First one: In this version of Norse cosmology, where do non-warriors go when they die? In the normal version, they go to Hel, whether they've been good or not, but that seems rather grim and dark for UF.

Second: Where do Cephirans go when they die?
They don't go to heaven where the angels fly
They don't go to the lake of fire and fry
As far as I can tell, they just go bye-bye.

In more serious terms, no Cephiran has been spotted in the ranks of Valhalla or in the dishonored dead. If they had, then certainly someone would have found out about them. Are their souls elsewhere, or do they just vanish?

Third: Surtur threatened to burn the Nine Worlds in fire, as the prophecy stated, but what would have happened to Cephiro if the Ragnarok had gone off as planned? It's not one of the Nine Worlds mentioned.

Don't have the authority to answer the first two, but for your third question, since Cephiro is tucked under the roots of the World-Tree, if it burns, so does Cephiro.

Either it would have just burned outright, or, since the dueling platform is the only thing attached to Cephiro that's not technically -in- it, that would have been destroyed, making it impossible to invest a new trinity. A bit slower death, but still all bad.

>First one: In this version of Norse cosmology, where do non-warriors
>go when they die? In the normal version, they go to Hel, whether
>they've been good or not, but that seems rather grim and dark for UF.

UF's Hel isn't bad. It's certainly nothing like Hell with two ls; that's Muspelheim (or Niflheim, depending on which circle of Dante's version you're thinking of). It's just not that interesting compared with Valhalla, which is really not a downside to most regular people.

(It's also worth noting that the definition of "warrior" is pretty broad, often to the point of being metaphorical, these days. I mean, you get guys like Tesla going to Valhalla, the only war he fought in life was against direct current. :)

>Second: Where do Cephirans go when they die?

Cephiro appears to have its own parallel afterlife, about which little is known. It's not nearly so simple for living persons to travel there (and back) as it is to wander among the Nine Worlds.

>Third: Surtur threatened to burn the Nine Worlds in fire, as the
>prophecy stated, but what would have happened to Cephiro if the
>Ragnarok had gone off as planned? It's not one of the Nine Worlds
>mentioned.

No, but it is in between two of them, so I would guess it would at least have sustained serious damage - in much the same way that the middle floors of a building that's been set on fire at the top and bottom would be in the ensuing blaze.

--G.
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Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

So, this is minor enough that I don't feel that it warrants a topic all its own, but it's still bugging me. What happens to Izanagi and Izanami, Horus and Hathor, Vishnu and Shiva? The first two-and their attendant myth-is the one that has been bothering me the most, but this can be extended to any deity or group thereof that fails to map well onto Norse myths and gods. After all, the Norse are decidedly lacking in undead primordial goddesses with eight thunder demons wriggling inside their corpses like maggots, who destroy a thousand humans every day!

>So, this is minor enough that I don't feel that it warrants a topic
>all its own, but it's still bugging me. What happens to Izanagi and
>Izanami, Horus and Hathor, Vishnu and Shiva?

Well, given that Gryphon has said that the Norse were the most right I would make a simple assumption:

Some peoples were less right enough to have been out and out wrong.

>After all, the Norse are decidedly
>lacking in undead primordial goddesses with eight thunder demons
>wriggling inside their corpses like maggots, who destroy a thousand
>humans every day!

I'm, uh... I have to say I'm OK with that.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

That being said, wasn't there a reference to Heliopolis at one point during Ragnarok?

>That being said, wasn't there a reference to Heliopolis at one point
>during Ragnarok?

That was Skuld being a smartass.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>>After all, the Norse are decidedly
>>lacking in undead primordial goddesses with eight thunder demons
>>wriggling inside their corpses like maggots, who destroy a thousand
>>humans every day!
>
>I'm, uh... I have to say I'm OK with that.
>
>--G.
>-><-
>Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
>Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
>Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

I take it you are not entirely familiar with the Japanese myth of the Male who Invites and Female who Invites, full of marriage, birth, death and terrible oaths to create and destroy life?

Specifically, Izanami is fun to ask about because some of her antics in the 'Shin Megami Tensai: Persona' universe would simply not have flown in a universe where the cops can call on the BRPD for a little help when murder victims appear strung up on TV antennae with no obvious COD. :D

>I take it you are not entirely familiar with the Japanese myth of the
>Male who Invites and Female who Invites, full of marriage, birth,
>death and terrible oaths to create and destroy life?

I'm not really familiar with Japanese myths, full stop, but no, I think I can safely say I've never heard of that one at all before. And it doesn't sound like my cup of tea, particularly.

I think that's why I like the Norse myths best, of those I've read and developed at least a passing familiarity with. Unlike the Greek ones, they don't have quite as many examples of angry people taking hideous, disproportionate revenge on the wrong parties in disputes (cf. all those cases in which Zeus rapes some hapless maiden, who is then further brutalized by a vengeful Hera for her trouble); unlike, say, the Hindi ones, they tend to make at least a little sense; and unlike the Abrahamic ones, they generally don't cause modern political figures to inconvenience me in various indirect ways. The Æsir just... haven't done that much to confuse or annoy me.

From what I've seen here and elsewhere, the Japanese ones seem like they would fit largely into category B, with a side helping of A ("hideous violence offered to people who don't really seem like they deserve it"). :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>From what I've seen here and elsewhere, the Japanese ones seem like
>they would fit largely into category B, with a side helping of A
>("hideous violence offered to people who don't really seem like they
>deserve it"). :)
>
>--G.

Well, that's less true than it is of the Greeks - Susano-o is only a jerk to his sister Amaterasu when she's being a bad sport, which in tern leads to his breaking her loom, killing one of her handmaidens and being banished from heaven for his terrifying her into a cave from which she would not emerge. Scarring the sun so badly that she decides to hide in a cave for the next 100 years or so is generally an offense that will get you punished. Likewise, Izanagi answered his dead wife's vow to destroy 1000 each day with one to create 1500 lives. The only real example of punishing the undeserving I can think of is the fate of Konohanasakuya, who was set herself on fire because her husband doubted her faithfulness to him before giving birth to three sons. She apparently was unharmed by the flames, but she must have had a delicate heart to do such a thing to prove her virtue!

That still sounds like it could get a little too confusing...

I agree with Gryph on using the Norse pantheon over the others. Aside from being a great deal easier to follow overall, they definitely creep me out less then some others...

>I agree with Gryph on using the Norse pantheon over the others. Aside
>from being a great deal easier to follow overall, they definitely
>creep me out less then some others...

There are some bits that might creep you out, depending one which version of the legends you follow.

“They planned their campaigns just as you might make a splendid piece of harness. It looks very well; and answers very well; until it gets broken; and then you are done for. Now I made my campaigns of ropes. If anything went wrong, I tied a knot; and went on.”
-- Arthur Wellesley, First Duke of Wellington

Hindu, please. Hindi is a language.

>Hindu, please. Hindi is a language.

Or a typographical error, depending.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

This didn't deserve its own topic, but one wonders what that nice Professor Dawkins would do if he was in the UF universe and taken to Asgard.

---
"Together we will build an empire of a million shining suns." -- Dave, Dictator of Utopia.

>This didn't deserve its own topic, but one wonders what that nice
>Professor Dawkins would do if he was in the UF universe and taken to
>Asgard.

"... OK, well, at least the fucking Catholics are wrong."

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Admin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

*collapses into giggles*

Thanks for the image, Gryphon.

---
"Together we will build an empire of a million shining suns." -- Dave, Dictator of Utopia.

Hey, does fighting against religion qualify him for Valhalla?

“They planned their campaigns just as you might make a splendid piece of harness. It looks very well; and answers very well; until it gets broken; and then you are done for. Now I made my campaigns of ropes. If anything went wrong, I tied a knot; and went on.”
-- Arthur Wellesley, First Duke of Wellington

>This didn't deserve its own topic, but one wonders what that nice
>Professor Dawkins would do if he was in the UF universe and taken to
>Asgard.

How he would react to such things is summed up by his Doctor Who cameo. When presented with extraordinary evidence, it's perfectly fine to believe extraordinary things.