Though I havn't finished working my way through all of the UF stories yet, I noticed something odd. How come the Reflex Cannon was never mass produced as a standalone weapon? I imagine the Reflex Furnace, cannon parts, and associated pheripherals would be much cheaper, easier, and quicker to produce than just building one into every SDF class vessel. Or did you choose not to do this for storyline purposes?

>mass produced as a standalone weapon? I imagine the Reflex Furnace,
>cannon parts, and associated pheripherals would be much cheaper,
>easier, and quicker to produce than just building one into every SDF
>class vessel. Or did you choose not to do this for storyline purposes?

...Actually, I'm under the impression that those parts are extremely expensive any way you slice it, and I'd imagine that fitting them into an existing spaceframe would be, if anything, more of a chore than building a Reflex Furnace and whatnot for a specific spaceframe design. And, on top of that, the number of engineers who can maintain a Reflex furnace is pretty low.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process

>...Actually, I'm under the impression that those parts are extremely
>expensive any way you slice it, and I'd imagine that fitting them into
>an existing spaceframe would be, if anything, more of
>a chore than building a Reflex Furnace and whatnot for a specific
>spaceframe design. And, on top of that, the number of engineers who
>can maintain a Reflex furnace is pretty low.

At the time of UF4 wasn't it just 1? And besides, I'd imagine that its design is one of the more secret secrets of the WDF. I mean, would you want anyone with the cash to be able to put together a weapon that only damages planets? (everything else is just toast. Doesn't matter how cool you are, you're just toast.)

--
-Pasha
Umm, right....I'll be with you in just a sec now...

>Though I havn't finished working my way through all of the UF stories
>yet, I noticed something odd. How come the Reflex Cannon was never
>mass produced as a standalone weapon?

Because Reflex furnaces represent an incredibly exotic, expensive technology which is understood by only a handful of engineers. The SDF-17 was so far ahead of its time that it would still be incredibly advanced at the time of the Symphony, if it still existed. There is precisely one place in the galaxy where a Reflex furnace can be fabricated and precisely one team of engineers who could then install, calibrate and operate it.

In 2405, there are five Reflex furnaces (four operational) in the UF universe, and no, I'm not going to tell you where they all are.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>In 2405, there are five Reflex furnaces (four operational) in the
>UF universe, and no, I'm not going to tell you where they all
>are.
>
Well, I would assume that one of them was onboard the SDF-23, and that the defunct one was in the wreckage of the -17...

Then again, I could be wrong :)

Offsides

#include <omegaclassweapons.h>

>>In 2405, there are five Reflex furnaces (four operational) in the
>>UF universe, and no, I'm not going to tell you where they all
>>are.
>>
>Well, I would assume that one of them was onboard the SDF-23, and that
>the defunct one was in the wreckage of the -17...

No, it's stated in UF4.

Ok, so we've got 5 reflex furnaces. Ones out of operation. That would be the one on the SDF 17.
Then there's one on the SDF-23, one on the AT&T, one on the Concordia (I think, it being a requirement for fold drive, IIRC) and so that would also put one on the Destiny's Fist.

--
-Pasha
Umm, right....I'll be with you in just a sec now...

>Ok, so we've got 5 reflex furnaces. Ones out of operation. That would
>be the one on the SDF 17.
>Then there's one on the SDF-23, one on the AT&T, one on the Concordia
>(I think, it being a requirement for fold drive, IIRC) and so that
>would also put one on the Destiny's Fist.

I don't think fold drove = reflex furnace, and Largo stated that the AT&T didn't have a singular power source, hence not having the option of turning it into a pretty dust ring around the Dyson sphere with a single photorp. (even though Larry tried, nice black hat that he was :)

------------------------
Chad Collier
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company

>>Ok, so we've got 5 reflex furnaces. Ones out of operation. That would
>>be the one on the SDF 17.
>>Then there's one on the SDF-23, one on the AT&T, one on the Concordia
>>(I think, it being a requirement for fold drive, IIRC) and so that
>>would also put one on the Destiny's Fist.
>
>I don't think fold drove = reflex furnace, and Largo stated that the
>AT&T didn't have a singular power source, hence not having the option
>of turning it into a pretty dust ring around the Dyson sphere with a
>single photorp. (even though Larry tried, nice black hat that he was
>:)
>

-----
"Fighters," Largo said. "The idiots are sending fighters. Do
they think my masterpiece has the idiotic reactor-shaft vulnerability?
They should know that a ship this size cannot even be powered by
modern reactor technology. All stop; resume red alert. Prepare all
defenses and launch all fighters." He sneered. "They might have
bested us," he admitted quietly. "I might have known they would do
something stupid like this." He turned to the window to watch the
slaughter, his smirk rapidly returning.
-----

AFAICT, Largo never clearly states what powers the AT&T, except to make it clear that it doesn't use anything generally available in the UF universe at the time of Core4.

And the only reason that the AT&T was proof against the reactor hit is that Largo noticed the "Small Thermal Exhaust Port Right Below The Main Port" that led directly to the main reactor, and had it removed (Proving Grounds 1). It wasn't the fact that it had auxiliary reactors.

What this really means is that the AT&T could be powered by anything that GENOM had or that R-Type could put together in roughly two years, with the help of GENOM R&D.

Well, except for cats with buttered toast strapped to their backs. I don't think that even Largo would stoop so low.

Peter Eng

>
>No, it's stated in UF4.
>
>Ok, so we've got 5 reflex furnaces. Ones out of operation. That would
>be the one on the SDF 17.
>Then there's one on the SDF-23, one on the AT&T, one on the Concordia
>(I think, it being a requirement for fold drive, IIRC) and so that
>would also put one on the Destiny's Fist.
>

Danilia and Eiko are working on one in Hammer Time part two.. beginning of chapter 41. Though for the life of me I can't figure out if it's a ships or UPs..

>
>Danilia and Eiko are working on (a reflex furnace) in Hammer Time part two..
>beginning of chapter 41. Though for the life of me I can't figure out
>if it's a ships or UPs..
>

Not that it matters, since they never got it working.

Presumably, it stayed in storage at Utopia Planitia, and later became one of the four active reflex furnaces.

Although it also could have been parted out to help build two or three of the four...

Peter Eng

But, there is mention of a Reflex Furnace onboard the Riteous Indignation. Of course, since that wasn't written by the core 3, who knows if/how that figures into the count...

Offsides

#include <onetwothreemany.h>

>Ok, so we've got 5 reflex furnaces. Ones out of operation. That would
>be the one on the SDF 17.
>Then there's one on the SDF-23, one on the AT&T, one on the Concordia
>(I think, it being a requirement for fold drive, IIRC) and so that
>would also put one on the Destiny's Fist.
>
>--
>-Pasha

You don't need a reflex furnace for a fold drive. For exhibit A, I give below:

The Wedge Defense Force used to have a class of space bomber, about
the size of this ship, that had fold drive.  They had to stop
operating them.  Too expensive.  And if something's too expensive for
the WDF... "  He shrugged.  "It's really only viable for military
ships.  A freight consortium tried to build a fold-capable
superfreighter a few years ago and went bust just soliciting the
design."
        

If there are five reflex furnaces in existence, rest assured we didn't waste any on bombers.

--rR

>>Ok, so we've got 5 reflex furnaces. Ones out of operation. That would
>>be the one on the SDF 17.
>>Then there's one on the SDF-23, one on the AT&T, one on the Concordia
>>(I think, it being a requirement for fold drive, IIRC) and so that
>>would also put one on the Destiny's Fist.
>>
>>--
>>-Pasha
>
>You don't need a reflex furnace for a fold drive. For exhibit A, I
>give below:
>
>

 
>The Wedge Defense Force used to have a class of space bomber, about 
>the size of this ship, that had fold drive.  They had to stop 
>operating them.  Too expensive.  And if something's too expensive for 
>the WDF... "  He shrugged.  "It's really only viable for military 
>ships.  A freight consortium tried to build a fold-capable 
>superfreighter a few years ago and went bust just soliciting the 
>design." 
>
>

>
>If there are five reflex furnaces in existence, rest assured we didn't
>waste any on bombers.

Oh, ok, my mistake...it was reflex furnace + fold drive for a Reflex Cannon, I guess...

--
-Pasha
Umm, right....I'll be with you in just a sec now...

>Oh, ok, my mistake...it was reflex furnace + fold drive for a Reflex
>Cannon, I guess...

You don't actually need a fold drive to employ a Reflex cannon; it's just that the SDF-1's design had them in series rather than in parallel, like they should have been. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-01 AT 04:14 PM (EDT)

>You don't actually need a fold drive to employ a Reflex cannon; it's
>just that the SDF-1's design had them in series rather than in
>parallel, like they should have been. :)

I remember now. Once their fold drive abandoned the SDF-1, they had to reconfigure into the silly humanoid shape to fire the cannon.

--------------------------------------
Whoa! What IS it?!

LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-01 AT 10:42 PM (EDT)

>>>In 2405, there are five Reflex furnaces (four operational) in the
>>>UF universe, and no, I'm not going to tell you where they all
>>>are.
>>>
>>Well, I would assume that one of them was onboard the SDF-23, and that
>>the defunct one was in the wreckage of the -17...
>
>No, it's stated in UF4.
>

I do believe that Righteous Indignation has one... Thunder Force has one heck of a time getting it back on line at the start of the Thunder Force story arc. And I would assume that Genom DOESNT have any. So, one Ex aboard the -17. One on the -23, one on Concordia... That leaves one un-accounted for. And only the WDF knows how to build them... so it must be a WDF class ship.

___________________

Vaughn doesn't know I exist. I guess this explains why the rest of reality keeps ignoring me as well. >_<

>one Ex aboard the -17. One on the -23, one on Concordia...

Concordia does not have one. That's explicitly stated in Crossroads.

As of 2400, with Righteous Indignation in the WDF Museum, the SDF-23 is the only operational Wedge Defense Force ship of the line to carry Reflex power or weaponry.

GENOM has never had them; GENOM doesn't have access to overtechnology (the exotic tech base which Reflex power is the cornerstone of).

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>GENOM has never had them; GENOM doesn't have access to overtechnology
>(the exotic tech base which Reflex power is the cornerstone of).
>

Didn't Largo make a comment about dumping reflex tech due to it's finiky nature somewhere in UF4? <coulda sworn, something related to ditching it because it was responsible for how immensely the Dreadnaught died>

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Course, I could have recalled it wrong, or interpreted it wrong, or Largo was wrong and only thought he had reflex tech"

>>GENOM has never had them; GENOM doesn't have access to overtechnology
>>(the exotic tech base which Reflex power is the cornerstone of).
>
>Didn't Largo make a comment about dumping reflex tech due to it's
>finiky nature somewhere in UF4?

No; what GENOM abandoned was fold drive. GENOM's fold-core technology involved some extremely unstable and dangerous fuel compounds which were responsible for the fact that almost all of Musashi became uninhabitable after Executioner crashed there.

The reason they had to develop their own version of fold drive that used such compounds was because they didn't have access to overtechnology. You don't need a Reflex furnace to power an overtech fold drive, but GENOM had neither.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

>As of 2400, with Righteous Indignation in the WDF Museum, the
>SDF-23 is the only operational Wedge Defense Force ship of the line to
>carry Reflex power or weaponry.

>--G.

That's gotta be one big museum.

Of course, we could have turned the RI into the museum itself, but that's another story...

--rR

>That's gotta be one big museum.

Well, there's the entire Dyson sphere. And I bet you could change some old shipyards into a museum.

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
See what I'm selling on eBay

>>That's gotta be one big museum.
>
>Well, there's the entire Dyson sphere. And I bet you could change
>some old shipyards into a museum.
>

Good point. For example, until/unless something happens to Wandering Child, her dock would be available, for one... and a space-dock big enough to build her would have more than enough room for ALL the exhibits the WDF wanted to put on display. Ships like the RI could be docked in the central construction core, while the other displays like Eight-ball One could be in the other rooms of the dock... No-one but Gryph and Zoner know if they're open for walk-throughs... And using some sort of Holo-deck tech would be better suited for that anyway. Keeps down the chance of someone accidentaly pushing the big red button that returns the ship to full combat rediness or something similarly stupid. ^_^

___________________

Vaughn doesn't know I exist. I guess this explains why the rest of reality keeps ignoring me as well. >_<

>That's gotta be one big museum.

Bite your head off, man.

------------------------
Chad Collier
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company

>>In 2405, there are five Reflex furnaces (four operational) in the
>>UF universe, and no, I'm not going to tell you where they all
>>are.
>>
>Well, I would assume that one of them was onboard the SDF-23, and that
>the defunct one was in the wreckage of the -17...
>
>Then again, I could be wrong :)
>
>Offsides
>
>#include <omegaclassweapons.h>

Didn't the SDF-23 have three Reflex furances? Then one for the Concordia and a defunct one in the Son and you have your 5 furances.

----------------
And the winner is... THE HYPNOTOAD! ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!