"You would think that the bolt just slides right out the back. You would be WRONG!"

Dunno why, but this particular episode tickled me even more than usual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9bULArrKs4

...!
Stoke Mandeville, Esq & The Victorian Ballsmiths
"Nobody Want Verdigris-Covered Balls!"

I've got to wonder if the arrow in the logo (seen in the first closeup view) is supposed to remind you which end points forward...

--
Unable to save the day: File is read-only.

*Video starts, gun is shown at a distance.*

Oh, this is going to be so bad...

*It goes even worse than expected.*

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

I knew which video you were linked to as soon as I saw the quote.

I love that one of the comments on the video likens the Zip to Tediore products.

(For those of you who haven't played Borderlands, Tediore is one of the many fictional firearms manufacturers whose products are featured in the game. Each manufacturer in Borderlands has a Thing. Vladof guns are absurdly inaccurate and have huge magazine capacities.* Jakobs guns are powerful but slow to reload. And so on.

Tediores? Tediores are disposable plastic pieces of junk that have stupidly high rates of fire, but do negligible damage with each round. "Now I can flatten light ammo against body armor faster than ever before," that kind of thing. Some models can't even be reloaded—you discard them and get new ones, like Reaper from Overwatch.

--G.
* "Vladof! You don't need to be a better shot; you just need to shoot more bullets."
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Not just discarded.

In Borderlands 2, most Tediore guns are so badly made that after you finish off a clip of ammunition you have to throw them away before they explode.

Tediore decided that this would be a feature, and made the ammunition supply unstable to the point that the gun exploding also cooks off all the ammo, making the explosion bigger. I have killed myself accidentally by manually reloading one of these guns between fights.

>Not just discarded.
>
>In Borderlands 2, most Tediore guns are so badly made that after you
>finish off a clip of ammunition you have to throw them away before
>they explode.
>
>Tediore decided that this would be a feature, and made the ammunition
>supply unstable to the point that the gun exploding also cooks off all
>the ammo, making the explosion bigger. I have killed myself
>accidentally by manually reloading one of these guns between fights.

Well, think of it this way: you're not losing a gun, you're getting a free grenade with every reload!

--- Philip

	Philip J. Moyer Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios "Insert Pithy Comment Here" Fandoms -- Fanart -- Fan Meta Discussions

>Not just discarded.
>
>In Borderlands 2, most Tediore guns are so badly made that after you
>finish off a clip of ammunition you have to throw them away before
>they explode.

Well, that makes as much sense as anything else in the Borderlands universe. :)

(I never got very far in Borderlands 2; it's hard, I'm bad at games, and they seem to have disabled the "demigod mode" cheat in the engine, which is all that got me through the first one.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

It does really. Especially since the plot of the second game is essentially "You know, the first Vault turned out to be a prison for a really nasty creatures. Let's go open the second one as quickly as possible!" (And from previews I have seen the 3 one is "So the second vault was also a horrible prison. Oh well, third time's the charm!")

As for the difficulty, Tediore guns didn't make it any easier, since you not only had to figure out how the gun shot, you had to learn how the disposed (and now explosive) weapon arced and train yourself out of manually reloading.

The best is the Tediore rocket launcher. After you shot the last rocket in the clip the launcher launches itself.

I like how he repeatedly recommends that you not buy one of these guns, "unless it's for your collection of terrible guns. Which would be pretty cool actually."

I could see Kei Morgan having a collection of terrible blasters. Or one of the Batmen.

LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-18 AT 10:04 PM (EDT)
 
>I could see Kei Morgan having a collection of terrible blasters. Or
>one of the Batmen.

Kei does in fact have both of those things.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Touche

I know you know that's not what I meant, but still, well played. :)

I should buy one of these. I have a collection of terrible guns, see...

>I should buy one of these. I have a collection of terrible guns,
>see...

Gods help me, I've considered it.

Years ago, I showed my grandfather the Nagant revolver I'd just bought online, and he smiled and said, "Benjamin, we have the same taste in junk." :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

I hadn't seen this before, so this is...interesting to me.

Every single design element he touches on thus far has given me an identical reaction, though - "Well, that's an interesting way to do it, but there's really no clear reason -why-...." followed by "Wait, did this guy just...not understand why other manufacturers do it different?" followed by "...this is just like Not Invented Here syndrome in the software world"

I've seen some business systems that were....essentially the computer equivalent of this gun: "innovative" in their way, but a whole lot of "why?" and unnecessary nonsense to make sure it's not the standard way of doing it.

>I've seen some business systems that were....essentially the computer
>equivalent of this gun: "innovative" in their way, but a whole lot of
>"why?" and unnecessary nonsense to make sure it's not the standard way
>of doing it.

It reminds me a bit of the "gettin' around patents" phase of earlier firearms history, except that there was no earthly reason to do any of it that way by that point in time. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>It reminds me a bit of the "gettin' around patents" phase of earlier
>firearms history, except that there was no earthly reason to do any of
>it that way by that point in time. :)
>

....yes! This. Exactly that.

After finishing watching this, I had another thought: thank goodness 3d printing wasn't available to the guy, because the 'rapid prototyping' that we have nowadays would make for an even bigger mess with this, given the history of the company's pivot.

He does a test firing at the range in a seperate video. Its about as bad as one might expect, even if he has a lucky run with one magazine.

https://youtu.be/Y3fd4goVs-4

"I THINK that is THE most successful string of firing of a Zip 22 that I have ever seen...in my LIFE!

I watched a bunch of the other videos that people have put up on these things, just to get a feel for what I should expect....NONE of them prepared me for it actually FIRING!"

Which is about as text-book a case of "damning with faint praise" as you're likely to get, I think.

...!
Stoke Mandeville, Esq & The Victorian Ballsmiths
"Nobody Want Verdigris-Covered Balls!"

>"I THINK that is THE most successful string of firing of a Zip 22 that
>I have ever seen...in my LIFE!
>
>I watched a bunch of the other videos that people have put up on these
>things, just to get a feel for what I should expect....NONE of them
>prepared me for it actually FIRING!"

This is how you know that Ian is a true ZIP™ Operator™.

--G.
Jesus, that manual.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

>Jesus, that manual.

I think I see a connection to the same odd corner of the firearms world that brought us the Um, What The... ? Specifically, the notion that a real special-forces operative would want to attach a pistol to the underside of their rifle is ridiculous ... but it's the sort of thing that people whose entire conception of special forces operations comes from movies might think a special-forces operative would do. And, therefore, the sort of capability someone who has Walter Mitty fantasies about being in special ops would want on their cheap-ass pistol they bought without any real intention of shooting it at anyone.

Deliberately making and marketing a cheap-ass pistol for mall ninjas seems out of character for Doug Donnelly as described. But I could see him getting a little infected with that mindset himself, as part of the lack of business sense that led to his betting his company on this thing in the first place.

>Jesus, that manual.

That's the sort of manual that has the 2nd amendment taking up a page somewhere.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

>That's the sort of manual that has the 2nd amendment taking up a page
>somewhere.

I was rewatching the video, first to remind myself what on earth this was, and then out of morbid fascination ... around 23m18s Ian is paging through the manual and sure enough, there's the 2nd amendment on the last page.

Thank you for a moment of despair for my fictional avatar, which I will probably end up needing to write.

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"

>Thank you for a moment of despair for my fictional avatar, which I
>will probably end up needing to write.

Heeeh! Well, on the one hand, I apologize for the suffering I have caused, both real and metaphorical. On the other hand, I can't other than look forward to the image of an Ignatine with a Zip 22™ so my shame isn't enormous. It's there. But not very overwhelming.

...!
Stoke Mandeville, Esq & The Victorian Ballsmiths
"Nobody Want Verdigris-Covered Balls!"

After watching that, I'm confounded by the poor design, and by the idea of branding any firearm as a Zip™. It makes as much sense as trying to sell a Kludge™.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.

LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-18 AT 09:07 AM (EST)
 
Interestingly, I have now experienced the pain of a crap gun. Except it wasn't the gun.

See, friend of mine went to GSG, famed elsewhere on the forum for their StG44 replica as bought by Gryph, and bought the M1911A1 replica. And then he went, "I got it today, wanna take it out on the range!?" And, well, I'm not stupid so off we went. Passed by the local sports store and grabbed 3 boxes of .22 and went for the pew-pewing.

And I don't think we managed to empty one 10-round magazine without some sort of issue. Stove-piping, failing to feed new rounds, just plain not firing, you name it. After a LOT of scratching of head and other places, we finally concluded that the Italian "sports" .22LR that he'd bought wasn't powerful enough to properly cycle the slide all the way back, and so it returned both too quickly and too weakly to run the gun properly. The GSG page says "HV", and, well, the ammo clearly wasn't.

So, it wasn't the gun that was crap, it was the ammo...but, it was still painfully annoying to have stop actually shooting.

...!
Stoke Mandeville, Esq & The Victorian Ballsmiths
"Nobody Want Verdigris-Covered Balls!"

So, I was rewatching Ian's videos on this terrible gun, and something occurred to me.

According to ATF's website on the subject, to qualify for Curio & Relic status in the United States, a firearm must be at least 50 years old, be certified "of museum interest" by the curator of an officially recognized museum that exhibits firearms, or "Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event."

I submit to you that the ZiP™ 22 meets that specification in spades. It's definitely novel, rare, and bizarre, and I sincerely doubt that anyone who wants one wants it for actual being-a-gun purposes. If I had one, I would be boxing it up to send off to ATF for evaluation as we speak. (You have to send them an actual example of the gun you're proposing for inclusion. The website kindly lets you know that if it's an unregistered NFA item, i.e., one you weren't supposed to have, ATF "may be unable to return" it.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

> If I had one, I would be boxing it up to send off to ATF for evaluation as we speak.

This has the added bonus of getting the thing out of your gun case before any of your other firearms pick up gremlins from being near the accursed thing.

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

LAST EDITED ON Feb-25-20 AT 06:37 AM (EST)
 
>I submit to you that the ZiP™ 22 meets that specification in
>spades. It's definitely novel, rare, and bizarre, and I
>sincerely doubt that anyone who wants one wants it for actual
>being-a-gun purposes.

Rezzing this thread meant I rewatched the video, and yeah, yeah, it definitely fits the criteria.

> If I had one, I would be boxing it up to send
>off to ATF for evaluation as we speak. (You have to send them an
>actual example of the gun you're proposing for inclusion.

I just imagine the inspector unsealing the box and staring at it for a moment. "...What in God's name is this thing?"

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

I lost a GunBroker auction on one of these. I'm not sure how I should feel about that.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Relieved?

...!
Stoke Mandeville, Esq & The Victorian Ballsmiths
"Nobody Want Verdigris-Covered Balls!"

I just learned that there's a ZiP T-Doll in Girls Frontline. And judging from the description in that there wiki, they nailed her characterization. :)

--G.
That is to say, she has the characteristics of a true ZiP™ Operator™.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

What I love about niche gacha games like Girls Frontline or the various shipgirl games like Kantai Collection and Azur Lane is if they run long enough, they eventually run out of the most well-known examples and have to start dragging in the oddballs and writing game mechanics around them. For GFL, it's bringing in prototype guns that never went into production (ex: G11 & XM29), have achieved meme status (ex: Kolibri), or are infamously bad (ex: ZiP).

LAST EDITED ON May-24-23 AT 06:08 AM (EDT)
 
All look about right, except for one thing, the claim of being "bullpup". On the other hand, it's a wiki so....

Edit to note that...weeeeell. A bullpup should have the mechanism and breech BEHIND the "firing grip", ie trigger. The Zip has it ABOVE, but admittedly, it isn't in FRONT.
Suspect the text is cribbed from The Other Wiki, where it is claimed to be a bullpup.
...!
Stoke Mandeville, Esq & The
Victorian Ballsmiths
"Nobody Want Verdigris-
Covered Balls!"

it's like someone made a lemon squeezer derringer from a Etch A Sketch line drawling