This is a bit of a thought experiment/game for the folks who are a tad rabid about all things UF. Think of it as an online scav hunt.

So the new story (thanks Geoff!!) on the Forum had me wondering about who remains fictional within the UF universe.

For example Sabertooth is "real" but Peter Wimsey is "fictional" - right? And we know this because Sabertooth walks and talks, while Devlin Carter uses Wimsey as a model of blithering idiot.

We know that Corwin Ravenhair is real, but Corwin of Amber is not because CR is named after the character (see SOS).

So what else in UF is "fictional" that might have otherwise been pretty good source material? To keep it real, let's only use materials that appear in UF as fictional - don't go making stuff up!

And don't reference shows/music/writing that appears in UF as biography or entertainment - that means you cannot cite Agent A-ko because in UF she has a tv show that's vaguely based on her life. It's got to be something that even in the UF remains fictional (i.e. not based on people living or dead in UF).

Off the top of my head:

(1) Anything from Amber that isn't Julian (from SOS)
(2) Zorro (from the ACROSS episode when the reports burst in on Agent A in SOS)
(3) The Peter Wimsey Novels by DL Sayers (SOS)
(4) Muj'a bortaS (aka Battlecruiser Vengance, created by John Ford, from SOS)
(5) The Hornblower novels (SOS)
(6) Bugs Bunny (SOS)
(7) The Princess Bride (SOS)

any others?
t.

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - HST

LAST EDITED ON May-06-09 AT 02:13 AM (EDT)
 
You can probably add the Jack Aubrey novels to the list, but the tricky thing with the UF universe is that you can never really be certain that anything even a bit folkloric - Zorro, Captains Hornblower and Aubrey, or the Red Book of Westmarch, just to use an example you didn't touch on - doesn't really have a basis of fact behind it, albeit often, as with the Red Book, one that the general public of Midgard doesn't know about.

"Hornblower", for instance, is the name of a well-established vættir clan, mostly to be found in the western Shire; they're even mentioned (albeit only in passing) in the Red Book*.

Still, don't let that cramp the thought experiment. It'll be interesting to me to see what people come up with...

--G.
*(I didn't make that up, either.)
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

LAST EDITED ON May-06-09 AT 05:19 AM (EDT)
 
Here's a rather tricky/complicated possibility.

In Twilight 7/"Fanfare for an Exiled Prince", Gryphon and R-Type quote a bit of dialogue from Ghostbusters, with the implication - at the time that scene was written, anyway - that Ghostbusters is fictional. However, we find out later, in one of the Raven stories (the title escapes me, but it's the one where she goes on a date with Etrigan) that the Ghostbusters do exist in the UFverse. ?? (Then again, there's a reference to the Spengler scale elsewhere in SotS, so this example may not meet the criteria after all...unless the UF-era Ghostbusters and the measurement borrowed from the 20th-century movie!)

-Joe-

That one's actually easy to patch. The guys in the Raven/The Demon Special aren't the Ghostbusters.

We know Egon Spengler was a real person - the measurement for life force in synthesized entities is the Spengler Flux, after all - and we've had references to Ray Stantz here and there. Therefore, we pull out of the Ghostbusters Cartoon that the movie was a stylized version of a dimensional kerboom at some point, and thus is now quotable.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"

LAST EDITED ON May-06-09 AT 10:34 PM (EDT)
 
>We know Egon Spengler was a real person

And from Scrapheap Shuffle we know a) that UF-Gryphon knew Spengler -- he mistakes Ido for Egon the first time they meet, and continues to call him "Egon" for the rest of the story -- and b) because he mistakes Ido for Egon, we know that it's the animated Ghostbusters which exist in the UFVerse -- because Ido looks nothing like Harold Ramis, and a whole lot like his animated counterpart.

-- Bob
-------------------
Five years ago I was a four-stone apology. Today I am two separate gorillas.

I'm assuming Girl Genius is fictional, since the only reference was somewhat frivolous (in a CSI story). Unless it's a historical drama, of course.

I seem to recall there being a mention of a Heterodyne incursion from another dimension somewhere, but I have no idea where it might be, or if it's just a product of my imagination.

Polychrome

>I seem to recall there being a mention of a Heterodyne incursion from
>another dimension somewhere, but I have no idea where it might be, or

It's not your imagination, but those Heterodynes (extradimensional alien beings, later used as the basis for Big Fire's K-Units) come from the anime series "Dai-Guard," not anything related to "Girl Genius."

Slarti

Does mentioning the BaconMedia universe count, or does that get too meta?

We know that Burger King ads still occurred, with the ring joke back awhile ago.

There is no reason to not allow the Burger King ads in.

Except the modern ones which are creepy as all fucking hell

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"

Are we talking the square-butt kids meal ads as creepy, or the 'WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW' King ads?

>Are we talking the square-butt kids meal ads as creepy, or the 'WHERE
>IS YOUR GOD NOW' King ads?

<throws his hands up in the universal "you zee vhat I have to VORK vith, Mr. Napier" gesture>

Does it matter?

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

One of the multiple times I'm overjoyed with the BBC...

No ads. Ever. Well, except for their own programs, but that doesn't really count. Which means, as I don't watch all that much TV, I have absolutely no idea what these fast food adverts entail. Which I have gathered is desirable.

Getting back on topic, I suppose that an additional problem with determining what is fictitious and what is not in regards to the UF Universe is that one (for the most part) cannot know whether the thing in question is deemed fictional or is just something our lords and masters haven't got round to crowbaring in yet.

At a guess, I'd say Rumpole Of The Bailey was fictional, due to Moose MacEchearn's calling Kaitlyn 'She Who Must Be Obeyed'. Though Rumpole might just be a famous lawyer on Hoffman. It is all but impossible to tell, and the only way to find out is to ask.

>Are we talking the square-butt kids meal ads as creepy, or the 'WHERE
>IS YOUR GOD NOW' King ads?

YES.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"

The square-butt ads are Wedge's office's mad creation.

Ard Collier
that Janice chick
Usual Suspect and general menace

Well, its not so much who is Fictional anymore, but rather, who is completely fictional (Like Lil Tiki) and who's exploits are retellings of actual events?

I'm just going to throw out a suggestion here: Hanna Montana.

Complete work of fiction. Unless of course she was picked up in the early days of the WDF and is now secretly a samurai or something.

Um, I was looking for within the text (i.e. is mentioned in UF) fictional creation that are mentioned or treated as fiction by the UF characters. As far as I recall, there has been no reference to High School Musical or the twee-boy/girl/band/child-slaves in UF. So I think it doesn't work.

cheers,
t.
who has been traveling and needs to comment more. Thanks to everyone who is playing!

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - HST

As far as I recall, there has been no reference to High
>School Musical or the twee-boy/girl/band/child-slaves in UF. So I
>think it doesn't work.

...Only because they're not accepting new authors. Alas, the world will never see my Hanna Montana/Jonas Brothers Lensmen Two-in-One comic.

Jumping back on-topic, I reckon the works of A.A. Milne are still fiction, judging by the reaction to Nall's Tigger costume in SotS.

LAST EDITED ON May-13-09 AT 00:36 AM (EDT)
 
>...Only because they're not accepting new authors. Alas, the world
>will never see my Hanna Montana/Jonas Brothers Lensmen Two-in-One
>comic.

And every being in the universe breathed a deep and reverent sigh of relief, and God took his finger off the 'detonate universe' button.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"

>>...Only because they're not accepting new authors. Alas, the world
>>will never see my Hanna Montana/Jonas Brothers Lensmen Two-in-One
>>comic.
>
>And every being in the universe breathed a deep and reverent sigh of
>relief, and God took his finger off the 'detonate universe' button.

Well, there was that time Paige Guthrie had to go undercover as a Teeth-Softeningly Sweet Teen Idol in order to break what is still sometimes known by the quaint and inaccurate 19th-century term "white slavery ring". But Paige really, really doesn't like to talk about that. Even if she did have the #1 pop single in the Federation for 17 weeks.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>Well, there was that time Paige Guthrie had to go undercover as
>a Teeth-Softeningly Sweet Teen Idol in order to break what is still
>sometimes known by the quaint and inaccurate 19th-century term "white
>slavery ring". But Paige really, really doesn't like to talk
>about that. Even if she did have the #1 pop single in the
>Federation for 17 weeks.

Add a Billy-Ray Cyrus cameo and you'll have yourself a reader.

>Add a Billy-Ray Cyrus cameo and you'll have yourself a reader.

Keep in mind that if we did that, the odds are good that it'd be a cameo in which someone hunts him down and kills him.

Slarti
"Will there be titty?"

"Isn't this against the code?"
"No Caboose, now let me take my shot."

>"Isn't this against the code?"
>"No Caboose, now let me take my shot."

Bullet through the Achey Breaky Heart.

>
>Well, there was that time Paige Guthrie had to go undercover as
>a Teeth-Softeningly Sweet Teen Idol in order to break what is still
>sometimes known by the quaint and inaccurate 19th-century term "white
>slavery ring". But Paige really, really doesn't like to talk
>about that. Even if she did have the #1 pop single in the
>Federation for 17 weeks.
>
>--G.

I'm hoping that this isn't a joke. I don't even need to see any more of the story. This works just fine as background that Paige refuses to talk about.

Peter Eng
--
I'm only a Charter Member because of the DCForum upgrade, and because there's no rank below "Clueless F!wit."

>Well, there was that time Paige Guthrie had to go undercover as
>a Teeth-Softeningly Sweet Teen Idol in order to break what is still
>sometimes known by the quaint and inaccurate 19th-century term "white
>slavery ring". But Paige really, really doesn't like to talk
>about that. Even if she did have the #1 pop single in the
>Federation for 17 weeks.

And the internal UF trope known as "I'm With The Band" raises its head once again. <grin>

-- Bob
-------------------
Five years ago I was a four-stone apology. Today I am two separate gorillas.

>But Paige really, really doesn't like to talk
>about that. Even if she did have the #1 pop single in the
>Federation for 17 weeks.

Which means that Jubilation must "idly" hum it in her presence at least once a month. At least.

>>But Paige really, really doesn't like to talk
>>about that. Even if she did have the #1 pop single in the
>>Federation for 17 weeks.
>
>Which means that Jubilation must "idly" hum it in her presence at
>least once a month. At least.

"Oops, Paige. You did it again."

"Gawd, Ah hate you. Ah hate you so much."

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

LAST EDITED ON May-15-09 AT 08:40 AM (EDT)
 
Well, better Britney than Taylor Swift or some such...

So long as she didn't absolutely murder Hallelujah for that single, I'm happy. Mitch Benn obviously wouldn't've been picked up by Project Hero, so the Buckleyite impetus would've lost considerable momentum on that score.

Here's one:

Again, it's questionable whether it's a fictional character or a recounting of a historic person, but Kei mentions Dirty Harry back in S1M2.

Buffy Anne Summers is mentioned near the end of Code Name: Ultra.

Peter Eng
--
I'm only a Charter Member because of the DCForum upgrade, and because there's no rank below "Clueless F!wit."

I think we can add Sherlock Holmes to the fictional list. None of Conan Doyle's folk appear, but I there has been enough references flying around to make it possible. That and I trust that Guy Ritchie hasn't inspired anything....

Also, Monty Python's Flying Cirus---as a comedy show that people watched in the past.

cheers,
t.

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - HST

LAST EDITED ON May-21-09 AT 09:48 AM (EDT)
 
>That and I trust that Guy Ritchie hasn't inspired anything....

I speak only for myself, but I have to admit to a sense of confusion and possible revulsion inspired by him.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"

>That and I trust that Guy Ritchie hasn't inspired anything....

Certainly not. The movie's not out yet.

Ardie and I are actually kinda jazzed about the movie, though the trailer that just released bugs me on the 'wow, could they have stolen more things from the Iron Man trailer?' level. This doesn't automatically have anything to do with the movie itself, as many times trailers are cut by a completely different company than anyone actually working on the film, and can be totally driven by Marketing.

That being said, I've never exactly been a Guy Ritchie fan, though to be fair, I've never actually *seen* any of his movies, that's how much of not being a fan I was. I was also not a J.J. Abrams fan before two weeks ago, either. It feels like that kind of summer. :)

	Chad Collier Smirking Kilrathi The Captain of the Gravy Train

Point of order? Holmes is out on Christmas. Not that that will stop us from going.

Also, if John Rogers ever does get a greenlight to do his all-female Holmes/ Watson story where Holmes is still a giant opium smoker and Watson's got all the martial arts under her belt, I will totally be there for that too.

Ard Collier
that Janice chick
Usual Suspect and general menace

>Point of order? Holmes is out on Christmas. Not that that will stop
>us from going.

Oh. Bugger. And here I was all excited. This can only be solved by watching Star Trek again tomorrow night.

	Chad Collier Smirking Kilrathi The Captain of the Gravy Train

>Oh. Bugger. And here I was all excited. This can only be solved by
>watching Star Trek again tomorrow night.

Indeed. Good thing we're already set up to do that!

yes, everyone, this is the fifth time; no, really, we have a good reason, our dear friend and sometime NXE translation expert Dave hasn't gotten to see the movie yet

Ard Collier
that Janice chick
Usual Suspect and general menace

Of course there's a good reason, milady. Keep telling yourself that...

Also, an exchange between me and my friend Richard, during the cinematic extravaganza of fantabulous wonderment on Wednesday night that may amuse some of you:

Me: I think that Sylar makes the best Spock ever.
Richard : Hmm, I'm not so sure. I'm not too keen on the delivery of his lines...
Me: Delivery?
Richard: Mmmm, yeah, it seems a little off.
Me: Uh... has he actually been saying stuff? Could not tell... on an unrelated note, I appear to have picked up a pointy-ears fetish.
Richard: I will now beat you with my hat.

He then beat me with his hat.

>Of course there's a good reason, milady. Keep telling yourself that...
>Me: I think that Sylar makes the best Spock ever.
>Richard : Hmm, I'm not so sure. I'm not
>too keen on the delivery of his lines...
>Me: Delivery?
>Richard: Mmmm, yeah, it seems a little off.
>Me: Uh... has he actually been saying stuff? Could not tell... on an
>unrelated note, I appear to have picked up a pointy-ears fetish.
>Richard: I will now beat you with my hat.
>
>He then beat me with his hat.

Speaking of pointy ears and fetishes..

http://www.postmodernbarney.com/2009/05/it-could-have-been-worse/

_____________________________________________
"Walls are meant to be broken." - makes sense both figuratively and literally.

>I think we can add Sherlock Holmes to the fictional list.

It's fairly well-established in Crossroads that Edison Bell was Sherlock Holmes, but on the other hand, that was before the event my Stross-influenced brain now insists on calling the Singularity; it may have been undone.

--G.
(yes, I know that makes Gryphon the Eschaton in some warped fashion. sort of.)
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>>I think we can add Sherlock Holmes to the fictional list.
>
>It's fairly well-established in Crossroads that Edison Bell was
>Sherlock Holmes, but on the other hand, that was before the event my
>Stross-influenced brain now insists on calling the Singularity; it may
>have been undone.
>

AH! I should have remembered. Oh these little gray cells, they ain't what they used to be.

t.

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - HST

This thread's lain for a few days, but I just had one occur to me.

IF Gryph doesn't TOTALLY throw out EVERYTHING from Day of Infamy, then we can assume that the Honorverse books are NOT fictional (at least, in part), because I distinctly remember a reference to the Manticore Star Navy helping to clear Enigma Sector. Once my (admittedly wierd) memory supplied this information, I got a neat little thrill imagining Utena et al. on one of the summer Valiant cruises getting invited to dine with the Salamander herself.

LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-09 AT 07:48 AM (EDT)
 
>This thread's lain for a few days, but I just had one occur to me.
>
>IF Gryph doesn't TOTALLY throw out EVERYTHING from Day of
>Infamy, then we can assume that the Honorverse books are
>NOT fictional (at least, in part), because I distinctly remember a
>reference to the Manticore Star Navy helping to clear Enigma Sector.
>Once my (admittedly wierd) memory supplied this information, I got a
>neat little thrill imagining Utena et al. on one of the summer
>Valiant cruises getting invited to dine with the Salamander
>herself.

Ooo, I can just see Gryph as honoured guest presenting the Kobyashi Maru scenario to the ATS Middies in one of Honor's famous after-dinner simulator events.

Gryph presenting it, of course, does the usual Honor trick of giving two messages -- the first one being the standard KM cliche about what you do when you can't win, the second being precisely what Honor does in these situations (and what Gryph did) and winning anyway by dint of hard work and determination.

(of course, I can't see Honor winning the KM without taking horrible ship damage and probably losing an appendage, but...)

S.

The collective conscious has concluded the following fictions in this universe are fictional in UF:

(1) Anything from Amber that isn't Julian
(2) Zorro
(3) Peter Wimsey novels
(4) Muj'a bortaS (aka Battlecruiser Vengance)
(5) Hornblower novels
(6) Bugs Bunny
(7) The Princess Bride
(8) Aubrey & Mautrin novels
(9) Rumpole Of The Bailey
(10) Dirty Harry
(11) Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Sources that might be fictional but we don't know because they aren't actually in the work but were mentioned in the posts:
(1) Girl Genius

UF Universe fiction that does not appear in this universe:
(1) Lil Tiki

...color me amazed. I would have thunk there was more fictional stuff in UF esp. given how...colorful...the characters are. And how much "pop-culture" they absorb within their own Universe. No wonder we all enjoy reading it so much - the UF universe is so interesting that it doesn't appear to need much fiction...

boggled (and sleep deprived, did I mention the sleep deprivation?),
t.

Trigger Argee
trigger_argee@hotmail.com
Manon, Maccadon, Orado, etc.
Denton, never leave home without it.

"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - HST

>...color me amazed. I would have thunk there was more fictional stuff
>in UF esp. given how...colorful...the characters are. And how much
>"pop-culture" they absorb within their own Universe. No wonder we all
>enjoy reading it so much - the UF universe is so interesting that it
>doesn't appear to need much fiction...
>
Note that :

a) Where we have things like Marvel (who make up stories about made-up superheroes), UF has Bacon Comics (who possibly make up and possibly just tell stories about real superheroes).

b) Some people (e.g. The Shadow) in UF were thought of as the characters as fictional but turn out to be real.

And in writing that second note I've remembered one you've not got -- Darkwing Duck, the inspiration for the Hammer costume.

S,

Back to the Future seems to be fiction, as Doc Mui built himself a DeLorean, and he and Marty Rose ape the movie, but I don't recall Dr. Emmett Brown or Marty McFly ever appearing. Or did I miss it?

And both the Honorverse and Vorkosigan references were all Redneck's doing, so unless one of the other Eryie people loves those universes like he does, I doubt we'll see any more of them; a long-ago post by Gryphon said, at the time, that he hadn't read them.