Go back to previous page
Forum URL: http://www.eyrie-productions.com/Forum/dcboard.cgi
Forum Name: Mini-Stories
Topic ID: 186
#0, Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Gryphon on Jan-28-18 at 04:57 PM
LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-18 AT 02:00 AM (EST)
 
Stardate 2381.222
Monday, August 10, 2381
Starfleet Headquarters
San Francisco, California, Earth

At first, as he returned to his office from his lunch break, Vice Admiral Heihachirō Nogura could not have said which of his two afternoon appointments he was looking forward to less. Upon a moment's reflection, however, he decided the winner of that dubious honor was the latter one, if only because it was less of a known quantity, and Nogura—perhaps unusually in a man who had made his career in a service whose motto was "Boldly Going Where No One Has Gone Before"—did not much care for the unknown.

Still, the former was no great prize either, and it was with a heavy heart that the admiral touched the intercom panel built into his desk and asked, "Breitling, is Commodore Kirk here?"

"He's just arrived, Admiral," Breitling replied.

Nogura suppressed a sigh. Of all the times for Kirk to be punctual. Instead, he gave his usual noncommittal grunt, then said, "Send him in."

A moment later, the door to the outer office sighed open and Commodore James T. Kirk entered the room. As ever in Nogura's experience, Kirk carried himself with an annoying relaxed confidence; he could have no idea what this meeting was about, of course, but that kind of thing never seemed to alter his bearing. Nogura wondered, not for the first time, if the man could possibly be genuinely so much at his ease all the time, or if he were simply so good an actor that he could conceal any other state of mind behind a look of calm self-assurance.

Nogura, who was not a good actor, could only accomplish a similar feat by erecting a grimly expressionless wall where his face belonged. He did so now, rising to return Kirk's salute with stone-faced dignity.

"Take a seat, Jim," he said, the informality of his words completely at odds with that face and the tone of his voice. As the two men sat down on opposite sides of the admiral's desk, Nogura went on, "I see you're still wearing the old gold and black."

"It's still regulation for another six months," Kirk replied; then, with a faintly mischievous scrap of a smile, he went on, "I'm holding out some hope that the Quartermaster's Office will regain its senses within that time."

Nogura grunted again. He didn't much like the newfangled uniform Starfleet had recently adopted either, although the white-fronted grey flag officer's version he was wearing did at least look a little sharper than the muted pastel colors other grades were stuck with; but he would never have admitted it in so many words, even if doing so might have added a bit of human warmth into his interaction with Kirk. On some level, human warmth was the last thing he wanted this interaction to have, anyway.

To that end, he dropped the subject, committed no other acts of small talk, and said instead, "I won't beat around the bush, Jim. Admiral Morrow and I have been considering the best use to make of your talents now that Enterprise's deployment is finished. Harry wants you to join his staff, and I concur. You'll be promoted to rear admiral and come work for me, as Chief of Starfleet Operations."

The great irony of the situation was that Nogura was too preoccupied to properly enjoy seeing Kirk's easygoing confidence slip. At that bombshell, the younger man looked first startled, then puzzled, as he took on board the implications of what Nogura had said.

He regained his composure quickly enough, though, and it was with his usual air of wry humor that he observed, "I've been a commodore for all of a month. Promoting me to full flag rank so soon is likely to ruffle a lot of feathers higher up the seniority list."

"They'll get over it," Nogura replied bluntly. "They'll have to."

"The same way they had to when you jumped straight to vice admiral?" Kirk asked with just a trace of playfulness.

"Exactly," Nogura said, not biting. Then, before Kirk could tease him further, the admiral steamrollered on, "You're ready to serve in a wider capacity. Harry and I believe your record in Enterprise bears that out. You succeeded where no other captain of a Constitution-class vessel did: you brought your ship and crew back intact from five years in deep space."

When Kirk responded to this, he was no longer playful. "The ninety-four members of that crew who didn't make it the full duration might dispute your interpretation of 'intact,' Admiral," he said gravely.

"Everyone else we sent out for that long lost a lot more than that," Nogura said implacably.

"Be that as it may," said Kirk, "the sum total of my experience commanding more than one starship is about three hours of battlefield expediency. I hardly think that qualifies me to be CSO."

"You won't be thrown straight into the lion's mouth," Nogura told him, sounding a trifle testy now. "Randy Haines isn't retiring until next year. She'll get you up to speed with everything you need to know before handing off." Folding his hands on the desktop in front of him, Nogura fixed Kirk with a steady gaze and said gravely, "This is where the Fleet needs you now, Jim. You've done your part on the front lines. Now it's time for you to see how much more you can be."

It was the wrong play, and that became immediately obvious. Nogura saw Kirk's face shut down, becoming as stony and grim as his own, and he knew he had bungled.

"Admiral, with all due respect," Kirk said stiffly (and Nogura steeled himself, because Kirk was the kind of man who only said that when he was about to unleash hell), "I have... no interest in being 'more' than the captain of a starship." Looking Nogura in the eye, he went flatly on, "I've never believed a man can be 'more' than the captain of a starship."

"That's a hell of a thing to say to a flag officer," Nogura pointed out archly, his own façade cracking.

Ignoring the rebuke, Kirk continued as if Nogura hadn't spoken, "I therefore must decline your... generous offer. I'm happy to assist Admiral Haines with her transition in my capacity as commodore while Mr. Scott handles Enterprise's refit," he added diplomatically, "but once that's finished, I mean to take her back out."

"Enterprise is off the table," Nogura said. "What's next for her has not yet been decided; odds are, as the only Block I Connie to come back from a five-year, she'll become a museum ship."

"In that case," Kirk replied, though even this much of a concession was like tearing off a strip of hide, "I trust I'll be able to take most of my officer corps with me to another starship."

Nogura stared hard at him for a few moments, then composed himself with a visible effort and said, "Fine. Since you seem to be impervious to hints, Jim, I'll lay it right out for you. You are too valuable to Starfleet, and to the Federation, for us to keep gambling with your life. You're the only starship captain to come back in one piece from a five-year deployment, and we've made a lot of public capital out of that. If, after all that, we sent you back out and you happened to be killed—and the percentages are very much in favor of that outcome!" he barked before Kirk could voice an objection, "it could damage the Fleet's standing with the Federation public irreparably."

Kirk's face was expressionless now, and Nogura at last had his answer to the question of whether the man could put up a front. "So," he said in rather too calm a voice, "you're saying I have no choice."

"Not at all," Nogura replied. "We can work with you. If the office of CSO is not to your liking, perhaps Admiral Morrow can appoint you to command of Starbase One? Or it's possible you could be the next Commandant of Starfleet Academy. That would permit you to pass on the benefit of your experience to the next generation of officers. You have plenty of options, Jim. You're an excellent officer with a lot to offer. But under no circumstances," he went relentlessly on, "will you receive another deep-space command. That phase of your career is over."

"Commodores routinely hold starship commands," Kirk pointed out.

"Not Commodore James Tiberius Kirk," said Nogura. "Period. This is not negotiable."

Kirk regarded Nogura silently for a moment, then said, "I... can't give you an answer now. Now that you've laid out my options for me so clearly," he added dryly, "I'll need some time to consider them."

"Of course," Nogura agreed. "Think it over. I've just named three possibilities. If you think of something else, Harry and I will do whatever we can to make it happen."

Kirk rose. His brief flash of cold anger seemed to have passed; indeed, it was with an ironic sort of sympathy that he remarked, "Thank you for making the situation as clear as possible."

"You forced my hand," Nogura replied shortly, eager to have the interview over with. "Dismissed."

Kirk gave him an unreadable look for a moment longer, then saluted, turned, and left the room.

In the outer office, Yeoman Breitling heard Commodore Kirk mutter, "And you've forced mine," as he stalked past the reception desk and out into the corridor, but he hadn't the faintest idea what he might have been talking about.


Nogura took a moment to collect himself after Kirk left his office, reminding himself ruefully that what he'd just done was only the thing he was second least looking forward to today.

All too soon, the allotted time arrived for the first least looked-forward-to thing, and with a heavy sigh, the admiral rose and went through a side door into an adjoining conference room. There, he found two of his fellow flag officers, Chief of Operations Haines and Commander-in-Chief Morrow. The three had just enough time to exchange greetings and get situated before the person they were all gathered to meet entered the room.

Nogura steeled himself inwardly at the sight of the man: Benjamin Hutchins, better known as Gryphon, formerly of the Wedge Defense Force. Formerly and, it seemed, again, since he was wearing not the alternate-universe Starfleet uniform Nogura had last seen him in, but rather a blue-and-white, brass-buttoned affair with the WDF's old red-and-white trefoil insignia on one shoulder and the flag of the Republic of Zeta Cygni on the other.

The new WDF's new uniform, I presume, thought Nogura sourly. Ostentatious and overdone. I might have expected as much.

"Admirals," said Gryphon as he stepped behind the lectern at the head of the room. "Thank you for agreeing to meet with me today. We're all busy people, so let me get straight to the point. You all know that I returned to this dimension last year in command of an advanced Constitution-class starship, one representing a technology base some 20 to 30 years ahead of your own current state of the art."

"Which was destroyed," Nogura couldn't quite stop himself from remarking.

"That is true, albeit not strictly relevant," replied Gryphon mildly. "What is relevant is this." He touched a control on the lectern before him, causing a schematic diagram of the same ship to appear on the viewer that made up most of the wall behind him.

"In its native reality," he began, "this was the second, and by far the more extensive, remodel of the Constitution class. The commanding admiral of Starfleet at the time was Japanese, so the internal nickname for the remodel was 'Constitution kai ni'."

(The commanding admiral of Starfleet at the time had, in fact, been the local counterpart to Heihachirō Nogura. Furthermore, the use of the Japanese nickname for the project, which he had opposed, was not particularly affectionate on the part of the design team; but this was not something Gryphon felt the need to explain just now.)

"I was a member of the design team for Constitution kai ni," he went on. "The project was originally conceived as a refit of an in-service starship; then we worked it up into a full specification for new construction, and ultimately the Bureau of Starships developed from that a technology package that could be applied fleet-wide. Within a decade or so, the entire fleet that had existed prior to the refit had either been upgraded or retired and replaced with new ships based on these specs. It was that effective, if I do say so myself."

Gryphon paused for a moment to let that sink in, then continued, "The old Wedge Defense Force had a long history of amicable alliance with the United Earth and United Galactica naval forces that were your fleet's predecessors. It's my hope that the new WDF will enjoy a similarly friendly relationship with Starfleet." Placing his hands on the lectern, he leaned forward slightly and announced, "In honor of that history and that hope, I propose to give you the complete Constitution kai ni package. Materials guides, construction diagrams, software specifications... the works. Everything your yards would need to revolutionize your Starfleet along the same lines..." He paused, making a significant moment's eye contact with Haines, then went on, "... and I think we all know how useful that kind of force multiplication is likely to become in the near future."

"What you're talking about is extremely valuable," Morrow agreed, nodding; then, his expression still as mild and affable as ever, he went on, "Valuable enough that I can't believe you'd ever give it away for free, goodwill or no. What are you asking in return?"

Gryphon chuckled. "Honestly, just having a better-equipped Starfleet in the galaxy as I see it shaping up over the next few years would be reward enough. There is, however, something you could do for me that would make both our lives easier. You all know I'm in the process of staffing, equipping, and making operational a new incarnation of the Utopia Planitia Yards at Zeta Cygni. I've had to pretty much start from scratch. Not only was the old yard much too small for the building program I have in mind, someone seems to have, er... looted it about 90 years ago." With an arch little smile, he added, "Nothing any of you gentlepersons would know about, I'm sure. Long before your time.

"Anyway," he said, making a let-it-pass gesture. "Here's something that would be very helpful to both of us. I'm getting these new yards up to speed, and you'll need some of your people trained up on the new tech. We could accomplish both of those goals most efficiently with a pilot project—you select a transition team and send them to Zeta Cygni, where they work with my new technical core on an actual implementation of this technology. The most efficient way to do that would be to do it just like we did on the original Connie kai ni project: start with an existing Mark II spacecraft and perform the refit on her." He spread his hands. "My people get their feet under them; your people learn what they need to know to bring this material home to your own yards; and the new WDF gets its first capital ship."

"You want us to give you an operational Constitution-class starship?" asked Morrow, his tone and raised eyebrows betraying only mild surprise.

"I've just explained how it could benefit both parties," Gryphon replied equably. "Besides. With this information, and some adaptation and training support, you could jump the fleet's technological basis ahead a good three decades. I think one starship is a more-than-fair starting investment."

"I'm inclined to agree," Haines said, then added bluntly, "if this information is as valuable as you say it is."

"Agreed," said Morrow. "We'll need to have at least some of this data in advance—enough for our own engineering people to evaluate."

With a nod, Gryphon said, "Of course. One of your best engineers is looking at some of it as we speak, in fact—and if you decide not to take me up on the exchange, you can keep what I've given him. It's not anywhere near the full package, but it should be enough for Starfleet-caliber people to get some very useful ideas from," he went on. "Think of it as my way of saying there are no hard feelings."

"Heihachirō, you've been very quiet," Haines said. "What do you think?"

Nogura regarded Gryphon in silence for a few moments, his face as stony as it had been when he was stopping himself from reacting to Kirk. Then he said,

"I think the point is, unfortunately, moot. We don't have any Constitution-class starships available to trade." Folding his arms, he was unable to keep a faint note of spiteful triumph out of his voice as he went on, "All of them are fully engaged on long-term deep-space assignments."

Gryphon smiled, and as he did so, Nogura realized too late that he had just played the wrong card for the second time that day.

"All but one."

Monday, February 15, 2382

Rear Admiral James T. Kirk regarded himself in the mirror for a long moment, adjusting his cuffs. He still wasn't entirely sold on the new uniform, but he supposed it would grow on him if he gave it a chance. It didn't have the spartan timelessness of the old black and gold, but he had to admit it had a certain classical elegance about it.

"All right," he said aloud to his reflection. "Let's go see what they have for me."

Turning, he made to leave the room, then paused to regard the hat sitting on the table for a moment. Then, shaking his head, he left it there and made his way out. Classical elegance or no, he decided, James T. Kirk did not wear hats.

He wondered, in the back of his head, if the little smile of the man awaiting him in the outer office was at least in part because he knew Kirk would come to that very conclusion. If it was, Gryphon didn't say it out loud; he merely remarked,

"Now you look the part. C'mon. I think you're going to like this."

Without further comment, the senior Wedge Defender led the younger man out of the office, down a curving hallway, and then through a heavy armored door that led into a radial corridor. This was in the form of a tube, its upper curvature made of transparisteel, and beyond it lay a panoramic view of part of the vast new Utopia Planitia complex.

Kirk had to make a conscious effort not to gawk at the scale of it, even though this wasn't the first time he'd seen it: rank after rank of drydock frames, each separated by a working space of about half again their own size, stretching off in a three-dimensional lattice that could accommodate dozens, maybe hundreds of ships the size of heavy cruisers, or even larger. Most of them were still empty, true, and the few that were occupied contained only the beginnings of alloy skeletons, not yet even recognizable as ships. When this facility was fully up to speed, though, it would be capable of turning out whole fleets at once.

"So... where are we going?" Kirk inquired, his tone light, as they passed from the transparent section and into another enclosed stretch of hallway. "Is this the new-hire tour?"

"No, that comes later," Gryphon replied. "I thought I should start by introducing you to the people you'll be working with, and show you your new ship. She's still in a bit of a state, I'm afraid," he added apologetically, "but she's coming along nicely, and I think'll get the general idea of where we're heading with her."

Kirk made a noncommittal noise, but did not otherwise reply. Six months' trekking in Alaska, his self-prescribed therapy regimen after his abrupt retirement from Starfleet, had blunted the sting of losing the Enterprise, but he still wasn't in a place where he felt like bantering jovially about his next command. To be sure, he was grateful for the opportunity to have a next command, something Starfleet hadn't been willing to grant him—it was why he'd even considered Gryphon's job offer, much less accepted it—but...

He hadn't even had time to complete the thought when Gryphon suddenly stopped, turned left, and keyed open the door, then gestured Kirk through ahead of him.

"Well, I say introducing," he correct himself. "Truth is, you've all already met."

Giving him a quizzical look, Kirk stepped past him into the room beyond the door—and then stopped, his face going blank with surprise, at the sight of the six people who awaited him there. At the sound of the door, they had all turned to look, and now, at the sight of Kirk, they broke into beaming smiles... well, all but McCoy, who just gave his knowing little smirk, and Spock, who arched an eyebrow in silent agreement with it.

Kirk thought he'd been surprised to see these six, the department heads and command staff of the Enterprise, standing in a room at Utopia Planitia, and all wearing WDF uniforms like the one he'd just put on for the first time... but it was nothing compared to the surprise he got when they broke their little formation to approach him, with outstretched hands and declarations of welcome, and he saw what lay beyond the picture window behind them.

It was a starship, currently in the midst of being refitted: warp engines dismounted; whole sections of pearlescent-grey tritanium hull plating removed; surrounded by an organized chaos of floodlights, cables, moored work platforms, vacsuited engineers, welding sparks. A starship that, even in this state, Kirk recognized instantly—would have done even if the patchwork of her dorsal hull didn't retain just enough of her old markings to be legible.

U.S.█ EN██RPRI██
NC██701

And so it was that for one of the few times in his life, James Tiberius Kirk could find no words at all. Turning to see Gryphon observing the reunion from the doorway, he asked the obvious question with his face rather than his voice.

The Wedge Defender folded his arms and leaned against the doorjamb with a little smile. "Well," he said, "I figured if Starfleet no longer wanted the most effective starship command team in the Federation, I might as well find a use for it."

Still trying vainly to get his voice back in gear, Kirk could reply only, "Wha—how—"

Gryphon shrugged. "I made them an offer they couldn't refuse."

"Out to Pasture" - a Crossroads Mini-Story by Benjamin D. Hutchins
Special to the Eyrie Productions Discussion Forum
© 2018 Eyrie Productions, Unlimited


#1, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Verbena on Jan-28-18 at 05:23 PM
In response to message #0
Great story!

This is, of course, something that we've known about for a long, long time now. But it's great to see the story be told.

------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her


#2, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Star Ranger4 on Jan-28-18 at 10:30 PM
In response to message #1
>This is, of course, something that we've known about for a long, long
>time now. But it's great to see the story be told.
>

I cant add anything more to this than Me Too.


#3, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by SpottedKitty on Jan-29-18 at 03:07 AM
In response to message #1
Agreed, it's filling in a known gap, but it's still an enjoyable story with some genuinely fun bits here and there.

BTW, is there a picture anywhere of the WDF uniform worn here? I thought there was in one of the various image folders, but I can't find anything and I can't quite visualise it.

--
Unable to save the day: File is read-only.


#4, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Peter Eng on Jan-29-18 at 12:52 PM
In response to message #3
>
>BTW, is there a picture anywhere of the WDF uniform worn here? I
>thought there was in one of the various image folders, but I can't
>find anything and I can't quite visualise it.
>

I vaguely remember it being described as along the lines of "anime space officer, Captain or higher." I don't think there's a picture anywhere at the moment.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


#5, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Gryphon on Jan-29-18 at 01:18 PM
In response to message #3
LAST EDITED ON Jan-29-18 AT 01:19 PM (EST)
 
>BTW, is there a picture anywhere of the WDF uniform worn here? I
>thought there was in one of the various image folders, but I can't
>find anything and I can't quite visualise it.

It got discussed in the comments on Second Chances Are Illogical, but there is no specific illustration of what the WDF's version looks like.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#6, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Trscroggs on Jan-29-18 at 02:28 PM
In response to message #0
I had always sort of wondered how Gryphon got the Enterprise out from under Star Fleet.

In a way this was even a little more epic than I was expecting. I was sort of expecting a mothballed or museum ship trade, something that had to be rebuilt from basically they frame up, not a still functional ship.


#7, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Gryphon on Jan-29-18 at 02:36 PM
In response to message #6
>In a way this was even a little more epic than I was expecting. I was
>sort of expecting a mothballed or museum ship trade, something that
>had to be rebuilt from basically they frame up, not a still functional
>ship.

The Connie kai ni remodel is basically that anyway, given how radical the changes between TV and movie Enterprise were. Plus, she was at the end of a long deployment and would have needed an extensive refit regardless. There wasn't really much practical difference, in terms of work required, between what they started with and a museum ship, other than the absence of cobwebs. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#8, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Peter Eng on Jan-29-18 at 03:13 PM
In response to message #7
So, the only practical difference was that they didn't need to arrange a warp tow? :)

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


#22, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Trscroggs on Feb-14-18 at 09:52 AM
In response to message #7
>As I think about a reply a month or two later.

I know the refit is basically a rebuilding, but Gryphon basically scammed Starfleet out of a famous exploration ship that had just finished a major tour.

It wasn't a old museum ship that's been setting in docks for 40+ years and needed a grassroots campaign to get a fresh coat of paint and requires regular donations to keep the light on because it doesn't get enough visitors every year. That's a ship that just sailed back into port after the government's first successful around-the-world trip. It should be on every "Join Starfleet and See the Stars" poster and vidcast for the next half-decade or so.

Sure they can spin it, an already successful ship is getting an upgrade that puts it decades in advance of its neighbors, but still....


#23, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Peter Eng on Feb-14-18 at 01:20 PM
In response to message #22
>That's a ship that just sailed
>back into port after the government's first successful
>around-the-world trip. It should be on every "Join Starfleet and See
>the Stars" poster and vidcast for the next half-decade or so.
>
>Sure they can spin it, an already successful ship is getting an
>upgrade that puts it decades in advance of its neighbors, but
>still...

Starfleet would have been faced with difficulties in pointing out the success of Enterprise's five-year mission while spinning the departure of James T. Kirk even if they had been fools enough to reject Gryphon's offer. Enterprise without Kirk in Starfleet is a hollow shell for purposes of public relations, particularly since it's the most successful Constitution-class ship, and still had roughly 20% of its crew die. "We don't have the man who could teach you how to get through all that, but we have his mission logs," won't exactly be reassuring, no matter how good a face they put on it.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


#24, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-14-18 at 01:37 PM
In response to message #22
>>As I think about a reply a month or two later.
>
>I know the refit is basically a rebuilding, but Gryphon basically
>scammed Starfleet out of a famous exploration ship that had just
>finished a major tour.

I object to the use of "scam". Only one party receives anything of value from a scam.

>Sure they can spin it, an already successful ship is getting an
>upgrade that puts it decades in advance of its neighbors, but
>still....

Starfleet's PR people will find a way to make the transfer of Enterprise and the mass defection of Kirk and his officer corps seem like part of a coordinated gesture of extreme magnanimity from the Fleet to a storied and much-abused galactic defense organization that is getting back on its feet. Since this aligns quite well with the WDF Public Affairs Office's own overarching goal in those years of shaking off the lingering tendrils of its GENOM-built Exile bad image, they're more than happy to let Starfleet's people tell that story.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#25, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Wiregeek on Feb-15-18 at 01:41 AM
In response to message #24
Ahhh, it's truly beautiful when you can convince someone else that they're benefiting from doing your work for you.

#26, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Trscroggs on Feb-15-18 at 08:47 AM
In response to message #24

>
>I object to the use of "scam". Only one party receives anything of
>value from a scam.
>

True, and a point. I apologize. Starfleet is getting a major tech upgrade while only 'losing' a captain they were about to lose anyway and a ship that they would have to rebuild.

As a reader, however, I can't help but feel that Starfleet isn't exactly getting the best half of this deal.

>
>Starfleet's PR people will find a way to make the transfer of
>Enterprise and the mass defection of Kirk and his officer corps
>seem like part of a coordinated gesture of extreme magnanimity from
>the Fleet to a storied and much-abused galactic defense organization
>that is getting back on its feet. Since this aligns quite well with
>the WDF Public Affairs Office's own overarching goal in those years of
>shaking off the lingering tendrils of its GENOM-built Exile bad image,
>they're more than happy to let Starfleet's people tell that story.
>

*Clap, clap* There's the sort of spin I was talking about.


#9, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by CdrMike on Jan-31-18 at 03:49 AM
In response to message #0
I’m actually sort of surprised that the UF Constitution-class suffered a worse survival rate than their ST counterparts. By “Block-1,” are we talking the 12-14 ship run that Starfleet had in ST canon?

#10, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Peter Eng on Jan-31-18 at 12:30 PM
In response to message #9
>I’m actually sort of surprised that the UF Constitution-class
>suffered a worse survival rate than their ST counterparts.

Given the existence of Kilrathi, Gamilons, Sith, GENOM, and other people I can't remember off-hand, it seems rather reasonable.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


#11, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by pjmoyer on Jan-31-18 at 01:47 PM
In response to message #10
>>I’m actually sort of surprised that the UF Constitution-class
>>suffered a worse survival rate than their ST counterparts.
>
>Given the existence of Kilrathi, Gamilons, Sith, GENOM, and other
>people I can't remember off-hand, it seems rather reasonable.

Also the sheer amount of archeotech and astronomical anomalies scattered about the galaxy (and concentrated in certain areas). The Enigma Sector wasn't named after the Professor, after all...

--- Philip






Philip J. Moyer
Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios
"Insert Pithy Comment Here"
Fandoms -- Fanart -- Fan Meta Discussions


#12, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Gryphon on Jan-31-18 at 10:32 PM
In response to message #9
LAST EDITED ON Feb-01-18 AT 12:28 PM (EST)
 
>I’m actually sort of surprised that the UF Constitution-class
>suffered a worse survival rate than their ST counterparts. By
>“Block-1,” are we talking the 12-14 ship run that Starfleet had in
>ST canon?

I had to check; in Manhunt #1, Gil Grissom does describe the native holder of hull number NCC-1717, UGS Yorktown, as "a Block I Constitution-class cruiser, one of the first twelve made." The way that's worded, it could mean Block I was at least a dozen ships, but I'm pretty sure my intent at the time was to imply that "the first twelve" and "Block I" were the same thing.

In the course of the original Star Trek, I can think of at least three other starships (not all shown on screen, IIRC, but all implied to be the same class as Enterprise) that were lost or destroyed (Constellation in "The Doomsday Machine", Defiant in "The Tholian Web", and Intrepid in... um... the one with the giant space amoeba, I forget the episode title. Also, I'm pretty sure at least one of the ones involved in the wargame in "The Ultimate Computer" was either destroyed or rendered derelict by the M-5, and the others were all shot up pretty bad. That's all just off the top of my head. It seemed at the time like anytime a starship other than Enterprise was mentioned in the original series, it was destroyed.

UF-wise, we know Yorktown was destroyed 50 years before Manhunt "at the Battle of the Kedaris Rift." Grissom never specifies who the enemy was (presumably he doesn't have to, since Lt. Adaji would know), but 2330 was around the time the UG was falling apart, so there's no shortage of candidates.

(I know the chronology doesn't really work there—if the original Constitution-class ships are that old, and Enterprise is one of them, a lot of things about Enterprise's appearance later in Manhunt and in this story don't make sense—but I'm not going to try and unravel that while I'm battling a sinus infection. I think we're going to have to chalk it up to the Exile existing in Weird Comic Book Time. :)

Anyway, the point is, being a UGN and/or Starfleet heavy cruiser was a dangerous business before the brass at Starfleet got the idea to deploy them on multi-year long-range missions, so it doesn't strike me as that unlikely that only one of the first dozen survived. We have to assume that not all of the twelve survived long enough to be sent on a five-year exploration deployment in the first place, is all.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#13, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by jhosmer1 on Feb-01-18 at 07:11 AM
In response to message #12
Heh, you put Utena's ship in the Tholian Web. That would have made for a very different episode. :)

I guess when you think of Defiant, your brain just goes to Symphony of the Sword?


#14, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Star Ranger4 on Feb-01-18 at 11:20 AM
In response to message #13
>I guess when you think of Defiant, your brain just goes to Symphony of
>the Sword?

Mine does... 15 pounds of whooparse in a 10 pound sack well describes both the ship AND her captain in that regard. :ROFL


#15, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-01-18 at 12:30 PM
In response to message #13
>Heh, you put Utena's ship in the Tholian Web. That would have made for
>a very different episode. :)
>
>I guess when you think of Defiant, your brain just goes to Symphony of
>the Sword?

No, there was also a ship in TOS called the Valiant (the long-destroyed scout ship mentioned in "Where No Man Has Gone Before"); I simply mixed them up.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#16, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Peter Eng on Feb-01-18 at 12:44 PM
In response to message #12
LAST EDITED ON Feb-01-18 AT 12:46 PM (EST)
 
>
> ...the one with the giant space amoeba...
>

"The Immunity Syndrome."

>
> ...one of the ones involved in the wargame in "The Ultimate Computer"...
>

Excalibur.

Also, there's the Exeter, all hands lost in "The Omega Glory." Memory Alpha says the ship was intact, but left adrift. My guess is that it was left for quarantine purposes.

>
> It seemed at the time like anytime a starship other than Enterprise was
> mentioned in the original series, it was destroyed.
>

Now I'm imagining all the other Constitution-class ships with a red paint job.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


#17, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by CdrMike on Feb-01-18 at 03:52 PM
In response to message #12
>I had to check; in Manhunt #1, Gil Grissom does describe the
>native holder of hull number NCC-1717, UGS Yorktown, as "a
>Block I Constitution-class cruiser, one of the first twelve
>made." The way that's worded, it could mean Block I was at
>least
a dozen ships, but I'm pretty sure my intent at the time was
>to imply that "the first twelve" and "Block I" were the same thing.

That's pretty much what I figured, that you'd meant the original 12 ship run. For some reason, I'd forgotten that the Connies started coming off the line way back before Starfleet officially existed.

>In the course of the original Star Trek, I can think of at
>least three other starships (not all shown on screen, IIRC, but all
>implied to be the same class as Enterprise) that were lost or
>destroyed (Constellation in "The Doomsday Machine",
>Defiant in "The Tholian Web", and Intrepid in... um...
>the one with the giant space amoeba, I forget the episode title.
>Also, I'm pretty sure at least one of the ones involved in the wargame
>in "The Ultimate Computer" was either destroyed or rendered derelict
>by the M-5, and the others were all shot up pretty bad. That's all
>just off the top of my head. It seemed at the time like anytime a
>starship other than Enterprise was mentioned in the original
>series, it was destroyed.

USS Intrepid - Lost to "space amoeba" (Think the brass probably figured Kirk was yanking their chain)
USS Defiant - "Lost" to an interphasic rift
USS Constellation - Lost to ancient alien superweapon
USS Excalibur - Total loss due to M-5 test
USS Hood - Heavy casualties due to M-5 test
USS Lexington - Major damage due to M-5 test
USS Potemkin - Unspecific damage due to M-5 test
USS Exeter - Total crew loss, ship salvagable (Doubt Starfleet would abandon a perfectly good heavy cruier)
USS Farragut - Mentioned as "destroyed" in "Obsession"

Yeah, reviewing the list from ST canon, I guess losing 12 Connies isn't that shocking anymore.

>UF-wise, we know Yorktown was destroyed 50 years before
>Manhunt "at the Battle of the Kedaris Rift." Grissom never
>specifies who the enemy was (presumably he doesn't have to, since Lt.
>Adaji would know), but 2330 was around the time the UG was falling
>apart, so there's no shortage of candidates.
>
>(I know the chronology doesn't really work there—if the original
>Constitution-class ships are that old, and Enterprise is
>one of them, a lot of things about Enterprise's appearance
>later in Manhunt and in this story don't make sense—but I'm
>not going to try and unravel that while I'm battling a sinus
>infection. I think we're going to have to chalk it up to the Exile
>existing in Weird Comic Book Time. :)
>
>Anyway, the point is, being a UGN and/or Starfleet heavy cruiser was a
>dangerous business before the brass at Starfleet got the idea
>to deploy them on multi-year long-range missions, so it doesn't strike
>me as that unlikely that only one of the first dozen survived.
>We have to assume that not all of the twelve survived long enough to
>be sent on a five-year exploration deployment in the first
>place, is all.

Agreed, I'd forgotten that the Exile was a pretty dangerous time before I factored in all the stuff that the canon Starfleet actually ran into. It's still sort of shocking that Starfleet lost heavy cruisers in the 23rd more often than they'd lose runabouts a century later.


#18, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-01-18 at 04:17 PM
In response to message #17
>It's still sort of shocking that Starfleet lost
>heavy cruisers in the 23rd more often than they'd lose runabouts a
>century later.

They didn't always pull it off, but there was always at least an attempt to portray the galaxy in the TOS era as sort of an interstellar Age of Sail—it shows in the broad latitude Starfleet captains were supposed to have, the occasional attempts at showing long-range communications as unreliable and large parts of the galaxy yet unexplored, and so forth. The show was sold to the network as Wagon Train to the Stars, but from those bits it's clear that at least some of the writers were thinking more of Horatio Hornblower in Outer Space.

TNG, by contrast, is the age of containerized freight. Ships still get lost in storms and meet other misadventures, but somehow it's not as romantic even when they do. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#19, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by CdrMike on Feb-01-18 at 05:34 PM
In response to message #18
>They didn't always pull it off, but there was always at least an
>attempt to portray the galaxy in the TOS era as sort of an
>interstellar Age of Sail—it shows in the broad latitude
>Starfleet captains were supposed to have, the occasional attempts at
>showing long-range communications as unreliable and large parts of the
>galaxy yet unexplored, and so forth. The show was sold to the network
>as Wagon Train to the Stars, but from those bits it's clear
>that at least some of the writers were thinking more of Horatio
>Hornblower in Outer Space.
>
>TNG, by contrast, is the age of containerized freight. Ships still
>get lost in storms and meet other misadventures, but somehow it's not
>as romantic even when they do. :)

I've always felt the "Wagon Train to the Stars" sales pitch was more due to the culture of the time (Westerns were still big money) than any intent on the creative staff's part to crib from that genre. There was always a more Age of Sail feel to the series, with more than one comparison of Kirk to Hornblower. That became even more evident with Wrath of Khan, which could have been moved to such a setting without losing much of the story.


#20, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-01-18 at 05:57 PM
In response to message #19
>I've always felt the "Wagon Train to the Stars" sales pitch was
>more due to the culture of the time (Westerns were still big money)
>than any intent on the creative staff's part to crib from that genre.

Well, yes, hence "sold to the network". It was all about making the suits at NBC believe they'd make money off it.

>There was always a more Age of Sail feel to the series, with more than
>one comparison of Kirk to Hornblower. That became even more evident
>with Wrath of Khan, which could have been moved to such a
>setting without losing much of the story.

... I'm not sure what C.S. Forester's narrative equivalent of the Genesis device would have been, but apart from that, sure. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#27, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Offsides on Mar-06-18 at 10:27 AM
In response to message #12
>(I know the chronology doesn't really work there—if the original
>Constitution-class ships are that old, and Enterprise is
>one of them, a lot of things about Enterprise's appearance
>later in Manhunt and in this story don't make sense—but I'm
>not going to try and unravel that while I'm battling a sinus
>infection. I think we're going to have to chalk it up to the Exile
>existing in Weird Comic Book Time. :)
>
>Anyway, the point is, being a UGN and/or Starfleet heavy cruiser was a
>dangerous business before the brass at Starfleet got the idea
>to deploy them on multi-year long-range missions, so it doesn't strike
>me as that unlikely that only one of the first dozen survived.
>We have to assume that not all of the twelve survived long enough to
>be sent on a five-year exploration deployment in the first
>place, is all.

My gut is that the Enterprise is the first one to survive a 5-year mission because earlier in their career the ships weren't sent out on ones that long. Probably because when they first arrived on scene they were needed to deal with the difficulties of the early 24th century, and then when they were sent on missions they weren't sent on ones that long either because they didn't know if they could manage that long or they didn't want to risk having ships of that caliber too far away to get back quickly if needed.

By the time things had settled down to a dull roar and Starfleet was confident it could plan on having Connies out of reach for that long, it was well into the latter half of the 24th century. And even then, 5 years proved to be a long time for one of them to be away from support, etc. Who knows how many of the 5-year mission ships were original Block I, or were later Blocks, but Enterprise was clearly the first of any block to return (mostly) intact...

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


#28, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by TheOtherSean on Mar-06-18 at 08:03 PM
In response to message #27
>My gut is that the Enterprise is the first one to survive a
>5-year mission because earlier in their career the ships
>weren't sent out on ones that long. Probably because when they first
>arrived on scene they were needed to deal with the difficulties of the
>early 24th century, and then when they were sent on missions they
>weren't sent on ones that long either because they didn't know if they
>could manage that long or they didn't want to risk having ships of
>that caliber too far away to get back quickly if needed.
>
>By the time things had settled down to a dull roar and Starfleet was
>confident it could plan on having Connies out of reach for that long,
>it was well into the latter half of the 24th century. And even then,
>5 years proved to be a long time for one of them to be away from
>support, etc. Who knows how many of the 5-year mission ships were
>original Block I, or were later Blocks, but Enterprise was
>clearly the first of any block to return (mostly) intact...

It may have been different in the UF-verse, of course, but in ST:TOS, it wasn't 5 years of constant exploration, nor was it without support from Starfleet and civilian bases. Enterprise made a number of stops at starbases: it was headed to Starbase 6 for R&R right before encountering the space amoeba that destroyed Intrepid, was carrying Commodore Stocker to Starbase 10, and stopped at Starbase 11 and Deep Space Station K-7. Enterprise was diverted from exploration duties a number of times to carry out short-term military and diplomatic missions, served as a testbed in The Ultimated Computer, ferried scientists and/or bureaucrats to various places, and appeared to be making brief visits to Federation outposts and colonies as it moved between the bases and the zones it was exploring.


#29, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by mdg1 on Mar-06-18 at 09:05 PM
In response to message #28
I think it's probably best to think of it as something like a naval deployment. It's not so much that they spent 5 years "at sea", but it was 5 years without a lengthy time in drydock. At best, they stopped at the occasional starbase for supplies and fuel, but nothing major.

#30, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Croaker on Mar-16-18 at 01:30 PM
In response to message #29
>I think it's probably best to think of it as something like a naval
>deployment. It's not so much that they spent 5 years "at sea", but it
>was 5 years without a lengthy time in drydock. At best, they stopped
>at the occasional starbase for supplies and fuel, but nothing major.


I've heard some speculation about this -- basically, the general consensus among people I've discussed it with is that the Federation laid claim to a fairly large region of space that was partially to mostly unexplored or unknown, at least to any of the races/empires/nations they were in contact with at the time (such as the Klingons). Their initial exploration efforts set up a lot of nodal supply posts, border stations like K-7, etc, but a lot of that space was still pretty much unknown - kind of like the space between cities in the rural midwest, but more so. The Connies' 5-year missions were to go out and poke about in that space, rather than going /out/ beyond the current boundaries, for the most part.


#21, RE: Crossroads: Out to Pasture
Posted by Mercutio on Feb-02-18 at 00:11 AM
In response to message #0
LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-18 AT 01:55 AM (EST)
 
Nitpick:

> "Be that as it may," said Kirk, "the sum total of my experience commanding
> more that one

You wanted a "than" there.

Really, it was probably for the best that this Kirk left Starfleet. Canon-Kirk didn't have much choice when they promoted him; it was the only game in town if he wanted to keep working in space in anything close to the way he wanted, and he had to play by their rules, and the part of Kirk that actually is a team player and a dutiful officer would have eventually made its peace with that, even if it wasn't his true passion. In a world where the movies don't happen and Kirk ends up needing to take that desk job, I imagine he spends an awful lot of time mentoring officers, because Kirk is very much a people person; he's all about personal relationships. He'd have made a hell of an Academy head, too.

UF-Kirk would have very much chafed doing that, not because he isn't a dutiful officer in the same way as Canon-Kirk but because this universe has actual alternatives to Starfleet and the part of him that's more than a little selfish and a bit arrogant would always have been looking at the WDF, or the Freespacers, or a few other outfits and mulishly telling the rest of him "We could have our own ship INSTANTLY if we left." Parting on amicable terms for an organization that would always let him have his own field command so long as he wanted it and was competent to manage it, and that is based very largely on the establishment and cultivation of personal relationships and esprit de corps, is a much better fit for his personality.

Nogura, and Starfleet, were not wrong to pull him from the field and try and bump him upstairs; Starfleet and the Federation have considerations that extend far, far beyond making Jim Kirk a happy man. But Kirk wasn't wrong for leaving, either. That's just how things be, sometimes.

Incidentally, Ben, I was very impressed at how you wrote Nogura. With respect, you have a long history of writing people who are meant to be antagonists, or at least antagonistic, as unpleasant caricatures. But Nogura is being an absolutely professional, even accommodating, officer here despite his own personal dislikes and biases. I found myself nodding along with him a lot, agreeing and sympathizing with him. Well done.

-Merc
Keep Rat