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Forum Name: Symphony of the Sword/The Order of the Rose
Topic ID: 433
#0, A few mecha related observations
Posted by GethN7 on May-24-14 at 01:26 AM
Just got finished reading Symphony 4, Part 2, and I noticed a few mecha related things I wanted to comment on:

1. I applaud the amount of homework that went into the Heterodyne knockoffs made by Big Fire. Having seen Dai-Guard, that was pretty cool.

2. Took me a little bit to realize that Kozue was piloting the Getter Robo G, and that was because the name of the second unit is wrong. It's "Getter Liger", not "Getter Ryger".

3. Being someone who was at best tolerant of Robotech and prefers Macross (though some of the names from Robotech are much better and a lot easier to pronounce, especially for the Zentradi), I found it a bit hard to follow the Macross/Robotech stuff since terms from both are thrown around so much.

Overall though, as a robot show fan, that was a nice mecha story.

P.S. - on a non robot related note, the Powerpuff Girls stuff felt mostly In Name Only up until Mojo Jojo debuted, then not only was he portrayed perfectly (and very hilariously), the rest of the Powerpuff Girl cast actually felt more like canon and less like cardboard cutouts with superficial elements of the original canon attached.


#1, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by Gryphon on May-24-14 at 01:30 AM
In response to message #0
>2. Took me a little bit to realize that Kozue was piloting the Getter
>Robo G, and that was because the name of the second unit is wrong.
>It's "Getter Liger", not "Getter Ryger".

That depends entirely on the translation you're working with.

>P.S. - on a non robot related note, the Powerpuff Girls stuff felt
>mostly In Name Only up until Mojo Jojo debuted, then not only was he
>portrayed perfectly (and very hilariously), the rest of the Powerpuff
>Girl cast actually felt more like canon and less like cardboard
>cutouts with superficial elements of the original canon attached.

I'm... just going to leave that there, I think. It's got that yeah-but-no-but-yeah-but thing going on again and I just can't get inside that tonight. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#2, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by GethN7 on May-24-14 at 06:56 PM
In response to message #1
LAST EDITED ON May-24-14 AT 07:12 PM (EDT)
 
>>2. Took me a little bit to realize that Kozue was piloting the Getter
>>Robo G, and that was because the name of the second unit is wrong.
>>It's "Getter Liger", not "Getter Ryger".
>
>That depends entirely on the translation you're working with.
>
>>P.S. - on a non robot related note, the Powerpuff Girls stuff felt
>>mostly In Name Only up until Mojo Jojo debuted, then not only was he
>>portrayed perfectly (and very hilariously), the rest of the Powerpuff
>>Girl cast actually felt more like canon and less like cardboard
>>cutouts with superficial elements of the original canon attached.
>
>I'm... just going to leave that there, I think. It's got that
>yeah-but-no-but-yeah-but thing going on again and I just can't get
>inside that tonight. :)
>
>--G.
>-><-
>Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
>Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
>zgryphon at that email service Google has
>Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


As for the name "Getter Ryger", I must respectfully disagree. The original Getter-2 core machine is called the Getter Jaguar, and the Getter Robo G version is called the Getter Liger (Lion+Tiger), so the name 'Getter Liger" is merely continuing the series theme.

I understand you may prefer the mistranslation for your own reasons, but it's still a mistranslation since it breaks the obvious theme naming used in the series.

Also, as for my yes/no/yes response (as you put it), I come from the school of thought regarding crossovers that unless the original canon was so horrible doing completely new things with it is preferred (I watched Gundam SEED Destiny, and it was so bad anything else would be preferable), I usually tend to prefer crossovers that try to blend the various series they borrow from together and tie it all together with some original storywork to fill in the blanks.

UF seems to take parts of some series and then spins the rest out of whole cloth, which is admittedly not my thing most of the time, but that doesn't mean I think what I've read so far is bad. If anything, being the cynic I am, it was far better than I expected.

If anything, I thought how the Ah My Goddess/Magic Knights Rayearth/Revolutionary Girl Utena series were linked together was pretty ingenious, and almost all the mecha/sci-fi stuff I like. As for the Powerpuff Girls part of things, that show wasn't exactly the deepest well of canon to draw from, but I found following those parts you included difficult to appreciate because most of it did seem to be completely original material, at least until Mojo Jojo showed up, then the Powerpuff Girls stuff seemed to gel into the plot a little better.


#3, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by Terminus Est on May-24-14 at 11:57 PM
In response to message #2
I was going to go on a whole long-winded rant about differences of opinion, the fact that UF has been around since before some of its component bits were created (or since those components' creators were even born in some instances), and kindly suggest that you sit back and enjoy the ride...

...but then I realized that 1: that would be pretty damn presumptuous of me, 2: everyone IS in fact entitled to their own opinion, and 3: G and company can do that far more effectively than I can in any case.

So I won't do that.

Instead I'll address one point that kind of bugs me, that being the PPG stuff. It should be noted, I think, that in the grand scheme of things? That is an exceedingly minor part of the overall universe. I am afraid that you, sir, are picking nits, and since they're out of season, I must kindly ask that you return them to the wild.


#5, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by GethN7 on May-25-14 at 01:14 AM
In response to message #3
>Instead I'll address one point that kind of bugs me, that being the
>PPG stuff. It should be noted, I think, that in the grand scheme of
>things? That is an exceedingly minor part of the overall
>universe. I am afraid that you, sir, are picking nits, and since
>they're out of season, I must kindly ask that you return them to the
>wild.

Fair enough. As I admitted, this type of crossover story is not my usual cup of tea, but overall, I'm generally enjoying it, and now that I got my nits picked, I plan to sit down, shut up, and enjoy the rest of the ride.

>>As for the name "Getter Ryger", I must respectfully disagree. The
>>original Getter-2 core machine is called the Getter Jaguar, and the
>>Getter Robo G version is called the Getter Liger (Lion+Tiger), so the
>>name 'Getter Liger" is merely continuing the series theme.
>
>Ah, well, you see, I didn't know that; and I have to admit it doesn't
>really change my opinion on the matter, since "liger" is not a real
>word
in my book, any more than (for instance) "cockerpoo",
>"puggle", or "zorse". Unaware that it was in fact a cutesy label for
>a hybrid animal, I gave it equal romanization weight with "Ryger"
>(which is how it's rendered in at least one official translation I've
>seen, albeit one in Italian) and decided I liked the latter's ring
>better.

Well, I'll admit "Ryger" does roll off the tongue slightly easier, so mea culpa. I guess my inner Getter fanboy had a vein pop on his forehead and just had 2 get that out of his head.

However, I'm afraid Ligers are quite real:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liger

>
>I must say, it's a reasonably refreshing change of pace to get gigged
>for being too original. :)
>

Well, I wasn't so much complaining as I wasn't sure how they fit into UF at first since my introduction to them had so little familiarity with the source work, but now I do. Also, I hope I get to see more scenes with Mojo Jojo, he's unbelievably hilarious.


#6, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by Gryphon on May-25-14 at 01:24 AM
In response to message #5
>However, I'm afraid Ligers are quite real:

I didn't dispute that. (So, for that matter, are cockerpoos, puggles, and zorses.) I'm merely noting that I wasn't aware it was a label for a real thing at the time I was considering which romanization to go with. And that, since it's a silly made-up term that's a little too precious (like many such words; see previous examples), knowing that now doesn't particularly make me want to change my mind. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#7, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by rwpikul on May-26-14 at 03:40 AM
In response to message #6
>>However, I'm afraid Ligers are quite real:
>
>I didn't dispute that. (So, for that matter, are cockerpoos, puggles,
>and zorses.) I'm merely noting that I wasn't aware it was a label for
>a real thing at the time I was considering which romanization to go
>with. And that, since it's a silly made-up term that's a little too
>precious (like many such words; see previous examples), knowing that
>now doesn't particularly make me want to change my mind. :)

Well, it's a 'silly made-up term' with enough usage over a long enough period, (it dates from at least the 1920s), that you can expect to find it in most decent English dictionaries. I also can't really think of a better term for that particular hybrid, given the constraint that it needs to be distinguished from tigon, (that's when the tiger is the father, they are much smaller than ligers).

The others don't have quite the pedigree, (zorse is about as old, but is much less common due to the rarity of zebroids in general and their lack of the "WOW! that's a big cat!" factor).


#8, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by Senji on May-26-14 at 10:35 AM
In response to message #7
>The others don't have quite the pedigree, (zorse is about as old, but
>is much less common due to the rarity of zebroids in general and their
>lack of the "WOW! that's a big cat!" factor).

Why not make a proper new word. Where would we be if we went around talking about dorses rather than mules?

S.


#9, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by rwpikul on May-27-14 at 01:32 AM
In response to message #8
> Why not make a proper new word. Where would we be if we went around
>talking about dorses rather than mules?

Well, leaving aside that a 'dorse' would probably be a hinny rather than a mule....

Creating a portmanteau is a longstanding way of making a proper new word. You probably even use them all the time.

You've probably watched more than a few newscasts, perhaps even one that had a story about a soundscape, (if you did it on your phone, you might have even been riding an escalator at the time). More than a few times, the stories would have likely mentioned smog, motorcades, napalm or paratroopers.

UF has included arcologies and all sorts of things with avionics, not to mention all kinds of brainiacs.

Reading the right kind of stuff can easily result in the release of endorphins<1>, which might be nice if you have just been reading up on how your party lost the election because of gerrymandering.

I'm sorry if this comes across as a bit snarky, but you can at least know that I'm seeing a lot of words with squiggles under them.

(Including the footnote: That's what, 15 of them? Oh, wait: 16)


<1> Or you could get it through some possibly illegal activities in a motel.


#10, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by Gryphon on May-27-14 at 01:40 AM
In response to message #9
And there's a foul on the play: A lot of your sarcastic examples were compound words, not portmanteaux.

Also, you came across as a bit of a douchebag. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#12, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by rwpikul on May-27-14 at 03:13 PM
In response to message #10
>And there's a foul on the play: A lot of your sarcastic examples were
>compound words, not portmanteaux.

Point of order: A compound retains the root words intact, all of those truncate at least one of the roots.


#13, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by Gryphon on May-27-14 at 03:31 PM
In response to message #12
>>And there's a foul on the play: A lot of your sarcastic examples were
>>compound words, not portmanteaux.
>
>Point of order: A compound retains the root words intact, all of
>those truncate at least one of the roots.

You know, I hate to call a halt on any discussion that happens on these boards lately, we're so light on traffic, but there comes a point where I have to stop and ask myself: What the hell has any of this got to do with anything? There's off-topic, and then there's arguing about whether "liger" is a stupid word*, and then there's whatever the f--- we are talking about now. :)

--G.
* It is.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#11, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by laudre on May-27-14 at 10:02 AM
In response to message #9
>> Why not make a proper new word. Where would we be if we went around
>>talking about dorses rather than mules?
>
>Well, leaving aside that a 'dorse' would probably be a hinny rather
>than a mule....
>
>Creating a portmanteau is a longstanding way of making a proper new
>word. You probably even use them all the time.

<snip>

*golf clap*

Wow, that's a bit of pedantry that even I would have to be having a really bad day to engage in. Particularly given that only some of those are portmanteaus; they are, however, examples of what were, at one time, neologisms, although many of those are such no longer.

In any event, liger and tigon are attested going back to the 1930s, at least (and the actual animals -- ligers, in particular -- have been documented back to 1798). Besides, if you want to take a dip in that pool, have a look at Wikipedia's list of Panthera hybrids, which includes liligers, litigons, lileguars, jagopards, and many more. (Kind of mind-blowing how many of these hybrids are fertile, too, for that matter.)


"Mathematics brought rigor to economics. Unfortunately, it also brought mortis."
- Kenneth Boulding


#4, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by Gryphon on May-25-14 at 00:07 AM
In response to message #2
>As for the name "Getter Ryger", I must respectfully disagree. The
>original Getter-2 core machine is called the Getter Jaguar, and the
>Getter Robo G version is called the Getter Liger (Lion+Tiger), so the
>name 'Getter Liger" is merely continuing the series theme.

Ah, well, you see, I didn't know that; and I have to admit it doesn't really change my opinion on the matter, since "liger" is not a real word in my book, any more than (for instance) "cockerpoo", "puggle", or "zorse". Unaware that it was in fact a cutesy label for a hybrid animal, I gave it equal romanization weight with "Ryger" (which is how it's rendered in at least one official translation I've seen, albeit one in Italian) and decided I liked the latter's ring better.

>I found following those parts
>you included difficult to appreciate because most of it did seem to be
>completely original material

I must say, it's a reasonably refreshing change of pace to get gigged for being too original. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#14, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by Croaker on May-29-14 at 03:30 PM
In response to message #4
I'm just going to shrug and be silly and point out that the -real- name is ゲッターライガー.

And while the second half of that term can easily be transliterated as both 'Liger' and 'Ryger' or several other minor variations thereupon, The Author Hath Spoken.

Besides, it's not like it's supposed to actually be the one from the show; if it were then the show's preferred transliteration would be correct. But it's not, this is UF, so Gryph gets to be picky and have his choice of what sounds right when he tells the story.

If anyone has a right to be picky about the name, it's Kozue, and you don't see her complaining, do you?


#15, RE: A few mecha related observations
Posted by Star Ranger4 on Jun-04-14 at 07:59 PM
In response to message #14
>If anyone has a right to be picky about the name, it's Kozue,
>and you don't see her complaining, do you?

nope, just pulling of the damn coolest not recommended ever maneuver... EVER!