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Topic ID: 740
#0, La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by Gryphon on Sep-25-20 at 10:33 PM
LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-20 AT 02:15 AM (EDT)
 
In the thread about Gallian Gothic Book 2 Act II, there was a brief digression about cooking pizza in a cast-iron frying pan. Here is some more information about that, featuring some photos of a pizza I prepared earlier.

The way I do pizza is pretty basic and low-rent. I make no pretentions to gourmet skill here. I think it's pretty darn good, but I have the palate of a man who grew up in the whitest part of the whitest state in the Union with parents whose idea of daring exotica is the kind of Chinese food you can get in such a place, so take that for what it's worth. Anyway, disclaimers out of the way, here's my take.

For this particular one we're talking about today, I used a frozen pizza dough that was available the last time I made a supply run to the nearest supermarket that does curbside pick-up. I think the brand was "Pepe's" or some such generic Italian-ness. In practice, it doesn't really seem to matter as long as it's a reasonably conventional pizza dough. I get similar results with the Chef Boyardee bags-of-flour-in-a-box mix, or a scratchmade dough made to the following dirt-simple recipe:

DIGRESSION SIDEBAR: Q&D PIZZA DOUGH RECIPE

Combine:
- 2½ cups all-purpose or bread flour
- 1 cup hot water mixed with a packet of active dry yeast (or the equivalent dosage of same out of the jar, which I believe is 2½ teaspoons)
- 1 tablespoon olive oil

Mix with the dough hook on your KitchenAid for 10 minutes. What do you mean you don't have a dough hook for your KitchenAid? Once that's done, throw in a little more olive oil and roll the dough ball around in the mixer bowl to coat it, then cover the bowl with a tea towel, put the bowl in your cast iron pan, and set the pan with the bowl in it on top of your oven while you preheat said oven to 425° F. If your oven has a top vent like mine, that will warm the dough while the oven heats up and make it rise a little faster! Efficiency! Let it rise while the oven heats up and go set up your mise en place* for assembling the pizza.

For my particular old cast-iron pan, which I believe is a 15-incher, half of most commercial dough balls (or half of the yield from the recipe above) is the right amount to make a pizza that goes to the edges. Stretch it as much as you like with whatever technique you can manage, spray the pan with some cooking spray or rub some oil in it (don't forget the sides), flop the dough disk in there, and then use your fingers to kinda concrete-float it to the edges.

My topping choices are equally low-rent: shredded low-moisture mozzarella, that sliced pepperoni that comes in the plastic pillow pack, and pizza sauce out of a can. Chef Boyardee, Don Pepino, whatever floats your boat. (I once punted and used spaghetti sauce instead and it was terrible. Spaghetti sauce is too wet to use on a pizza.) I'll also throw on some shredded cheddar and/or bacon if I have them, but I was out of both today. Sometimes I also put on a bunch of dried oregano. I don't really like oregano that much? But my late grandmother always used tons of it on pizza, so it makes me nostalgic. I don't expect that to make sense to anyone but me, but anyway.

Once it's all in the pan, it looks like this.

Note that you could easily do a deep-dish pizza in this pan, I just haven't here. Also, you can take the cheese all the way to the edge with a little prep (got to make sure the sides are well-oiled or it'll stick like hell when you try to take it out afterward), but I like a little bit of a thumb rest.

Bake at 425° F for 22 minutes. For convection ovens, I dunno. My current oven does have a convection mode, but I developed this method before I bought that oven, and I've never gotten around to figuring out the time differential for cooking this in that mode. Maybe 15 minutes?

When you take the pizza out of the oven, let it sit in the pan until the cheese stops bubbling, then go around it with a spatula to get the lovely maillarded cheese bits free from the pan sides (if you oiled it right they should come right off) before you decant it onto a cutting board. When it's done, it should look something like this.

Here's a view with a slice cut out so you can see how thick it is.

Note that this was a second-pass crust—that is, the second half of a dough ball, which had been in a ziploc bag in the fridge for a couple of days after the first half of it got used. They tend to be a little flatter than the first-pass ones, in my experience.

And here's a view of what it looks like underneath.

Crunchy at the edges, chewy in the middle. Does not flop over when picked up and dump hot cheese onto your hand.

Cleanup: Once the pan is cool, grab a paper towel and scoop out the pepperoni grease, then grab another one and give the whole thing a polish pass. You're done!

Bon appétit!

--G.
* by which I basically mean "get the stuff out of the fridge"
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#1, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by Peter Eng on Sep-25-20 at 11:04 PM
In response to message #0
>What do you mean you don't have a dough hook for your KitchenAid?

This dough sounds interesting, and I'll experiment with it to get some practical experience from the "Stand mixer? What's a stand mixer?" department.

Peter Eng
--
off to see if proofing pizza dough is a thing


#4, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by Gryphon on Sep-26-20 at 00:40 AM
In response to message #1
>>What do you mean you don't have a dough hook for your KitchenAid?
>
>This dough sounds interesting, and I'll experiment with it to get some
>practical experience from the "Stand mixer? What's a stand mixer?"
>department.

I think it'll be fine, you'll just have to knead it by hand for a few minutes instead of letting the dough hook do the work.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#6, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by MuninsFire on Sep-26-20 at 08:16 PM
In response to message #4
>>>What do you mean you don't have a dough hook for your KitchenAid?
>>
>>This dough sounds interesting, and I'll experiment with it to get some
>>practical experience from the "Stand mixer? What's a stand mixer?"
>>department.
>
>I think it'll be fine, you'll just have to knead it by hand for a few
>minutes instead of letting the dough hook do the work.
>

It's going to be on the order of ten minutes, depending on just how angry you are - angry kneading tends to be more forceful, and that means you'll work the glutens out to where they need to be faster ;-)

You may also want to experiment with different flours, or flour mixtures. The amount of protein in the thing matters w/r/t its baking characteristics.


#8, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by Star Ranger4 on Sep-29-20 at 00:37 AM
In response to message #4
>
>I think it'll be fine, you'll just have to knead it by hand for a few
>minutes instead of letting the dough hook do the work.
>
>--G.

For the record, Hand kneeding and tossing, regardless of if it is for bread or Pizza crusts; is a GREAT way to vent one's frustrations at whatever the day has thrown at one........


#10, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by BlackAeronaut on Sep-29-20 at 00:42 AM
In response to message #8
>>
>>I think it'll be fine, you'll just have to knead it by hand for a few
>>minutes instead of letting the dough hook do the work.
>>
>>--G.
>
>For the record, Hand kneeding and tossing, regardless of if it is for
>bread or Pizza crusts; is a GREAT way to vent one's frustrations at
>whatever the day has thrown at one........

Why do you think the guy tossing the pizza dough in the pizzaria is always so cheerful? ;)


#2, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by Astynax on Sep-25-20 at 11:17 PM
In response to message #0
Well, this was an unexpected result from a digression into pizza-land, but it's appreciated. And has corrected what was apparently a bad assumption on my part, that home ovens (well, more or less standard home ovens) couldn't produce the heat needed to get the cheese right. Or the crust really, but I place more importance on the cheese for my personal tastes.


-={(Astynax)}=-
"I'm not surprised to find the EPU forums to be educational, but I am surprised by the topics that education sometimes covers."


#3, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by Gryphon on Sep-26-20 at 00:39 AM
In response to message #2
>Well, this was an unexpected result from a digression into pizza-land,
>but it's appreciated. And has corrected what was apparently a bad
>assumption on my part, that home ovens (well, more or less standard
>home ovens) couldn't produce the heat needed to get the cheese right.

I think the thing most people do wrong there is not leave it in the oven long enough. (Which is something the iron pan helps with, since it's a very efficient heat sink and keeps the crust from burning before the cheese is done.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#5, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by BlackAeronaut on Sep-26-20 at 09:41 AM
In response to message #3
>>Well, this was an unexpected result from a digression into pizza-land,
>>but it's appreciated. And has corrected what was apparently a bad
>>assumption on my part, that home ovens (well, more or less standard
>>home ovens) couldn't produce the heat needed to get the cheese right.
>
>I think the thing most people do wrong there is not leave it in the
>oven long enough. (Which is something the iron pan helps with, since
>it's a very efficient heat sink and keeps the crust from burning
>before the cheese is done.)

I think it has a bit more to do with heat distribution. Ordinary electric and gas ovens can have "hot spots" that are hotter than the rest of the oven. In fact, the professional slab-style pizza ovens are intentionally built this way - it's up to the oven tender to check the pizza frequently and make sure that it's baking evenly. It also makes it much easier to deal with thicker and thinner pizzas, or make a well-done pizza for a particularly discerning customer. (I like myself a well-done pizza now and then - lightly crispy crust, soft and chewy on the inside, and that lightly toasted cheese on top... YUM.)

A cast iron pan, though... Like G said, it acts like a heat sink. And what do heat sinks do? Well, they don't just absorb heat - they do at first - but once it's taken in all the heat it can (given ambient temperatures, of course)? They distribute that heat, all nice and even-like.

This is why convection ovens are such effective pizza-making machines. The convection action ensures the heat is evenly distributed throughout the oven. In fact, most any pizza place that has a conveyor-style oven is essentially just a really big convection oven on steroids - the one where I work cranks out a perfectly done pizza in five minutes. (Which is why many pizza delivery chains can make good on the promise of having your pizza to you in 35 minutes or less.)


#11, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by StClair on Sep-30-20 at 02:02 AM
In response to message #5
I have, from time to time, wondered how my local shop of choice manages to produce their delicious discs so speedily compared to the home model. Thanks for the insider's tip.

#7, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by Sofaspud on Sep-28-20 at 02:00 PM
In response to message #3
I missed the pizza party by a couple days, but you've kind of hit the nail on the side of the head here. You're right in that most people don't leave the pizza in long enough, because most people are used to heating frozen pizzas and those go from bleh to burned in about twelve seconds once they've reached target temp.

But it's really the cast-iron that does the heavy lifting, and depending on oven temp and convection-ness and dough thickness you can do a good pizza anywhere between 12 to 30 minutes -- *if* you have a proper surface to work with in the oven. That's where cast-iron does really well.

Pizza stones can do wonders too and you can get away with less grease. I'm a big fan of homemade pizza but I like my crust to soak up the grease up top and be clean on the bottom, and still be crunchy-yet-chewy, so a pizza stone is perfect for that.

Also, if you are lacking cast iron or pizza stoneage, you can use a good heavy Pyrex-or-similar glass dish, or really any sort of heavy ceramic baking pan. Thin-walled aluminum is Right Out, however.

--sofaspud
--dangit now I want pizza for lunch


#9, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by Star Ranger4 on Sep-29-20 at 00:41 AM
In response to message #7
LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-20 AT 00:42 AM (EDT)
 
>
>Pizza stones can do wonders too and you can get away with less grease.
> I'm a big fan of homemade pizza but I like my crust to soak up the
>grease up top and be clean on the bottom, and still be
>crunchy-yet-chewy, so a pizza stone is perfect for that.
>
Concur, Spudster. best home purchase I ever made, and the one I regret misplacing along the way was my own Pizza Stone.

Now, I just need to find a good (or Emma grade sexy) Peel


#12, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by Gryphon on Sep-30-20 at 02:17 AM
In response to message #0
Apologies if anyone tried to make the pizza dough described in the original post before right now; I just noticed there was a typo in it. It takes 2½ cups of flour, not 1½. I can only imagine with a 1½ to 1 flour to water ratio, it makes a sort of slurry, not dough.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


#13, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by BobSchroeck on Oct-14-20 at 10:47 PM
In response to message #0
I know I'm a couple weeks behind the curve here, but damn that looks like good pizza, Gryph.

I've got a pizza stone which I use in both our outdoor grill and our oven inside, and it does a really good job of holding and spreading heat, like your iron pan. (I really should get one of those, btw. I mean, I have a Kitchenaid and a dough hook, you would think I'd have a cast iron frying pan...) I also have a couple baker's peels, which make it easy to move a raw dough pizza onto and off the stone (onto being much harder, especially if you've forgotten to prep your working surface properly, he says from unfortunate experience).

I know it's probably heresy in a thread like this one, but I've experimented with premade crusts. Most are not worth the time saved and the money spent. That said, Boboli makes an acceptable product, but recently our preferred crust has come from a local outfit called Brooklyn Bread, baked in (you guessed it) Brooklyn. The tops tend to be a bit more... textured (bubbly and uneven) than is convenient for keeping your toppings on, but they crisp up nicely and have a certain something flavorwise that definitely makes for a good pizza.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


#14, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by Croaker on Nov-13-20 at 07:20 PM
In response to message #13
I continue to be tempted by cast iron but have yet to seriously move forward with it. Ah well.

Right now I have two big obstacles to pizza. One, nowhere convenient to knead/rollout the dough... and two, my front teeth don't work all that well right now so taking bites out of anything is an Issue.


#16, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by Peter Eng on Nov-14-20 at 09:01 PM
In response to message #14
>two, my front teeth...

A table knife and fork are acceptable options for pizza consumption.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


#17, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by Star Ranger4 on Nov-17-20 at 03:24 PM
In response to message #13
>I know it's probably heresy in a thread like this one, but I've
>experimented with premade crusts. Most are not worth the time saved
>and the money spent.

Pretty much matches my own personal experience. Interestingly, around chez ranger the frozen pizza liked the best is Red Baron. Somehow it just feels right to everyone else.

Come to think of it, my dad used to alternate between buying pizza dough from the local deli and or making it himself. His recipe, from what I recall, is the same as Gryph's


#15, RE: La Vie Culinaire: Pizza à la Poêle en Fonte
Posted by MoonEyes on Nov-14-20 at 05:37 PM
In response to message #0
>Bake at 425° F for 22 minutes. For convection ovens, I dunno. My
>current oven does have a convection mode, but I developed this
>method before I bought that oven, and I've never gotten around to
>figuring out the time differential for cooking this in that mode.
>Maybe 15 minutes?

For those of us that don't do F, it's be 225° C (actually, about 220, but my own oven for instance has digits in 25-increments).
This has been a Public Service Announcement.

Hoping to try this soon-ish.

...!
Stoke Mandeville, Esq & The Victorian Ballsmiths
"Nobody Want Verdigris-Covered Balls!"