Not having looked at the Comixology app on my tablet in, oh, a couple of years, I belatedly noticed that last year DC threw up their hands and decided to start their universe over... again. That is a year or two ahead of when I assumed they were going to when they did it the last time, from which I infer that the "new 52" worked out even less well than I thought it would.

I haven't read anything other than the first-three-page samples of a few of the issue #1s (issues #1?), so I can't really say I have an impression of the new vibe yet. If anyone has been paying closer attention than I have (for which read "any at all," since as we just established I didn't even notice it had happened), feel free to fill in the class.

--G.
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I still use your term of "the Great UpFuck" when talking about them, but it seems to be happening much more often. I'm pretty sure it's because #1s sell about 5 times more issues than any other (mostly to "collectors" who want to sell them in 20 years and think they'll actually be worth something).
--------------
Lime2K
The One True Evil Overlord

>I still use your term of "the Great UpFuck" when talking about them,
>but it seems to be happening much more often.

Technically, the Great Upfuck was just my name for Whichever Crisis That Was, and the New 52 was the aftermath thereof, but it does all kind of blur together after a while.

--G.
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The best summary I can give is the New 52 tanked so hard it registered on the Richter scale, so DC seems to be re-retconning things to be "all that new 52 stuff was actually the result of villainous meddling, and now the heroes are figuring that out and things are gradually unfucking themselves."

For example, there's now a new new superman, who is actually the old superman from before the new superman, and the new new superman has somehow merged with the new superman and oh no I've gone crosseyed.

	-={(Astynax)}=- "Oh, and they are merging Watchmen lore into the main DC universe somehow."

>Oh, and they are merging Watchmen lore into the main DC universe
>somehow.

Ah. Because that's what was needed, surely.

--G.
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Pre-Flashfuckup Superman and Lois ended up in the Nu52 universe, and since there was already a Superman flying around, they settled down to focus on raising their son Jon. Then last year, Nu52 Superman died, so My Superman put the cape back on and started doing what he does best, while Jon became Superboy, and Lois generally proceeded to be awesome.

Then Mxy showed up, there was the usual nonsense of him messing with things, there was a Blue/Red Superman thing, blah blah blah...

But yeah, Mxy happened, and now the Lois And Clark I grew up with are firmly established as the Real Lois And Clark, and they're doing what they do best while Jon tends to be a pretty decent kid that has no patience for Damiens bullshit. Seriously, every time they meet is comedy gold, and the little brat usually comes out of it the loser.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

>Jon tends to be a pretty decent kid that has no
>patience for Damiens bullshit.

On a point of order, has anyone?

--G.
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>>Jon tends to be a pretty decent kid that has no
>>patience for Damiens bullshit.
>
>On a point of order, has anyone?

Well, Nightwing hasn't murdered him yet. But then, y'know, Dick Grayson is one of the nicest guys around. Jason Todd seems to enjoy annoying the hell out of him, and Lois didn't hesitate to use Mom Powers on him.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

Dick and Damien get along pretty well, actually, with the latter having mad respec' for "his" teammate.

>The best summary I can give is the New 52 tanked so hard it registered
>on the Richter scale, so DC seems to be re-retconning things to be
>"all that new 52 stuff was actually the result of villainous meddling,
>and now the heroes are figuring that out and things are gradually
>unfucking themselves."

Coupled to this, I just ran across a bit of marketing blurb from our old friend Geoff Johns in which his language is all about implying that Rebirth is about him cleaning up a mess that the previous creative lead left behind. The phrase "restoring what was lost" turned up.

That was, uh... him.

Unless he's a new Geoff Johns cleaning up after New 52 Geoff Johns, I suppose.

--G.
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>That was, uh... him.
>
>Unless he's a new Geoff Johns cleaning up after New 52 Geoff Johns, I
>suppose.

I wonder if someone's ever pointed out to him that, since Infinite Crisis, he's always been cleaning up after himself, not some fabled 'other guy'.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

>I wonder if someone's ever pointed out to him that, since Infinite
>Crisis, he's always been cleaning up after himself, not some fabled
>'other guy'.

I'm sure he'd prefer to think of it as refining his vision. Hell, I'm not in a position to kvetch too loud about that. I've never thrown away the entirety of a continuity and started over (with the arguable exception of Hopelessly Lost/The Iron Age, I suppose), but I'd be lying if I said I'd never entertained the notion.

Also: While snouting around at the beginnings of the Rebirth renumber series today, I noticed that a number of the New 52 series (the ones that went the distance and weren't canceled within the first couple years) ended their runs at #52. I doubt DC has the capacity to have planned the whole thing in advance (or not to brag about it if they had), but I also doubt that can possibly be a coincidence.

--G.
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>Also: While snouting around at the beginnings of the Rebirth renumber
>series today, I noticed that a number of the New 52 series (the ones
>that went the distance and weren't canceled within the first couple
>years) ended their runs at #52. I doubt DC has the capacity to have
>planned the whole thing in advance (or not to brag about it if they
>had), but I also doubt that can possibly be a coincidence.

Not a coincidence, no. The last attempt to boost sales had been in the late 30s, early 40s of the run, and it crashed and burned incredibly painfully, so they were desperately trying to glue things back together at the same time their favourite number came up.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

The best thing I can say about DC Rebirth is that it is SLIGHTLY less bad than the new 52. But the only relaunch book I can stand right now is SUPER SONS, and even it is on the fence.

LAST EDITED ON May-15-17 AT 07:08 PM (EDT)
 
... I miss Firestorm. The original '80s Firestorm, from when part of the brief was that the creator specifically wanted it to be fun, before they changed writers and the new guy decided no, we can't have that, nuclear energy is SRS BSNS after all. Of course, by then DC already had a Tortured Nuclear Hero, the utterly luckless revamp of Captain Atom, but don't go by me.

--G.
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You know what I miss? When superheroes got together for something OTHER than an earth-shattering crisis.

Cookouts, baseball games, poker night....

(Admittedly, those often ENDED in earth-shattering crises, but they didn't START that way.)

>You know what I miss? When superheroes got together for something
>OTHER than an earth-shattering crisis.

LOIS
Umm, how can I put this? I was just thinking... it might be nice to see each other when I wasn't... I dunno, falling out a window or something. Not that I'm not grateful for all the times you've helped me, you understand.

SUPERMAN
I understand.

LOIS
You do?

Something EXPLODES in the background.

SUPERMAN
It's the First National Bank.

LOIS
You better go. People might--

SUPERMAN flies off.

LOIS
--get hurt.

LOIS walks away, muttering to herself.

LOIS
"I understand, Lois." Really, you do? "Yup, you're a complete moron." Why thank you, Superman, I think I'm a total loser too. Jeez.

--G.
Also: "Helloooo Bat Cave! The party may now officially commence!"
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>You know what I miss? When superheroes got together for something
>OTHER than an earth-shattering crisis.
>
>Cookouts, baseball games, poker night....
>

Thanksgiving?

I'm not fond of Geoff Johns as Grand Writer Of All Things, but give him the JSA and he's pretty good. He had one where the JLA and JSA got together for Thanksgiving.

Batman spent the whole issue being paranoid over the inevitable super-villain attack, which was dealt with in one panel of arrival, one off-panel brawl, and cleanup. Everybody else was busy with character development.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.

I almost posted that scene, but the luau was funnier. ;)

LAST EDITED ON May-15-17 AT 10:55 PM (EDT)
 
I was actually thinking more along the lines of this bit, from JLA/Avengers #3:

Luau, anyone?

Oh my God, Sue's shirt.

Today, on 'No One Respects Damien.'

Alfred: Hnn. At least when Master Richard snuck out, he had the decency to construct a pillow dummy.

Damien: I'm better than Batman in every way.
Jon: No, you're not. You're Robin, a thirteen year old kid living in his house and working out of his cave and using all his stuff. You're not the one the bad guys are scared of. It's Batman.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

Honestly, the only thing wrong with this page is that Jon's fist isn't coming out of Damian's back.

--G.
Seriously, fuck Damian.
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I don't think torsos should bend like that, so perhaps most of his lower intestines just got blasted out of his back.

>I don't think torsos should bend like that, so perhaps most of his
>lower intestines just got blasted out of his back.

No such luck, alas.

--G.
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Jon follows his parents rules. Clark's 'thou shalt not kill', and Lois's 'nothing wrong with a little maiming.'

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

>Jon follows his parents rules. Clark's 'thou shalt not kill', and
>Lois's 'nothing wrong with a little maiming.'

Eh, they're in the Bat Cave. He wouldn't die. Permanently.

--G.
"He's young. He'll probably walk again."
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As Gilbert Godfree said in Aladdin 2. "You'd be surprised what you can live through."

>Seriously, fuck Damian.

Well, in all honesty, given the rest of his family, I think Damien turned out better than average. I mean, his mother is an obsessive crazy woman and his grandfather is an immortal loon (Or as Chris Dee calls him: "The Haircut"). Damien's just a snotty, arrogant punk.

I suppose they thought that, since Dick was the Acrobatic Robin, Jason was the Rough-N-Tumble Robin, and Tim was the Detective Robin, they needed a Jerkass Robin. (Though Jason does a pretty good job of that.)

Ebony the Black Dragon

"Life is like an anole. Sometimes it's green. Sometimes it's brown. But it's always a small Caribbean lizard."

Being 'better than average' doesn't mean he's not an intolerable little shitsock.

>(Or as Chris Dee calls him: "The Haircut").

Err, the HairDO Eb.

> Damien's just a snotty, arrogant punk.
>
>I suppose they thought that, since Dick was the Acrobatic Robin, Jason
>was the Rough-N-Tumble Robin, and Tim was the Detective Robin, they
>needed a Jerkass Robin.

However, I can totally sympathise with those who view Damien as a 'Whole ARSE'
Robin as compared to an Arse WHOLE.

>Honestly, the only thing wrong with this page is that Jon's fist isn't
>coming out of Damian's back.

After the latest Titans story arc, I needed this image.

Fuck Damian.

Also, fuck Slade Wilson and his 'god-mode badass' bullshit writers keep pulling.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

If we're piling on the Damien hate train here... I don't understand him or his purpose.

I mean... okay. The concept is sound. Talia al'Ghul has a kid with Batman and just doesn't tell him for awhile, and now the kid is kind of fucked up because "raised by the League of Assassins" will do that to you, but because of his million and one psychological issues surrounding his family Batman has he's not capable of engaging productively with his son, who needs different things from him than his other kids ever needed. Especially because he suspects said son may not actually be a good person, although he's reluctant to judge someone so young.

That's a good concept! It ties heavily into the Bat-family side of the mythos, and it introduces a kid that lets you do "there but for the grace of god went Bruce" parallels.

Only... that's not what they're doing? I would say about half the writers who get their hands on him are convinced Damien is awesome, or at least that he's almost always right, which entirely justifies him being a colossal jerk. Because his dad is a colossal jerk too, right? It's a family thing!

(These people fundamentally misunderstand Batman, by the way. Batman isn't a jerk. Batman is merely emotionally unavailable about 75% of the time, and is entirely aware of this fact. But one of Batman's most defining characteristics is his enormous, boundless empathy. It's the thing he has most in common with Superman, in fact.)

It's like people thought what the Bat-mythos needed, REALLY needed, was a "good guy" character who has Frank Castle's basic approach to crime and punishment if he weren't being, barely, held in check by Batman. We already had that guy! We had TWO of that guy if you count Jean-Paul Valley!

And it didn't need that. It just... didn't. Damien isn't emotionally or morally equipped to be a masked vigilante, he just gets by because of who his dad is. Which would be fine, that's an okay thing to explore, but the narrative doesn't seem to realize that's how he comes off as.

-Merc
Keep Rat

There's been some good writers on the topic of Damien, and he works best when teamed up with certain characters.

With Bruce, it's Damien trying to understand a legacy he's determined to inherit, and Bruce is trying to file down the ego remove some of the nonsense Talia put in there.

Alfred is Damiens grandfather, and Damien KNOWS IT.

With Dick, it's Batman and Robin, with the cheerful and angry roles reversed. It's also about two brothers trying to find understanding and common ground, and at this point, Dick is likely the most important person in Damiens life. Part of my problem with the recent Titans arc was how badly these two interacting was messed up.

Tim has little patience for Damiens shit, and the two should not be left alone unsupervised.

Steph's sheer love of life confuses and scares Damien, and she hit on the understanding of him better than anyone else. "He has no idea how to be a kid."

Jason has embraced the role of asshole older brother with a passion. I remember a recent issue that had Bruce and the Robins meeting at a Not!McDonalds, where Jason steals Damiens happy meal toy between panels, and they spend the rest of the scene wrestling while everyone else pretends they don't know them.

Jon really doesn't get along with Damien, and would like to know why the little bastard keeps annoying him. He also got in one of the best burns on the kid ever.

He's a little shit, but some writers can make him a fun little shit. Others fail hilariously.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

This post right here.

LAST EDITED ON Jun-10-17 AT 02:19 PM (EDT)
 
>There's been some good writers on the topic of Damien, and he works
>best when teamed up with certain characters.

Note, however, that none of those characters are the rest of the cast of Teen Titans. (Or the other Titans, evidently.)

>Alfred is Damiens grandfather, and Damien KNOWS IT.

If I had treated my grandfather like that when I was 10, where my father could see me do it, they would never have found my body, and I would have deserved it. I'm just saying.

>With Dick, it's Batman and Robin, with the cheerful and angry roles
>reversed. It's also about two brothers trying to find understanding
>and common ground, and at this point, Dick is likely the most
>important person in Damiens life.

This probably explains why Damian comes as close as he can come to being tolerable (which is not that close, IMO) when he appears in Nightwing.

>Tim has little patience for Damiens shit, and the two should not be
>left alone unsupervised.

Or they totally should. Depending on your point of view. Did they get Tim out of the Beyonder's coat closet yet? Speaking of which:

>Steph's sheer love of life confuses and scares Damien, and she hit on
>the understanding of him better than anyone else. "He has no idea how
>to be a kid."

Steph didn't have a lot of that left the last time I saw her, which is why I looked into the new run of Detective and then almost immediately looked out again.

>Jason has embraced the role of asshole older brother with a passion.

Hey, when you've got a niche...

>Jon really doesn't get along with Damien, and would like to know why
>the little bastard keeps annoying him. He also got in one of the best
>burns on the kid ever.

Although unfortunately not with his heat vision.

--G.
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>Note, however, that none of those characters are the rest of the cast
>of Teen Titans. (Or the other Titans, evidently.)

How the hell Starfire hasn't blasted him yet, I don't know.

>If I had treated my grandfather like that when I was 10, where my
>father could see me do it, they would never have found my body, and I
>would have deserved it. I'm just saying.

Oh, definitely. Bruce needs to smarten up.

>>Tim has little patience for Damiens shit, and the two should not be
>>left alone unsupervised.
>
>Or they totally should. Depending on your point of view. Did they
>get Tim out of the Beyonder's coat closet yet? Speaking of which:

Sadly no.

>Steph didn't have a lot of that left the last time I saw her, which is
>why I looked into the new run of Detective and then almost
>immediately looked out again.

Yeah, I still apply her Batgirl days. She started to do it again in Detective Comics, then got grumpy again. Hmph.

That said, her encounter with Scarecrow just before Rebirth was a thing of beauty.

"Oh, hang on. Was that stuff you trying to mess with me?"

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

>That said, her encounter with Scarecrow just before Rebirth was a
>thing of beauty.
>
>"Oh, hang on. Was that stuff you trying to mess with me?"

I haven't seen that, but I have long assumed that if the current-FI version of Harley Quinn ran into her old frenemy Dr. Crane, that is more or less how it would go. "Wait, was that thing with Mista J comin' back ta get even wit' me s'poseta scare me? 'Cause I had that dream every night f'the first four years I was in Blackgate. Not gonna lie, it's kinda boring now."

--G.
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>>That said, her encounter with Scarecrow just before Rebirth was a
>>thing of beauty.
>>
>>"Oh, hang on. Was that stuff you trying to mess with me?"
>
>I haven't seen that, but I have long assumed that if the current-FI
>version of Harley Quinn ran into her old frenemy Dr. Crane, that is
>more or less how it would go. "Wait, was that thing with Mista J
>comin' back ta get even wit' me s'poseta scare me? 'Cause I had that
>dream every night f'the first four years I was in Blackgate. Not
>gonna lie, it's kinda boring now."

Crane was in a cell and Steph was guarding him because someone was after him for Evil Plot of the Week, so she was using the chance to practise some moves Nightwing taught her. He tried various comments to undermine her ego, didn't really get anywhere. It took a page or two before she even noticed it wasn't a casual conversation.

"I thought you'd be faster at that by now. What would Nightwing say if he saw you trying to imitate him?"
"Probably give me a tip about my stance. He linked me to a few videos earlier, but physical coaching never hurts."

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

Wow. The current Green Lanterns pretty much are Employee 2814, except she's actually more competent than they are, somehow.

--G.
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>Wow. The current Green Lanterns pretty much are Employee 2814, except
>she's actually more competent than they are, somehow.
>

Simon Baz and whatever-her-name-is? Yeah, they're supposed to be great, and at one point Simon actually did something no other GL did, but other then that, they're GLs more by editorial declaration than by writing. Reminds me a bit of the old Kyle Rayner editorial mandate.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.

>>Wow. The current Green Lanterns pretty much are Employee 2814, except
>>she's actually more competent than they are, somehow.
>>
>
>Simon Baz and whatever-her-name-is? Yeah, they're supposed to be
>great, and at one point Simon actually did something no other GL did,
>but other then that, they're GLs more by editorial declaration than by
>writing. Reminds me a bit of the old Kyle Rayner editorial mandate.

"Hello, I'm Simon Baz, and I'm currently the worst Green Lantern in the galaxy."

(That in particular is a very Employee 2814 line. :)

--G.
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>
>"Hello, I'm Simon Baz, and I'm currently the worst Green Lantern in
>the galaxy."
>
>(That in particular is a very Employee 2814 line. :)
>

"Every Green Lantern in history has, at one point or another, said to him-, her-, or itself, 'You are the worst Green Lantern in the galaxy.'"

"Statistically speaking, one of them had to be right."

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.

I'd bet good money his name wasn't G'nort. :)

(Who actually WAS the worst GL in the galaxy... and that includes the one who was a zombie. :D )

LAST EDITED ON May-27-17 AT 04:32 AM (EDT)
 
>Wow. The current Green Lanterns pretty much are Employee 2814, except
>she's actually more competent than they are, somehow.

Well, if poor Jessica was actually given some proper damn training, she'd be alright. And probably bond with Employee 2814 over the Corps bosses not really thinking things through (Guardians, Hal, same thing here), and accidentally making a snarky ring. Plus, the fear she actually overcame to earn the ring is pretty damn nifty.

Simon is still trapped in his 'look at how relevant we are while not understanding the politics we're referencing' origin story.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter