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Subject: "clucomp and protoculture." Archived thread - Read only
 
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Pasha
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965 posts
Sep-07-01, 03:42 AM (EST)
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"clucomp and protoculture."
 
   Ok, late one night, on #Eyrie, we got to talking about clueless and protoculture. We wondered why it yaright'ed it, but was able to give out stuff of equal complexity (AKA, Mr Fusion) and also, why the reflex furnaces worked...

--
-Pasha
Umm, right....I'll be with you in just a sec now...

--
-Pasha
"Don't change the subject"
"Too slow, already did."


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: clucomp and protoculture. Gryphonadmin Sep-07-01 1
     RE: clucomp and protoculture. remandeteam Sep-07-01 2
         RE: clucomp and protoculture. ejheckathorn Sep-07-01 3
         RE: clucomp and protoculture. Phantom Sep-12-01 4

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Gryphonadmin
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Sep-07-01, 03:48 AM (EST)
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1. "RE: clucomp and protoculture."
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Sep-07-01 AT 03:48 AM (EDT)

>Ok, late one night, on #Eyrie, we got to talking about clueless and
>protoculture. We wondered why it yaright'ed it, but was able to give
>out stuff of equal complexity (AKA, Mr Fusion) and also, why the
>reflex furnaces worked...

Mainly, CLULESS punted on protoculture because it's not part of the actual stories of any of the animation that was used to make Robotech. The UF universe's Veritechnology and the like are derived from the Macross tech base; the Genesis Climber MOSPEADA stuff is linked in via a different arbitrary handwave, like every other disparate SF element in UF. (That's why the Reflex furnaces work; in Macross they're just big Super-Technological Science Fiction Power Sources, not... whatever the hell they are in Robotech.)

Or, if you want to get metacontinual, because I think the whole "protoculture = semi-mystic alien power source" thing is stupid.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Sep-07-01, 12:44 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: clucomp and protoculture."
In response to message #1
 
   There are two types of protoculture; the Macross one and the Robotech one. The Macross one is the only one that exists in UF, and that only metaphorically.

In Macross, the term "protoculture" was used by the Zentraedi to handwave away many of the peculiarities they found in humans, most of them being what we would call "love". The Zentraedi is a clone race, and thus emotionally retarded in these cases. The lengths we humans would go to protect non-combatents was ludicrous in their purely military eyes. They also found that our sheer tenacity under the worst of odds was because of this "protoculture".

By this, "protoculture" can be translated literally. It means "first culture". Zentraedi culture doesn't exist at all. This is why the Max/Myria romance is so key to them, and why Minmei was so key to the victory (for those, including Minmei herself, who think that this whole singing to win a war was stupid, consider Tokyo Rose).

When Macek got his hands on Macross, Southern Cross, and Mospaeada, he needed something to link the series together on. So he redefined protoculture. Robotech protoculture is some kind of organic cold fusion fuel with a mind of its own, created by the Invid Flower of Life. Supposedly, this protoculture allowed the original Veritechs (Macross Valkyries) to perform their amazing stunts; the protoculture "reached out" to the pilots and allowed them to semi-psychically control their mecha (in Macross, the semi-psychic control was simply helmet-mounted electrodes, if anything, and the power plants were fusion).

To see where Macek screwed up and showed us this, look in the later eps of the Macross saga. Max and Myria take their baby Dana with them to a Zentraedi capital ship. Zentraedi, of course, have never seen a baby; they come from the clone tanks fully formed. They introduce the child, saying something to the effect of "This is the power of protoculture!". I'm sorry, but making babies with jet fuel is just a little bit too kinky for me, thank you very much...

All this was a bit too far-fetched for us, so we decided that Robotech protoculture didn't exist. The term may show up in the original Macross form if we ever get into Zentraedi or Meltrandi in a later story.

As a side note, this slightly changes the meaning of the word "Veritech". Robotech invented the term, and applied it to all its mecha, implying that they were all of the same series. Thus, the Alpha was an improved Valkyrie (which clearly it isn't). In UF, the word "Veritech" has a rough meaning of "variable geometry" (adj.) or "variable geometry macha" (n.) Cybertronians could likely be called "veritech", but would prefer if you didn't.

--rR

--rR


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ejheckathorn
Member since Aug-9-13
33 posts
Sep-07-01, 08:04 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: clucomp and protoculture."
In response to message #2
 
   If anyone wants a nice pseudo-scientific explanation of protoculture without the mystical baggage, see:

http://www.3dgamedev.com/robotech/Essay/protoculture.html

Eric J. Heckathorn
ericjh@stargate.net

Eric J. Heckathorn


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Phantom
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154 posts
Sep-12-01, 06:25 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: clucomp and protoculture."
In response to message #2
 
   Very Well Done. I agree with this assesment 100%. You really get to
the "Macross" Protoculture concept in 'Macross: Do your Remember Love'
movie (English Sub). I do not rember is "Clash of the Bioriods" (Same
movie different name" was sub or dubbed at this point.
Thanks
Phantom

>There are two types of protoculture; the Macross one and the Robotech
>one. The Macross one is the only one that exists in UF, and that only
>metaphorically.
>
>In Macross, the term "protoculture" was used by the Zentraedi
>to handwave away many of the peculiarities they found in humans, most
>of them being what we would call "love". The Zentraedi is a clone
>race, and thus emotionally retarded in these cases. The lengths we
>humans would go to protect non-combatents was ludicrous in their
>purely military eyes. They also found that our sheer tenacity under
>the worst of odds was because of this "protoculture".
>
>By this, "protoculture" can be translated literally. It means "first
>culture". Zentraedi culture doesn't exist at all. This is why the
>Max/Myria romance is so key to them, and why Minmei was so key to the
>victory (for those, including Minmei herself, who think that this
>whole singing to win a war was stupid, consider Tokyo Rose).
>
>When Macek got his hands on Macross, Southern Cross,
>and Mospaeada, he needed something to link the series
>together on. So he redefined protoculture. Robotech protoculture is
>some kind of organic cold fusion fuel with a mind of its own, created
>by the Invid Flower of Life. Supposedly, this protoculture allowed
>the original Veritechs (Macross Valkyries) to perform their amazing
>stunts; the protoculture "reached out" to the pilots and allowed them
>to semi-psychically control their mecha (in Macross, the semi-psychic
>control was simply helmet-mounted electrodes, if anything, and the
>power plants were fusion).
>
>To see where Macek screwed up and showed us this, look in the later
>eps of the Macross saga. Max and Myria take their baby Dana with them
>to a Zentraedi capital ship. Zentraedi, of course, have never seen a
>baby; they come from the clone tanks fully formed. They introduce the
>child, saying something to the effect of "This is the power of
>protoculture!". I'm sorry, but making babies with jet fuel is just a
>little bit too kinky for me, thank you very much...
>
>All this was a bit too far-fetched for us, so we decided that Robotech
>protoculture didn't exist. The term may show up in the original
>Macross form if we ever get into Zentraedi or Meltrandi in a later
>story.
>
>As a side note, this slightly changes the meaning of the word
>"Veritech". Robotech invented the term, and applied it to all its
>mecha, implying that they were all of the same series. Thus, the
>Alpha was an improved Valkyrie (which clearly it isn't). In UF, the
>word "Veritech" has a rough meaning of "variable geometry" (adj.) or
>"variable geometry macha" (n.) Cybertronians could likely be called
>"veritech", but would prefer if you didn't.
>
> --rR



"When you have eliminated the
impossible, whatever remains,
however improbable, must be the
truth." - Sherlock Holmes


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