Actually, UF-Korra's been to Tuchanka. It was an interesting trip.

--- Philip
*Urdnot Shaman, reverently* "You have the worst job imaginable" *Korra, sagely* "Yep."

	Philip J. Moyer Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios "Insert Pithy Comment Here"

... hhhnnnhhh.

Masks as a metaphor, Mr. Ipkiss, a metaphor, not to be taken literally.

>Having said all that... I gotta ask, what is Katara doing these days.

Well, she's 87, to begin with. Beyond that, they were pretty explicit back in the first series that The Original Show Is Over (Katara basically comes right out and says so in the first episode, and then is not seen again until the last, in which she is... peculiarly ineffectual, and, I still suspect, sandbagging on purpose). I'm not necessarily saying I agree with that? But it appears to be the editorial stance being taken. As such, it would be a bit surprising if a member of the old cast were to suddenly assume a position of that sort of plotular prominence.

Satisfying, mind you. A scene where Katara and Korra team up and just basically drown the entire goddam Northern army would basically pay me back for... oh let's say 70% of the psychic papercuts this show is giving me. But surprising.

--G.
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Fair enough! I've... well, there have been less-than-productive exchanges of opinion between me and people who are already adopting a stance of "Raiko refusing to help Korra means he's in Unalaq's pocket/evil/callous/stupid/all of the above."

(There are also folks out there who are saying 'Fuck the United Republic, Korra should go hit up the Fire Nation and get them to topple Unalaq for her dad.' Which... no. Just... no.)

>Well, she's 87, to begin with. Beyond that, they were pretty explicit
>back in the first series that The Original Show Is Over (Katara
>basically comes right out and says so in the first episode, and then
>is not seen again until the last, in which she is... peculiarly
>ineffectual, and, I still suspect, sandbagging on purpose). I'm not
>necessarily saying I agree with that? But it appears to be the
>editorial stance being taken.

Oh, absolutely. I just find it... dubious. Thematically speaking, Katara passing the torch makes sense. It works well on a lot of levels.

Plot-wise, it has been causing... problems. Not so much in Book 1; Amon was half a world and Katara was retired, and Korra and her son probably seemed pretty capable to her. But as you said, it makes Katara look a bit... ineffectual. And her not being involved in another war breaking out on her doorstep, even in the twilight of her life, also seems odd.

I do love your sandbagging theory, tho. It helps me reconcile some of the more ridiculous things Amon was able to get away with.

-Merc
Keep Rat

Due disclosure, not really my idea. I saw it postulated (sarcastically, I think) in a piece of fanart, in which the spirit of Aang appears to Katara and begs her to pretend she can't do anything about Amon's whammy, because if she does just up and fix it, Korra will never come talk to him.

--G.
"You still got it, forever girl."
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Mmm. :/ The one problem I have with that is that if that -had- happened, that would mean both Katara and Aang would be conspiring to add emotional pain to Korra, who A) didn't need any -more- on her head as it was (already near rock bottom), and B) I can't see Katara or Aang willingly conscionably doing that.

As "funny/sarcastic" as it may be, it doesn't ring as funny to me. :/

(Though, FWIW, I do agree with the "Korra's self identity as the Avatar needed to be severely challenged to get anywhere" theory, and that it needed to be broken down into little bits before she could slowly, via fits and starts, start building up a true "Korra" identity, not the "Avatar" identity that was idealized by her and influenced by other people.)

--- Philip
(there was a reason that all Avatars prior to Aang weren't told until they were 16 years old... so they could get through all the nominal growing up you'd need to have a proper sense of self. Pity Aang got shortchanged in that regard, and Korra short-circuited it entirely)

	Philip J. Moyer Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios "Insert Pithy Comment Here"

In fairness, I said I thought the artist had intended it to be funny. I didn't think it was... only plausible, in a "well, this entire series has been about Moffatian brutality anyway" sort of sense.

--G.
More plausible than Katara, of all people, being helpless before the handiwork of the spiritual equivalent of some mook with a straight razor, anyway. I mean, what the metaphorical fuck? But then, I suppose, that too was in keeping with the spirit of Book 1: 20 pounds of WTF, You Guys in a 10-pound sack.
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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Fair enough, I apologize.

>More plausible than Katara, of all people, being helpless
>before the handiwork of the spiritual equivalent of some mook with a
>straight razor, anyway. I mean, what the metaphorical fuck? But
>then, I suppose, that too was in keeping with the spirit of Book 1: 20
>pounds of WTF, You Guys in a 10-pound sack.

Somebody at some con somewhere needs to go and bluntly ask Michael/Bryan why Katara couldn't fix it, and how they justified it (with what we've learned about the techniques of Healing, Bloodbending, and Energybending from them). Sadly, it isn't going to be me anytime soon. :/ :P

(considering Noatak/Amon had several decades to work on his psychic bloodbending techniques, and those were based on his father's, he did have a frightening level of precision and skill. Sacrificing some basic overall waterbending techniques for super-precision for his chosen tasks? Most surgeons can't sew back together destroyed nerves, after all... this could be considered the same issue, just for chi paths. Maybe Katara could have fixed the issue, but it would've taken something on the timescale of years? Beats me...*shrug*)

--- Philip

	Philip J. Moyer Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios "Insert Pithy Comment Here"

What was constantly irking me is that Katara and every other healer, doctor, and expert consulted could find no discernible difference between how Amon was fucking people up and how Aang fucked up Yakone and Ozai.

Part of that, admittedly, is sour grapes on my part. I was pretty invested in Amon having actual weird-ass spiritual powers, on the grounds that if he was using mundane methods the giant piles of money and hordes of people invested in figuring out what his special mojo was would have caught him out, and very very fast at that.

-Merc
Keep Rat

Objection! It's not her fault she's surrounded by assholes.*

Although, y'know... I'm just curious, you understand, but when does the "Legend" part start? 'Cause we're what, 17 episodes in now, and the only things Korra could possibly have become legendary for so far are manipulability and a knack for failure. Did her player seriously spend so many points to get three elements available to start with that she had to take the Cannot Actually Succeed disad? That seems like a short-sighted design decision to say the least.

This is all very unsatisfactory. I love this character, and all her official creators want to show me is her doggedly stepping on an endless succession of rakes. This kind of thing is why I got into fanfiction in the first place. 22 years later and nothing has changed.

--G.
* Strangely, this is true both of Commander Shepard and "Commander Shepard", IYKWIM.
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Well, they're assholes with good points. Raiko doesn't have a good reason to get involved with the war, and would prefer diplomatic solutions if he could get them (if it is a war, given Unalaq's priorities are not suppressing the south/defeating the rebels, just protecting that portal of his), and Varrick is acting increasingly shady with his "there's a war on, time to make money" attitude. Seriously, the man has a Reality Distortion Field around him hidden in his wackiness -- it's like moral considerations in other people take a serious dive around him. Remember who was pushing for rebellion, hmmm?

And Korra's diplomacy skills could be kind of good... if she wasn't getting increasingly panicked and narrow-minded by fear over her family and country, shutting that all down. Seriously, Mako was the rational one there, he at least was trying to figure out who did the bombing, not immediately jumping to the conclusion "It's the northern water tribe, they're at fault, they're ALWAYS at fault".

(Basically, the Water Tribe Royals AND the water tribes are going to have to put aside those stereotypes of each other pretty soon, or at least ramp them back, otherwise it's ALWAYS going to blow up in their faces eventually.)

>Although, y'know... I'm just curious, you understand, but when does
>the "Legend" part start?

I think it officially kicks in two weeks from now with 'Beginnings' when the whole 'find out why the Avatar exists in the first place' event occurs. Of course, everybody else in the world will now think Korra's dead once word gets back to Republic City, so I guess the 'come back to life' part will help contribute to that.

'Cause we're what, 17 episodes in now, and
>the only things Korra could possibly have become legendary for so far
>are manipulability and a knack for failure.

Korra desperately feels a need to be in control of her life, and anybody who supports that or seems to go along with her choices (or challenges her ego) are automatically going to be temporarily rated higher in advice priority. As she said, she honestly didn't remember the last time somebody asked her opinion on what to do next. Anybody who appears to be "holding her back" gets shunted aside, especially when it appears to have violated her self-agency and trust. (She thought it was Aang's idea to have the compound, so she went along with it, 'cause it was the all-mighty Aang who wanted her protected. When she found out it wasn't his idea, but two of her trusted authority figures, well it's natural that her trust level would take a hit.)

And that seems to be a lesson Tenzin's learning too, with regards to Lemur Trainer Meelo. That perhaps his way of teaching, while potentially successful, perhaps wasn't the right way to go about it with Korra.

>Did her player seriously
>spend so many points to get three elements available to start with
>that she had to take the Cannot Actually Succeed disad? That seems
>like a short-sighted design decision to say the least.

Well, it's the whole "raised in a compound" disadvantage that seriously crippled her (so, in a way, you have a point). Her emotional coping and social skills are not in any way a 'normal' person's -- if anything, she's building a "normal person's" skills and personal awareness up step by step, and will probably be doing so through the entire series.

>This is all very unsatisfactory. I love this character, and all her
>official creators want to show me is her doggedly stepping on an
>endless succession of rakes.

This is definitely the hard knocks Avatar. She is getting all the real world experience that she should have gotten with a normal growing up... save that a "normal" growing up was never going to happen with Korra finding out she was the Avatar at age 4. Either A) she grew up in a compound isolated, where her entire focus was 'become the best avatar she could be', with trying to live up to aang's legacy, so that her self image was all 'Avatar' and no 'Korra', or B) she tried to grow up "normal" in the village with her existing ego of "I'm The Avatar, You Gotta Deal With It" from age 4 coloring everything, and having every other kid in the village and the south developing building resentment, and her ego becoming more "I'm the Avatar, Effing Deal With It" and extremely bullying. Like Avatar Kuruk, but worse. Korra, at least, is fully onboard with 'doing her duty as the Avatar', even though the White Lotus appears to have focussed solely on the physical side of bending without realizing that being raised in an isolated compound is not good for developing any sort of spirituality, awareness of the world or self, or what the duty will actually entail.

This isn't Aang's story, which was a world-swooping "kid-friendly" adventure of preteens and young teens having the adventures of a lifetime while evading the Evil Fire Nation and Saving The World by defeating the Evil Tyrant. Korra doesn't have to do that -- the world is quite happy going along without an Avatar if it needs to -- but the problems she has to deal with include a changed, more "modern" world AND her own emotional/social stunting that she has to fight against. With all that to work on, it's not going to be magically instant, and there will be a lot of rough patches along the way, but it will make the eventual triumphs on Korra's part all the sweeter.

--- Philip

	Philip J. Moyer Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios "Insert Pithy Comment Here"

Good points and detestably high-handed self-righteousness aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. The people who kept getting in Shepard's way had both as well, just to continue relying on a comparison that's served well so far.

>And Korra's diplomacy skills could be kind of good... if she
>wasn't getting increasingly panicked and narrow-minded by fear over
>her family and country, shutting that all down.

Nobody else appearing to give a shit about either probably doesn't help. Particularly in light of:

>Seriously, Mako was
>the rational one there, he at least was trying to figure out
>who did the bombing, not immediately jumping to the conclusion
>"It's the northern water tribe, they're at fault, they're ALWAYS at
>fault".

There's probably a middle ground between Rational Actor and outright friggin' betrayal. Unfortunately, we'll never know, because the person put in charge of making that call was Mako.

(On the plus side, that little stunt did get him dispatched to the curb where he belongs.)

>>Although, y'know... I'm just curious, you understand, but when does
>>the "Legend" part start?
>
>I think it officially kicks in two weeks from now with 'Beginnings'
>when the whole 'find out why the Avatar exists in the first place'
>event occurs.

That's that guy's legend, but OK, I guess it's arguably approaching the ballpark. Still, that'll be... what, a third of the way into the projected total run?

>Anybody who appears to be "holding her back" gets shunted aside,
>especially when it appears to have violated her self-agency and trust.

Which happens all the damn time - that's kind of my point, if I have one. That spot's been poked enough. It's starting to bleed. Let's move on, shall we?

>With all that to work on, it's not going to be
>magically instant, and there will be a lot of rough patches along the
>way

Magically instant? Seventeen episodes! Seventeen. Episodes, in which nothing appears to have been accomplished but the establishment and detailed enumeration of the protagonist's flaws. There's setting up a payoff and then there's just piling on. I'm not asking for magically instant, I'm just thinking it would be nice if they would occasionally opt not to hit her in the head with a blunt object. To borrow the words of the great Casey Kasem, this's fuckin' ponderous, man Ponderous.

>but it will make the eventual triumphs on Korra's part all the
>sweeter.

The way they've been going right along, I'm afraid I've rather lost faith that this part is actually coming.

--G.
"Bloody hell, Stephen, this better be good."
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That seems a little bit unfair to Raiko. His initial meeting with Korra was conducted extremely politely on his part. There was a pinch of self-righteousness in there when he played the "you're very young" card, but aside from that he was very reasonable and honest with her. It could be argued that he should have laid out his own alternative (Korra might have responded favorably to something like "You're close to the Fire Lord's family, are you not? Why don't we see about getting her to come here, and perhaps the Earth Queen as well. If the other three nations adopt a joint position on the south, Unalaq will have to pay attention. We can resolve this without bloodshed") but Korra is the one coming to him hat in hand and wanting action, and Raiko is the first freely elected leader of a nation recently torn by massive race riots.

I wouldn't want to get into a war either, if I were him.

>>Seriously, Mako was
>>the rational one there, he at least was trying to figure out
>>who did the bombing, not immediately jumping to the conclusion
>>"It's the northern water tribe, they're at fault, they're ALWAYS at
>>fault".
>
>There's probably a middle ground between Rational Actor and outright
>friggin' betrayal. Unfortunately, we'll never know, because the
>person put in charge of making that call was Mako.

I can't believe I'm going to say this... but I'm going to defend Mako on this one.

(God, it hurt just to TYPE that.)

Mako was put in the untenable position of betraying his girlfriend or betraying his country. Up until Raiko approached him point-blank, he resolved that tension by remaining silent on Korra's behalf. But Raiko asked him a direct question, and since he was already (rightly) convinced that Korra conspiring with the Fire Prince to hijack the Republic's fleet was a supremely bad idea... well, he made the call he did.

Yeah, it was an outright betrayal. There wasn't a good choice there, but I think he made the least bad one.

>(On the plus side, that little stunt did get him dispatched to the
>curb where he belongs.)

Now THIS I'll stand up and goddamn cheer for. I would have preferred that Korra dump him instead (Why is Mako always the one with the agency in his relationships?) but I'll take what I can get. Sadly, I'm sure they're end up reconciling, but god damn, it felt good.

(It would have been BETTER if Korra had been like "Asami, I am SO SORRY, Mako is a giant idiot and so am I. Boys, right? Fuck'em. Listen, I need to go to the Fire Lord to beg for a fleet, and I could really use a friend. Plus, the Fire Nation is always in the market for new and crazy weapons, you could unload a few planes there I bet.")

>>Anybody who appears to be "holding her back" gets shunted aside,
>>especially when it appears to have violated her self-agency and trust.
>
>Which happens all the damn time - that's kind of my point, if I
>have one. That spot's been poked enough. It's starting to bleed.
>Let's move on, shall we?

I have some hope that now that the Spirits have taken Korra aside for a little chat about Doing It Wrong, this is what's going to happen.

>>With all that to work on, it's not going to be
>>magically instant, and there will be a lot of rough patches along the
>>way
>
>Magically instant? Seventeen episodes! Seventeen. Episodes,
>in which nothing appears to have been accomplished but the
>establishment and detailed enumeration of the protagonist's flaws.

And of her virtues. Korra wants so badly to do good and right and she loves everyone around her so fiercely, even when she's toweringly angry at them, that it pours right off the screen and you can't help but love her for it.

... well, that's what she's like for me, anyway.

>There's setting up a payoff and then there's just piling on. I'm not
>asking for magically instant, I'm just thinking it would be nice if
>they would occasionally opt not to hit her in the head with a
>blunt object.

Hmm.

Well, it took them even longer to stop hitting Zuko in the head with blunt objects. The entire first and most of the second season were nothing but him either digging himself in deeper or getting thrown into holes by others.

That said, Zuko was the dueteragonist, not the protagonist; while he was learning how to be a Real Boy, you had the Gaang out there giving us triumphs and victories in the name of good. I'm pretty sure the writers think they gave us that when Korra beat down Amon... but the Amon beat-down left me pretty cold.

Having said all that... this weeks episode was good. REALLY good. Even the voice acting improved. If it isn't just an aberration and they continue along this arc, good things are in store for us.

-Merc
Keep Rat

Ha, backed into the iron maiden by your own dedication to contrarianism. I can't help but admire that, in a way.

>And of her virtues. Korra wants so badly to do good and right and she
>loves everyone around her so fiercely, even when she's toweringly
>angry at them, that it pours right off the screen and you can't help
>but love her for it.

Well, there's that.

It's a shame her reward for that virtue seems to consist almost exclusively of disappointment so far, though. One hates to keep banging on about that, but then, the show does, which is kind of my main beef.

>I'm pretty sure the
>writers think they gave us that when Korra beat down Amon... but the
>Amon beat-down left me pretty cold.

Mm. Yes. Mainly because it was virtually accidental. I've noted this before, but in Book 1, the good guys didn't win, the bad guys just somehow managed to lose, which was about as satisfying as that plasticky diet cheese.* So I admit I'm coming into the second series with an already-depleted store of trust that the people running the program are prepared to change those stripes.. or are even interested in doing so. There's always the possibility that they've decided to run with the This Is A More Mature Story thing straight to the last platform in No Fun Station. I went through a phase like that. It lasted for much of the mid-nineties and left me with a chunk of back catalog that I would airbrush out like a dead cosmonaut if I thought I could get away with it, and that gives me the Fear.

--G.
* And the defense that they didn't know, Book 1 might've been the entire run of the show? That only makes it worse. I mean, imagine if that had been the entire thing. What a monumental disappointment.

>Yeah, it was an outright betrayal. There wasn't a good choice there,
>but I think he made the least bad one.

I could debate this, if there was any point in doing that, but instead I believe I shall turn to my good personal friend Lex Luthor (as played to the hilt by Kevin Spacey in the otherwise execrable Superman Returns) for my rebuttal:

Wroonnnng!

That's not actually what I came back here for, but it was there, so I figured I might as well get it out of the queue.

>That said, Zuko was the dueteragonist, not the protagonist

Oh, bull. I can't believe I missed this the first time around. Zuko isn't the deuteragonist of Avatar: The Last Airbender. He's just a mook with a name until about a third of the way through, and then becomes the quintessential supporting character with airs above his station. In spite of the fact that that's him in the title, Aang is the deuteragonist of Avatar, which is plainly and inescapably first and foremost about Katara. :)

--G.
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Well, I don't suppose I can argue with that.

... well, I could. I've argued with raised eyebrows and significant looks before, a straight-up contradiction at least has a clear starting point.

But sometimes having a gift is knowing when not to use it.

-Merc
Keep Rat

Dude, you just argued with yourself! And won! You are truly epic. :)

Also, please enjoy the following mental image, which is the caller-ID-triggered voicemail announcement set to play when Certain People call Korra's cellphone:

<ring>

<ring>

<ring>

<click>

Hi, you've reached the Avatar Spirit. I'm not manifest in a mortal vessel who's interested in talking to you right now. Please call again during the next iteration of the cycle. Thanks!

<beep>

This voice mailbox is full. Goodbye!

<click>

--G.

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Well, she's been taking credit for taking down the Equalist Uprising, and people seem content to let her... so there's that!

More seriously, while I'm sure that at some point Korra is going to win huge, because this isn't a tragedy or a farce (yes, it's still not a farce, shut up), you don't necessarily have to be super-amazing to have a legend about you; the term has a more neutral meaning where it's purely descriptive, not pejorative. One of my favorite Russian legends is about a little girl who dies in the snow; she wasn't that amazing, but she does have her own legend.

It's kind of like how "hero" has undergone some linguistic drift in english; these days it means "paragon of whatever ideology, virtues, and skills someone considers to be best in life" rather than the original meaning, which was "someone possessing excellence beyond that of regular people."

>Did her player seriously
>spend so many points to get three elements available to start with
>that she had to take the Cannot Actually Succeed disad? That seems
>like a short-sighted design decision to say the least.

Zuko's old player called dibs on the Avatar in the next game. Sadly, he thought he didn't need to really alter his design philosophy, because hell, his last PC ended up ruling his own country.

>This is all very unsatisfactory. I love this character, and all her
>official creators want to show me is her doggedly stepping on an
>endless succession of rakes.

Aang did his own share of rake-stepping, to be fair, but usually bounced back from it faster than Korra has been.

Can I say, just on my own, tho, that I'm kind of rocking the dichotomy? With Aang everyone was expecting this great warrior from a dead people who'd kick Fire Lord ass and take Fire Lord names, and they got the conciliatory peacemaker. With his successor, everyone was expecting another calm diplomat, and they got... Korra.

I'd also like to endorse just about everything Phil said below, which saves me the trouble of typing out my own version. I do love to hear myself talk, but there ARE practical limits.

One thing with regard to Varrick though... I'm getting this sneaking suspicion that HE is the big bad this go-round. I mean, we're all pretty sure that he bombed the Southern Cultural Center, right? All on the same page there?

I kind of think maybe Unalaq is actually going to be spun around at the last minute into "no, actually, he was a semi-good guy all along." I went back and did some overly close watching; Korra never actually openly accused him of paying the ice barbarians to attack the North and using the situation to frame Tonraq. All she says to him is "You got him banished so you could become Chief." I could totally see a thing where Judge Hotah was a Varrick plant and Unalaq honestly believes he's doing what is best and really DID think he was interceding after a free and fair trial to get his brother a reduced sentence and etc etc.

And I'm not sure how I'd feel about that. I love weird twisty shit, don't get me wrong, and I even love it when the good guys and bad guys aren't who they seem; I mean, I'm a straight up "I liked Jaime Lannister, Defenstrator of Children, before it was cool" hipster. But Varrick is awesome and Unalaq is awful, so... I dunno.

-Merc
Keep Rat

Okay, be honest, you're getting the episodes a week in advance, right?

I'll be honest, I hadn't really pieced things together until tonight, though I did entertain your theory. But I liked my crazy, Howard Hughes expy character and now I think I might have a little cry.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Columbia pilgrim

Sometimes, being an inveterate close-watcher and overthinker pays dividends.

The writers hid it as well as these things usually need to be hidden. The only things that gave him away were the fact that since they telegraphed heavily it wasn't the Northerners behind everything, it would have to be someone we knew in order for the reveal to have punch. Coupled with Varrick's amoral bonhomie ("Bribery, of course!" "Lie big and leave fast." "I was a big contributor to his campaign. Him, and the other guy." and numerous others) and he was the natural suspect.

>I'll be honest, I hadn't really pieced things together until tonight,
>though I did entertain your theory. But I liked my crazy, Howard
>Hughes expy character and now I think I might have a little cry.

Yeah, I've been going back and forth on whether this makes Varrick more or less awesome. On the one hand, with two simple words and a smile, he instantly became the most compelling villain legend of Korra has ever had, blowing right by Unalaq, Tarrlok, Amon, and Lieutenant Batroc. On the other hand, Varrick the crazy cross of Tony Stark and Howard Hughes was also pretty neat, so now that he's gone the full Littlefinger... I dunno.

One thing is for certain, the fallout from this is going to be riveting. I don't think Varrick is going to try and eliminate Mako. Oh no. He's going to try and own Mako.

You know. The same way he now owns just about everyone important to Mako.

And poor Asami, am I right? She looked so... so happy, you know? Like she'd pulled a rabbit out of her hat again to save her company and was about to start crying from the release of stress. Man. She is the best lady ever.

-Merc
Keep Rat

For all the manifold reservations I have about this show (I've stopped watching it altogether as of a couple weeks ago, and have asked Phil to notify me if and when they drop the "beatings will continue until morale improves" policy), I can say without qualification that I love Asami. In particular, I love the way they've played her against type from eight o'clock on Day One. "Hi! Here is a wealthy, beautiful, impossibly glamorous young woman. You know how the rest of this verse goes, I'm sure. Ha ha, but no! She's actually really, amazingly nice. And not that bothered about the condition of her nails."

Come to think of it, Asami and Korra herself are the only characters on the show I really and truly love* - which is probably why I have such an easy time picturing them finding happiness together, much to my colleague's dismay. :)

--G.
* Well, except maybe Naga. And Ikki.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

BFF's, I can see and I am totally on-board with. "Twu Wuv Foevvah", though, I still have trouble with, since 1) they rarely spend any extended time together to allow any extended connections to form, and 2) Korra and Asami have their own trials to go through (breaking down the ego-self (Buddhist philosophy - this all has a purpose)), and can't necessarily support the other through it.

--- Philip
(and right now, Mako's going equivalently through what Korra's been going through, and is having just as much difficulty as she was -- through parallel experiences come understanding.)

	Philip J. Moyer Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios "Insert Pithy Comment Here"

There's plenty of time for that. Hey, man, you're the one who wanted us to take a Much Longer View when it came to the UF versions of these characters. Don't take it out on me...

>(and right now, Mako's going equivalently through what Korra's been
>going through, and is having just as much difficulty as she was --
>through parallel experiences come understanding.)

... I said don't take it out on me. Sucka, that was deliberate, and frankly petty and beneath you. :)

--G.
seriously, though, I'm not havin' that.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

---
"She's old and lame and barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

Wait, I didn't know you were from Newcastle.

--G.
"Oi, Phil, ya see that fat fella from Maine there, 'e's spilt your plotline! What're ya gonna do? Ya can't do nothin'."
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

This specific complaint has been levied at the series since Book 1, in fact. You have your two female leads, and they almost never speak to each other or get a lot of time to bond, and the vast bulk of their interaction has been about... the boy they both like. People expected a bit more meat on those bones.

Katara and Toph developed a complex interpersonal relationship literally from day one. Not necessarily a PRODUCTIVE one, given their respective personalities, but it was there. Korra and Asami... well. In my mind, I imagine this awesomely complex friendship-slash-romance between them, because good god, of COURSE that's what you do with these two characters, it's just as obvious as Katara and Aang were, but... well, even I have to admit that it mostly isn't up on screen.

-Merc
Keep Rat

Yeah, it's a bit tricky, innit? On the one hand, you want to know what's happening right now, but on the other hand, that means watching Korra have to hit bottom before she rises like a phoenix. That could be pretty gut-wrenching if you have to watch it unfold week after week. There's an argument to be made that this kind of serialized storytelling works best taken as a holistic whole, where you can burn through the entire arc all in one go and not let things fester.

Hell, you may be lucky you discovered AtlA after the fact. There was a ten-month gap between watching Zuko stab Katara in the face at Ba Sing Ce and Azula lightning the hell out of Aang, and then another ten-month gap between the Day of Black Sun and Nickelodeon burning off the entire back half of Season 3 in a single week-long extravaganza.

There was some mental stress involved in the waiting, is what I am saying.

>I can say without qualification that I love
>Asami.

I'll drink to that. Asami is far and away my favorite character. Sorry, Korra.

>In particular, I love the way they've played her against type
>from eight o'clock on Day One. "Hi! Here is a wealthy, beautiful,
>impossibly glamorous young woman. You know how the rest of this verse
>goes, I'm sure. Ha ha, but no! She's actually really, amazingly
>nice. And not that bothered about the condition of her nails."

One of the things I love about Asami is that she does care about the condition of her nails and her hair (seriously, that hair is amazing; her regimen must be very impressive) but does it without coming as vain or arrogant at all.

Asami is just... nice. I'm not sure she knows HOW to be mean. I don't think I've ever even seen her get angry. I've seen her sad and upset and determined, but even when she was shock-gloving Equalists and hiding in sewers and watching her boyfriend hit on another girl right in front of her, she never got mad.

>Come to think of it, Asami and Korra herself are the only
>characters on the show I really and truly love* - which is probably
>why I have such an easy time picturing them finding happiness
>together, much to my colleague's dismay. :)

Oh man, you too? Phil has people beating the drum for awesome Korrasami goodness at both the production level AND the reader level. No wonder he's been getting a bit tetchy about it. :)

-Merc
Keep Rat

Uh... what?

--- Philip
forget it, I'm out of this thread.

	Philip J. Moyer Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios "Insert Pithy Comment Here"

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.