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Forum Name: The New Frontier
Topic ID: 2
#0, pre-foreshadowing
Posted by Gryphon on Sep-07-06 at 09:52 PM
LAST EDITED ON Sep-08-06 AT 01:20 AM (EDT)
 
[If it helps, imagine it recited, slowly and gravely, by Raven.]

Mistah Kurtz - he dead.

A penny for the Old Guy

I

We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar

Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;

Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death's other Kingdom
Remember us - if at all - not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.

II

Eyes I dare not meet in dreams
In death's dream kingdom
These do not appear:
There, the eyes are
Sunlight on a broken column
There, is a tree swinging
And voices are
In the wind's singing
More distant and more solemn
Than a fading star.

Let me be no nearer
In death's dream kingdom
Let me also wear
Such deliberate disguises
Rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves
In a field
Behaving as the wind behaves
No nearer -

Not that final meeting
In the twilight kingdom

III

This is the dead land
This is the cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.

Is it like this
In death's other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
From prayers to broken stone.

IV

The eyes are not here
There are no eyes here
In this valley of dying stars
In this hollow valley
This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms

In this last of meeting places
We grope together
And avoid speech
Gathered on this beach of the tumid river

Sightless, unless
The eyes reappear
As the perpetual star
Multifoliate rose
Of death's twilight kingdom
The hope only
Of empty men.

V

Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o'clock in the morning.

Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
Life is very long

Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
For Thine is the Kingdom

For Thine is
Life is
For Thine is the

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.

- T. S. Eliot
"The Hollow Men", 1925

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


#1, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by Verbena on Sep-07-06 at 11:18 PM
In response to message #0
So they're being invaded by the Necron? =) (can you tell I'm on a Dawn of War kick right now?)

No, seriously, I've seen bits and pieces of this quoted before, but never the whole thing. Clearly, Day of Infamy was only the beginning--the weakness in civilization brought about by that civil war will be the starting point for something far more dangerous....and even more telling, something that makes civilization despair. There's a lot of threats at the periphery of civilization, outside the galaxy. The Pfhor, the Covenant, that Marvel robot that tried to kill Paige Guthrie et al., whoever has Kei prisoner. All, presumably under the secret direction of Surtur. Could the Experts and allies deal with one? Sure. Two? Probably. All of them at once?

Time to update those wills and insurance policies...

Or, hell, I could be seeing all this totally wrong. But I doubt it.

"They say one should not speak unkindly of the dead, so I say, 'nice try'." --Lezard


#2, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by Chris Redfield on Sep-08-06 at 06:03 PM
In response to message #1
>There's a lot of threats at the periphery of civilization, outside the galaxy.
>The Pfhor, the Covenant, that Marvel robot that tried to kill Paige
>Guthrie et al., whoever has Kei prisoner.

I've always gathered that the Pfor were the ones who grabbed Kei. Not that the list of baddies gets much shorter because of that...


-------------------------------------
Chris can't handle chemicals


#3, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by jadmire on Sep-08-06 at 08:10 PM
In response to message #1
This also reminds me of Yeats' "The Second Coming", which Kate recited to Utena long ago when the latter first told the former of her trials in Cephiro. This passage in particular springs to mind:

The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle.
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?

To get Biblical for a moment, it is starting to seem as if the Federation Civil War is going to prove merely to be "the beginning of sorrows".

-Joe-


#4, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by Gryphon on Sep-08-06 at 11:01 PM
In response to message #3
>The darkness drops again; but now I know
>That twenty centuries of stony sleep
>Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle.
>And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
>Slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?

Interestingly, "Bethlehem" scans the same as "Avalon".

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


#6, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by jadmire on Sep-09-06 at 05:41 PM
In response to message #4
That "multifoliate rose" line in "The Hollow Men" is also _very_ creepy, considering the subject at hand...

-Joe-


#10, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by trigger on Sep-11-06 at 07:45 PM
In response to message #6
>That "multifoliate rose" line in "The Hollow Men" is also _very_
>creepy, considering the subject at hand...

You can say that again. It kind of explains where the Order of the Black Rose may be going.


In the UF context, the correlations lifts both the original Eliot poem and the RGU order out of the realms of adolescent angst and into something much darker and more serious.

I was wondering how you would do that without it becoming a CW soap opera. Thanks. Pre-foreshadowing helps.

cheers,

t.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++-++

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"If we are marked to die, we are enough
To do our country loss; and if to live,
The fewer men, the greater the share of honour
God's will I pray thee wish not one man more" - Henry V, Act, IV Scene III


#11, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by jadmire on Sep-12-06 at 08:49 PM
In response to message #10
And consider this...

Life is very long

This makes me wonder if, in the post-FI era, some of the Detians may be going to face implications of their effective immortality they hadn't previously considered.

-Joe-


#12, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by Apostate_Soul on Sep-14-06 at 07:22 PM
In response to message #6

I can't help but idly wonder if we're going to see a Lord Soth turn up in the Black Rose order...
____________________

"It's difficult keeping up with the cross-continuity, but I think Cosmouse just gave The Saturnian Scraphunter his Ultimate Pacifier to use against Galactapuss..."


#13, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by Gryphon on Sep-14-06 at 09:31 PM
In response to message #12
>I can't help but idly wonder if we're going to see a Lord Soth turn up
>in the Black Rose order...

No.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


#5, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by Meagen on Sep-09-06 at 05:02 AM
In response to message #1
>Could the Experts and allies deal with
>one? Sure. Two? Probably. All of them at once?
>
>Time to update those wills and insurance policies...

http://www.arthurkingoftimeandspace.com/0787.htm


#9, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by Raptor on Sep-09-06 at 10:56 PM
In response to message #1
Dawn of War rocks. Bow before the might of the Eldar.

It does look like the Good Guys are screwed, don't it? And with Earthforce blown to heck, Starfeet destroyed or at the very least crippled, our list of allies grows thin.

By the way, am I the only one who was incredably creeped out by the final lines of the poem? I think things just got worse.

*ahem* WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!

P.S: The next DoW expansion is coming! Soon!


#7, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by Zatch on Sep-09-06 at 06:41 PM
In response to message #0
Speaking of Eliot, it just occured to me that Raven could say "I'll show you fear in a handful of dust," and really mean it.

The epigraph from Heart of Darkness gives me visions of a mission to a remote planet to find a deranged Earthforce commander, but that's just the epigraph and probably has no bearing on anything.


#8, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by Gryphon on Sep-09-06 at 07:35 PM
In response to message #7
>Speaking of Eliot, it just occured to me that Raven could say "I'll
>show you fear in a handful of dust," and really mean it.

Indeed, that whole line is very Raven-in-a-bad-mood:

And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


#14, RE: pre-foreshadowing
Posted by SpottedKitty on Sep-17-06 at 04:20 PM
In response to message #0
This poem creeped me out just a little bit when it came up in English class at school, fartoomany years ago. Thanks for reminding me why... =)

(BTW, imagining Raven reciting it definitely encanced the effect.)

--
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