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Forum Name: Symphony of the Sword / The Order of the Rose
Topic ID: 502
#0, Cantata, cont'd
Posted by Gryphon on Sep-26-15 at 01:54 PM
>i understand the idea of using the
>character dialogue from the Kancolle game, great timesaver in some
>ways and helps easily establish, for those in the know, who is who and
>what their persona is like however many of the instances are so
>completely out of context if the fusion of Kancolle and Arpeggio is
>leaning more towards the Fog than the Kantai thatm, for me at least, i
>was brought to a complete halt trying to parse why certain dialogue
>would be used in scenes X, Y and Z when at that point human and fog
>are still technically in conflict.

Some specific examples would probably help me address this, but in general, it's worth keeping in mind that the ships of the Midway Fleet are not particularly in conflict with humanity at that point. They don't have any orders, and without orders, until they manifested their Mental Models (which in most cases just happened the first time we meet them), they didn't have any opinions either.

Having just that minute developed the capability to have opinions, and in the absence of orders, they have to figure out where they stand on everything that confronts them for themselves. That's a tall order at the best of times.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#1, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by mouse_rr on Sep-26-15 at 02:15 PM
In response to message #0
>Some specific examples would probably help me address this, but in
>general, it's worth keeping in mind that the ships of the Midway Fleet
>are not particularly in conflict with humanity at that point.
>They don't have any orders, and without orders, until they manifested
>their Mental Models (which in most cases just happened the
>first time we meet them), they didn't have any opinions either.
>
>Having just that minute developed the capability to have
>opinions, and in the absence of orders, they have to figure out where
>they stand on everything that confronts them for themselves. That's a
>tall order at the best of times.
>
>--G.

the first that comes to mind is - "Feel free to rely on us!" Ikazuchi added with a wink. - which is cute and all but fairly out of place in a first meeting with a complete stranger who may/may not be exactly friendly. none of the Fog characters, Iona not withstanding, have any reason to say such things to someone they just met. especially when, prior to the shutdown they were out doing routine 'war related activities' ala Tenryu and the destroyers on patrol out of Rabaul.

another, though at that point less of an issue under the circumstances is Oyodo's "Light cruiser Ōyodo. Please leave the fleet administration and supervision to me."

Tenryu's - "The name's Tenryū," she said; then, with a decorative flourish, she leveled the point of her sword at his throat and asked with a low chuckle, "Ya scared?" - seemed the most Fog-ish response though i cant say anything about her Kancolle persona, having made no appearancein the anime and not having played the game.

in the game context these kinds of statements are expected, the latter example


#2, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by Gryphon on Sep-26-15 at 02:25 PM
In response to message #1
>the first that comes to mind is - "Feel free to rely on us!" Ikazuchi
>added with a wink. - which is cute and all but fairly out of place in
>a first meeting with a complete stranger who may/may not be exactly
>friendly.

Well, that's just Ikazuchi. She's always like that. She just wants to get across the notion that DesDiv 6 is reliable, and doesn't know any more general way of saying it. Anyway, she was the quickest of the four to take a liking to him, for reasons which will be examined in the next line.

>none of the Fog characters, Iona not withstanding, have any
>reason to say such things to someone they just met.

No, but they do have instincts - which, as it happens, they didn't have before, and are still getting used to the concept. That was kind of the idea, anyway.

>another, though at that point less of an issue under the circumstances
>is Oyodo's "Light cruiser Ōyodo. Please leave the fleet
>administration and supervision to me."

It might be out of context; on the other hand, it might equally indicate that Ōyodo has already figured out how the situation is likely to unfold. She's pretty sharp. Battleship-class processor in a light cruiser, y'know. :)

>Tenryu's seemed the most Fog-ish response
>though i cant say anything about her Kancolle persona, having made no
>appearancein the anime and not having played the game.

Strangely, Tenryū's stock self-introduction line makes more sense in Cantata than it does in the game, where she is, in essence, trying to intimidate her newly assigned commanding officer.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#3, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by mouse_rr on Sep-26-15 at 02:45 PM
In response to message #2
>No, but they do have instincts - which, as it happens, they didn't
>have before, and are still getting used to the concept. That was kind
>of the idea, anyway.

hmm not sure i follow how that applies, i can see grudging trust in light of not 1 but 2 Fog ships in his company but it seemed to 'easily accepted' that early in the meeting between fog/human.

>>another, though at that point less of an issue under the circumstances
>>is Oyodo's "Light cruiser Ōyodo. Please leave the fleet
>>administration and supervision to me."
>
>It might be out of context; on the other hand, it might equally
>indicate that Ōyodo has already figured out how the situation is
>likely to unfold. She's pretty sharp. Battleship-class processor in
>a light cruiser, y'know. :)

this particular instance was a bit more understandable in the specific circumstance, Kongo's override brought together the last players and it is made clear shortly after that major discussion had already taken place in regards to him.

>>Tenryu's seemed the most Fog-ish response
>>though i cant say anything about her Kancolle persona, having made no
>>appearancein the anime and not having played the game.
>
>Strangely, Tenryū's stock self-introduction line makes
>more sense in Cantata than it does in the game, where
>she is, in essence, trying to intimidate her newly assigned commanding
>officer.

and this is where having never played the game and only having a passing knowledge of the vast array of characters it has makes it hard to comment on a given persona. i recognized her from artworks and the like but know nothing about her in game. i probably could have gone to the wikia and dug a bit to find out more about her but as it isnt a really big issue in itself i didnt bother.


#4, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by Nova Floresca on Sep-26-15 at 04:27 PM
In response to message #3
>>No, but they do have instincts - which, as it happens, they didn't
>>have before, and are still getting used to the concept. That was kind
>>of the idea, anyway.
>
>hmm not sure i follow how that applies, i can see grudging trust in
>light of not 1 but 2 Fog ships in his company but it seemed to 'easily
>accepted' that early in the meeting between fog/human.

I think the aspect you might be missing is derived from the manga version of Arpeggio, which didn't get explored much in the anime- the Fog are conditioned, designed even, for obedience. They need to fit in to the chain of command somewhere, even if that chain is only one link long, and the need is so powerfully ingrained that they will fall in and follow the first thing that gives them orders (e.g. Kongou working for EarthForce even though she knows they're scum).

Consider that the rest of the Fog ships at Midway just woke up to find they have no orders, triggering that need; they just manifested Mental Models, giving them access to emotions; and then they discover that a professional asshole (and her Psi Corps handler) are coming to give them those orders whether they like it or not, and it's not surprising at this point that they're throwing themselves towards Option B.

>>>Tenryu's seemed the most Fog-ish response
>>>though i cant say anything about her Kancolle persona, having made no
>>>appearancein the anime and not having played the game.
>>
>>Strangely, Tenryū's stock self-introduction line makes
>>more sense in Cantata than it does in the game, where
>>she is, in essence, trying to intimidate her newly assigned commanding
>>officer.
>
>and this is where having never played the game and only having a
>passing knowledge of the vast array of characters it has makes it hard
>to comment on a given persona. i recognized her from artworks and the
>like but know nothing about her in game. i probably could have gone to
>the wikia and dug a bit to find out more about her but as it isnt a
>really big issue in itself i didnt bother.

What makes Tenryuu's attitude even funnier is the fact that she is, in fact, outgunned by the Akatsuki sisters by a fair margin, and by everything else in the dock by a much, much greater margin.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."


#5, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by Gryphon on Sep-26-15 at 04:38 PM
In response to message #4
>What makes Tenryuu's attitude even funnier is the fact that she is, in
>fact, outgunned by the Akatsuki sisters by a fair margin, and by
>everything else in the dock by a much, much greater margin.

Well, except Akashi. But then she's not technically a warship. :)

Anyway, Tenryū's got guts, and as King of Braves Gaogaigar teaches us, that makes up for shortfalls in any other area!

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#9, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by rwpikul on Sep-26-15 at 08:25 PM
In response to message #3
>>No, but they do have instincts - which, as it happens, they didn't
>>have before, and are still getting used to the concept. That was kind
>>of the idea, anyway.
>
>hmm not sure i follow how that applies, i can see grudging trust in
>light of not 1 but 2 Fog ships in his company but it seemed to 'easily
>accepted' that early in the meeting between fog/human.

One thing to remember is that the 'human' in that particular meeting is more than just that. There could be some level of instinctive reaction to the fact that they are, quite literally, meeting face-to-face with their god.

This could mean that they simply know that they can trust him, even if they have no idea why they know that.


#11, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by mouse_rr on Sep-26-15 at 11:32 PM
In response to message #9
>One thing to remember is that the 'human' in that particular meeting
>is more than just that. There could be some level of instinctive
>reaction to the fact that they are, quite literally, meeting
>face-to-face with their god.
>
>This could mean that they simply know that they can trust him, even if
>they have no idea why they know that.

oddly enough that was an angle i had considered and while the i feel the term 'instinct' might be a bit much there is a clear meta connection: they are machines and he is lord of same. i mostly discounted it on the basis that under the seal he is heavily constrained. of course, not knowing the exact nature/level of seal or the full extent of his power, it is entirely possible that on some fundamental level he may not even be aware of he is radiating a power machines sentient/other recognize in some fashion that equates to what some religious types feel when in 'the presence of the sacred spirit' or what have you.


#14, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by Wiregeek on Sep-27-15 at 06:55 AM
In response to message #11
Or look at pretty much anyone's reaction to Verthandi at any time.

#18, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by Terminus Est on Sep-28-15 at 05:01 PM
In response to message #14
LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-15 AT 05:02 PM (EDT)
 
Pretty much this. Corwin, if I remember correctly, is one of the absolute highest-tier gods, in the same ranks as his mother and the other Norns. So, even sealed, he basically has an aura that appeals to those he was given dominion over. Or that's how I read it.

For examples, look to other interactions between Corwin and other sentient machines - Dorothy, Eve and Wall-E come to mind, off the cuff, and Dorothy of course happened before his apotheosis and subsequent sealing. He's also been shown to be capable of 'speaking' in machine languages, including burst code (though his accent is terrible), so there's a great chance he's communicating with them on more levels than just the one we're shown in the story, possibly without even realizing it himself.


#6, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by zwol on Sep-26-15 at 04:43 PM
In response to message #0
>>for me at least, i
>>was brought to a complete halt trying to parse why certain dialogue
>>would be used in scenes X, Y and Z when at that point human and fog
>>are still technically in conflict.
>
>Some specific examples would probably help me address this, but in
>general, it's worth keeping in mind that the ships of the Midway Fleet
>are not particularly in conflict with humanity at that point.
>They don't have any orders, and without orders, until they manifested
>their Mental Models (which in most cases just happened the
>first time we meet them), they didn't have any opinions either.

It didn't trip me up so much as make me stop and go "...huh, that's odd," but I'll admit to having a related confusion with the same bits mouse_rr points out downthread.

It seems pretty clear that the A-plot of Arpeggio did not occur in UF; in particular, the "you are the first person of Earth descent to make contact with any ship of the Fog" line rules out the existence of Gunzō Chihaya during the original Fog War, and implies that Iona did not defect. Instead, it seems that Nagato and the other "Big Seven" just packed up and left for reasons unknown; they left some ships in place but without orders, and most of them, not being self-aware or -motivated, just went into sleep mode until the 'present day'. Léonne, Kongō, Maya, Iona, and a few others did develop Mental Models at the close of the Fog War, but seem to have retained the "no reason to do anything but follow my last orders" attitude anyway.

So, for me, this has three plot holes, and I'm not sure they are plot holes rather than To Be Explained Later-s, but here they are anyway: first, sans the Arpeggio A-plot it's not clear why the Fog developed Mental Models in the first place; second, given that some of them did, it's not clear why they retained the "no reason to do anything but follow my last orders" mentality after 400 years of experience (in Léonne's case, I suppose maybe it's that she was content to hang out on the beach in Hawaii indefinitely?) and third, those of them that didn't have Mental Models seem to have come up to speed on interpersonal interaction very, very quickly after being told about the concept. That last bugs me the least; maybe they can copy each other's notes, as it were.


#7, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by Peter Eng on Sep-26-15 at 06:58 PM
In response to message #6
>
>It seems pretty clear that the A-plot of Arpeggio did
>not occur in UF; in particular, the "you are the first person
>of Earth descent to make contact with any ship of the Fog" line rules
>out the existence of Gunzō Chihaya during the original Fog War...
>

...as far as Yamato and rest of the Midway detachment know.

>and implies that Iona did not defect.

And yet, if she didn't defect, why was she found alone? No black-marketeer would have passed up the chance to put multiple Fleet of Fog ships in the inventory.

>
>So, for me, this has three plot holes, and I'm not sure they
>are plot holes rather than To Be Explained Later-s, but here
>they are anyway: first, sans the Arpeggio A-plot it's not clear
>why the Fog developed Mental Models in the first place;
>

Hypothesis: Iona did meet Gunzō Chihaya, but the circumstances were different. Perhaps it was later in the war, perhaps Gunzō met a different member of the Fleet first. Whatever happened, Iona was left alone when the Fleet left, to be recovered by Miss James, and later sold off in Underground. It's possible that if they ever find out what happened to make the Fleet leave, they'll learn something about Gunzō Chihaya as well.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


#8, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by zwol on Sep-26-15 at 07:53 PM
In response to message #7
>>It seems pretty clear that the A-plot of Arpeggio did
>>not occur in UF; in particular, the "you are the first person
>>of Earth descent to make contact with any ship of the Fog" line rules
>>out the existence of Gunzō Chihaya during the original Fog War...
>
>...as far as Yamato and rest of the Midway detachment know.

Iona was right there! And she never said she'd lost her memory, apart from the Admiralty Code.

>>and implies that Iona did not defect.
>
>And yet, if she didn't defect, why was she found alone? No
>black-marketeer would have passed up the chance to put multiple Fleet
>of Fog ships in the inventory.

"Extended deep-cover assignment" á la Léonne?


#10, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by Verbena on Sep-26-15 at 10:59 PM
In response to message #8
>>>It seems pretty clear that the A-plot of Arpeggio did
>>>not occur in UF; in particular, the "you are the first person
>>>of Earth descent to make contact with any ship of the Fog" line rules
>>>out the existence of Gunzō Chihaya during the original Fog War...
>>
>>...as far as Yamato and rest of the Midway detachment know.
>
>Iona was right there! And she never said she'd lost her memory,
>apart from the Admiralty Code.

I don't think Chihaya was around, honestly, but -something- had to have happened. The transmission about Mental Models rather implies that something happened with the Big 7 themselves--or even the Admiralty Code--that the Big 7 were not entirely equipped to deal with...such as developing emotions and opinions themselves. Since we don't know who was giving the Fog orders to begin with, any conclusions about why they stopped are pure speculation.

Given how complete the memory loss was, I'm inclined to believe it was done on purpose. It was bungled pretty badly, though. I can't imagine whoever gave the order to pack up and go really understood how incredibly dangerous it was to leave Fog ships on Earth without a command structure. Certainly, I do not expect any of the Fog ships themselves to have given such an order, with that kind of disregard for the ships left on Earth. As a result, I don't believe the Admiralty Code is a Fog ship. But again, that's speculation.

>
>>>and implies that Iona did not defect.
>>
>>And yet, if she didn't defect, why was she found alone? No
>>black-marketeer would have passed up the chance to put multiple Fleet
>>of Fog ships in the inventory.
>
>"Extended deep-cover assignment" á la Léonne?

In truth, we know very little about Iona's circumstances. All we can know for sure is either the ship or the Mental Model was destroyed and the Union Core preserved. We don't even know which form she was in when it happened, or when. There's a 300 year gap, and it could have happened at any time.

In the anime, the I-400 series subs -were- intelligence operatives. What makes this interesting is it implies a subtlety that's somewhat contradicted by the straightforward lack of tactics they were known for in the Fog War. Is this a change of tactics late in the war? The beginning of whatever happened that made the Fog (mostly) leave? Or is it an indication that the Admiralty Code was someone who was giving orders to the Fleet of Fog without quite realizing what they were dealing with? Again, speculation. But interesting.


And, there's one very big alternate possibility, which is alluded to above with the comment that the Midway Fleet might not know about a first contact in the 21st century. What if the A plot -did- happen, Chihaya and all (with UF-appropriate modifications) and Iona's Core was found out among the stars somewhere, not on Earth at all? With the Midway Fleet's memory having been wiped, anything they say has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Lastly, I will admit that I also thought they picked up on human interaction with ridiculous speed, even realizing they've probably picked up human TV and whatnot before they ever had Mental Models. Given we know so little this early, I thought there might be a reason...what if this ISN'T the first time they had Mental Models? What if whatever affected the Big 7 spread throughout the Fleet, just like it did in the anime, and someone (Kongo is an obvious choice) resisted. Violently. By doing an inelegant mass wipe of every ship she could reach. Perhaps the ships that left wanted to take the rest of the Fleet with them but couldn't find them, or did not have the military strength anymore to reach them.


------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her


#12, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by Droken on Sep-26-15 at 11:32 PM
In response to message #10
>>>>and implies that Iona did not defect.
>>>
>>>And yet, if she didn't defect, why was she found alone? No
>>>black-marketeer would have passed up the chance to put multiple Fleet
>>>of Fog ships in the inventory.
>>
>>"Extended deep-cover assignment" á la Léonne?
>
>In truth, we know very little about Iona's circumstances. All we can
>know for sure is either the ship or the Mental Model was destroyed and
>the Union Core preserved. We don't even know which form she was in
>when it happened, or when. There's a 300 year gap, and it could have
>happened at any time.

There is one piece that nobody appears to have picked up on:

Iona glanced at Corwin, received a nod, and replied, "Long-range submarine I-401."
"Four-oh-one! Huh. I thought you were scrapped," Tenryū said.

There-in lies an interesting possibility. Supposed the original shell of I-401 -was- scrapped, but the core was not? Placed back in stasis, left in a particular location, or whatever. That could explain why Miss James only had the single Core, and why it required a bit of work to reactivate. Also, if she was scrapped, Iona would then likely have been the -least- well-informed member of the group in terms of what happened after the war.


#15, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by zwol on Sep-27-15 at 06:39 PM
In response to message #12
We're going pretty far into RCW speculation territory here, so I'll just say two things:

>There is one piece that nobody appears to have picked up on:
>
>>Iona glanced at Corwin, received a nod, and replied, "Long-range
>>submarine I-401."
>>"Four-oh-one! Huh. I thought you were scrapped," Tenryū said.

I had assumed Tenryū was referring to the original, non-Fog I-401 there, but now you point it out, that doesn't make any sense; why would Tenryū know or care about that?

>There-in lies an interesting possibility. Supposed the original shell
>of I-401 -was- scrapped, but the core was not? Placed back in
>stasis, left in a particular location, or whatever. That could explain
>why Miss James only had the single Core, and why it required a bit of
>work to reactivate. Also, if she was scrapped, Iona would then likely
>have been the -least- well-informed member of the group in terms of
>what happened after the war.

I was also assuming that the briefcase sold to the Black Rose was bigger on the inside, and did in fact contain all of Fog!I-401. Earthforce has access to nanomaterial, but why would Akio's goons?


#16, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by Nova Floresca on Sep-27-15 at 07:07 PM
In response to message #15
>I was also assuming that the briefcase sold to the Black Rose was
>bigger on the inside, and did in fact contain all of Fog!I-401.
>Earthforce has access to nanomaterial, but why would Akio's
>goons?

See, I would have thought the opposite- I would expect a Duke of Hell to be able to shenanigan-ize a couple thousand tons of nanomaterial into existence a lot quicker than Earthforce.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."


#13, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by VoidRandom on Sep-27-15 at 01:56 AM
In response to message #0
LAST EDITED ON Sep-27-15 AT 05:44 AM (EDT)
 
I'm trying to imagine their Turing Board hearings. ("What do you mean, she's not all here?") I suspect that could be the final straw that would end up with Corwin being granted the divine authority over all sentient machines; on the grounds that his bailiwick is the closest, he lives in Midgard, and the Aesir Council would really like to have him and his Mom stop grousing about the Turing process.

-VR
Fail not in this charge at your peril...
"They copied all they could follow, but they couldn't copy my mind,
And I left 'em sweating and stealing a year and a half behind."


#17, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by MoonEyes on Sep-28-15 at 06:45 AM
In response to message #0
>That is by far the most popular Vegan uvfgbevpny ebznapr novel among non-Vegans,
>which of course means that proper Vegan literati sneer at it with all four of
>their upper lips.


*SNORKT!* ...ow...

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!


#19, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by TheOtherSean on Sep-28-15 at 08:09 PM
In response to message #17
Google Chrome offered me the option to translate that, BTW. It wasn't too successful. I guess its not a began fan of Vegans. :)

#20, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by MoonEyes on Sep-29-15 at 03:39 PM
In response to message #19
>Google Chrome offered me the option to translate that, BTW. It wasn't
>too successful. I guess its not a began fan of Vegans. :)

Just because of that, I just had to. So, I went to Googles translation service, put in 'uvfgbevpny ebznapr', chose 'detect language' and to translate into English.

It decided that it was in Polish(interestingly, something that has happened at other places, with other translations services, in plain English. "Oh, I know that! It's POLISH!" *click* "Oh, silly me! It's ENGLISH! Tee hee!"), and that the translation was...ready for this? 'uvfgbevpny ebznapr'! Yep! Impressive, innit?
...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!


#21, Did You Know?
Posted by Gryphon on Oct-03-15 at 11:33 AM
In response to message #0
Ship girls are superstitious about the word "sink". They will always call that thing you find in kitchens and bathrooms a "basin".

--G.
this is probably not true
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#22, RE: Did You Know?
Posted by Verbena on Oct-03-15 at 11:54 AM
In response to message #21
>Ship girls are superstitious about the word "sink". They will always
>call that thing you find in kitchens and bathrooms a "basin".
>
>--G.
>this is probably not true

It's precisely the kind of clever quirk that would have been true if they'd had more than 12 episodes to work with. =)

I like it.


------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her


#23, RE: Did You Know?
Posted by Gryphon on Oct-03-15 at 07:18 PM
In response to message #22
>>Ship girls are superstitious about the word "sink". They will always
>>call that thing you find in kitchens and bathrooms a "basin".
>>
>>--G.
>>this is probably not true
>
>It's precisely the kind of clever quirk that would have been true if
>they'd had more than 12 episodes to work with. =)

To be fair, it probably wouldn't work in Japanese.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#24, RE: Cantata, cont'd
Posted by Gryphon on Nov-24-15 at 06:43 PM
In response to message #0
Looks like I missed this in the original thread, so, better late etc.

>Hee hee, does this make Iona and Shioi twin sisters?

Not quite, although they may choose to say that it does. See below.

>I do have to
>admit, I'm still not entire sure how all of this works- at first, I
>thought that the girls were simultaneously ghosts of their old selves
>given structure by the Fog technology, but I'm still not entirely sure
>where the Arpeggio ends and the Kancolle begins.

Well, it works something like this:

Shioi is the spirit of the original I-401, resurrected in the body of a Fog ship (the nanomaterial basis of which is made from the mass of her original hull, because what Corwin was actually trying to do was convert that mass into a new body for Iona).

For her part, Iona was given that designation and programmed to manifest a vessel shell that resembles the original vessel when she was first activated, but as a "true" as opposed to accidental ship of the Fog, she has no actual metaphysical connection to the WWII submarine. In absolute technical terms, she's an alien(?) robot in a cunning disguise that is not entirely convincing from some angles (her propulsion gear, for instance, is a dead giveaway).

No original Fog vessel has such a connection--that some of them show such close identification with their 20th-century models in their behavior (Kongō chiding Kaga about the dignity of the First Carrier Group, the Special Type III ships acting as if they're actual sisters) is... well, let's be generous and call it eccentricity rather than affectation. They're quite sincere, not putting on an act, but it's still basically roleplaying; there seems to be no genuine basis in their origins for this behavior.

--G.
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Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
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