(To help settle a few things from the Misc board...)

Faster Than Light, or FTL: how fast you need to travel if you want to get to another planet within your lifetime.

There are quite a few means by which the speed of light can be exceeded, but putting a brick on the throttle isn't one of them. All of the known methods involve some sort of 'cheat' by which a ship can travel a distance faster than light could while never actually attaining lightspeed. Listed here are the methods you, as a hitchhiker, are most likely to encounter.

(1) HYPERDRIVE

Hyperdrive transit is the oldest known method of starfaring. The Transformers have had hyperdrive for so long that their records do not record who discovered the hyperspace shunt. The modern hyperdrive can be traced to Corellia, where designs for the engine were preserved after the final fall of the Santovasku and Atlantean civilizations. Even today, it is far and away the most common means of cheating the lightspeed barrier.

The basic principle behind hyperdrive is the use of hyperspace- a dimension of spacetime within our universe in which distances are shorter than within normal spacetime. The hyperdrive boosts a ship up from realspace into hyperspace and propels it to its destination. The main limitation to speed for hyperdrive is not engine power per se (although that is a consideration) but the hyperdrive's astrogation computer and the mapping of the space being travelled through. Realspace objects cast mass shadows into hyperspace, and crashing into a shadow is just as fatal as crashing into the realspace object in question. Well-mapped hyperspace routes, like the Corellian Run, can be traversed in hours; ill-mapped routes, or routes with multiple hazards like the Earth-Zeta Cygni route, usually take days.

One of the more unusual features of hyperdrive is that standard sensors do not operate there. Except for the highly sensitive gravitic sensors required to fly safely, the usual sensor package can't see outside the environmental field generated by the hyperdrive. This means that a vessel in hyperspace is practically untrackable, although it is possible to -extrapolate- a ship's course based on its entry vector into hyperspace.

It is very easy to get work as a hyperdrive engineer on a ship as a means of thumbing a ride. For more information on the care and feeding of hyperdrives, check the Hyperdrive chapter of the Guide.

(2) WARP DRIVE

Warp drive was first discovered by the Vulcans somewhere around the 10th Century Standard Calendar. Due to the overwhelming expense and hazards involved, however, only Vulcans made much use of the drive until the Wedge Defense Force began designing starships and even starfighters around the engine. Today, warp drive is used primarily by military starfleets or mass-transit carriers such as the warp-jet airline industry.

Warp drive works by using the natural effects of sending massive amounts of energy through dilithium crystals to form a complex wave in spacetime. The warp field bends spacetime around the ship- while causing no gravitational stress on the ship itself. The ship rides the wave, apparently at rest within the warp field while spacetime is pulled past it at hyperluminal speeds.

The major drawback behind warp drive is expense. Leaving aside the fact that dilithium crystals fracture or decrystallize under prolonged strain and require frequent replacement, warp speed itself is incredibly energy-intensive. Small ships, such as the warp jets almost ubiquitous within the Core Sectors, can sustain warp with only a fusion plant, but larger ships require the power of matter-antimatter reactors to overcome the greater inertia of the larger ship. (Warp jets lie close to the upper end of this equation, by the way, and no fusion-powered ship can exceed Warp Six in any case.) Antimatter is incredibly dangerous and expensive, even in the tiny amounts used by warp-powered vessels. There are also isolated cases of warp mishaps which have resulted in temporal or even dimensional displacement of the ships involved. As such, very few companies have offered warp vessels for private citizens to use, although such a vessel would allow a hitchhiker to travel across the Federation in slightly more than a day's flying.

(3) FOLD DRIVE

Possibly the most ballyhooed means of FTL transit, fold or jump drive is an order of magnitude more expensive than warp drive. As such, only the largest of warships use it, but these warships are the ones which make the news, the documentaries, the movies, and the toy stores.

In theory, fold drive is very simple, and its range is almost unlimited. The fold drive makes two points in spacetime coexistent, allowing the ship to travel from one to the other -instantly- and -without moving.- The power required to do this, however, is GIGANTIC, and the means used to generate it are hidden under so many levels of military security we couldn't find any engineers drunk enough to tell us how it's done.

The main problems with fold drive are that it takes a few minutes to make a jump, and that you -must- know where your destination is, -precisely.-

(4) METASPACE

Metaspace was discovered in 2386 as part of the ongoing effort to find faster and cheaper means of FTL transport. In the twenty years since, it has leaped into prominence as the new 'hot' method of travelling the galaxy. The core of its popularity is the fact that, unlike the other three methods mentioned above,
metaspace travel does -not- require a special engine; to quote the promotional brochure from the Federation Metaspace Council, "all you need is a thruster and a radio!"

Like hyperspace, metaspace is a parallel spatial dimension; unlike hyperspace, however, a special field is not required to support realspace physical laws. Also unlike hyperspace, metaspace does not map directly to the realspace universe, although as a general rule distances are -much- shorter between realspace points, shorter even than hyperspace.

Navigation in metaspace is accomplished through a combination of dead reckoning and navigational beacons. Aside from the artificial beacons, there are no landmarks whatsoever for navigating in metaspace, not even the gravitational shadows of hyperspace. Sensors can only reach about 5,000 km out at most, the signals absorbed by the ether which permeates metaspace. A vessel which loses its beacon fix or dead-reckoning vector is liable to be stranded forever in metaspace.

(5) WORMHOLES

In theory, wormholes can provide instantaneous transport from one point to another. However, no natural wormholes have been discovered in millenia of exploration, and the isolated reports of ships surviving within a black hole's event horizon to be hurled thousands of parsecs away may be discounted as freak interactions between the black holes' massive gravitational field, the ships' engines, and a couple of Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters.

(6) CROSSING METHODS

Don't. Really, don't.

The only two hyperluminal systems which can work together without some kind of massive explosion are hyperspace from within metaspace, -in that order.- Hyperdrive can be used as an emergency way to get out of metaspace if one becomes lost. Attempting to enter metaspace while in hyperspace, or attempting to enter either while in warp, will result in a spectacular light show which you won't be alive to appreciate.

In -theory- it is possible to engage warp while in hyperspace, but no computer is sensitive enough to configure the warp fields finely enough to prevent the explosive phenomenon observed on test vessels nicknamed the 'Technicolor Yawn.' Essentially, bringing warp engines online in hyperspace drops the ship back into realspace as a combination of energy, gases, and extremely tiny fragments of spaceship. Obviously, this is not something you want to try unless being reduced to your component atoms would improve your situation.

***

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope

>Realspace objects cast mass shadows into hyperspace, and crashing into
>a shadow is just as fatal as crashing into the realspace object in
>question.

Well, I don't know if "worse" is the right word, since you're dead both ways, but at least crashing into something in realspace will generally leave pieces behind, so I'd say crashing in hyperspace is worse.

In hyperspace, when an object loses energy, it *gains* speed. So two objects colliding will, instead of decelerating, accelerate, and continue to collide, until the ship in question is a mess of tachyons spread out over a few billion light years.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process

It should be noted, though, that there's at least one small ship capable of going warp 7. Considering who's writing this reply, three guesses which one? <grin>

(And yes, it *has* been officially mentioned--check Leap Years, part 1.)

What does this mean? Two things:

1) There are always exceptions to the rule, even if they're small ones.
2) Doc in UF is paying through the nose, as well as several other orifices, in order to maintain a micro-warp drive on what is arguably the smallest warp-capable craft.

*sigh* If I had the time, I'd go over some theories of time travel, but...

--DocMui

>It should be noted, though, that there's at least one small ship
>capable of going warp 7. Considering who's writing this reply, three
>guesses which one? <grin>
>
>(And yes, it *has* been officially mentioned--check Leap Years, part
>1.)
>
>What does this mean? Two things:
>
>1) There are always exceptions to the rule, even if they're small
>ones.
>2) Doc in UF is paying through the nose, as well as several other
>orifices, in order to maintain a micro-warp drive on what is arguably
>the smallest warp-capable craft.
>
>*sigh* If I had the time, I'd go over some theories of time travel,
>but...

Or maybe that he's really just figured out a way for the flux capacitor to interface with the warp fields so that he can shave a few microseconds per mile off of his transit time...all though, for values of v1=d/t, he could theoreticlly be faster then a fold drive...kinda. Just get where you wanna go, and then drop back to right before you left. Cross galaxies in negative amounts of time! Hell, if you could do it, you wouldn't even need an FTL drive. (tho it'd get *really* boring...) Specially since (IIRC) he's detian, so immortalish...

--
-Pasha
Umm, right....I'll be with you in just a sec now...

>Or maybe that he's really just figured out a way for the flux
>capacitor to interface with the warp fields so that he can shave a few
>microseconds per mile off of his transit time...all though, for values
>of v1=d/t, he could theoreticlly be faster then a fold drive...kinda.
>Just get where you wanna go, and then drop back to right before you
>left. Cross galaxies in negative amounts of time! Hell, if you could
>do it, you wouldn't even need an FTL drive. (tho it'd get *really*
>boring...) Specially since (IIRC) he's detian, so immortalish...

Ever read L. Ron Hubbard's Mission Earth? Tug One was fitted with a 'Will-Be-Was' drive that used a time machine to reduce travel time over interstellar distances. Of course, they needed another time machine just to see what was in their path (the exact temporal position got a little fuzzy so you had to make sure that there hadn't been any obstacles last week).

Designed for intergalactic jaunts, the drive was discontiued after a Tug vanished while using it. Jettero Heller's (who knows what he's talking about when it comes to fast ships (makes Red Dwarf's Ace Rimmer look like a Larda driver)) best guess was a failure of the inertial dampners, rater than a drive malfunction.

Presumably the 'Will-Be-Was' drive won't show up in UF, but it's a fun concept.

drakensisthered

So I simply said one of the great trite truths: "There is generally more than one side to a story." - Corwin, Roger Zelazny's 'Courts of Chaos'

LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-01 AT 04:32 PM (EDT)

>Presumably the 'Will-Be-Was' drive won't show up in UF,
since Truss has standing orders to disintegrate me if I ever adopt anything from L. Ron Hubbard; that would imply that I had read one of his books.

It's a funny coincidence that this should come up now, though. I just dug out my old hybrid copy of "The Cage" (the original unaired Star Trek pilot) last night and re-watched it, and at one point Jeffrey "Captain Wooden" Hunter announces, "Our time warp factor: 7."

Now, chances are all that really implies is that Gene Roddenberry wasn't very good at making up pseudoscientific jargon in 1964, but it amuses me that, if you put that factor aside, what it seems to be implying is that the Enterprise uses a drive system similar to the aforementioned time thingy.

During the actual series, as far as I know, the term never reappeared, and the arbitrary speed units were just called "warp factors", which has since been retroactively explained as a measure of space warpage. Which is good, because it makes for a lot fewer obnoxious complications. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-01 AT
>04:32 PM (EDT)
>
>>Presumably the 'Will-Be-Was' drive won't show up in UF,
>since Truss has standing orders to disintegrate me if I ever adopt
>anything from L. Ron Hubbard; that would imply that I had read one of
>his books.
>--G.

I've read Dianetics in my teenage years, which is more than enough. Plus the first couple of chapters of his "Dekology" (waterfront guard duty is boring). I've also read the super-classified, use-DMCA-to-get-it-off-the-Web, Thetan III briefing (or something like that) which is supposed to cause anyone who reads it without ten years and $750,000 of training to die of pneumonia.

I'm still alive, though I almost had a fatal ROTFLMAO at the Thetan III stuff. If my obit comes up with pneumonia in the next ten years or so, everybody go join the Church of Scientology and kiss your wallet goodbye.

From what I understand of both "religions", Scientology is what Discordianism could have become if it had fallen to the Dark Side. And that should frighten anybody on this board.

As far as the fiction goes, it was pretty bad. Way out ideas without any rhyme, reason, or coherence. It read like there was a good science fiction author inside the mind of L. Ron Hubbard, but said author kept getting interrupted by his channeling of Zippy the Pinhead.

--rR

>Ever read L. Ron Hubbard's Mission Earth?

Reading anything by L. Ron Hubbard on purpose? Are you insane?

>Presumably the 'Will-Be-Was' drive won't show up in UF, but it's a fun
>concept.

In one short story, Isaac Asimov described an FTL drive that had a time travel component to offset dilation. An interesting side effect was that when it was calibrated properly, you felt no acceleration or deceleration; this was involved in the punch line of the story.

And since Isaac Asimov did it in a short story, it means that he did it succinctly and intelligently, as opposed to writing in three dozen rape fantasies and really bad science wrapped in eight hundred pages of drivel.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process

>>Ever read L. Ron Hubbard's Mission Earth?
>
>Reading anything by L. Ron Hubbard on purpose? Are you insane?

It can be done under conditions of crushing boredom. If the $cientlogists didn't exist, Hubbard's novels would sell like hotcakes to people working the graveyard shift. You can't say Hubbard was a dull writer. Horrible, laughable, even a bit creepy in the not-so-good way, but not dull.

Mr. Fnord, o/~ Xenu loves me, this I know / 'Cause ElRon Hubbard told me so! o/~
--
http://fnord.sandwich.net

>>>Ever read L. Ron Hubbard's Mission Earth?
>>
>>Reading anything by L. Ron Hubbard on purpose? Are you insane?
>
>It can be done under conditions of crushing boredom. If the
>$cientlogists didn't exist, Hubbard's novels would sell like hotcakes
>to people working the graveyard shift. You can't say Hubbard was a
>dull writer. Horrible, laughable, even a bit creepy in the not-so-good
>way, but not dull.

Battlefield Earth was a good book - heck, they made a movie of it in the last year. I admit, Mission Earth and Ole Doc Methuselah (the only other Hubbard books I've read) are a bit weird, but since I care (and know) less about Dianetics and Scientology than I know about aboreal wood lice, I read them.

drakensisthered

So I simply said one of the great trite truths: "There is generally more than one side to a story." - Corwin, Roger Zelazny's 'Courts of Chaos'

>Battlefield Earth was a good book - heck, they made a movie of it in
>the last year.

a) No it wasn't.
b) What has the production of a movie to do with the quality of a book? They made two movies out of Dune.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>>Battlefield Earth was a good book - heck, they made a movie of it in
>>the last year.
>
>a) No it wasn't.
>b) What has the production of a movie to do with the quality of a
>book? They made two movies out of Dune.

And if you put both of those movies together you have one pretty decent movie. :)

------------------------
Chad Collier
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company

>They made two movies out of Dune.
>
>And if you put both of those movies together you have one pretty
>decent movie. :)

... that's 45 hours long.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>>They made two movies out of Dune.
>>
>>And if you put both of those movies together you have one pretty
>>decent movie. :)
>
>... that's 45 hours long.

...and that's not even the special edition.

------------------------
Chad Collier
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company

>>Battlefield Earth was a good book - heck, they made a movie of it in
>>the last year.
>
>a) No it wasn't.
>
>b) What has the production of a movie to do with the quality of a
>book? They made two movies out of Dune.

...every so often, one has to say enough.

Sorry, Gryph, even if you found it boring (and I'm not at all surprised by this, given your previously indicated preferences), Dune is not bad. Long, subtle, ambiguous, and obscure, but not bad by any stretch of the imagination. That it didn't do it for you, any more than the collective work of Philip K. Dick, or The Lord of the Rings, or the collective work of Neil Gaiman, does not make it bad. That you fail to see what is so great about soccer does not make it a dull sport. That you personally don't like Neon Genesis Evangelion or X-Files do not make them bad shows.

That's confusing subjective opinion with objective quality. That's stating personal opinion as if it's a truism.

I don't particularly like The Godfather Trilogy. I watched all three movies recently, after my sister's boyfriend got the collection on DVD. It's not bad by any stretch; the three movies are some of the most marvelously executed films I've ever seen. But I didn't find them anywhere near as enthralling as many people have. That I found them slightly boring does not make them bad; it simply means that I found them slightly boring.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process

>That's confusing subjective opinion with objective quality. That's
>stating personal opinion as if it's a truism.

So was the other guy saying that Battlefield Earth was a good book. Why don't you go crawl up his nose?

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>>That's confusing subjective opinion with objective quality. That's
>>stating personal opinion as if it's a truism.
>
>So was the other guy saying that Battlefield Earth was a good
>book. Why don't you go crawl up his nose?

Well, it was actually a response to both. I can find no objective quality in the "Battlefield Earth" film, except for some aspects of the production design, but I haven't read the book (though what I've read of Hubbard's work doesn't encourage me to do so). And I'm not trying to be argumentative, merely pointing something out and backing up my assertion, but it's hard to communicate vocal tone or body language via printed text.

You're not the only guilty party, G. (I've done it on occasion, though it's a tendency I try to avoid.) You do tend to be the most conspicuous party, though, since you do tend to post so much, and make such statements with a corresponding frequency.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process

>That's confusing subjective opinion with objective quality. That's
>stating personal opinion as if it's a truism.

Ah, but personal opinion IS a truism. It is just not a universal truism. Creative works affect each person in a different manner, but the feelings they evoke are true for them. Even if its a truth along the lines of "It stinks!".

--------------------------------------
God Bless America
Chicken Biscuit $.99
--McDonald's sign in Raleigh, NC

>Battlefield Earth was a good book - heck, they made a movie of it
>in the last year.

And the less said about that piece of monkey shit, the better.

Matrix Dragon

>>Battlefield Earth was a good book - heck, they made a movie of it
>>in the last year.
>
>And the less said about that piece of monkey shit, the better.

Please, be kind. Let's not insult monkeys here...

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope

>>Battlefield Earth was a good book - heck, they made a movie of it
>>in the last year.
>
>And the less said about that piece of monkey shit, the better.

You could also say the same of Starship Troopers... but at least there you got to see SS-Standartenfuhrer Doogie von Howser...

Eric J. Heckathorn
ericjh@stargate.net

>You could also say the same of Starship Troopers... but at
>least there you got to see SS-Standartenführer Doogie von
>Howser...

If you please, Herr Heckathorn. Here in the Reich, we spell it "Dügi".

(Oh, and by the way, big breakage. I never saw the movie, but a still of that character just about laid me out... )

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

LAST EDITED ON Oct-15-01 AT 01:33 AM (EDT)

>>You could also say the same of Starship Troopers... but at
>>least there you got to see SS-Standartenführer Doogie von
>>Howser...
>
>If you please, Herr Heckathorn. Here in the Reich, we spell it
>"Dügi".
>
>(Oh, and by the way, big breakage. I never saw the movie, but a still
>of that character just about laid me out... )

It's worth watching through at least once, especially to see the few moments near the end when he's in all his knee-high jackboot, full trechcoat and sunken eyed glory. And, from a purely technical standpoint, the bugs are for the most part pretty impressive.

It's also got Jake Busey, who has all of his father's unbridled goofyness with only half the shame. :)

------------------------
Chad Collier--...and one of the worst lines of dialog ever, at no extra charge.
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company

>>You could also say the same of Starship Troopers... but at
>>least there you got to see SS-Standartenführer Doogie von
>>Howser...
>
>If you please, Herr Heckathorn. Here in the Reich, we spell it
>"Dügi".

Ja Wohl, Herr Gryphon!

(Just out of curiosity, how did you get it to do the umlaut?)

And, just to get this back on topic, how does the drive on the Sol Bianca fit into the picture, if at all?

Eric J. Heckathorn
ericjh@stargate.net

>And, just to get this back on topic, how does the drive on the Sol
>Bianca fit into the picture, if at all?

First and foremost, the UF version of Sol Bianca is, at last report, -unique.- For that reason, it's not covered in the main article. A galactic hitchhiker is most unlikely to run across it in their travels.

My personal guess (not being a ship's engineer in any incarnation) is that the Bianca's drive is a highly modified hyperspace shunt, since we are told that it -cannot- be tracked while submerged.

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope

>(Just out of curiosity, how did you get it to do the umlaut?)

There are quite a few special characters in the Latin-1 character set, all of which can be displayed in HTML markup with their numeric code delimited by an ampersand and a semicolon. A lot of the diacritical-marked vowels used in foreign languages have mnemonic shortcuts - an umlauted lowercased U is amperuumlsemi, for instance. (If I typed it correctly, it would be evaluated. I don't recall offhand how to mark up something like that so that it's not evaluated... )

>And, just to get this back on topic, how does the drive on the Sol
>Bianca fit into the picture, if at all?

That falls under the general heading of "weird-ass alien gear of unknown provenance". It appears to "submerge" the ship in the sub-ether, the sort of "sideband" to reality where FTL datacomm lives (making a galactic Internet possible), but matter isn't supposed to be able to exist there, as it's not a true parallel reality. The principles behind that drive are not understood, not least because only two examples have ever been seen (Sol Bianca and Unicron), and in neither case have scientists been able to examine them. We aren't even sure where that technology came from, although the most plausible theory to date has been that it's a relic from the lost galactic empire of Atlantis (ca. 5000 BC - AD 0).

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>That falls under the general heading of "weird-ass alien gear of
>unknown provenance". It appears to "submerge" the ship in the
>sub-ether, the sort of "sideband" to reality where FTL datacomm
>lives (making a galactic Internet possible), but matter isn't supposed
>to be able to exist there, as it's not a true parallel reality. The
>principles behind that drive are not understood, not least because
>only two examples have ever been seen (Sol Bianca and Unicron),
>and in neither case have scientists been able to examine them. We
>aren't even sure where that technology came from, although the most
>plausible theory to date has been that it's a relic from the lost
>galactic empire of Atlantis (ca. 5000 BC - AD 0).
>
>--G.

So Unicron is able to enter the sub-ether. That explains why the mail headers bounced in Cybertron Dreams.

BTW, this implies that standard tech is able to project messages into the sub-ether.

--rR

>BTW, this implies that standard tech is able to project
>messages into the sub-ether.

Yes - that's what it's used for, communications. Sub-etheric signals can travel from any point in known space to any other instantaneously - so we can have a galactic Internet where email doesn't take two years to get from Earth to Centauri Prime. :)

However, according to everything our current science thinks it knows, it's impossible for matter to exist in the sub-ether - only patterned energy.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>>BTW, this implies that standard tech is able to project
>>messages into the sub-ether.
>
>Yes - that's what it's used for, communications. Sub-etheric signals
>can travel from any point in known space to any other instantaneously
>- so we can have a galactic Internet where email doesn't take two
>years to get from Earth to Centauri Prime. :)
>
>However, according to everything our current science thinks it knows,
>it's impossible for matter to exist in the sub-ether - only
>patterned energy.
>

patterned energy... am I the only one that thinks that extremely long distance transporters would be possible, if not very practical, then?

-={(Astynax)}=-
"ST-Transport a whole ship? ... nah"

>However, according to everything our current science thinks it knows,
>it's impossible for matter to exist in the sub-ether - only
>patterned energy.
>
>--G.

Is there some kind of max energy loophole in the plot physics there, or is it possible to deliver a lot of energy over sub-ether?

In short: Big honkin' land-based interstellar cannon the literal size of Detroit.

--rR

>Is there some kind of max energy loophole in the plot physics there,

Yes, or, as Astynax pointed out, you'd be able to beam people from New Avalon to Earth, which would be a real pisser for trying to develop a defensive perimeter. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>That falls under the general heading of "weird-ass alien gear of
>unknown provenance". It appears to "submerge" the ship in the
>sub-ether, the sort of "sideband" to reality where FTL datacomm
>lives (making a galactic Internet possible), but matter isn't supposed
>to be able to exist there, as it's not a true parallel reality. The
>principles behind that drive are not understood, not least because
>only two examples have ever been seen (Sol Bianca and Unicron),

Didn't the Silent Service boats - Lief Erikson(sp?), et al - also use it? They haven't appeared for a while though. I recall they had a 'submerge/surface' effect.

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
See what I'm selling on eBay

>>That falls under the general heading of "weird-ass alien gear of
>>unknown provenance". It appears to "submerge" the ship in the
>>sub-ether, the sort of "sideband" to reality where FTL datacomm
>>lives (making a galactic Internet possible), but matter isn't supposed
>>to be able to exist there, as it's not a true parallel reality. The
>>principles behind that drive are not understood, not least because
>>only two examples have ever been seen (Sol Bianca and Unicron),
>
>Didn't the Silent Service boats - Lief Erikson(sp?), et al - also use
>it? They haven't appeared for a while though. I recall they had a
>'submerge/surface' effect.

No, that was a Zardon-style cloaking effect.

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope

>Didn't the Silent Service boats - Lief Erikson(sp?), et al - also use
>it? They haven't appeared for a while though. I recall they had a
>'submerge/surface' effect.

No; they were using standard realspace 'invisible ship' cloaks. Cloaker crews often refer to cloaking and decloaking as surfacing and submerging.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>You could also say the same of Starship Troopers... but at least there
>you got to see SS-Standartenfuhrer Doogie von Howser...

Starship Troopers ain't as bad as Battlefield Earth. The acting stinks in a lot of places, and it's got that many plot-holes it ain't funny. The 'propaganda' is good for a laugh though. And to think I didn't notice Doogie there....

Matrix Dragon

>It should be noted, though, that there's at least one small ship
>capable of going warp 7. Considering who's writing this reply, three
>guesses which one? <grin>
>
>(And yes, it *has* been officially mentioned--check Leap Years, part
>1.)
>
>What does this mean? Two things:
>
>1) There are always exceptions to the rule,

>2) Doc in UF is paying through the nose,

Or, more likely, (3) the Hitchhiker's Guide author is mistaken on this point, as he is on a couple of others. }:-{D

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
www.wlpcomics.com
White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope

>>What does this mean? Two things:
>>
>>1) There are always exceptions to the rule,
>
>>2) Doc in UF is paying through the nose,
>
>Or, more likely, (3) the Hitchhiker's Guide author is mistaken on this
>point, as he is on a couple of others. }:-{D

Or possibly (4), the Editor in Chief hadn't standardized the tech base in the UF universe yet, and it didn't occur to him that such a thing would be really disproportionate and ought to be hyperdrive-equipped.

Hell, even the Daytona from Hell has to have an external attachment the size of a bus to travel at warp speeds.

*sigh* Another piece of fallout from the fact that I was also a lousy editor in the early nineties. :)

(No, Doc, that doesn't mean I'm going to make you change it. It just makes me sigh, that's all. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>>>What does this mean? Two things:
>>>
>>>1) There are always exceptions to the rule,
>>
>>>2) Doc in UF is paying through the nose,
>>
>>Or, more likely, (3) the Hitchhiker's Guide author is mistaken on this
>>point, as he is on a couple of others. }:-{D
>
>Or possibly (4), the Editor in Chief hadn't standardized the tech base
>in the UF universe yet, and it didn't occur to him that such a
>thing would be really disproportionate and ought to be
>hyperdrive-equipped.
>
>Hell, even the Daytona from Hell has to have an external attachment
>the size of a bus to travel at warp speeds.
>
>*sigh* Another piece of fallout from the fact that I was also a lousy
>editor in the early nineties. :)
>
>(No, Doc, that doesn't mean I'm going to make you change it. It just
>makes me sigh, that's all. :)
>

Well, the issue is more the power generation requirements, it seems, with warp drive, so it doesn't seem it's as huge a deal as, say, warp drive existing at all is ;)

Besides, warp as it exists is good for a lot of things on smaller vessels anyway, like patrol ships <no other FTL method lets you see what's going on between departure and destination points readily, and stop if need be. So warp makes sense as, say, the propulsion of choice for police vessels>

-={(Astynax)}=-
"How'd I get sucked into this one?"

>Hell, even the Daytona from Hell has to have an external attachment
>the size of a bus to travel at warp speeds.
>
Gryph, that's a negative on the bad editor.
Is that a City, School or VW?
Patrick

>>Hell, even the Daytona from Hell has to have an external attachment
>>the size of a bus to travel at warp speeds.
>
>Is that a City, School or VW?

Rock band tour bus. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>>>Hell, even the Daytona from Hell has to have an external attachment
>>>the size of a bus to travel at warp speeds.
>>
>>Is that a City, School or VW?
>
>Rock band tour bus. :)
>
CHEESE AND RICE!
What in the wide, wide, wide world of sports did Rob remake the DFH out of?
a secret blend of Adamantium and Gundanium (and 10 other metals)? (and the LGM's go "ooooooohhhhhhh")
a tour bus would squish a Daytona.
Patrick

>What in the wide, wide, wide world of sports did Rob remake the DFH
>out of?
>a secret blend of Adamantium and Gundanium (and 10 other metals)? (and
>the LGM's go "ooooooohhhhhhh")
>a tour bus would squish a Daytona.

Well, Gryph was exagerating a bit. I should draw it sometime, it has been in my head since I put it in UF. It isn't quite that big.

Remember, the add-on was built later. It was meant for long duration trips. It isn't just a drive system, it has some living space.

In my mind it is kind of like Rodimus Prime - where his 'trailer' fit over the back of his 'car' form. Only the DFH module is a bit bigger in proportion to the car.

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
See what I'm selling on eBay

>>What in the wide, wide, wide world of sports did Rob remake the DFH
>>out of?
>>a secret blend of Adamantium and Gundanium (and 10 other metals)? (and
>>the LGM's go "ooooooohhhhhhh")
>>a tour bus would squish a Daytona.
>
>Well, Gryph was exagerating a bit. I should draw it sometime, it has
>been in my head since I put it in UF. It isn't quite that big.
>
>Remember, the add-on was built later. It was meant for long duration
>trips. It isn't just a drive system, it has some living space.
>
>In my mind it is kind of like Rodimus Prime - where his 'trailer' fit
>over the back of his 'car' form. Only the DFH module is a bit bigger
>in proportion to the car.
>
Gottcha on the size and Gryph's exagerating.
Sounds good and all, I figured it was akin to a Pick-up camper, in size and application.
As for RP, I'm still fuzzy on the whole "I used to be a Hot Rodded, RWD with a monster motor and cut out hooded, flamed, Arrest me red futuristic 2+2 and Now I'm a futuristic looking flamed semi because I got the matrix of leadership." thing.
I understand why. But not why that form or some other things.
Just a little too deep.
Patrick

>As for RP, I'm still fuzzy on the whole "I used to be a Hot Rodded,
>RWD with a monster motor and cut out hooded, flamed, Arrest me red
>futuristic 2+2 and Now I'm a futuristic looking flamed semi because I
>got the matrix of leadership." thing.
>I understand why. But not why that form or some other things.
>Just a little too deep.
>Patrick

When you have the Autobot Matrix, you need a semi-trailer to carry your additional genital fortitude?

--rR

>>As for RP, I'm still fuzzy on the whole "I used to be a Hot Rodded,
>>RWD with a monster motor and cut out hooded, flamed, Arrest me red
>>futuristic 2+2 and Now I'm a futuristic looking flamed semi because I
>>got the matrix of leadership." thing.
>>I understand why. But not why that form or some other things.
>>Just a little too deep.
>>Patrick
>
>When you have the Autobot Matrix, you need a semi-trailer to carry
>your additional genital fortitude?

So, for Autobots it's not just how you use it... size really does matter...

-Z, who never thought of a semi trailer as a phallic symbol before this...

---
We are Dyslexic of Borg. Your ass will be laminated.

>>>As for RP, I'm still fuzzy on the whole "I used to be a Hot Rodded,
>>>RWD with a monster motor and cut out hooded, flamed, Arrest me red
>>>futuristic 2+2 and Now I'm a futuristic looking flamed semi because I
>>>got the matrix of leadership." thing.
>>>I understand why. But not why that form or some other things.
>>>Just a little too deep.
>>
>>When you have the Autobot Matrix, you need a semi-trailer to carry
>>your additional genital fortitude?
>
>So, for Autobots it's not just how you use it... size really does
>matter...

Actually, its more a case of once you become the holder of the matrix, you get the semi-trailer of really neat stuff that you use to help defend your followers.... not to mention the really really big gun.

___________________

Vaughn doesn't know I exist. I guess this explains why the rest of reality keeps ignoring me as well. >_<

>It should be noted, though, that there's at least one small ship
>capable of going warp 7. Considering who's writing this reply, three
>guesses which one? <grin>
>
>(And yes, it *has* been officially mentioned--check Leap Years, part
>1.)
>
>What does this mean? Two things:
>
>1) There are always exceptions to the rule, even if they're small
>ones.
>2) Doc in UF is paying through the nose, as well as several other
>orifices, in order to maintain a micro-warp drive on what is arguably
>the smallest warp-capable craft.
>
Or the Flux Time Capacitor is a form of "Zen" stardrive. The only reason
you're limited to warp 7 is because you believe that warp 7 is your maximum speed.
(it's actualy a form of fold drive which is how you get time travel)

If you actualy try to figure out how the FTC works and cause a causuality malfunction<1>.
The warp coils there as an emergency drive and only allow up to warp 2.

<1> Yggdrasil hiccups, and a bunch of "spider bunnies" appear... ask Skuld about spiderbunnies.
--
=^o.o^=

><1> Yggdrasil hiccups, and a bunch of "spider bunnies" appear... ask
>Skuld about spiderbunnies.
>--
>=^o.o^=
Spiderbunnies?
<What do you want to do Doctor?>
<Execute Fanatic_ponder.bat>
<Really? Y/N>
<Yes>
<Task Completed>
<What do you want to do Doctor?>
<Exit>
<Good Bye Doctor>
hmmmm
Spiderbunnies? hmmm.
Well, I guess that's better then Guiness Drinking, cigar smoking Canaballistic Bunny Slippers.
Yep, Yep, Yep..
Patrick

>><1> Yggdrasil hiccups, and a bunch of "spider bunnies" appear... ask
>>Skuld about spiderbunnies.
>>--
>>=^o.o^=

<Snip sys commands.>

>Spiderbunnies? hmmm.
>Well, I guess that's better then Guiness Drinking, cigar smoking
>Canaballistic Bunny Slippers.

You forgot about the Gummi Bear-munching, semi-sentient bit about the bunnyslipers.

<Accessing Datalinks>

Spiderbunny: corporial form of Yggdrasil system bug.

Effects: localised random chaos, which increases exponentaly with the number of 'bugs'.

Removal of: impact with blunt object, (see: mallet, cricket bat, etc.) or nullifier device (see: Skuld's invention list.)

Related topics: Mihoshi, Mask of Discordia.

<Close Datalinks>

--Rod.H
'Interchangeable parts aren't.' - Murphy's Laws of Combat Operations

>>><1> Yggdrasil hiccups, and a bunch of "spider bunnies" appear... ask
>>>Skuld about spiderbunnies.
>>>--
>>>=^o.o^=
>
><Snip sys commands.>
>
>>Spiderbunnies? hmmm.
>>Well, I guess that's better then Guiness Drinking, cigar smoking
>>Canaballistic Bunny Slippers.
>
>You forgot about the Gummi Bear-munching, semi-sentient bit about the
>bunnyslipers.
>
I did?
Well, after two years of walkabout with new data being squished in something's bound to slip out.
Ya know, on the way home I relized that the one command had bad syntax.
I forgot "- Spiderbunnies" in the execute command.
Patrick...

>
>(6) CROSSING METHODS
>
>Don't. Really, don't.
>
>The only two hyperluminal systems which can work together without some
>kind of massive explosion are hyperspace from within metaspace, -in
>that order.- Hyperdrive can be used as an emergency way to get out of
>metaspace if one becomes lost. Attempting to enter metaspace while in
>hyperspace, or attempting to enter either while in warp, will result
>in a spectacular light show which you won't be alive to appreciate.
>
>In -theory- it is possible to engage warp while in hyperspace, but no
>computer is sensitive enough to configure the warp fields finely
>enough to prevent the explosive phenomenon observed on test vessels
>nicknamed the 'Technicolor Yawn.' Essentially, bringing warp engines
>online in hyperspace drops the ship back into realspace as a
>combination of energy, gases, and extremely tiny fragments of
>spaceship. Obviously, this is not something you want to try unless
>being reduced to your component atoms would improve your situation.
>
>***
>
>Redneck
>
>Red wizard needs money badly...
>www.wlpcomics.com
>White Lightning Productions - don't tell the Pope

Well, there goes my half-baked idea that ultrawarp was warp drive in hyperspace. Too bad it doesn't work, you'd be movin' out -and- generally undetectable.
Question: Does UF recognize the ST:TNG convention that Warp 10 is infinite speed, causing one to occupy all points in the universe simultaneously, (and thus causing the annoying "increasing decimalization of Warp 9 becomes faster by many orders of magnitude" phenomenon) or is it a different scale altogether?

TRB

"I wish I was reaper, culling lost souls. I wish I could cast them into deep and lonely holes."

>Question: Does UF recognize the ST:TNG convention that Warp 10 is
>infinite speed, causing one to occupy all points in the universe
>simultaneously, (and thus causing the annoying "increasing
>decimalization of Warp 9 becomes faster by many orders of magnitude"
>phenomenon) or is it a different scale altogether?

Different scale. Non-exponential. In fact, completely arbitrary, since I have no intention of making UF such hard SF that the Fake Speed Units for FTL travel actually mean something calculable. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>Different scale. Non-exponential. In fact, completely arbitrary,
>since I have no intention of making UF such hard SF that the
>Fake Speed Units for FTL travel actually mean something calculable. :)

"Ensign, lay in a course for System XYZ. Warp Whatever. Engage."

:)

------------------------
Chad Collier
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company

>>Different scale. Non-exponential. In fact, completely arbitrary,
>>since I have no intention of making UF such hard SF that the
>>Fake Speed Units for FTL travel actually mean something calculable. :)
>
>"Ensign, lay in a course for System XYZ. Warp Whatever. Engage."

Yeah. "Try to get us there this month. No need to damage anything." :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>In -theory- it is possible to engage warp while in hyperspace, but no
>computer is sensitive enough to configure the warp fields finely
>enough to prevent the explosive phenomenon observed on test vessels
>nicknamed the 'Technicolor Yawn.'

Oh, I just noticed this. The term you're thinking of (from a very old EPU online chat about inadvisable things to do with FTL drive systems) is "Technicolor Scream". "Technicolor yawn" is a 60s-vintage euphemism for vomiting.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>>In -theory- it is possible to engage warp while in hyperspace, but no
>>computer is sensitive enough to configure the warp fields finely
>>enough to prevent the explosive phenomenon observed on test vessels
>>nicknamed the 'Technicolor Yawn.'
>
>Oh, I just noticed this. The term you're thinking of (from a very old
>EPU online chat about inadvisable things to do with FTL drive systems)
>is "Technicolor Scream". "Technicolor yawn" is a 60s-vintage
>euphemism for vomiting.
>

Its still apprapo, though, Gryph, since Hyperspace is in effect puking the remains of the failed experiment back out into normal space. ^_^ Not to mention the efffects it had on the scientists when they realized what they'd done and it made them sick to their stoumachs as well. ^_-

___________________

Vaughn doesn't know I exist. I guess this explains why the rest of reality keeps ignoring me as well. >_<

>In -theory- it is possible to engage warp while in hyperspace, but no
>computer is sensitive enough to configure the warp fields finely
>enough to prevent the explosive phenomenon observed on test vessels
>nicknamed the 'Technicolor Yawn.' Essentially, bringing warp engines
>online in hyperspace drops the ship back into realspace as a
>combination of energy, gases, and extremely tiny fragments of
>spaceship. Obviously, this is not something you want to try unless
>being reduced to your component atoms would improve your situation.

>Redneck

I've heard of some unconfirmed reports of people mucking with this, likely Cybertronians. While the unsuccessful result is called "technicolor yawn", the successful result is called "going plaid".

This is all unconfirmed, of course...

--rR

>I've heard of some unconfirmed reports of people mucking with this,
>likely Cybertronians. While the unsuccessful result is called
>"technicolor yawn", the successful result is called "going plaid".
>
>This is all unconfirmed, of course...
>

::shatter::

bastard...

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Ludicrous Speed, GO!"

Optimus: The Matrix... is going... into my FEET!

TRB

"When will then, be now?"
"Soon!"

>Optimus: The Matrix... is going... into my FEET!
>

Soundwave: I cannot feel my nose.
Sylvie: You don't have a nose.
Soundwave: ...

Ebony the Black Dragon
aka Draco Draconis Ebenium
known to Hasbro as Aaron F. Johnson,
Senior Editor, Living Room Games
http://www.lrgames.com