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Forum URL: http://www.eyrie-productions.com/Forum/dcboard.cgi
Forum Name: Our Witches at War
Topic ID: 24
#0, OWaW 5
Posted by Nova Floresca on Feb-13-15 at 04:21 AM
"Operation Grass-Snake" certainly is fitting, considering the man behind it is a verifiable snake-in-the-grass (among other choice euphemisms).

Which brings to mind a couple of questions, namely:
1) what was General von Ridiculous going to do when his candy-coated zeppelin drew more attention than the actual rocket-pack guys, leading to either a search for Neuroi collaborators or a desire to build one to see if it could be used to sneak up on the Neuroi?
2) was the actual Neuroi there to pop the Kaiser as well, or was it just chasing down the Knickebein beam to see what that did? Or was it there because of the imposter? (I don't remember if the Neuroi are shown to have complex enough emotions to lodge a protest over being so poorly represented, or the like).

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."


#1, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Matrix Dragon on Feb-13-15 at 05:09 AM
In response to message #0
I don't care if it was even a first stage attempt to show that their rocketmen might actually work, that's an impressive combination of utter stupidity and lacking in the slightest damn about his men.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


#3, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Tabasco on Feb-13-15 at 11:46 AM
In response to message #1
LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-15 AT 11:52 AM (EST)
 
Yeah, at least the late war Nazis and Japanese had the excuse they were desperate. This is just crazy, and not the fun or awesome kind.

Imagine for a minute if it had worked out exactly as planned. Unless they somehow manage to break off instantly and get clear, the Kaiser gets to see a squad of brave men salvo their rockets point blank into the thing and then promptly be incinerated.


#2, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by TsukaiStarburst on Feb-13-15 at 08:10 AM
In response to message #0
Ugh, amazing. I don't want this fic to end, ever. Fortunately it seems as if we've got an unexplained plot thread left- and lots more potential plot ground left to cover (I wondered for just a moment while I was reading if that was going to be a group of Neuroi Witches, and I was like 'yessss maybe' but then I was all like 'aw, but this is ok too'.

Still wondering if they'll show up for that potential... but that's probably another story in itself...

Aaaah, keep going, Gryph. I love this world. I can't wait to see where things go next in it.


#4, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-13-15 at 02:36 PM
In response to message #2
>I wondered for just a moment
>while I was reading if that was going to be a group of Neuroi Witches

Heh heh, oh man. Surely one Neuroi-san would be enough. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#5, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Sofaspud on Feb-13-15 at 06:22 PM
In response to message #0
I'm gonna admit my stupidity here and point out that it wasn't until the third re-reading AND a visit to the annotations thread that I *think* I finally figured out what was going on in this episode.

The Neuroi that the rocketmen were 'attacking' wasn't a Neuroi at all, was it.

When Gryphon and his incredibly flexible flight partner burst through it, I was baffled. What's this? What the hell? Etc. And that's probably exactly what they were thinking, so, points for ... immersion?

But then they just move on with things like it's perfectly clear to everyone what's going on and that's also legit, they didn't have time to stand (fly?) around explaining to the dumb audience what had just happened, there was a REAL Neuroi bearing down on prince fuckwit, I get it...

... but then the episode ended and I guess I got my wish, it wasn't a cliffhanger this time, but it just didn't feel like the natural end of the ride to me. All of OWaW has so far (my kvetching about the cliffhangers notwithstanding :D ), but this one didn't.

Given that I haven't had this problem with other installments (I think...), I'm leaning towards it not being as clearly written this time around. Not bad, still highly entertaining, would (did) read again, 9/10, the box did not contain a live bobcat, etc. But Eyrie works don't usually make me feel like an idjut, and this one did.

Maybe I'm just having an off day, I dunno.

--sofaspud
--


#6, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-13-15 at 07:08 PM
In response to message #5
>When Gryphon and his incredibly flexible flight partner burst through
>it, I was baffled. What's this? What the hell? Etc. And that's
>probably exactly what they were thinking

Thinking, heck, it's what Gryphon said. :)

>... but then the episode ended and I guess I got my wish, it wasn't a
>cliffhanger this time, but it just didn't feel like the natural end of
>the ride to me.

Well... you're not wrong, it really isn't. There is obviously quite a bit going on in this episode that isn't sorted out at the end. It's not clear to the reader or most of the characters what the heck was going on there. That's not intended to make them or you seem or feel stupid, though. It's just an indication that they're caught up in complicated events that they haven't fully unraveled yet.

This stems from several different factors, a couple of which are not necessarily narrative devices so much as artifacts of the process. One is that frontloading the mysterious action and then explaining everything in the back half of the same episode seems a bit... I don't know, weak? And the other is simply based in one of the limitations of the format. The "serial experiment" idea is to drop an episode on Friday, come what may. That's actually why last week's had a cliffhanger - otherwise, it would probably have run through, well, about where this week's ended.

Beyond that, though, where this week's ep ends is a fairly organic place to stop if the next episode follows through. It's a quiet moment with the immediate source of tension resolved, time for the characters to step back, breathe, and regroup - after which they can get on with figuring out what the heck was going on. And to be fair, at that particular moment, many of them have things to worry about that are higher on their personal priority lists - such as whether their commanding officer, their friend, and/or in one or more certain particular case(s) the imperfectly-acknowledged love of their life is going to make it. If it helps, think of it as a different form of cliffhanger.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#7, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by drakensis on Feb-15-15 at 03:15 AM
In response to message #6
>Beyond that, though, where this week's ep ends is a fairly
>organic place to stop if the next episode follows through.

Plus Shizuka's now been initiated into the 'sleeping next to Gryphon' club. That's a solid step forward in her story.


#8, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Star Ranger4 on Feb-19-15 at 04:34 PM
In response to message #6
>Beyond that, though, where this week's ep ends is a fairly
>organic place to stop if the next episode follows through.
>It's a quiet moment with the immediate source of tension resolved,
>time for the characters to step back, breathe, and regroup - after
>which they can get on with figuring out what the heck was going on.
>And to be fair, at that particular moment, many of them have things to
>worry about that are higher on their personal priority lists - such as
>whether their commanding officer, their friend, and/or in one or more
>certain particular case(s) the imperfectly-acknowledged love of their
>life is going to make it. If it helps, think of it as a different
>form of cliffhanger.
>
At the risk of sounding like a suckup, I agree more with you than Da Spudster. Sure there are still threads in the air, but with G and da witches having plotz till dey droptz, it seems like the natural spot for the inevitable To be continued card.

to be honest, I personally had a lot more trouble with the beamriding part of it, as my brain seems to keep insisting that the beam was actually providing more steering than just "hold the signal at bearing x azimuth y". Most likely assuming facts not actually in evidence there.

However on to the one point no one has discussed...
VonHammer. From her appearance last week, and on to now. I have to wonder if shes a DC of one (or more) of Martin "PC Hammmer" Rose's ancestors. Or maybe of Eiko's after having seen her in action. Or maybe even some sort of blend of both? Maybe its just seeing her backup weapon, but suddenly I really have this image of a young looking, but clearly mature Eiko, with her hammer's 'flame trail' matching her hair...


#9, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-19-15 at 04:56 PM
In response to message #8
>to be honest, I personally had a lot more trouble with the beamriding
>part of it, as my brain seems to keep insisting that the beam was
>actually providing more steering than just "hold the signal at bearing
>x azimuth y". Most likely assuming facts not actually in evidence
>there.

Well, no, it seems like your brain was probably right. The real Knickebein was just a navigational aid, providing information that the aircraft's pilot would then act upon, but in this implementation it's doing rather more. There will be a much more detailed analysis of how Operation Grass-Snake worked (and what it was meant to accomplish) in episode 07, next week.

>From her appearance last week, and on to now. I have to
>wonder if shes a DC of one (or more) of Martin "PC Hammmer" Rose's
>ancestors.

You do realize his name isn't actually Hammer, right? :)

Anyway, no, she's not (as far as one knows) related to either of them; she's the local equivalent of Hans von Hammer from the old Enemy Ace feature in DC's Our Army at War comics, and she looks like Me 109 from Fly Girls because the animators were having a little joke. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#10, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Star Ranger4 on Feb-19-15 at 07:05 PM
In response to message #9
>>to be honest, I personally had a lot more trouble with the beamriding
>>part of it, as my brain seems to keep insisting that the beam was
>>actually providing more steering than just "hold the signal at bearing
>>x azimuth y". Most likely assuming facts not actually in evidence
>>there.
>
>Well, no, it seems like your brain was probably right. The real
>Knickebein was just a navigational aid, providing information
>that the aircraft's pilot would then act upon, but in this
>implementation it's doing rather more. There will be a much more
>detailed analysis of how Operation Grass-Snake worked (and what it was
>meant to accomplish) in episode 07, next week.
>
eh... problem there has my subconcous screaming "they didnt have the computing power back then to pull something like that off".

>>From her appearance last week, and on to now. I have to
>>wonder if shes a DC of one (or more) of Martin "PC Hammmer" Rose's
>>ancestors.
>
>You do realize his name isn't actually Hammer, right? :)

*points at line G quoted* :p ;D

>
>Anyway, no, she's not (as far as one knows) related to either of them;
>she's the local equivalent of Hans von Hammer from the old Enemy
>Ace
feature in DC's Our Army at War comics, and she looks
>like Me 109 from Fly Girls because the animators were having a
>little joke. :)
>
hmm. Yes, I think I saw something to that effect somewhere. :p guess its just the way you write her, especially here, really channels the way Marty wrote Eiko back when he was an active memeber of the collective. Could also be that I must semi shamefully admit that Marty's stories and appearances were the ones I liked best, especially the handfull of Thunderforce stories; and that fact is skewing my perceptions.


#11, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-19-15 at 07:41 PM
In response to message #10
>eh... problem there has my subconcous screaming "they didnt have the
>computing power back then to pull something like that off".

Who needs computers? They didn't need computers to make Fritz X work...

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#14, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Star Ranger4 on Feb-22-15 at 07:05 PM
In response to message #11
LAST EDITED ON Feb-22-15 AT 07:44 PM (EST)
 
>>eh... problem there has my subconcous screaming "they didnt have the
>>computing power back then to pull something like that off".
>
>Who needs computers? They didn't need computers to make
>Fritz X work...
>

No electronic computer... just the organic one between the operator's ears.

Edit to add:
and apparently that is what they did here. Looking at it I think I can tie down my initial problem with it: that there were 10 units involved that had to be directed; and for some reason I was thinking that each of the packs each of those poor suckers was strapped to were receiving individual steers and control inputs to keep them in formation. Certainly after having read the events of 6, plus our discussions here, have me saying "Dude, its cool, just believe the author has a good grasp on HIS DAMN STORY and let him tell it his way. You know this dude, trust him already"

*insert gallic shrug here*


#15, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-22-15 at 07:54 PM
In response to message #14
>No electronic computer... just the organic one between the operator's
>ears.
>
>Edit to add:
>and apparently that is what they did here.

It is, perhaps, worth keeping in mind that Operation Grass-Snake was not, technically speaking, a good plan. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#16, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Star Ranger4 on Mar-01-15 at 05:50 PM
In response to message #15
>It is, perhaps, worth keeping in mind that Operation Grass-Snake was
>not, technically speaking, a good plan. :)
>

*SNERK*

Totally.


#17, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Wiregeek on Mar-01-15 at 07:59 PM
In response to message #5

>Maybe I'm just having an off day, I dunno.


I think you're just having an off day - I parsed it immediately, and I have zero familiarity with Strike Witches going into it.


#12, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Willard on Feb-21-15 at 04:51 PM
In response to message #0
Except for one thing, I could buy the excuse that this was just a live-fire rigged demo.

Except for the Scott Bernard Fliegerhammer. Karlslanders are a methodical bunch. Someone would have tested that and noted that the missiles interfere with each other and go all wild.

No, this was an assassination attempt, pure and simple.

(A bit late, but I had to say it.)


#13, RE: OWaW 5
Posted by Gryphon on Feb-21-15 at 05:11 PM
In response to message #12
>Except for the Scott Bernard Fliegerhammer. Karlslanders are a
>methodical bunch. Someone would have tested that and noted that the
>missiles interfere with each other and go all wild.
>
>No, this was an assassination attempt, pure and simple.

Given the size of the target and the fact that Gryphon tried shooting at it from what would have been reasonably long range for a normal Fliegerhammer, I'm... not sure your conclusion inevitably follows.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.