshit outfit?"

April's eyes flicked to the settings on the comm panel, reassuring himself that they weren't on VOX. He had decided very early on in his association with Cochrane that at no time would there be a hot mic to Houston in any spacecraft under April's command that he was aboard. Particularly on this mission, with the entire world listening. Then he grinned, reminding himself for the thousandth time to lighten up - When am I ever gonna make the first human FTL flight again? - and said, "I'm afraid so, unless you want to walk home."

Cochrane gave a put-upon sigh, interrupted by a sputtering noise as Korbolkova dragged his ACES neck seal over his head. "Oh well. I guess I better make the best of it, then." He zipped himself into a flight coverall, dug his ratty old lucky Jays cap out of his locker, rammed it down backward on his head, gave it a couple of extra tugs to make sure it wasn't going to float away, and then said, "Well, whaddaya say, Mel? Let's go see if the VAB guys broke the Gizmo."

Ten minutes later the two scientists were on the orbiter's lower deck, strapped loosely into a couple of rear-facing jump seats erected forward of the control consoles for the payload. Vast and complicated arrangements that made the flight controls upstairs look like the controls on a VCR by comparison, these had been painstakingly and professionally installed, but their design retained a distinctly homebrew flavor. This was a legacy of the fact that Cochrane and Daystrom had built the original, nonflying, proof-of-concept version by themselves in a warehouse in Calgary. NASA, Roskosmos, and ESA technicians had built this "production" version, but there were still quite a number of parts inside the machinery abaft the bulkhead that the two had made and assembled with their own four hands.

The advantage of this was that, however crocky the layout might look to anyone else, the two who were destined to operate it knew it like the backs of their hands. During the training process for this flight, April - who was not just mission commander but in fact Commander Robert April, USN - had remarked darkly that Daystrom and Cochrane required adult supervision. He had only half-jokingly recommended that a fifth crew member be added, in the form of a third military-trained astronaut to ride on the lower deck with them and make sure there wasn't any horseplay. Now, though, it was with a cool and brisk efficiency that would have startled pretty much anyone who knew them that the two eccentric geniuses worked their controls, bringing systems online and reporting their status to each other, the stream of impenetrable jargon flowing in quiet, businesslike tones.

Listening to them with half an ear on the intercom, April found himself smiling slightly. For all his exasperation at their tendency toward civilian grabassery - "the payload specialists from hell," one of his colleagues had called them - he'd grown fond of the scientists during the run-up to the mission. It was impossible not to like Daystrom, who was the calmest, most laid-back owner of three doctorates April had ever encountered; and most of Cochrane's character faults were (April had to admit) held in common with many astronauts, chief among them lechery, a congenital inability to take things entirely seriously, and an outstanding capacity for strong drink.

None of those three traits was in evidence now as he came on the intercom and reported briskly, "OK, Bob, everything looks good down here. The reactor's online and in the green, output at idle. All the motivator's self-tests show normal. Linkages and flow capacitors are good. I'm ready when you are."

"Dr. Daystrom?" April asked.

"Monotronic systems online and stable," Daystrom replied. "Backup circuits on standby. Ready for program entry."

April thumbed his press-to-talk. "Houston, Enterprise. We're ready for navigational prestage."

"Roger, Enterprise," Tagorsky's voice responded. Then, a second later, "Enterprise, you are GO for prestage."

April turned to Korbokova. "Looks like you're up, Tania," he said with a grin.

Korbolkova nodded and switched on the panel to her right. "Navigation system online," she said. Pressing her own PTT, she announced, "Houston, Enterprise. I am ready for uplink."

"Roger, Enterprise, uplink commencing." There was a pause as a ground station fed the navigation computer the very most up-to-date available information on local conditions that might affect FTL navigation: the orbital dynamics of nearby bodies, plotted locations of potential obstacles, all the complicated variables involved in jumping to hyperspace this close to a planet that had not, it had to be admitted, been as tidy as it could've been during its first fumbling half-century of space exploration.

One day, Korbolkova knew, all this information would have to be updated aboard ship, kept constantly current as position and conditions changed, but right now the sensor and computer technology simply didn't exist. Even Dr. Daystrom's stupendously powerful monotronic stacks back in the payload bay had all they could do, at this size, to store and utilize the summarized information now being beamed up from Houston. The computers down there that had actually prepared this summary took up a building nearly half the size of the Vehicle Assembly Building at Kennedy.

"Enterprise, Houston, uplink complete. How show you?" Tagorsky asked.

"... Roger, Houston, uplink confirmed," Korbolkova replied. "Loading course plot for test range alpha." Her fingers flying over the keys of her station, the cosmonaut worked steadily through a huge mass of information flowing across three screens at once, making sure it was all flowing downstairs into the right buffers and registers of the Gizmo's control computers. Not until she had received nineteen separate positive status reports did she nod with satisfaction, press one last key to commit everything to semipermanent storage, and then turn to April and report with a faint smile, "Course computed and locked, Captain."

April gave her a self-deprecating nod. "Thank you, Number One," he said, then thumbed his PTT again and reported simply, "Houston, Enterprise. We're ready."

There was a brief pause. April pictured the flight controllers in the Mission Operations Control Room having one last round-the-horn, checking that all their telemetry agreed with what the crew were telling them, before giving the word:

"Enterprise, Houston. You are GO for FTL."

"Roger, Houston, GO for FTL." April released the button - the intercom had hot mics, even if communications to the ground did not - and declared, "All right, Doctors. It's your show. Let's make history."

Then, with only a moment's hesitation, he reached to his panel and threw the switch that transferred control of the ship downstairs to Daystrom's computers.

"I have control," Daystrom reported calmly, like it was just another day in the simulator. "Positioning spacecraft for FTL jump." Enterprise's RCS jets started to pulse in a very precisely orchestrated sequence, swinging the spacecraft's nose away from the Earth. "We're in position. Inertial dampers to full power. Stand by, motivator unit."

"Bringing motivator unit to full power," Cochrane concurred. He flipped a couple of switches, got one green light while the other stayed red, and thumped the panel with the heel of his hand. The other light turned green. "Everything looks good." A low hum filled the cabin as the ship's spaceframe picked up increased vibrations from the fusion reactor - still another revolution that had gone all but unnoticed in the shadow of the giant advance it was enabling. Gauges on both panels and up in the cockpit responded, running up to the first of two prepainted green marks, then hovered there.

Cochrane tightened his straps and turned to his colleague. "Ready, Dr. Daystrom?" he asked.

"Always, Dr. Cochrane," she replied. "Hit it."

Cochrane turned back to his panel, muttered, "I hope to Christ this works!" and then pressed two buttons. Much to the surprise of April, Korbolkova, and indeed pretty much all of humanity, one of them filled the cabin, the intercom, and the air-to-ground comm channel - for no man could keep Zefram Cochrane from getting on the radio if he so desired! - with a harsh vocodered voice and a thumping beat.

/* The Beastie Boys
"Intergalactic"
Hello Nasty (1998) */

The other cut out the final interlocks and engaged the full reality-bending power of the Concordia Systems Payload, AKA the Gizmo, AKA the Hyperspace Motivator Drive System. For a few seconds nothing seemed to happen; then the reactor's low hum kicked into a higher register as the motivator unit began to draw its full operational power, the relevant gauges ticked up to the second mark, and there was a sensation peculiarly like all the cosmos holding its breath.

On the flight deck, Bob April's jaw dropped as he saw the stars filling Enterprise's cockpit windows smear into elongated lines, like a time-lapse photo of the desert sky at night, except centered on his own point of view.

In Houston and around the world, MCA declared to the entire human race that if it battled him he would revile... and then there was silence as the transmitter conveying his challenge left the universe.

A blue light winked on at the top of Cochrane's panel.

"Lightspeed!" he cried, throwing up his hands as if he'd scored a touchdown. He and Daystrom leaned against their straps and shared a high-five.

"Confirmed," said Korbolkova, her eyes huge as she wrenched them away from the view out the windows and consulted her instruments. "We are in hyperspace, on course at factor two point five."

Daystrom flipped a few switches, observed some readouts, and said, "Monotronic systems stable. All readings normal."

Cochrane looked at his own gauges. "Reactor's nominal, motivator's... " He smirked. "Purring like a kitten." He pressed a key. "My board is locked, I'm hands-off 'til MOCO."

Korbolkova's eyes flicked to the corner of her navigation display. "Motivator cutoff in 360 seconds... mark."

April gazed out the window in front of him for a moment longer, then said, "Dr. Cochrane... Dr. Daystrom... would you come up here for a moment, please?"

A pause. "Why?" Cochrane answered. "We need to be here for the jump back to realspace."

"I know," April said. "So make it quick."

Cochrane emerged from the ladder tunnel to the lower deck a moment later, looking puzzled. As he used the empty crew seats to pull himself up between the pilots, with Daystrom right behind him, he asked, "What do you need - ... oh wow."

There were no windows on Enterprise's lower crew deck; no one had thought they would be of any use, and windows were harder to engineer, so they'd been omitted from the original design. Cochrane and Daystrom had never considered that there'd be much of anything to see on this flight either... but now, gazing past the pilots into the whirling blue chaos of hyperspace, they acknowledged that they had been utterly wrong.

"Would you look at that," Daystrom murmured.

"Zowie," Cochrane agreed.

They stared at it in rapt attention for a minute or so; then Cochrane seemed to remember himself. Tagging the commander's shoulder, he said sincerely, "Thanks for not letting us miss that, Bob," and then turned to head back downstairs.

"Thanks for making it possible for us to see it, Dr. Cochrane," April replied.


Most of the crowd which had observed the launch was still there, on the Causeway, when the PA speakers along the roadside crackled and the Voice of NASA announced,

"Ladies and gentlemen, you may be pleased to know that Enterprise has just emerged from hyperspace 400,000 miles beyond the orbit of Jupiter. They report that everything is working perfectly."

A cheer eclipsing even that which had met the launch rose up at this news. Down in front, the man in the army jacket turned to his very tall colleague and offered a hand, which the tall man shook.

"And we didn't even have to cheat," said Gryphon. "That ought to do it."

MegaZone nodded. "Even if the Gizmo broke down now, which it won't, they've got provisions enough to make it back the long way." Surveying the crowd and the jam of parked cars on the Causeway, he added mock-ruefully, "As it is, they'll probably be home before we are."

Nineteen days after the flight of Enterprise, Princess Asrial of Salusia made the official First Contact of an extraterrestrial species with the planet Earth - not on the White House lawn, but rather at Castle Clinton, on the southern tip of Manhattan.

As many had feared, Earthborn humanity's transition from solipsistic single-planet species to galactic citizen was not altogether smooth. Less than two years later, a shocking act of resistance to that leap into the future would take place within sight of the fort. The ultimate outcome, though, was never in doubt, and within five years Earth's United Nations were collectively a member of the United Galactica. The planet has never looked back.

"Enterprise" - a Golden Age mini-story by Benjamin D. Hutchins
special to the Eyrie Productions Discussion Forum
© 2012 Eyrie Productions, Unlimited


#1, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by A Vile Gangster on May-23-12 at 10:34 PM
In response to message #0
Bravo, sir. Of course Enterprise was going to be the hull used to smash the FTL problem into gibbets. When I started reading, there was never any doubt. ;)

AND you managed to squeeze one more nod to the Boys of Beastie into the piece. fantastic!

----
Now Playing:
Alex Clare -- Too Close (Lateness of the Hour, 2012)

You know I'm not one to break promises
I don't want to hurt you but I need to breathe
At the end of it all, you're still my best friend
But there's something inside that I need to release
Which way is right, which way is wrong
How do I say that I need to move on
You know we're headed separate ways...

< THIS SPACE FOR RENT >


#2, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Pasha on May-23-12 at 11:47 PM
In response to message #0
>Princess Asrial of Salusia smiled and patted him on the shoulder. "My
>father has faith in human ingenuity, Bill," she said. "If he didn't,
>he'd never have allowed Subpro to make backchannel contact with Incom
>years ago."

I gotta ask: Did the president try to be the first earthman to get some alien strange? It seems in character.

>

/* The Beastie Boys
>"Intergalactic"
>Hello Nasty (1998) */

Oh, Zephram.

--
-Pasha
I invented warp drive, whatta ya got?
I'm the Norse God of Mecha.
You win, kid.


#8, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by McFortner on May-24-12 at 05:54 PM
In response to message #2
>I gotta ask: Did the president try to be the first earthman to get
>some alien strange? It seems in character.
>

Asrial would have fed him his arms if he had tried. ;^)

Michael


Michael C. Fortner
"Maxim 37: There is no such thing as "overkill".
There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload".


#9, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Gryphon on May-24-12 at 07:37 PM
In response to message #8
>>I gotta ask: Did the president try to be the first earthman to get
>>some alien strange? It seems in character.
>>
>
>Asrial would have fed him his arms if he had tried. ;^)

Besides, it's not like we're talking about a Congressional page or something here. This is a foreign dignitary, first in line to the throne of a monarchy where that still means something. From another planet or not, there are lines I don't think even Bill would've crossed.

Anyway, he'd have been... some time too late to claim that distinction. Max Sterling had boldly gone where no man had gone before at least a year before the Oval Office scene in this piece.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#10, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by The Traitor on May-25-12 at 05:19 AM
In response to message #9
"I did not have sexual relations with that fuzz-covered alien princess."

---
"Yeah, I'm definitely going to hell/But I'll have all the best stories to tell" -- Frank Turner, The Ballad of Me and My Friends


#3, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Zox on May-24-12 at 00:23 AM
In response to message #0
Oh, wow.

Robert April, first commanding officer of the starship Enterprise.

That, sir, is most excellent.


#4, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Offsides on May-24-12 at 10:22 AM
In response to message #0
Beautiful, just beautiful. A very fitting tribute.

One question - what was the incident that happened 2 years after this? Or is that something for a later story?

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


#6, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Gryphon on May-24-12 at 11:59 AM
In response to message #4
>One question - what was the incident that happened 2 years after this?

September 11, 2001. The context is different (it happened against the backdrop of the Post-Contact Wars, with strong overtones of human separatism), but the outcome was much the same.

In Manhattan Trilogy, there's mention of the Interstellar Friendship Tower, which Steve Rogers describes as "Earth's first official point of entry for offworld visitors. Humanity's hand extended in friendship to the entire galaxy, from right here in this city." It stands where the World Trade Center once was, and its function is not a coincidence.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#7, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Offsides on May-24-12 at 03:13 PM
In response to message #6
Ahh, gotcha. I should have figured that out, but given that UF started way before 9/11 happened, I don't think of it in that context...

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


#5, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by twipper on May-24-12 at 11:02 AM
In response to message #0
That was a very pleasant Thursday morning workplace diversion.

Brian


#11, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by SilenRevered on May-25-12 at 11:39 AM
In response to message #0
LAST EDITED ON May-25-12 AT 11:40 AM (EDT)
 
Ah, background info. It's so nice to have.
A question though. With Cochrane living on through the FI era, can we assume that he is a Detian? Or did he have some kind of FTL accident flinging him into the future?

#12, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Bushido on May-25-12 at 12:09 PM
In response to message #11
Or he's just too stubborn to get old and die.

#13, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by The Traitor on May-25-12 at 01:16 PM
In response to message #12
One would assume it's the standard explanation of how C20 humans show up in UF - Project Hero rearing its giant, beautiful head. Nopony said its scope was limited to -real- people, after all.

---
"Yeah, I'm definitely going to hell/But I'll have all the best stories to tell" -- Frank Turner, The Ballad of Me and My Friends


#14, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Kokuten on May-26-12 at 10:03 AM
In response to message #13
Well isn't that a fascinating little Faustian slip.

--
Kokuten Daysleeper
RCW #13013
(Insert Witticism Here)


#16, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Gryphon on May-26-12 at 11:37 AM
In response to message #13
>One would assume it's the standard explanation of how C20 humans show
>up in UF - Project Hero rearing its giant, beautiful head.

In Cochrane's case it's more likely that he was recruited directly post-Contact, rather than as part of Hero. He was obviously still on Earth and working in relative obscurity, apart for scientific circles, before the flight of Enterprise, after all.

Oddly, Star Trek had its own explanation for Cochrane's unusual longevity as long ago as 1967. So if you've a particular attachment to that episode, you could take it that he has the appearance of the older, scruffier Cochrane in "Enterprise", "Metamorphosis" happens to him sometime in the intervening centuries, his adventures developing and popularizing warp drive come after he eventually leaves Gamma Canaris, and by the time we see him in FI he's reached roughly the same age he was at First Contact again.

Or you can take the more straightforward view that the WDF gave the recruiting pitch to the whole crew of Concordia 1 and Cochrane, at least, signed up; the Order of the Eternal would presumably not be far behind for independently inventing hyperdrive and providing the lever needed to catapult Earth into the Galactic Age. Sure, it had been thought of before - maybe a dozen times in recorded history, all around the galaxy - but that doesn't make it any less of an achievement when it's done in a vacuum, so to speak.

Either interpretation works for me.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#28, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Nathan on May-27-12 at 06:39 PM
In response to message #16
It occurs to me that Cochrane is probably the accepted expert in superluminal technology in the known galaxy. Given the age of hyperspace travel, he's quite possibly the only member of the 'blind jump club' still alive, and he was team lead on two of the three other methods known to the public. Talk about a resume.

#29, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by The Traitor on May-28-12 at 08:20 AM
In response to message #28
This is pretty evident in the stories - particularly the trial in Manhunt. Cochrane's calling-out of the prosecutor's bullshit argument would not have carried nearly as much weight if he'd been some schmoe looking for a roof to keep out of the rain and not a boffin of epic proportions.

---
"Yeah, I'm definitely going to hell/But I'll have all the best stories to tell" -- Frank Turner, The Ballad of Me and My Friends

I wanna hear more about that prosecutor, though. He's probably a good guy, insofar as a lawyer can be, who got lumbered with a brief that nobody else would even countenance but tried his best to defend the Butcher because dammit, that's just what you do. Which I think is criteria for at least a walk-on role as a good guy in UF. We know he's a good lawyer - from a story perspective it was kinda necessary for the piece's tension for him to be at least competent - and I can imagine him just sitting in a grimy bar on a planet somewhere, trying to drink away the shame, when Zoner or some such creature plops down beside him for one of this universe's famous Redemption Chinwags. And how in the blue fuck did this idea get so long?


#30, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Nathan on May-29-12 at 11:04 AM
In response to message #29
*rereads said*

...Hmm.

Yeah, point.


#31, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Star Ranger4 on May-30-12 at 02:22 AM
In response to message #29
>I wanna hear more about that prosecutor, though. He's probably
>a good guy, insofar as a lawyer can be, who got lumbered with a brief
>that nobody else would even countenance but tried his best to defend
>the Butcher because dammit, that's just what you do. Which I
>think is criteria for at least a walk-on role as a good guy in UF. We
>know he's a good lawyer - from a story perspective it was kinda
>necessary for the piece's tension for him to be at least competent -
>and I can imagine him just sitting in a grimy bar on a planet
>somewhere, trying to drink away the shame, when Zoner or some such
>creature plops down beside him for one of this universe's famous
>Redemption Chinwags. And how in the blue fuck did this idea get so
>long?

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Nogura

Flag officer, not necessarily a lawyer. In fact, I get the impression that Starfleet doesnt have a JAG corps. The rest still stands, however.


#32, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by jhosmer1 on May-30-12 at 09:48 AM
In response to message #31
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Judge_Advocate_General

Well, apparently the canonical Starfleet does. I remember them being used in "The Measure of a Man" TNG episode, where Data fights in a courtroom for the right to refuse a risky disassembly.


#33, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Gryphon on May-30-12 at 10:02 AM
In response to message #32
>http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Judge_Advocate_General
>
>Well, apparently the canonical Starfleet does. I remember them being
>used in "The Measure of a Man" TNG episode, where Data fights in a
>courtroom for the right to refuse a risky disassembly.

Strangely, Picard does not cite the standing precedent, Johnny 5 v. Newton Crosby Ph.D. et al. (1986), in that episode. It would have sorted the whole thing immediately, because the ruling was crystal clear: no disassemble.

--G.
I guess that's how you can tell Picard's not a lawyer.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#34, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Bushido on May-30-12 at 10:35 AM
In response to message #33
The best argument in Data's favor that I've ever come across was something to the effect of first asking if the Enterprises main computer, in theory much smarter than the people present, would be allowed to enlist in Starfleet. Then asking if Data's cat, a living biological organism, would be allowed to enlist in Starfleet. Then, once receiving a negative response to both questions, stated that since both biological life and machine intelligence were not qualifiers for enlisting in Starfleet, that by allowing Data to enlist, they had already granted him the full rights of a sentient being and therefore the scientist could not dismantle him against his will.

If I find the fanfic that was in, I'll edit in a link back to it later.


#15, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by CdrMike on May-26-12 at 11:17 AM
In response to message #0
Growing up as both a Trek fan and a space buff, this story hit all the right notes. Couple of cosmic ironies that spring to mind involve Enterprise and her commander. Enterprise herself because, as a result of being Earth's first FTL-capable spacecraft, she'd have pride of place at the Smithsonian, instead of being shipped off to the Intrepid in NYC. And Robert April because, in the old ST Encyclopedia and Chronology, the picture used for his entry is that of Gene Roddenberry in the 2250s-era Starfleet uniform.


#17, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Mister Fnord on May-26-12 at 04:55 PM
In response to message #15
>Enterprise herself because, as a result
>of being Earth's first FTL-capable spacecraft, she'd have pride of
>place at the Smithsonian, instead of being shipped off to the Intrepid
>in NYC.

That brings up a kinda interesting "Where Are They Now?" question. (Well, okay, it's interesting if you're a shuttle nerd like me.) Probably went to various museums around the country, then got destroyed in one or another of the stupid damn World Wars. Be nice if one or more of 'em was still kicking in the FI/NF period, though.

--
Mr. Fnord, OV-102 fanboi 4 lyfe


#18, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by A Vile Gangster on May-26-12 at 05:57 PM
In response to message #17
If I had my druthers, I'd give the STS system the old RetroTech treatment. A hyper-capable, extended-range shuttle would be the hottest vacation ride imaginable...even as hot as a Winnebago with wings.

----
Now Playing:
Bon Jovi -- Raise Your Hands (Slippery When Wet, 1986)

Only ONE MAN would DARE give me the RASPBERRY...LOOONE STAAAAR! *THUD*

< THIS SPACE FOR RENT >


#19, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Gryphon on May-26-12 at 07:46 PM
In response to message #17
>That brings up a kinda interesting "Where Are They Now?" question.

OV-098 PathfinderPartially destroyed on ground in the World War IV/North American War sack of Huntsville, Alabama, where it had been on display for many years. Scheduled for restoration.
OV-099 ChallengerDestroyed in flight: 1986.01.28. Interestingly, there is a replica of OV-099 in the Imperial Klingon Space Flight Museum on Klinzhai Prime, in the wing whose title is usually translated, The Conquest of Space Must Be Paid For in the Blood of Heroes.
OV-101 EnterpriseOn display: Smithsonian Institution's Udvar-Hazy Center near Washington, DC. Facility captured and recaptured several times during the North American War, but never seriously damaged.
OV-102 ColumbiaIn private hands. Has had by far the most colorful career of the STS orbiters; currently to be found in Hangar 27 at Mathews Memorial Spaceport in New Avalon.
OV-103 DiscoveryOn display: John F. Kennedy Memorial Spaceport, Merritt Island, Florida, Earth.
OV-104 AtlantisOn display: Vulcan Science Academy, Vulcan.
OV-105 EndeavourOn display: Cheryl A. Zukowsky Flight Test Center, Muroc III.
OV-106 EnduranceOn display: Earth-Salusia Friendship Center, H.M. Naval Station Salu II.

A few notes:

- Enterprise went on to make the first flights by an Earth-built spacecraft to another star system, visiting Centauri Prime in 2002, Vulcan in 2004, and Andoria in 2007.

- After Contact, Columbia, Atlantis and Endeavour were refitted for long-range in-system exploration. Through much of the 21st century, they carried out the surveys that would eventually lead to the terraforming of much of the Solar system. Columbia later went on to have numerous other, less officially sanctioned adventures.

- Endurance was launched - having taken four years to build, about 20% from spares and 80% new construction - in 2010 to undertake the first mission by an Earth-built ship to go outside the Centaurus sector, to Salusia. She had a faster hyperdrive than the rest of the class (factor 1.5) and considerably greater fuel and provisions range, along with the most advanced computers ever fitted to an STS orbiter.

- Because they were registered for and participated in interstellar spaceflights, both Enterprise and Endurance are entitled to the designation "starship" and the name prefix "UES" (United Earth Ship).

- The only member of the fleet still in its original orbiter configuration is Discovery, which, as NASA's most-traveled spacecraft, was retired and preserved in that state deliberately to help show off the agency's pre-Contact history to visitors.

- There are persistent conspiracy theories that Enterprise (variously) is hidden somewhere in the Zeta Cygni system, was lost in a flight mishap that was covered up, or was taken away and destroyed at Largo's order during the War of Corporate Occupation, and that the one on display at the Udvar-Hazy Center is a fake. No evidence to substantiate these assertions has ever been found.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#20, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Offsides on May-26-12 at 10:16 PM
In response to message #19
Somehow, this is the first time I've every heard about OV-098. Thank you. The replica Challenger tidbit is very appropriate, and I can totally see them respecting the Challenger 7 and their craft.

And I'd love to hear more about Columbia's adventures :)

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


#22, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Rabe on May-26-12 at 10:21 PM
In response to message #20
LAST EDITED ON May-26-12 AT 10:21 PM (EDT)
 
Space camps Huntsville, campus holds their graduation ceremonies under Pathfinders wings. Still one of the proudest moments of my life even this far gone. top 2 of 500 or so

#23, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by StClair on May-26-12 at 11:24 PM
In response to message #20
One further imagines that nearby are models or images with placards for Soyuz 11 and Apollo 1.

#24, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Gryphon on May-26-12 at 11:53 PM
In response to message #23
LAST EDITED ON May-26-12 AT 11:54 PM (EDT)
 
>One further imagines that nearby are models or images with placards
>for Soyuz 11 and Apollo 1.

Indeed - and there's a special corner for Soyuz 1, because to the Klingons - at least those who are exo-space-exploration nerd enough to know about any of them - the greatest of Earth's pre-Contact spaceflight heroes is Colonel Vladimir Mikhailovich Komarov, the first Earthman to perish during an actual space mission.

Komarov may have been the bravest man who ever lived. Like almost everyone else involved with the Soyuz program, he knew the spacecraft wasn't ready, that the launch date imposed by the Party bosses for Soyuz 1 was a pointless piece of symbolism, and that the mission was a death sentence. At one point one of his colleagues found him off by himself quietly weeping for his fate. Asked why he didn't refuse the mission, he replied, "If I refuse, they'll send Gagarin."

And so he went, and as he knew it would, Soyuz killed him - but not easily. He fought like a tiger all the way, overcoming potentially fatal glitch after glitch until finally the flawed parachute system got him - cursing the spacecraft, the program, and the venal, petty bureaucrats who condemned him to his hideous fate all the way to the ground.

Now that, the space nerds of Klinzhai Prime assert, was a warrior.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#26, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Bushido on May-27-12 at 10:15 AM
In response to message #24
I'm not usually one for poetry, but I'd never heard about Colonel Komarov before, and after reading this I couldn't help but think of this poem.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
-Dylan Thomas


#27, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by CdrMike on May-27-12 at 02:43 PM
In response to message #24
Now I've sort of got this minds-eye image of what such a place would look like, all dressed up in the amber and dark red hues we're familiar with. Above the entrance, below the welcome sign in Klingonese, resides the only words written in an Earth language: Ad Astra Per Aspera. All the other displays are, in contrast to what outside cultures would expect, impeccably translated from the original Earth documents into clear & concise Klingonese, a show of the dedication by the nerds running the place.

Large replicas of Apollo 1, Soyuz 1 & 11, and Challenger dominate the room, with pictures and placards around extolling the honor and glory of the Earthmen who died flying them. Another wall dedicated to the Earthmen like Gagarin, who died honorably training for other spaceflights.

A smaller section to those "near misses," most famously Apollo 13, where Earth warriors fought valiantly to push their vessels in ways the designers hadn't anticipated in order to return safely. Their efforts, though honorable, did not see them die in glory and thus are not as studied amongst Klingon space nerds.

And finally a small kiosk dedicated to the "Lost Cosmonauts," the mysterious stories of Soviet Earthmen who died in the pursuit of glory, only to be erased from history by dishonorable bureaucrats.


#41, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Gryphon on Jul-03-21 at 01:37 AM
In response to message #24
>And so he went, and as he knew it would, Soyuz killed him - but not
>easily. He fought like a tiger all the way, overcoming potentially
>fatal glitch after glitch until finally the flawed parachute system
>got him - cursing the spacecraft, the program, and the venal, petty
>bureaucrats who condemned him to his hideous fate all the way to the
>ground.

I was just rereading this thread, and there's something that I either didn't know yet when I wrote the post above, or neglected to include for some reason:

Before launch, Komarov demanded that his remains be displayed in an open casket at the state funeral he knew he would soon receive, so that the bureaucrats in Moscow--whom he knew would all be required by Party protocol to attend--could not avoid bearing witness to what they had done to him. Somewhat astonishingly, the people responsible for his funeral did as he asked.

I've seen footage of the funeral in a documentary about the Soviet space program, and it would've been jake if the filmmakers had included a warning before they showed it... but they did not. Given the circumstances of the crash, you wouldn't think there would have been anything recognizable left of him, but you would be wrong. I would advise you not to go find that footage.

Helluva statement for the man to make, though. When Komarov objected to the mission timetable at the meeting where it was announced, one of those same Party flunkies called him a coward. I bet I know which one of them left the room first at the funeral.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#42, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Croaker on Jul-08-21 at 04:48 PM
In response to message #24

>
>And so he went, and as he knew it would, Soyuz killed him - but not
>easily. He fought like a tiger all the way, overcoming potentially
>fatal glitch after glitch until finally the flawed parachute system
>got him - cursing the spacecraft, the program, and the venal, petty
>bureaucrats who condemned him to his hideous fate all the way to the
>ground.
>
>Now that, the space nerds of Klinzhai Prime assert, was a
>warrior.
>

Goddamnit, Hutchins, get your damn Onion-cutter Ninjas out of my office so I can wipe my eyes.


#25, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by JFerio on May-27-12 at 09:07 AM
In response to message #20
>Somehow, this is the first time I've every heard about OV-098. Thank
>you. The replica Challenger tidbit is very appropriate, and I can
>totally see them respecting the Challenger 7 and their craft.

As I recall, Pathfinder was a test article, much like Enterprise (flight testing article) and where Challenger (structural test article) started... specifically so that the crew of the stacking team had a vehicle of similar weight and shape to practice with until a real shuttle was ready. As such, it's an important part of the fleet, even though it was never meant to fly (unlike Enterprise, which was originally to be converted to space rating, it was ultimately cheaper and easier to finish Challenger's spaceframe).


#35, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Prince Charon on May-30-12 at 05:26 PM
In response to message #20
I remember reading about it, but it's been a while.

Great story, Gryphon.

�They planned their campaigns just as you might make a splendid piece of harness. It looks very well; and answers very well; until it gets broken; and then you are done for. Now I made my campaigns of ropes. If anything went wrong, I tied a knot; and went on.�
-- Arthur Wellesley, First Duke of Wellington


#21, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Rabe on May-26-12 at 10:18 PM
In response to message #19
Thanks G now I'm wasting mental bandwidth plotting out a "National Treasure" style treasure hunt that uses the heist of the OV-101 as the action center piece of ACT 2.


#36, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by eriktown on Jun-01-12 at 01:18 AM
In response to message #0
LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-12 AT 01:19 AM (EDT)
 
I was inspired to watch the series for the first time by this post (having never watched more than TNG and the first few episodes of DS9 for various reasons, before). I'm enjoying it immensely, but I'm a little amused/disappointed by the fact that they seem to be very specifically revisiting certain ubiquitous plots in the space opera genre. There's a 'Magnificant Seven' plot, and in the case of 'Dawn' in season two, there's a depressingly obvious 'Enemy Mine' subtext.

In short, I feel like Enterprise really wants to be a great semi-hard-SF show, but its plots are simply recapitulating well-known ideas.

(It does so enjoyably! I'm just trying to say it's not <i>new</i>.)


#37, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Gryphon on Jun-21-12 at 03:40 PM
In response to message #0
LAST EDITED ON Jan-28-13 AT 06:02 PM (EST)
 
Now available in MP3. Slightly tinny because I had the sampling rate set a bit too low, but couldn't be arsed to rerecord. I agree that the service around here is slapdash at best. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#38, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Gryphon on Jan-28-13 at 00:10 AM
In response to message #37
>Slightly tinny because I had the sampling rate set a bit too low, but
>couldn't be arsed to rerecord. I agree that the service around here
>is slapdash at best. :)

However, I have repaired, or at least improved, the horrifying rec level problems. The Quindar tones will probably not blow your ears clean off your head now. (Have to kind of wonder why nobody said anything about that.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#39, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Mephron on Jan-28-13 at 01:34 AM
In response to message #38
Well, after the first one, you couldn't tell...

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"


#40, RE: GA: Enterprise
Posted by Gryphon on Jan-28-13 at 06:03 PM
In response to message #39
>Well, after the first one, you couldn't tell...

Yeah, yeah.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.