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Forum Name: Games
Topic ID: 184
#0, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Verbena on Jun-11-21 at 09:54 PM
So. ME1...yeah. I hate to be a spoilsport, but I'm starting to think I'm going to have to skip it and play ME2 again for the bazillionth time. Sadly, even with improved graphics it did not age well for me.

Has anyone else picked up the ME collection? Was it as good as you remember?


------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


#1, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Gryphon on Jun-12-21 at 00:11 AM
In response to message #0
>Has anyone else picked up the ME collection?

I haven't. Heck, I still vaguely regret paying money for ME3 the first time.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#2, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Verbena on Jun-12-21 at 10:28 PM
In response to message #1
Eh, I liked ME3 fine. Just so long as I stop playing before the last 10 minutes of the game. =)


------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


#3, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Nathan on Jun-13-21 at 01:31 AM
In response to message #2
The Leviathan DLC makes the endings merely ordinary-level meh, by providing the basic background of where-the-heck-that-came-from. ME3's real sin is being depressing as fuck.

-----
Iä! Iä! Moe fthagn!


#4, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Verbena on Jun-13-21 at 02:50 AM
In response to message #3
>The Leviathan DLC makes the endings merely ordinary-level meh, by
>providing the basic background of where-the-heck-that-came-from. ME3's
>real sin is being depressing as fuck.

I have to admit, my problem with it was not so much that the ending is sad (I kind of expected that going in) but that Shepard loses all agency and the choice she makes doesn't matter. That choice doesn't mean anything because there's no way to learn what each option actually does until you take it and see the ending, so from Shepard's perspective it's literally a wild-assed guess. Even after making the choice you're not really fighting or winning anything; you're having a heart to heart with Anderson while the Catalyst does it all.


------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


#5, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Nathan on Jun-13-21 at 11:20 PM
In response to message #4
>I have to admit, my problem with it was not so much that the ending is
>sad (I kind of expected that going in) but that Shepard loses all
>agency and the choice she makes doesn't matter. That choice doesn't
>mean anything because there's no way to learn what each option
>actually does until you take it and see the ending, so from Shepard's
>perspective it's literally a wild-assed guess. Even after making the
>choice you're not really fighting or winning anything; you're having a
>heart to heart with Anderson while the Catalyst does it all.

And more to the point for me, you've spent the entire game getting hammered with loss and desperation and things falling apart on all fronts, trying to get a handful of refugees free and give the traumatized survivors a place to come apart in relative peace.

The ending is immaterial in the face of the fact that the game itself was emotionally shattering.

-----
Iä! Iä! Moe fthagn!


#6, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by CdrMike on Jun-15-21 at 04:00 PM
In response to message #5
>And more to the point for me, you've spent the entire game getting
>hammered with loss and desperation and things falling apart on all
>fronts, trying to get a handful of refugees free and give the
>traumatized survivors a place to come apart in relative peace.
>
>The ending is immaterial in the face of the fact that the game itself
>was emotionally shattering.

The Extended Cut does sort of help take some of the sting out of the endings by giving hope spots (ex: Samara w/ her remaining daughter, Krogans rebuilding, etc), while the Citadel DLC gives those who played it a bit of a breather before the final plunge into the endgame. So at least the developers realized that fans needed something to lighten the mood a bit.

In retrospect, I think a lot of fans hated the ending because there's really no "good" ending to the whole trilogy. Only one ending ("Destroy") holds even a slim hope of Shepard surviving, but the trade-off is that you condemn a major character and a major race to oblivion with the unspoken guarantee that you've just delayed the eventual "machines wipe out organics" future. Two others guarantee Shepard dies while also feeling like the Reapers "won" to one degree or another. And the Extended Cut adds a fourth ending that seems less like a choice and more like the developers saying "You want to act like children? Fine! Rocks fall, everybody dies!"

And really, that's what makes the ending ME3's biggest crime, that all of the emotional weight and turmoil of the game ends with an info dump and a Sophie's choice: Save Shepard at the cost of billions of lives or kill Shepard for a hollow victory. And now they want to write a fourth game, which means choosing at least one of those endings as "canon." Zod help us all.


#7, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Gryphon on Jun-15-21 at 04:23 PM
In response to message #6
>And the Extended Cut adds a fourth ending that
>seems less like a choice and more like the developers saying "You want
>to act like children? Fine! Rocks fall, everybody dies!"

That's almost literally the way Neverwinter Nights 2 ends as well, although in that case it was Obsidian's trademark "oops, we have to release the game, don't we?" maneuver at work as opposed to BioWare's Annovian "you do not appreciate our art" response.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#8, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by CdrMike on Jun-15-21 at 06:05 PM
In response to message #7
>That's almost literally the way Neverwinter Nights 2 ends as
>well, although in that case it was Obsidian's trademark "oops, we have
>to release the game, don't we?" maneuver at work as opposed to
>BioWare's Annovian "you do not appreciate our art"
>response.

That's another big part of why the ending was so poorly received, that the response from Bioware to the outpouring of criticism was not an even-handed "We understand you don't like the ending, but we think it works better this way" but instead "YOU UNSOPHISTICATED PHILISTINES DON'T APPRECIATE OUR ARTISTIC VISION!" And yeah, every franchise is going to have fans that can't be pleased, but you really bring it on yourself when you spend years insisting "Choices matter!" and then come back at the end to declare "Truth is...the game was rigged from the start."


#9, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Verbena on Jun-15-21 at 11:05 PM
In response to message #8
>That's another big part of why the ending was so poorly received, that
>the response from Bioware to the outpouring of criticism was not an
>even-handed "We understand you don't like the ending, but we think it
>works better this way" but instead "YOU UNSOPHISTICATED PHILISTINES
>DON'T APPRECIATE OUR ARTISTIC VISION!"

This exactly. The nose-in-the-air reaction, when they changed the ending on the fly right before release, without any of the peer review the rest of the story got, was moronic.


And yeah, every franchise is
>going to have fans that can't be pleased, but you really bring it on
>yourself when you spend years insisting "Choices matter!" and then
>come back at the end to declare "Truth is...the game was rigged from
>the start."

Remember when the devs said the endings couldn't be boiled down to one color or another, juxtaposed with the photo of the game files showing the red, green, and blue ending movies?

The Mass Effect fanbase remembers.


------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


#10, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by CdrMike on Jun-16-21 at 01:26 AM
In response to message #9
>This exactly. The nose-in-the-air reaction, when they changed the
>ending on the fly right before release, without any of the peer review
>the rest of the story got, was moronic.

When discussing the ending of ME3, I often contrast it with the ending of FNV. Apparently one of the biggest obstacle that Bioware and Obsidian experienced was making a big deal out of "choice matters" right up until the ending, and then realizing there was no way to really account for all the possible endings.

For Obsidian, the decision made was to go with the franchise tradition: Final ending that fades to black before giving you a slideshow detailing every major decision you made and what it led to. And instead of defending their choice as "artistic," they responded to fan disapproval that you couldn't play past the ending by admitting that there was just no way to create satisfying worlds for every possible combination of decision.

By contrast, Bioware (originally) gave fans a cookie-cutter ending which did not give fans any closure whatsoever, was totally reliant on the info dump you made before your final choice to give you an idea of what your choice would lead to, and then declared that if you didn't like the ending then there was something wrong with you. They then went back and used the DLCs to try and smooth over the transition and give more explanation, but they've never really admitted that their "artistic vision" was a mistake.

>Remember when the devs said the endings couldn't be boiled down to one
>color or another, juxtaposed with the photo of the game files showing
>the red, green, and blue ending movies?
>
>The Mass Effect fanbase remembers.

This fan in particular also remembers all the assurances that ME3 was the end of "Shepard's story" and that any future installments would have different protagonists. That was even the supposed reason for MEA being set in the Andromeda galaxy, so that they could have a clean slate to work with without worrying about what ending people chose.

But I guess when you release two massive clunkers back-to-back, you either start learning from your mistakes or you go back to your comfort zone.


#11, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Matrix Dragon on Jun-16-21 at 03:14 AM
In response to message #6
> And the Extended Cut adds a fourth ending that
>seems less like a choice and more like the developers saying "You want
>to act like children? Fine! Rocks fall, everybody dies!"

I will always appreciate that ending, just for the comedy of Sofaspud clicking one too many times, shooting the Bullshit Kid, and triggering the choice. "What? WHAT?!"

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


#12, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Sofaspud on Jun-16-21 at 12:49 PM
In response to message #11
I instantly regretted my decision!

--sofaspud
--it was funny, tho


#13, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Verbena on Jun-16-21 at 05:12 PM
In response to message #12
>I instantly regretted my decision!
>
>--sofaspud
>--it was funny, tho

What I regret is remembering that in the original ME3, before the ending fix, you could shoot the kid all day long and it did nothing. And it was cathartic. And I remember seeing YouTubers shooting that kid over and over again because catharsis.

And then the ending was updated and suddenly shooting the kid gets you the worst ending. And I remember thinking that, of all the problems the ending had, THAT was what stuck in the devs' heads?

What a bunch of butthurt children.

------
Authors of our fates
Orchestrate our fall from grace
Poorest players on the stage
Our defiance drives us straight to the edge


#14, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Matrix Dragon on Jun-17-21 at 02:32 AM
In response to message #12
>I instantly regretted my decision!

The rest of us on voice chat did not. :)

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


#15, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-01-23 at 11:20 PM
In response to message #1
>>Has anyone else picked up the ME collection?
>
>I haven't. Heck, I still vaguely regret paying money for ME3 the
>first time.

It's on sale for 15 bucks, so I finally caved. Then waited two days for it to finish downloading. Then realized that I'd have to reinstall the original version of ME2 as well, to load one of my saves and get the code for Gin Shepard's face, because the hell am I going to sit there for an hour alt-tabbing between a screenshot of her from the old game and the LE face editor trying to duplicate her by eyeball. Software!

(At least there IS a code system for the character's face.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#16, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-02-23 at 08:20 PM
In response to message #15
>It's on sale for 15 bucks, so I finally caved. Then waited two days
>for it to finish downloading. Then realized that I'd have to
>reinstall the original version of ME2 as well, to load one of my saves
>and get the code for Gin Shepard's face,

and then that didn't work either, because apparently that code only shows up on screen in 2 if the character was not imported from 1. Because that makes total sense.

I ended up having to download a save editor and scrape the code out of the files that way. What a faff.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#24, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-23-23 at 06:12 PM
In response to message #16
>I ended up having to download a save editor and scrape the code out of
>the files that way. What a faff.

And then, of course, the Legendary Edition character editor got all the colors wrong, because apparently those sliders were tweaked.

Anyway, after an immense amount of annoying screwing around, this is the fully ported and color-corrected code that gets you Virginia Shepard's face in the Legendary Edition ME1 face editor. Now it will be on record for the next time I need it, assuming this forum is still here and I remember to search it:

7T1.BGM.D9C.Q7W.7LI.98Q.194.165.9AC.9CB.6GA.1B3.1

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#17, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-05-23 at 10:06 PM
In response to message #0
A couple of observations, in no particular order:

- The main screen/loading music for the Legendary Edition "shell" is basically the synth riff from "Poker Face". Now you can't un-hear it either.

- With the best will in the world, man alive is the first game a long walk once you've played the second one.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#18, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Kendra Kirai on Feb-06-23 at 10:28 AM
In response to message #17
Personally, I much prefer the first one. I’ve never been into the squad based third person shooter type of gameplay, the KOTOR-adjacent gameplay of the first was much more appealing. Especially what with the reloading and chest high walls for cover, after they spent time and effort explaining why both aren’t a thing in the first game.

#19, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-06-23 at 01:06 PM
In response to message #18
>Especially what with
>the reloading and chest high walls for cover, after they spent time
>and effort explaining why both aren’t a thing in the first game.

The "ammo" mechanic introduced in 2 is pretty hokey (in large part because the in-universe explanation for it doesn't make a ton of sense--and why is Shepard aware of it in the first shooty scene, when it was introduced while she was dead?), but the cover thing is absolutely part of the first game. A part that it's not all that good at, admittedly, given the often hilariously bad sightlines you get from behind it, but still. You can always tell an area where you're going to have a firefight when you enter it, because of all the mysteriously scattered crates and walls. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#21, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Kendra Kirai on Feb-07-23 at 00:59 AM
In response to message #19
Hm, I don't remember that at all, but it *has* been pretty much since it came out since I played it, so that's unsurprising.

Maybe it was communicated so poorly I just never used it? Though now you mention I do kinda remember hiding behind a pillar or two, but it was by no means *required* was it? I should play that again anyway.

Still much preferred to play it over ME2, regardless, cuz of all the squad wrangling you had to do semi realtime, and I just can't wrap my brain around that kind of gameplay.


#22, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-07-23 at 01:39 AM
In response to message #21
>Maybe it was communicated so poorly I just never used it? Though now
>you mention I do kinda remember hiding behind a pillar or two, but it
>was by no means *required* was it?

Well, it's in the tutorial, and I generally find myself getting a lot closer to killed when I don't think to do it, but I'm bad at games, so that's probably not a reliable metric for gauging the usefulness of a game mechanic. Since there's no "get into cover" key in ME1, it's easier to do by accident (if you run into an appropriate object with a weapon drawn, you'll hide behind it automatically), so it's possible you were doing it more than you think and just didn't really notice.

>Still much preferred to play it over ME2, regardless, cuz of all the
>squad wrangling you had to do semi realtime, and I just can't wrap my
>brain around that kind of gameplay.

Most of that stuff is in ME1 as well, but much as with the cover mechanics, the combat is loose enough that it's not strictly necessary most of the time. (The interface is pretty clunky--clearly a prototype--so it's just as well it's not usually needed. I just leave the squad on "use abilities at will, whatever, go nuts" and let the AI handle it. Or not handle it. I've noticed that in the Legendary Edition, the squad tends to forget to leave the spawn-in point of any given indoor area anyway, so often-times Shepard's doing everything herself unless they happen to rubberband back to her in the middle of a fight. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#23, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by Kendra Kirai on Feb-07-23 at 03:43 AM
In response to message #22
Yeah, I did *finish* ME2 without using the squad commands so much. Best ending and everything. But it was clear to me that the game didn't *want* me to just brute force my way through it like that.

I never played ME3 - when I HAD a computer and it was out I refused to let Origin touch my computer, then my computer died, and nothing I had could play it anyway, and then I just never bothered to grab it on PS4 when I got it and now it's forty friggin' bucks (canadian) to buy with Legendary being twice that and *eff that noise*. I have access via EAPlay on PS4 though so it's just a matter of time. I'm in no hurry. On top of expecting it to be ME2 but More Actiony Still, Bioware has made it clear what they think of the people who play their games and don't share their precise and at times *baffling* opinions on what constitutes a well written story is.


#20, RE: Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posted by CdrMike on Feb-06-23 at 01:29 PM
In response to message #17
>- With the best will in the world, man alive is the first game a long
>walk once you've played the second one.

I still remember burning through the first game in its entirety* in the weekend before the second game came out because I'd learned just days earlier about saves being carried over. I also remember calling out sick the next day because I'd started at 2pm the previous afternoon and didn't claim victory until just before 6am the following morning. Then I did it all again not 2 years later because I decided I wanted to swap Ashley for Kaiden in ME3.

There is no way in hell I could do that today, and it's not just because I'm turning into a fossil at the ripe old age of 38 (my lawn, get off it!). I fired up ME1 after Legendary Edition finished downloading the day it came out and played through the first story-related quest after being crowned a Spectre** (i.e. "Save the Absent-minded Professor from the Temple of Doom") and then called it a night after I realized I'd been playing for 3 hours at that point and 2/3 of that was traversing the Citadel looking for bits of lore behind every nook and cranny. Bioware did amazing storytelling back in the day and their games were rich with lore, but if you're in a rush then you're gonna miss a lot of it. Sorta reminds me of all the people who complained at length about how "short" Fallout 3 was because they plowed through the main storyline expecting to come back to the sidequests later.

* Only got 100% of the story and sidequests, no way was I going for all the achievements

** Still one of my favorite scenes of the entire franchise, especially the speech given by the Counselors.


#25, Renegade Interrupts I Always Take
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-25-23 at 03:15 PM
In response to message #0
"How about 'goodbye'?"

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#26, RE: Renegade Interrupts I Always Take
Posted by Matrix Dragon on Feb-25-23 at 07:28 PM
In response to message #25
Right up there with "You're working too hard."

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


#27, RE: Renegade Interrupts I Always Take
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-25-23 at 08:00 PM
In response to message #26
>Right up there with "You're working too hard."

Also headbutting Uvenk and "You talk too much." Even the most paragon of paragon Shepards must do those.

--G.
"I trust I have your attention now?"
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#28, RE: Renegade Interrupts I Always Take
Posted by CdrMike on Feb-26-23 at 05:58 PM
In response to message #26
>Right up there with "You're working too hard."

"I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?"