I'm seriously thinking of starting to write again, but for various reasons, I'm not all that confident about my ability.

Should I try anyway, or am I just deluding myself?

If you want to write, write.

Remember, sucking at something is the first step to getting kinda good at something.

>Should I try anyway, or am I just deluding myself?

What BZArcher said. Don't worry about quality at this point -- as I say in my eternally-unfinished fanfic writer's guide, "It's not the writing, but the rewriting, that is great." Or, as Ernest Hemingway put it, "The first draft of anything is shit."

First write, then write well. Trying to do it the other way 'round just frustrates and causes waste of paper.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.

The bigger problem, I think, is I've been stuck at step 1 for 18 years...

(Part of the problem is that since I left grad school, I don't really have the same sort of support network I did when I was working on OR... )

National Novel Writing Month is coming up soon--in November--and is specially structured for just your case.

The point is not to write something -good-, but to write something -at all- and to get A Novel (of sorts) down on the page. Its' aim is 50k words in 30 days--so 1667 words/day in a reasonably coherent format, which is very doable.

There's a fairly extensive support network, and it's a lot of fun to participate.

I've participated for three years, and won--your prize? A novel! That you wrote!--two of 'em. Neither of the finished products are, as yet, suitable for publication--frankly, one of 'em never will be; the thing ended in a wretched and disjointed fashion--but damnit, words got written and that's what counts.

Now, that's a thought...

Further advice on NaNoWriMo:

See if there's a local group who get together to write. There's one in my hometown and they get together each weekend in November to write in company, talk about their stories and have contests of who can write most in half an hour. Lots of fun.

Don't ask them to review your work IN November, but after November (and after you've applied arcane measures like spell-checks) you may find you have a whole new bunch of literary victims/collaberators.

Second this--it's always more fun to write in a group, even if you all are sitting quietly grumbling at your various writing implements.

I've actually pseudo-volunteered (because I'm on the board of directors of the local friends of the library--completely accidentally) to run something like that at the local library this November. Given my proclivities, anyone who does show up is likely to finish, if only through exposure to my programmer-strength coffee.

One of the things which I do--you may find it helpful; you may not--is to 'handicap' myself with the story. I do this through setting a condition before I start writing that limits my scope to some extent--which in my case actually helps a lot, given my usual problem is having too many ideas in my head, which interrupts my flow.

For example, one year I set out to write a zombie novel, with the condition that the zombies be biologically plausible (cleared that with a microbiologist I know) and that there be dramatic tension -without- inadequate lighting. Did pretty well with that.

Another, that I'd be doing a noir detective story with lovecraftian elements, but without using any lovecraftian words--so no squamous, no rugose, no cyclopean, no shoggoths nor Nyarlathotep--that one turned out very well.

Conversely, the attempt to write a western with no proper nouns failed miserably. Little bit too limiting there.

This year, I'm thinking that I'm going to write an Anglo-Saxon epic--think 'Beowulf'--but I haven't yet decided on the plot nor the limiting factors.

I'll have to keep that advice in mind when/if I get started.

My bigger problem, though, isn't so much inspiration as motivation...

>I'll have to keep that advice in mind when/if I get started.
>My bigger problem, though, isn't so much inspiration as motivation...

This is one I fight with myself. All I can say is that you have to discipline yourself to get into the habit of writing. As I say in my fic writers' guide:

Make it a point to write every day. Set yourself a goal (however small) and make that goal every time. A case in point: science fiction author David Gerrold has, since he started writing professionally in the 1960s, required of himself that he complete one "motivational unit" -- a scene, in other words -- in the morning and one in the afternoon, every day. You needn't be quite so demanding of yourself -- Gerrold was, and is, writing to put food on his table, after all -- but you should be making the same kind of effort.

Yes, it's hard at first. And it can be heartbreaking to sit there for hours and look at a blank sheet of paper or an empty document file, and have nothing happen. (Believe me, I know. Ask me about The Book From Hell some time.) But once writing becomes a habit, it can be an amazing relief to know that you can just sit down and create when you need to. Yes, it is oh-so-good to have the muse inspire you, but sometimes the fickle bitch heads to Patagonia for a month or three; you have to learn to write without her. And once you do, you will never be held hostage by a lack of "inspiration" ever again.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.

I understand what you are saying (and that's probably a good idea). But it doesn't really help with that little voice that whispers in the back of your mind that says "why bother? nobody will ever want to read this..."

I hate that little voice. But he just won't GO AWAY.

Take a page from the late Richard P. Feynman, who titled his second autobiography (from an expression his wife used to tell him all the time), "What Do You Care What Other People Think?" The answer to that nagging voice's comment is, "So what? I want to read it, and that's what matters!" Eventually, yes, you may make changes to your writing style to make others want to read it more, but that's less important than you think.

I just recently started writing for the first time in 15+ years, and have now published my first 2 pieces of fanfic on FF.net. The first one barely got noticed, and nobody commented on it. The second has gotten some positive response, including some nice encouragement. But in both cases, I wrote them for me, not the readers. Yes, I did try to polish them so that I'd be on the correct side of Sturgeon's Law, but that was more because I wanted it to be well written and less because of how I wanted others to view it.

The bottom line is, if you want to write, write, even if it's just to get it out of your head. Once it's on paper/disk/whatever, then you can decide what to do with it and who to show it to.

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>

I know that's what I should be doing... the problem is, the way my brain works, I often have a good draft of the story in my head before I ever put fingers to keyboard... which means I don't NEED to write it down, because I can "read" it any time I want.

So I don't.

But, for some reason, that doesn't seem enough. Something in me wants to tell these stories, but it's not strong enough to take control.

Allow me to add my chorus to the voices saying "just write. Worry about quality later."

But to add on that... write as much as you can, get it down, and then invite, no, demand that people rip it apart. Find people whose opinion you trust, friends, forum-dwellers, whoever, people who you KNOW can recognize good or bad writing when they see it, and ask them if they'll read your stuff and tell you what's awful about it. Tell them to be brutal, to pick nits. Your best friend as a writer are people who think you suck and suck hard.

Steal shamelessly. Find methods of story construction of clever literary tricks in other works you like and lift them out wholesale. Someone did something clever with scene construction or timelines? You lift that sucker out and file out the serial numbers if you need it for your own work. Don't plagiarism, but aside from that anything goes. Don't be afraid of not being "original." Nobody is original. SHAKESPEARE ripped off all his best stuff from the classics.

-Merc
Keep Rat

>But to add on that... write as much as you can, get it down, and then
>invite, no, demand that people rip it apart. Find people whose opinion
>you trust, friends, forum-dwellers, whoever, people who you KNOW can
>recognize good or bad writing when they see it, and ask them if
>they'll read your stuff and tell you what's awful about it. Tell them
>to be brutal, to pick nits. Your best friend as a writer are people
>who think you suck and suck hard.

That would be the "support network" I don't have anymore. The last beta reader I had that actually responded with constructive criticism was a fellow named Phil Moyer.

(Which gives you an idea just how long it's been...)

>Steal shamelessly. Find methods of story construction of clever
>literary tricks in other works you like and lift them out wholesale.
>Someone did something clever with scene construction or timelines? You
>lift that sucker out and file out the serial numbers if you need it
>for your own work. Don't plagiarism, but aside from that anything
>goes. Don't be afraid of not being "original." Nobody is original.
>SHAKESPEARE ripped off all his best stuff from the classics.

That's EXACTLY how Otaku Rising got started, although technically Cor did the initial steal. :)

>That would be the "support network" I don't have anymore. The last
>beta reader I had that actually responded with constructive criticism
>was a fellow named Phil Moyer.
>
>(Which gives you an idea just how long it's been...)

You might have to go out there and brave the slings and arrows of public forums, then. I... don't actually know where to go on the internet for help with original writing. ^.^; If this were fanfiction I'd just tell you to go to spacebattles.

>That's EXACTLY how Otaku Rising got started, although
>technically Cor did the initial steal. :)

Otaku Rising is pretty goddamn bad (no offense) but I'll say this for it; it's structurally sound. You understand things like how to format for readability, when it's appropriate to do a scene transition, etc. So you've got that going for you.

You know how to BUILD the house. You just need to work on, y'know, furnishing it.

-Merc
Keep Rat

"Whoever is telepathically assaulting the tourists: please stop."

>Otaku Rising is pretty goddamn bad (no offense) but I'll say this for
>it; it's structurally sound. You understand things like how to format
>for readability, when it's appropriate to do a scene transition, etc.
>So you've got that going for you.

None taken. There's really only one bit I'm truly proud of, and even that one isn't particularly good.

>I'm seriously thinking of starting to write again, but for various
>reasons, I'm not all that confident about my ability.
>
>Should I try anyway, or am I just deluding myself?

Try.

Assume, for a moment, that you're right about your ability. You aren't going to get better by not trying. You get better by practicing the skill, be it writing, weaving, or wargaming.

And if you're selling yourself short, you have even more reason to try, because not trying will stop you from proving yourself wrong.

Peter Eng
--
I hope you'll make mistakes. If you're making mistakes, it means you're out there doing something. And the mistakes in themselves can be useful. I once misspelled Caroline, in a letter, transposing the A and the O, and I thought, “Coraline looks like a real name...” - Neil Gaiman

>Try.
>
>Assume, for a moment, that you're right about your ability. You
>aren't going to get better by not trying. You get better by
>practicing the skill, be it writing, weaving, or wargaming.

True, very true

>And if you're selling yourself short, you have even more reason to
>try, because not trying will stop you from proving yourself wrong.

The bigger problem is the fear I may prove myself right...

>The bigger problem is the fear I may prove myself right...

The only thing to do about that, I find, is be Venkmanian about it. "If I'm wrong, nothing happens! We go to jail! Peacefully, quietly. We'll enjoy it. But if I'm right. Lenny. You will have saved the lives. Of millions of registered voters."

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>The only thing to do about that, I find, is be Venkmanian about it.
>"If I'm wrong, nothing happens! We go to jail! Peacefully, quietly.
>We'll enjoy it. But if I'm right. Lenny. You will
>have saved the lives. Of millions of registered voters."

Now there's a response I wasn't expecting. :)

>
>>Try.
>>
>>Assume, for a moment, that you're right about your ability. You
>>aren't going to get better by not trying. You get better by
>>practicing the skill, be it writing, weaving, or wargaming.
>
>True, very true
>
>>And if you're selling yourself short, you have even more reason to
>>try, because not trying will stop you from proving yourself wrong.
>
>The bigger problem is the fear I may prove myself right...

I don't understand. What happens if you do?

Peter Eng
--
(By proving that his current writing ability was as poor as he believed it to be, Mario unleashed Cthulhu on an unsuspecting world...)

>I don't understand. What happens if you do?

Knowing me? Massive depression and self-imposed isolation.

>(By proving that his current writing ability was as poor as he
>believed it to be, Mario unleashed Cthulhu on an unsuspecting
>world...)

No, that's what happens when I try to sing...

>
>The bigger problem is the fear I may prove myself right...
>

Here's another viewpoint on beginning writing. Seanan McGuire is somebody who's walked the path from horrible fanfic to published writer. Her opinions may not be useful for you, but it never hurts to get another view of writing.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.

LAST EDITED ON Sep-13-13 AT 06:23 AM (EDT)
 
>>
>>The bigger problem is the fear I may prove myself right...
>>
>
>Here's another viewpoint on beginning writing. Seanan McGuire is somebody who's
>walked the path from horrible fanfic to published writer. Her
>opinions may not be useful for you, but it never hurts to get another
>view of writing.

Actually, we've met (I still do Arisia every year, and she guested once). I'll have to read that later. Cheers.

>Should I try anyway, or am I just deluding myself?

1) Of course you should, if you think you'll enjoy it. Whether you're any good at it is very subjective and may even be immaterial.

2) These two items are not mutually exclusive, so "or" is not the right conjunction. :)

I'm not going to sit over here and be all boostery about the rewards and the improvement curve and internal satisfaction and all that, because on some level it'd be hypocritical - gods know I have many days, and moreso as I get older, where I sit looking at TextPad and thinking, What the fuck am I even doing? Seriously? - but I keep coming back because it's something I like to do. That's really the bottom line for me.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Thanks, Ben. I guess I still worry too much about what other people think.

>Thanks, Ben. I guess I still worry too much about what other people
>think.

Man, if everyone did that, Fanfiction.net would have no submissions.

Just start writing what you're thinking. If you're happy with it, share it. Even if you're not, share it. Some of the best stuff I've written has risen from the ashes of being violently subedited, so be prepared to roll with advice. And have fun!

>Just start writing what you're thinking. If you're happy with it,
>share it. Even if you're not, share it. Some of the best stuff I've
>written has risen from the ashes of being violently subedited, so be
>prepared to roll with advice. And have fun!

Sharing it may take a while... (and don't worry, I won't inflict it on anyone here. :) ) I'll need to build up my confidence first.

Coming from someone in the same position? Man, do I ever know how this feels.

What everyone else has already said pretty much sums up every bit of advice I've ever seen, so I only have one thing to add. Look into online roleplay, particularly on Dreamwidth. I know, I know, it's a cringeworthy idea. But you'd be surprised at some of the writers you'll find there, and a fuckton of them come with pre-assembled support groups for beginning writers, just add quirky but generally amiable personality (namely your own). It doesn't matter if it's a completely original setting, or something ripped straight out of a book, movie, etc; just make sure it's something you feel comfortable with. Lotta these guys will surprise you with how supportive they can be, and if you manage to get into a couple you'll find you soon have a cadre of people willing to rip your work apart for fun and profit.

There are, of course, horror stories about this too; as with anything, my opinion and five bucks will get you a small coffee at your java joint of choice.

>Coming from someone in the same position? Man, do I ever know how
>this feels.

Thanks.

>What everyone else has already said pretty much sums up every bit of
>advice I've ever seen, so I only have one thing to add. Look into
>online roleplay, particularly on Dreamwidth. I know, I know, it's a
>cringeworthy idea. But you'd be surprised at some of the writers
>you'll find there, and a fuckton of them come with
>pre-assembled support groups for beginning writers, just add quirky
>but generally amiable personality (namely your own). It doesn't
>matter if it's a completely original setting, or something ripped
>straight out of a book, movie, etc; just make sure it's something you
>feel comfortable with. Lotta these guys will surprise you with how
>supportive they can be, and if you manage to get into a couple you'll
>find you soon have a cadre of people willing to rip your work apart
>for fun and profit.

I've had some REALLY bad experiences with online RP, but I guess I can poke around.

>I've had some REALLY bad experiences with online RP, but I guess I can
>poke around.

Same here, but you occasionally run into something good.

I've been pretty lucky, mostly because I always write with people I already know who vouch for the game before I join up. (Plus I've only been in like... a dozen, total.) If you can figure out what genre you want to try I might be able to toss a link or two your way, by way of some of the aforementioned friends. Or, failing that, I can probably talk some of them into creating something for the same purpose; a lot of the people I know are mods.

>I've been pretty lucky, mostly because I always write with people I
>already know who vouch for the game before I join up. (Plus I've only
>been in like... a dozen, total.) If you can figure out what genre you
>want to try I might be able to toss a link or two your way, by way of
>some of the aforementioned friends. Or, failing that, I can probably
>talk some of them into creating something for the same purpose;
>a lot of the people I know are mods.

Thanks for the offer, but I think the first people I expose to my attempts will have to be people I know and trust. Anyway, back in the Dark Ages, the reason I started writing the first time is because I had (slightly) better luck having the plot go the way I wanted, compared to RPGs. :D

I think you should try again. I just got into the "showing other people my writing" thing a year ago, and I learned 2 lessons right away: 1) Writing and getting read is a really good thing, and 2) if I had tried to reason out what I was doing rather than just doing it, I'd still would be dithering with whether or not to post anything.

Also, if you do happen to set up shop on fanfiction.net, I'd be happy to beta-read for you. Either way, good luck!

"There is no transitive property
of flavor."

>Also, if you do happen to set up shop on fanfiction.net, I'd be happy
>to beta-read for you. Either way, good luck!
>
>"There is no transitive property
>of flavor."

Thanks... I'm not sure what venue I'll be using (if any), just yet.

Simple -- You write until you finish the story. Leave it alone for a while, write another story. Go back to the first story and read it again. Rewrite what needs to be rewritten. Leave it alone again and write another story or read the second story. Come back to the first story and read it again. Rewrite if needed.

If it's finished, send it to people who want to read it, get their feedback. If they give you C&C, look to see what they're talking about makes sense. If more than one person mentions something, look at that and see if you missed something. Make corrections if you think they're needed.

The put it out there -- fanfiction on websites like Mediaminer, fanfiction.net, ect. If original, either try to get it published or publish it yourself.

The key is to write, write, write -- it's the only way to improve....

Craig

>If it's finished, send it to people who want to read it, get their
>feedback.

That's where things have fallen apart for me in the past, and why I lack confidence now. I seem to have a knack for attracting apathetic beta readers. :P