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Forum Name: Undocumented Features General
Topic ID: 2190
#0, Cybertron and Norse Myth in UF
Posted by Blackbird on Jun-12-13 at 02:38 PM
Cybertron and its history

Something I've been wondering about for a while now, and I can't seem to find explained anywhere, unless it's buried somewhere in the forum archives. What was Cybertron's involvement with Earth in the twentieth century? Did G1 happen as depicted in the source material, antedating the creation of the WDF and the whole craziness of the early Core material? Or is The Movie (as briefly shown in Cybertron Reloaded) simply adapted to remove previous presence on Earth?

I've not actually read the deprecated Cybertron Dreams, so if this is covered there, my apologies.


Advent of the Norse Pantheon

How did the upper echelons of the WDF come to be involved with the Norse Pantheon in the first place? Did the events of the source material happen, albeit (presumably, I'm not familiar with it, but based on what I've heard...) less bizarrely, at some point? Or is it intended to remain somewhat mysterious?


Thanks in advance.


#1, RE: Cybertron and Norse Myth in UF
Posted by Gryphon on Jun-12-13 at 02:54 PM
In response to message #0
LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-13 AT 03:06 PM (EDT)
 
>What was Cybertron's involvement with Earth in the twentieth
>century? Did G1 happen as depicted in the source material, antedating
>the creation of the WDF and the whole craziness of the early Core
>material?

Yes, although - like the Salusian, Zardon, and Vulcan expeditions to Earth in that same timeframe - the Autobot and Decepticon presences on Earth were for the most part carefully concealed until after Earth's official First Contact in 1999. (Not unlike the way the Transformers' interactions with humanity are depicted in the first season of Transformers Prime, come to think of it.)

>How did the upper echelons of the WDF come to be involved with the
>Norse Pantheon in the first place?

Sometime in the 22nd century, Gryphon took one of his occasional sabbaticals from active duty in the WDF and spent a year or two teaching mechanical engineering at the Nekomi Institute of Technology on Tomodachi (then a bustling young colony just entering its second century). While he was there, something more or less akin to the original Oh My Goddess OVA series happened, and he found himself peripherally involved owing to his weirdness-magnet dharma and the fact that he was the Motor Club's faculty advisor that year. That's how he met the Norns. I'm too lazy to check, but I think that's touched on briefly as narrative exposition in the early stages of Twilight (which goes on to be, among other things, Corwin's "origin story").

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#2, RE: Cybertron and Norse Myth in UF
Posted by Blackbird on Jun-12-13 at 03:02 PM
In response to message #1
I see. I do remember something along those lines somewhere in Twilight, but I was wondering if I had missed anything significant.

As to the Cybertronian end of things, I surmised that that was pretty much the case.

Thank you, again.


#3, RE: Cybertron and Norse Myth in UF
Posted by Mercutio on Jun-12-13 at 07:44 PM
In response to message #0

>I've not actually read the deprecated Cybertron Dreams, so if this is
>covered there, my apologies.

Rather than the deprecated Cybertron Dreams, you probably want to check out the equally deprecated "More Than Meets The Eye: A Complete History of Cybertron." It has a complete accounting as to what the Cybertronians were doing, and is an effort to square Transformers continuity with UF continuity.

I remain unsure as to WHY it was deprecated, as I don't THINK anything in it has been expressly contradicted by later work, but nonetheless it is. Pity; there's some excellent stuff in there. The Blitzwing sidebar in particular has stuck with me for awhile.

-Merc
Keep Rat


#4, RE: Cybertron and Norse Myth in UF
Posted by Mephron on Jun-12-13 at 08:37 PM
In response to message #3
It was deprecated because part of the end of it has a dependency on Cybertron Dreams, which is being replaced. That's pretty much the whole reason. We may correct it when we finish the other story, but we gotta get there first.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"


#5, RE: Cybertron and Norse Myth in UF
Posted by Blackbird on Jun-12-13 at 08:59 PM
In response to message #3
LAST EDITED ON Jun-12-13 AT 10:12 PM (EDT)
 
This looks positively illuminating. Thank you. I had not seen this.

Edit: Well, -that- answers all of -those- questions.


#6, Forgot to ask
Posted by Blackbird on Jun-12-13 at 09:13 PM
In response to message #0
A Skuld Question

Since Skuld was described in Scrapheap City Shuffle as in her mid-teens, and aged to adulthood by Twilight, how is it that she appears in the Eddas, or did she simply have a thousand-year childhood?


#7, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by Gryphon on Jun-12-13 at 09:26 PM
In response to message #6
>Since Skuld was described in Scrapheap City Shuffle as in her
>mid-teens, and aged to adulthood by Twilight, how is it that
>she appears in the Eddas, or did she simply have a thousand-year
>childhood?

The gods' ages are at least partially a matter of preference - in Twilight we see Odin younger at the end than he was at the beginning, and giving a rather vague and evasive answer when questioned about it. It's entirely possible that she was, in fact, a preadolescent child for many centuries before deciding to grow up a bit. (She appears in the Eddas as a young woman, but the Vikings only got closer than everyone else, they weren't exactly right about everything. Corwin's favorite example of this is that they describe Urd as a withered old crone. :)

Anyway, we know Skuld was - just barely - old enough to assume her duties as Valkyrie leader in the 1940s (I would guess she was motivated to take that step by the appalling technologically-driven slaughters of the first two World Wars), and she was still around that same age (effectively 12ish) when Gryphon first met her in the mid-2100s. When next they met, in the late 2200s, she'd advanced to mid-adolescence, and IIRC her dialogue implies that she'd done so relatively recently - perhaps because, being attuned to the future, she knew she'd been meeting him again soon.

Urd's theory is that she grows up as Earth's human race does - so she spent the entirety of the pre-spaceflight era as a child; passed through a very turbulent adolescence in the centuries when humanity was spreading boldly, but with many false starts and hilarious screw-ups, across the known galaxy; and reached vigorous young adulthood just at the point when we really started getting our shit together as one of the galactic scene's main players. Dawn of the 25th century as the beginning of Mankind's Fourth Age and all that.

In fairness, most people think Urd's a bit daft. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#8, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by twipper on Jun-12-13 at 09:39 PM
In response to message #7

>In fairness, most people think Urd's a bit daft. :)

And dumb ones say so in front of her. Once.

Brian


#9, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by Mercutio on Jun-12-13 at 10:09 PM
In response to message #7

>Urd's theory is that she grows up as Earth's human race does - so she
>spent the entirety of the pre-spaceflight era as a child; passed
>through a very turbulent adolescence in the centuries when humanity
>was spreading boldly, but with many false starts and hilarious
>screw-ups, across the known galaxy; and reached vigorous young
>adulthood just at the point when we really started getting our shit
>together as one of the galactic scene's main players. Dawn of the
>25th century as the beginning of Mankind's Fourth Age and all that.

Bit geocentric, isn't it?

I mean, Skuld isn't just a human god, she's responsible for all fate everywhere, right?

Although I do seem to recall it was written down somewhere that, while Odin All-Father is the current Creator divinity, he wasn't always, which implies that Asgard maybe hasn't existed since the beginning of time and might come to an end before the universe itself does.

-Merc
Keep Rat


#10, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by Gryphon on Jun-12-13 at 10:22 PM
In response to message #9
>Bit geocentric, isn't it?

Yes. The UF universe is like that. Are you just noticing now?

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#11, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by The Traitor on Jun-12-13 at 10:30 PM
In response to message #10
Sometimes it's easy to forget that, according to the Core fics, the entire frickin' universe was created by a sleep-deprived undergraduate trying to code his girlfriend back to life. Of course it's geocentric.

---
"Yeah, I'm definitely going to hell/But I'll have all the best stories to tell" -- Frank Turner, The Ballad of Me and My Friends


#16, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by BeardedFerret on Jun-13-13 at 02:42 AM
In response to message #11
>Sometimes it's easy to forget that, according to the Core fics, the
>entire frickin' universe was created by a sleep-deprived undergraduate
>trying to code his girlfriend back to life. Of course it's
>geocentric.

It's always good to bear this in mind, though it does beg the question of why the universe Gryphon created has since thanked him by putting him on the run for a century, booting him out of it entirely and then having his wife kidnapped.


#17, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by Gryphon on Jun-13-13 at 02:49 AM
In response to message #16
LAST EDITED ON Jun-13-13 AT 02:51 AM (EDT)
 
>>Sometimes it's easy to forget that, according to the Core fics, the
>>entire frickin' universe was created by a sleep-deprived undergraduate
>>trying to code his girlfriend back to life. Of course it's
>>geocentric.
>
>It's always good to bear this in mind, though it does beg the question
>of why the universe Gryphon created has since thanked him by putting
>him on the run for a century, booting him out of it entirely and then
>having his wife kidnapped.

Somewhere in the galaxy there is a planet - reputed to be the oldest planet in the universe - upon which there is a vast cliff face of pure diamond. Upon this cliff face, in letters a hundred feet high, is engraved in an ancient long-dead language a message reputed to be a final message from the Creator of All to the peoples of His universe. For millennia, no one knew what it said; until Professor Rose Tyler parked the Phoenix at its base, stepped outside, and let the old TARDIS's translation matrix go to work.

She discovered that what it says is,

SHIT HAPPENS.
SORRY.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#19, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by BeardedFerret on Jun-13-13 at 03:53 AM
In response to message #17
Haha, nice.

#21, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by Offsides on Jun-13-13 at 10:02 AM
In response to message #17
>She discovered that what it says is,
>
>
SHIT HAPPENS.
>SORRY.

>

Douglas Adams is probably laughing himself into another dimension right now. That's brilliant.

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


#22, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by Peter Eng on Jun-13-13 at 04:03 PM
In response to message #16
>>Sometimes it's easy to forget that, according to the Core fics, the
>>entire frickin' universe was created by a sleep-deprived undergraduate
>>trying to code his girlfriend back to life. Of course it's
>>geocentric.
>
>It's always good to bear this in mind, though it does beg the question
>of why the universe Gryphon created has since thanked him by putting
>him on the run for a century, booting him out of it entirely and then
>having his wife kidnapped.

Well, as I understand Core 4, Gryphon (UF) didn't create the entire Undocumented Features universe; it's the creation of the Gryphon who ended up in Hopelessly Lost. So the universe beating up on him isn't UF-Gryphon's problem.

And as far as shit happening goes, I'm reminded of a story of a farmer who found a horse. Everybody congratulated him on his good fortune, and he responded, "Are you sure this is good fortune?"

Then, while his son was using the horse to plow a field, the horse broke loose, and broke his son's leg. Everybody expressed sympathy for his bad fortune, and he responded, "Are you sure this is bad fortune?"

Then the local lord's men came through, impressing all able-bodied young men into the army. The farmer's son was left out, because of his broken leg.

"Things that appear good today," the farmer noted, "may be bad tomorrow, and today's misfortune may be tomorrow's opportunity. Who am I to judge these things?"

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


#12, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by Mercutio on Jun-12-13 at 10:44 PM
In response to message #10
>Yes. The UF universe is like that. Are you just noticing now?

Well, no. I've noticed for awhile. I would submit that it might, narratively, have been a bad idea to create gods with universal portfolios who don't seem to take them seriously; it makes said gods look irresponsible, and it says uncharitable things about the interior nature of the universe itself. It might have been better if the various Aes were "the Norse Gods of (X)", with all the limitations that that implies, rather than "the Gods of (X), all (X), everywhere."

I'd note that Surtur, at least, seems much less shy about operating on a universalized scale:

Surtur's very existence in the Universe encouraged the growth
of evil, without any action on his own; but here and there, where he
had acted, he had cultivated whole races, whole galaxies, of mortals
willing to serve his ends unknowing. A flaming finger touched a large
piece on the edge of the board, a cloudlike galaxy dominated by
creatures in angular exoskeletons, slavemasters over slavemasters. He
nudged them closer to the center.

Surtur plays for keeps; sure, one corner of one galaxy has angered him suchly that he's probably going to devote the next couple thousand years (a pittance given his lifespan) to grinding it into nothing, but he doesn't appear to just care about that one slice of Midgard; he plays using the entire game board:

In the end, nothing less than the full weight of all the forces of
destruction would be leveled against this tiny fraction of a tiny
fraction of a galaxy, this one-third of one spiral arm that called
itself - laughably - Known Space.

It would probably be a good idea for the Gods to ALSO play using the entire board. Not doing so seems dumb (and they're not dumb) and also like a great way for their mortal friends and family to end up seeing everything they care about burned to ash.

(I am aware that at the meta level, Known Space has you and Phil and Geoff and various alumni and such looking out for it, and as such nothing truly bad can happen to it long-term. But most of the people actually living there probably don't know that.)

-Merc
Keep Rat


#13, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by Gryphon on Jun-12-13 at 10:54 PM
In response to message #12
>>Yes. The UF universe is like that. Are you just noticing now?
>
>Well, no. I've noticed for awhile. I would submit that it might,
>narratively, have been a bad idea to create gods with universal
>portfolios who don't seem to take them seriously

Dude, I thought you were going to be less about breaking my balls this time. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#14, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by Mercutio on Jun-12-13 at 11:13 PM
In response to message #13
>Dude, I thought you were going to be less about breaking my
>balls this time. :)

Well, I figure, it's either this, or constant questions-slash-manifestos asking when Friendship is Magic is going to be incorporated into UF. :)

-Merc
Keep Rat


#15, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by Lime2K on Jun-13-13 at 02:22 AM
In response to message #14
>Well, I figure, it's either this, or constant
>questions-slash-manifestos asking when Friendship is Magic is going to
>be incorporated into UF. :)
>
We have that -- My Little Destroid: Friendship is Tactical!

(search for it on the forums, I'm in Lazy Bastard Mode tonight and can't be arsed to find the reference) :)

Lime2K


#18, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by Mercutio on Jun-13-13 at 03:28 AM
In response to message #15

>We have that -- My Little Destroid: Friendship is Tactical!

Somehow, it's just not the same without neurotic grad student magic princess ponies in it. :(

(I would still watch the HELL out of My Little Destroid, though.)

-Merc
Keep Rat


#20, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by jhosmer1 on Jun-13-13 at 08:09 AM
In response to message #13
LAST EDITED ON Jun-17-13 AT 09:36 AM (EDT)
 
If you're wondering how he eats and breathes
and other science facts (lalala)
Repeat to yourself "It's just a show
I really should relax."

:)


#23, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by Peter Eng on Jun-14-13 at 04:01 AM
In response to message #12
>
>I'd note that Surtur, at least, seems much less shy about operating on
>a universalized scale:
>

Since we haven't seen whatever system it is that Odin uses to track these things, there's no guarantee that he isn't using the whole board as well. If he isn't, it's possible that he's simply trusting in his higher-quality forces; eight pawns is no match for a queen and a rook, after all.

On the other hand, if he is using the whole board, it suggests some interesting strategies.

Peter Eng
--
I did not require my other forces to defeat this attack; therefore, I left them hidden.


#24, RE: Forgot to ask
Posted by Terminus Est on Jun-17-13 at 10:15 PM
In response to message #23
LAST EDITED ON Jun-17-13 AT 10:16 PM (EDT)
 
I seem to remember mentions of a holotank (which Corwin took apart during his younger years) in the briefing room of the gods. Could very well be that Odin uses -that- to keep track of things in three dimensions, as it were. (Granted it probably has a great deal more than three dimensions available for display options, but three just sounds better.)

Course it's also possible that the entire chessboard thing is just a metaphor and we're vastly overanalyzing it. Occam and his ol' shiv would probably agree with the latter theory.