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Eyrie Productions, Unlimited

Subject: "Sure, I'll make the first comment..." Archived thread - Read only
 
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Perko
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Sep-23-01, 11:37 AM (EST)
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"Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
 
   It's out. Go read it.

That's my comment.

-Craig


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Chris Redfield Sep-23-01 1
     RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Verbena Sep-23-01 2
         RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Polychrome Sep-23-01 3
             RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Gryphonadmin Sep-23-01 5
             RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Astynax Sep-23-01 13
                 RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Verbena Sep-24-01 33
                     RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Perko Sep-25-01 37
         RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Gryphonadmin Sep-23-01 4
             RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... megazone Sep-23-01 7
             RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Verbena Sep-23-01 9
                 RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Gryphonadmin Sep-23-01 10
                     RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Sean_G Sep-24-01 28
                         RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... jerteam Sep-24-01 34
                             RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Laudre Sep-24-01 35
  RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Laudre Sep-23-01 6
     RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Gryphonadmin Sep-23-01 8
         RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Neophyte Sep-23-01 11
             RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Gryphonadmin Sep-23-01 12
         RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Laudre Sep-23-01 16
             RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Gryphonadmin Sep-24-01 17
                 RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Laudre Sep-24-01 21
                     RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Gryphonadmin Sep-24-01 22
                         RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Laudre Sep-24-01 23
                         RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... trussteam Sep-24-01 27
                         RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Matrix Dragon Sep-25-01 38
                             RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Laudre Sep-25-01 39
                 RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Rod_H Sep-24-01 25
             RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... trussteam Sep-24-01 26
             RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... BobSchroeck Sep-24-01 30
     RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... remandeteam Sep-23-01 14
         RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Reverend Hammer Sep-24-01 24
     RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Astynax Sep-23-01 15
     RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... remandeteam Sep-25-01 42
  RE: latest Symphony Astynax Sep-24-01 18
     RE: latest Symphony Gryphonadmin Sep-24-01 19
         RE: latest Symphony goldenfire Sep-24-01 20
             RE: latest Symphony dbrandon Sep-24-01 29
         RE: latest Symphony Matrix Dragon Sep-25-01 40
  RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... BobSchroeck Sep-24-01 31
     RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Gryphonadmin Sep-24-01 32
         RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... BobSchroeck Sep-25-01 41
     RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Offsides Sep-25-01 43
         RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... BobSchroeck Sep-25-01 44
             RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Gryphonadmin Sep-25-01 45
  RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment... Star Ranger4 Sep-25-01 36

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Chris Redfield
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255 posts
Sep-23-01, 12:52 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #0
 
   >It's out. Go read it.
>
>That's my comment.
>
>-Craig

Now, for a real comment... I REALLY dig the jab at esperanto :D

--------------------------------------
Whoa! What IS it?!

-------------------------------------
Chris can't handle chemicals


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Verbena
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771 posts
Sep-23-01, 03:15 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #1
 
   >>It's out. Go read it.
>>
>>That's my comment.
>>
>>-Craig
>
>Now, for a real comment... I REALLY dig the jab at esperanto :D

HA! I had to laugh at that as well--I realize I haven't been posting lately, but I'm one of those stick-in-the-mud Americans who believes in never fixing anything that isn't broken...well, after taking physics, I have to admit that using metric saved my skull. But other than that...

Anyway, as for my own personal brand of commentary: Nice. Very nice. I was especially pleased (well, I'm not happy she's this way, but happy she's true to the original character) about Juri's natural fatalism, her assumption that Kate isn't interested in her solely because Juri would -want- her to be that way. And, if she's not nearly so nasty about it as in the series, that's easily chalked up to the growing, learning experience she's gone through during the course of the series. Hell, that's what the whole series is about anyway.

Speaking about growing up and coming closer to goals and whatnot, I sort of have to ask: Are Juri and Shiori going to be reunited at some point? As cute as Juri and Kate would be, I can't help but think that after all the heartbreak Juri's gone through, she deserves to finally snag the girl she's been after since day one. Heck--much earlier than that. And, after Shiori's apparent growth and maturity near the end, perhaps she deserves to finally be with someone special, too. No, I don't consider Ruka special. =P It's kinda hard to reconcile--I don't see any of the three girls as polyamory material--but then again, I never foresaw Kei and Skuld or Megazone and Larry Mann getting along, either, though their situations aren't strictly polyamory. Perhaps I should chalk it up to the UF universe or the SKU universe and leave it at that. Either works, I have to admit, and both together? Hoo, boy. Much room for speculation.

Anyway, I was most enchanted by this piece and I hope to see more good stuff from the Eyrie folks in the future. Especially since this next segment promises to have some hellacious developments within. Keep up the good work!


--"I invoke the rites of fiery Muspelheim, and give thy soul up to the inferno's embrace..."

------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her


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Polychrome
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476 posts
Sep-23-01, 03:56 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #2
 
   >
>Anyway, as for my own personal brand of commentary: Nice. Very nice. I
>was especially pleased (well, I'm not happy she's this way, but happy
>she's true to the original character) about Juri's natural fatalism,
>her assumption that Kate isn't interested in her solely because Juri
>would -want- her to be that way. And, if she's not nearly so nasty
>about it as in the series, that's easily chalked up to the growing,
>learning experience she's gone through during the course of the
>series. Hell, that's what the whole series is about anyway.

Damn right. All of the characters are developing nicely.
I kept wondering if "something" was going to happen,
but I should have realized that SotS isn't that fast-paced.

>Anyway, I was most enchanted by this piece and I hope to see more good
>stuff from the Eyrie folks in the future. Especially since this next
>segment promises to have some hellacious developments within. Keep up
>the good work!

Hell yeah.

In order to keep this from being completely a Me Too Post:
Are the police officers from anything, or are they original?

>--"I invoke the rites of fiery Muspelheim, and give thy soul up to the
>inferno's embrace..."

"Ifrit Caress!"
"Ye must desire respite from thy empty existance. Thou shalt have it!"


Polychrome


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Gryphonadmin
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19234 posts
Sep-23-01, 05:13 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #3
 
   >Damn right. All of the characters are developing nicely.
>I kept wondering if "something" was going to happen,
>but I should have realized that SotS isn't that fast-paced.

Well, more to the point, Kaitlyn and Juri aren't that fast-paced. :)

(And, really, who can blame either one of them? Yeesh.)

>Are the police officers from anything, or are they original?

They're original, but a couple of the Brasserie Dauphine's regulars are inspired by supporting characters from George Simenon's Maigret novels. Two of Superintendent Maigret's subordinates, Inspector Janvier and Sergeant Lucas, have descendents in those scenes; Janvier's great-x-grandson runs the brasserie, and Lucas's is following the family tradition and working at the Quai des Orfèvres. (The brasserie itself is a kind of character in the Maigret novels, come to that. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Astynax
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717 posts
Sep-23-01, 10:03 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #3
 
   >"Ye must desire respite from thy empty existance. Thou shalt have it!"

'Art thou a descendent of Erdrick? Hast thou any proof?'

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Sorry, upon reading the above, that line from Dragon Warrior popped into my head and refused to let go until shared with the world"


-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


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Verbena
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771 posts
Sep-24-01, 09:02 PM (EST)
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33. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #13
 
   >>"Ye must desire respite from thy empty existance. Thou shalt have it!"
>
>'Art thou a descendent of Erdrick? Hast thou any proof?'
>
>-={(Astynax)}=-
>"Sorry, upon reading the above, that line from Dragon Warrior
>popped into my head and refused to let go until shared with the world"

*grin* The actual line is, "Celestial Star!", but you wouldn't know that without playing my own personal brand of crack, Valkyrie Profile. Speaking of which, I need to change my sig at some point...hmm.

--"I invoke the rites of fiery Muspelheim, and give thy soul up to the inferno's embrace..."

------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her


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Perko
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Sep-25-01, 00:56 AM (EST)
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37. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #33
 
   Mmmm... Valkyrie Profile...

Everyone go play it! It's the only game where you have a reason behind manifesting your party for combat sequences, and then send them back to nothingness so you can be the only person walking/flying around. It's also written really, really well.

On the down side, seriously, go find a non-spoiler pointer on how to get the good ending, because it's hard to get otherwise, and it's very, very, very worth it.

-Craig


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Gryphonadmin
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19234 posts
Sep-23-01, 05:08 PM (EST)
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4. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #2
 
   >Speaking about growing up and coming closer to goals and whatnot, I
>sort of have to ask: Are Juri and Shiori going to be reunited at some
>point?

Well, you ought to know by now that I don't answer questions like this one, either because the answers give away things I would prefer to keep as surprises or because I don't want to lock things into a solid path ahead of time and prefer to let them evolve at their own pace.

But in this case, I'll break with that. No, no they aren't. ("Reunited" is a bad choice of words anyway, since they were never together in the first place.)

Why not? Well, assuming for the sake of argument that our Cephirean friends are going to get the opportunity to go home at some point, it's really very simple: However much she might have grown and matured, Shiori's just plain not interested. She might be nicer about it than she's been in the past, now that she's not... well, you know, a mindless puppet of Evil... but she simply doesn't wanna go there. It's too bad for Juri, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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megazone
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Sep-23-01, 06:31 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #4
 
   >a mindless puppet of Evil... but she simply doesn't wanna go there.
>It's too bad for Juri, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

Yeah - she isn't just not interested in Juri - she isn't interested in *women*. Makes things a bit harder.

Having had a few cases of falling hard for a lesbian, I can sympathize. Though, generally we were able to be good friends, even going out and scoping other women together. So there is always hope Juri and Shiori could be good friends. We'll see.

"Hey, I think I'll ask her out."
"No man, don't bother, you don't have a chance."
"Hey! Why not?! You don't think she'd like me?"
"Just trust me on this one."
- a recurring wedge conversation

-MegaZone, megazone@megazone.org
Personal Homepage http://www.megazone.org/
Eyrie Productions FanFic http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
See what I'm selling on eBay


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Verbena
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771 posts
Sep-23-01, 06:47 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #4
 
   >>Speaking about growing up and coming closer to goals and whatnot, I
>>sort of have to ask: Are Juri and Shiori going to be reunited at some
>>point?
>
>Well, you ought to know by now that I don't answer questions like this
>one, either because the answers give away things I would prefer to
>keep as surprises or because I don't want to lock things into a solid
>path ahead of time and prefer to let them evolve at their own pace.
>
>But in this case, I'll break with that. No, no they aren't.
>("Reunited" is a bad choice of words anyway, since they were never
>together in the first place.)

I didn't mean solely romantically, but that was certainly what I had primarily had in mind.

>
>Why not? Well, assuming for the sake of argument that our Cephirean
>friends are going to get the opportunity to go home at some point,
>it's really very simple: However much she might have grown and
>matured, Shiori's just plain not interested. She might be nicer about
>it than she's been in the past, now that she's not... well, you know,
>a mindless puppet of Evil... but she simply doesn't wanna go there.
>It's too bad for Juri, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

Well, when you start talking about things like miracles and preordained destinies, I had to wonder. At least it isn't the usual 'No, because I think Shiori should be shot' reflex. =P Why some people want to see Shiori shot and can tolerate people like Touga and Akio, I'll never understand.


--"I invoke the rites of fiery Muspelheim, and give thy soul up to the inferno's embrace..."

------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her


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Gryphonadmin
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19234 posts
Sep-23-01, 07:32 PM (EST)
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10. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #9
 
   >Well, when you start talking about things like miracles and
>preordained destinies, I had to wonder. At least it isn't the usual
>'No, because I think Shiori should be shot' reflex. =P

Well, it's true that I'm not very fond of Shiori, but that doesn't really enter into it in this case. Juri's just been barking up the wrong tree, plain and simple...

>Why some people
>want to see Shiori shot and can tolerate people like Touga and Akio,
>I'll never understand.

For the record, I never said I could tolerate Akio or Touga. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Sean_G
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Sep-24-01, 11:56 AM (EST)
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28. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #10
 
   Re: Juri/Shiori. Well, I tend to be very fond of Shiori. However, I tend to agree with the authors that she and Juri shouldn't get together in THIS particular universe, though perhaps not for their reasons. ^^;;

Shiori suffers from horrible self-esteem and self-image, and tends to overcompensate wildly whenever she senses she's gaining any sort of hold over the one person she's compared herself to most of her life, Juri. If she ended up in the UF world, she'd quickly find herself among a group of people who would not tolerate anything remotely resembling that behavior, and would be very quick to tell her to either get with the program or go. This would be bad for Shiori in the extreme, IMO - even by the end of the show, I don't think she's ready to feel good about herself. Now Juri has LOTS of new friends with cool powers. Before Juri's only real friend was Miki, and even then they were still duellists. Shock to the system, and probably she'd simply vanish rather than deal with it.

So, I'm not looking for J/S in UF. I do think the authors are handling Juri wonderfully, BTW. ^_^

--SG


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jerteam
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123 posts
Sep-24-01, 09:15 PM (EST)
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34. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #28
 
   >So, I'm not looking for J/S in UF. I do think the authors are
>handling Juri wonderfully, BTW. ^_^

Is it slashfic if the two parties are both female? or does slashfic by
definition have to be male/male?

-jer

--
jer@gweep.net
Ceci n'est pas une .signature

--
jer@gweep.net http://www.gweep.net/~jer/
Ceci n'est pas une .signature


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Laudre
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Sep-24-01, 09:27 PM (EST)
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35. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #34
 
   >>So, I'm not looking for J/S in UF. I do think the authors are
>>handling Juri wonderfully, BTW. ^_^
>
>Is it slashfic if the two parties are both female? or does slashfic by
>definition have to be male/male?

Typically, slash is m/m; the original slash stories (Kirk/Spock, etc.) were all male/male couples. f/f slash is sometimes referred to as "alternative" slash, but it's still slash. Just that the vast majority of slash is written by heterosexual women, and they prefer to write about male/male couples. (Sort of like how yaoi seems to be much easier to find and more common than yuri.)

I've also heard the term used to describe any non-canonical romantic relationship, including m/f relationships, but I don't consider that proper usage of the term, and wouldn't do so myself. To me, slashfic is about a romantic relationship between two characters of the same gender, generally canon characters, even the relationship is canon or quasi-canon (see Xena/Gabrielle stories, for instance).

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


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Laudre
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Sep-23-01, 06:26 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-01 AT 06:28 PM (EDT)

Okay, random comments as I'm reading.

>student, as her shirt indicated. She had an English name. Carolyn,
>maybe? No - Kaitlyn.

"Kaitlyn" is a misspelling of an Irish Gaelic name (sort of; it ought to be Caitlyn, unless you're going full-on Gaelic). The English name would be Katherine, or a variant of it. ("Catherine" would be, to Janvier, French.)

> "Most excellent," said Janvier. "Shall I pour your wine
>before I go and give your order to Mama?"
> Juri said she would like that, thank you, but Kaitlyn went a
>little pink and replied, "Um, n-n-no, th-thank y-y-you... I, I'm
>n-n-not o-o-old en-n-nough. M-mayb-b-be Th-Th-Thursd-d-day... "

I don't know where you got your information, but last I knew the drinking age in France is 13, and even then, nobody really cares. It's at most a formality.

>Musicians, she explained, tended to be a somewhat quarrelsome lot when
>gathered together in groups,

Composers, maybe, but whenever I've been around a large number of fellow musicians we've mostly compared notes, techniques, preferences, and war stories. But bassists aren't really contentious anyway.

> In this vein, they sat across the table on the sidewalk by the
>rue de Rivoli for almost two hours and argued. They didn't fight -
>they -argued-, after the ancient Greek fashion, taking opposing
>viewpoints and defending them with wit and courtesy.

Am I the only one who finds this to be a difficult art to sustain? So few people seem to be able to debate aggressively without letting it get personal.

>sort of a gift, she would break his arm. Touga Kiryuu generally
>hadn't taken seriously threats of bodily harm from women, but from
>Juri, he believed.

I find this line inordinately amusing.

>system, hitting shops in no fewer than nine of the city's 20
>arrondissements).

Paris n'a que vingt arrondissements au siecle vingt-cinquieme?

>seemed to strike Parisians as enchantingly exotic rather than
>annoyingly provincial.

As far as I've ever been able to determine, there isn't an accent in the world that would strike a Parisian as anything other than a horrific mangling of the language. At best they concede that a foreigner cannot learn to speak French as elegantly as the language demands.

>perhaps from one of the 'colonies dans les etoiles'.

Colonies inside the stars? Aren't they kind of hot?

Unless my French is even rustier than I realize, it ought to be "colonies aux etoiles", ou peut-etre "colonies des etoiles".

>circles). Still others he had picked up just by whim, because he
>enjoyed languages and collected them like some people collected hats
>or coins - what other reason could anyone have for learning Esperanto?

I don't consider this a jab, because that's the reason I started learning Esperanto. Afterwards I discovered a body of literature in the language and a substantial community of speakers.

>had missed out French. It was very possibly the only Earth language
>he didn't know, but his ignorance of it was profound.

Okay, even assuming that we're down to a selection of national languages, that's still several hundred. I'm impressed. (India alone has something like 140 different languages and over 700 different dialects.)

Out of bizarre curiousity, did Mark Okrand invent a Klingon language for the Trek franchise in the UF universe, and, if so, is it anything like the language typically spoken by Klingons offworld? (Even in the Trek universe, there's a number of languages spoken on Kronos, but Klingonaase is the only one really heard offworld.)

>turtleneck sweater, the other a gray-skinned, white-haired, slim and
>coltish Nebari girl,

Why, I do believe that this is the first Farscape reference in UF.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19234 posts
Sep-23-01, 06:35 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #6
 
   >>student, as her shirt indicated. She had an English name. Carolyn,
>>maybe? No - Kaitlyn.
>
>"Kaitlyn" is a misspelling of an Irish Gaelic name (sort of; it ought
>to be Caitlyn, unless you're going full-on Gaelic).

Give Janvier a break, he's not a linguist - just a guy who runs a pub next door to Police Headquarters. :)

>> "Most excellent," said Janvier. "Shall I pour your wine
>>before I go and give your order to Mama?"
>> Juri said she would like that, thank you, but Kaitlyn went a
>>little pink and replied, "Um, n-n-no, th-thank y-y-you... I, I'm
>>n-n-not o-o-old en-n-nough. M-mayb-b-be Th-Th-Thursd-d-day... "
>
>I don't know where you got your information, but last I knew the
>drinking age in France is 13, and even then, nobody really cares.

Some cursory poking around on the Web came up with 16. It's a half-assed research method, but given that I was only looking for a baseline to extrapolate into the 25th century from anyway, I figured it was good enough. (Rather convenient, yes, but it saved me from feeling like I'd totally made it up. :)

>Composers, maybe, but whenever I've been around a large number of
>fellow musicians we've mostly compared notes, techniques, preferences,
>and war stories. But bassists aren't really contentious anyway.

A friend of mine who played bass in an industrial band once told me that bassist is the best job in all of rock music, because the lead guitarist and lead singer are expected to put on a show, the rhythm guitarist gets sucked into that, and the drummer has to do all sorts of actual work, but all the bassist has to do is stand in the back and look cool. :)

>> In this vein, they sat across the table on the sidewalk by the
>>rue de Rivoli for almost two hours and argued. They didn't fight -
>>they -argued-, after the ancient Greek fashion, taking opposing
>>viewpoints and defending them with wit and courtesy.
>
>Am I the only one who finds this to be a difficult art to sustain? So
>few people seem to be able to debate aggressively without letting it
>get personal.

It's a Paris thing, I guess. :)

>>system, hitting shops in no fewer than nine of the city's 20
>>arrondissements).
>
>Paris n'a que vingt arrondissements au siecle vingt-cinqueme?

What?

>>perhaps from one of the 'colonies dans les etoiles'.
>
>Colonies inside the stars? Aren't they kind of hot?

I was actually shooting for "in" in the sense of "among", but prepositional nuance is apparently one of the many, many things babelfish.altavista.com isn't good at. :)

>>had missed out French. It was very possibly the only Earth language
>>he didn't know, but his ignorance of it was profound.
>
>Okay, even assuming that we're down to a selection of national
>languages, that's still several hundred. I'm impressed. (India alone
>has something like 140 different languages and over 700 different
>dialects.)

By the Exile, G knows a lot of languages. He started learning them to pass the time during the dull bits when the WDF didn't have anything to do and Kei and Yuri were away on 3WA assignments. There were a lot of those in the Golden Age, and he picks up languages fast. (That's a lingering aftereffect of my old friend Joe Martin's original Detians 413 game system - to learn a new language, all a Detian had to do was find a decent reference for it and spend the XP for the skill point. That aspect of Detianism has sort of gotten deprecated as the UF version of the condition has evolved away from Joe's original model, but I'd had the Gryphon-as-hobbyist-linguist thing established in my head before that happened.)

>Out of bizarre curiousity, did Mark Okrand invent a Klingon language
>for the Trek franchise in the UF universe, and, if so, is it anything
>like the language typically spoken by Klingons offworld?

Dunno. Or care, really.

>>turtleneck sweater, the other a gray-skinned, white-haired, slim and
>>coltish Nebari girl,
>
>Why, I do believe that this is the first Farscape reference in UF.

I believe it is, yes.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Neophyte
Charter Member
111 posts
Sep-23-01, 09:35 PM (EST)
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11. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #8
 
   >>>system, hitting shops in no fewer than nine of the city's 20
>>>arrondissements).
>>
>>Paris n'a que vingt arrondissements au siecle vingt-cinqueme?
>
>What?

Translation:
Paris has only twenty arrondissements in the twenty-fifth century?


-------
Y. Michael Chang
Berkeley, CA


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Gryphonadmin
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19234 posts
Sep-23-01, 09:56 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #11
 
   LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-01 AT 09:58 PM (EDT)

>>>Paris n'a que vingt arrondissements au siecle vingt-cinqueme?
>>
>>What?
>
>Translation:
>Paris has only twenty arrondissements in the twenty-fifth century?

That's all that will fit inside the périphérique. :)

(Or, slightly more seriously - Earth has had two major world wars and an offworld occupation in the last 200 years. Several major cities are lucky they're even still there, which makes at least three times Paris has escaped burning by something suspiciously resembling a miracle... )

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Laudre
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Sep-23-01, 11:44 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #8
 
   >>>student, as her shirt indicated. She had an English name. Carolyn,
>>>maybe? No - Kaitlyn.
>>
>>"Kaitlyn" is a misspelling of an Irish Gaelic name (sort of; it ought
>>to be Caitlyn, unless you're going full-on Gaelic).
>
>Give Janvier a break, he's not a linguist - just a guy who runs a pub
>next door to Police Headquarters. :)

I'm nitpicking. Theses are the kinds of thoughts an amateur linguist has ^_^. "K" doesn't exist, really, in properly spelled Gaelic; it's only anglicization that turns "Ceiligh" into "Kelly" and things like that.

>Some cursory poking around on the Web came up with 16. It's a
>half-assed research method, but given that I was only looking for a
>baseline to extrapolate into the 25th century from anyway, I figured
>it was good enough. (Rather convenient, yes, but it saved me from
>feeling like I'd totally made it up. :)

Given that we're dealing 400 years in the future, anything's possible. Personally, given the kind of society you tend to portray in UF, I'm surprised that a drinking age exists. (Or, as a Dutchman I knew put it, "old enough to walk to the pub".)

>A friend of mine who played bass in an industrial band once told me
>that bassist is the best job in all of rock music, because the lead
>guitarist and lead singer are expected to put on a show, the rhythm
>guitarist gets sucked into that, and the drummer has to do all sorts
>of actual work, but all the bassist has to do is stand in the
>back and look cool. :)

I actually *do* work as a bassist. There's two kinds of bassists in rock music, basically: there's the ones who picked up bass because they couldn't get work as a rhythm guitarist (Duff McKagan, for instance); some of them are fairly good at that, but they're rarely anything special. Nothing wrong with that; it's about the same amount of skill as the typical rock lead guitarist ("Lead guitar? More like follow guitar..." -- a blues musician I played with a few times). Then there's bassists like the kind I try to be, for whom the bass is the principal instrument of expression, and who do the job of laying down a bassline but then go above and beyond that by adding considerably to the music; see Jeff Ament of Pearl Jam (probably the closest thing I have to a role model, musically) or Flea (whom I wish I could play like but I'm just not fast enough and probably never will be). That beautiful, melodic intro to "Jeremy" is played on a Hamer 12-string bass.

>>Paris n'a que vingt arrondissements au siecle vingt-cinqueme?
>
>What?

Paris only has twenty arrondissements in the twentieth century?

>>>perhaps from one of the 'colonies dans les etoiles'.
>>
>>Colonies inside the stars? Aren't they kind of hot?
>
>I was actually shooting for "in" in the sense of "among", but
>prepositional nuance is apparently one of the many, many things
>babelfish.altavista.com isn't good at. :)

*nods* I figured that. This is why I don't trust translation software, and occasionally amuse myself by writing complex, idiomatic compositions and running them through babelfish.altavista.com a couple of times (English -> Italian -> English, for instance) to see what comes out. Anyway, "dans" means "in" in the sense of "inside", not "among".

>By the Exile, G knows a lot of languages. He started learning
>them to pass the time during the dull bits when the WDF didn't have
>anything to do and Kei and Yuri were away on 3WA assignments. There
>were a lot of those in the Golden Age, and he picks up languages fast.

Well, a Detian mind has perfect recall, which helps one of my major stumbling blocks in learning a foreign language, vocabulary. Internalizing a word can sometimes be trying if I don't use it frequently.

>>Out of bizarre curiousity, did Mark Okrand invent a Klingon language
>>for the Trek franchise in the UF universe, and, if so, is it anything
>>like the language typically spoken by Klingons offworld?
>
>Dunno. Or care, really.

Wasn't really expecting an answer, but it's something that popped into my head while considering languages. It'd be a bit odd if he had and it did, but, then, it wouldn't be anything new for UF.

>>>turtleneck sweater, the other a gray-skinned, white-haired, slim and
>>>coltish Nebari girl,
>>
>>Why, I do believe that this is the first Farscape reference in UF.
>
>I believe it is, yes.

Well, here's to more. Farscape is the best genre (sf/f/horror) show on television right now (yes, I'll say it's better than Buffy or The X-Files -- hell, The X-Files peaked years ago, and I'll mostly be watching season nine out of inertia, and respect for a genre show that's lasted this long); while Enterprise looks promising, I'm not expecting it to be on the level of TNG or DS9. (All it really has to do is be better than Voyager, and I'll watch it; granted, that's not a huge challenge, but if Brannon Braga's involved, it could be tough.)

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19234 posts
Sep-24-01, 00:05 AM (EST)
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17. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #16
 
   >Given that we're dealing 400 years in the future, anything's possible.
> Personally, given the kind of society you tend to portray in UF, I'm
>surprised that a drinking age exists. (Or, as a Dutchman I knew put
>it, "old enough to walk to the pub".)

These things come and go in cycles. A generation thinks its predecessors were too strict with it when it was young, so it repeals a bunch of age-restriction laws. The next generation thinks it's in so much trouble now because its predecessors weren't firm enough, so it puts them back.

At present, Earth (and indeed much of human civilization in the galaxy) is in a fairly permissive phase - weapons laws are fairly relaxed in most places, as are drug and sex (legality of variations, age of consent) laws. There's a wide range between different nations - the Republic of Zeta Cygni is practically the Wild West when it comes to weapons control, for instance, while you won't find that level of permissiveness on, say, New Japan - but on the whole, things like that are easier to manage in the early 2400s than they are here in the real early 21st century.

>Then there's bassists like the kind I try to be, for whom the bass is
>the principal instrument of expression, and who do the job of laying
>down a bassline but then go above and beyond that by adding
>considerably to the music; see Jeff Ament of Pearl Jam (probably the
>closest thing I have to a role model, musically) or Flea (whom I wish
>I could play like but I'm just not fast enough and probably never will
>be). That beautiful, melodic intro to "Jeremy" is played on a Hamer
>12-string bass.

Unfortunately you've mentioned a couple of bands I don't have much use for, but I think I get what you mean all the same. Two unusual bassists I can think of offhand are Stuart Hamm (who plays bass for Joe Satriani when Joe's on tour, and has a solo career too) and Peter Hook (bassist for New Order, who flagrantly abuses his bass by playing as if he were a lead guitarist instead :).

>Paris only has twenty arrondissements in the twentieth century?

Covered elsewhere.

>Well, a Detian mind has perfect recall, which helps one of my major
>stumbling blocks in learning a foreign language, vocabulary.
>Internalizing a word can sometimes be trying if I don't use it
>frequently.

I'm not entirely sure this is true - our Detian friends seem to forget things entirely too often for it to be the case - but there does seem still to be a residual linguistic aptitude lurking in the condition for at least some of its recipients. (Kaitlyn has it too - at 16, she's fluent in four languages and has a smattering of three others.)

>Well, here's to more. Farscape is the best genre (sf/f/horror) show
>on television right now

I like it a lot, but don't watch it often - it has a similar problem to Babylon 5, in that it has an ongoing arc and the occasional major change happens, so if you miss chunks, you end up with that "what the fuck is going on?" syndrome. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Laudre
Charter Member
Sep-24-01, 00:42 AM (EST)
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21. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #17
 
   >Unfortunately you've mentioned a couple of bands I don't have much use
>for, but I think I get what you mean all the same. Two unusual
>bassists I can think of offhand are Stuart Hamm (who plays bass for
>Joe Satriani when Joe's on tour, and has a solo career too)

Yeah, Stu Hamm is another one. I'm equally impressed by his solo work as his work with Satch; given that I was trained as a funk bassist, rock bassist, and a jazz bassist (in that order), I tend to identify more with Flea and Jeff Ament than Stu Hamm or the late, great Jaco Pastorius (if you're not familiar with him, imagine Jimi Hendrix as an electric jazz bassist and you've got a pretty good start). There's also Billy Sheehan, but since I got over my hair band infatuation some time ago, I don't idolize him as much as I used to. (I'm a child of the "grunge" generation, not the 80's, although having two sisters who are over 30 means that I'm rather familiar with the music, enough that I could still sing "Living on a Prayer" with Jon Bon Blo... er, Jovi on that America thing the other night. And it was listening to and watching Flea play that made me want to pick up the bass in the first place.)

There's also Victor Wooten, bassist for Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, a bluegrass fusion band. I was in love with his style even before I saw them live; when Wooten started playing two basses at the same time I resolved to either woodshed or just give it up altogether. (I wound up woodshedding for three days, except for classes.)

> and Peter
>Hook (bassist for New Order, who flagrantly abuses his bass by playing
>as if he were a lead guitarist instead :).

The name rings a bell, but I can't say I've ever heard him play.

>I'm not entirely sure this is true - our Detian friends seem to forget
>things entirely too often for it to be the case - but there does seem
>still to be a residual linguistic aptitude lurking in the condition
>for at least some of its recipients. (Kaitlyn has it too - at 16,
>she's fluent in four languages and has a smattering of three others.)

It was mentioned that Detians have perfect recall; I imagine that it still sometimes takes something to trigger it, though. After all, that's a lot to remember, especially after 400+ years. Memory is a funny thing; I can often quote conversations verbatim, and remember a phone number after only dialing it once, yet it's easy for something to slip my mind, and my brain is very efficient of ridding itself of phone numbers and addresses once I no longer need to know them.

>I like it a lot, but don't watch it often - it has a similar problem
>to Babylon 5, in that it has an ongoing arc and the occasional
>major change happens, so if you miss chunks, you end up with that
>"what the fuck is going on?" syndrome. :)

For me, it's more like "So when did *this* happen" or "Who's that?" kind of responses. I can still sit down and watch an episode without being lost, and I read enough online to know where things are in the season, more or less. (Unfortunately, I've missed actually watching most of this season, so while I know most of the plot points, there's some details I'm missing.) And the ongoing arc is one of its strengths, because it's used as well as I gather it was in B5, allowing for character moments and single lines that are incredibly strong. You can see this even in early episodes, but it gets stronger as the show goes along.

And I would watch Farscape even discounting that, just because the show looks like nothing else, ever. It's a brilliantly original and fun series; even somewhat cliche story ideas often get turned on their head. (See the time travel episode from this season, which, in fact, was the last episode I saw.)

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19234 posts
Sep-24-01, 01:03 AM (EST)
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22. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #21
 
   >> and Peter
>>Hook (bassist for New Order, who flagrantly abuses his bass by playing
>>as if he were a lead guitarist instead :).
>
>The name rings a bell, but I can't say I've ever heard him play.

New Order was an 80s/early 90s tech-pop band which evolved out of the ruins of Joy Division after their lead singer killed himself - and at the risk of seeming direspectful to the dead, they were a lot more fun than Joy Division, not being bogged down by said lead singer's depressive personality. I say "were" because I don't think they've done anything much in a while - Truss would know better, he's a much bigger New Order fan than I am, though I'm fond of a good many of their songs.

If you listen to the radio, there's one connection that might be tickling your brain - Orgy, a current band that I guess I'd call somewhere between techno and industrial (and the band that did "Fiction (Dreams in Digital)", which was the Song of the Day here on the EPU forums once), did a cover of New Order's "Blue Monday" on their first album, Candyass. ("How does it feel / To treat me like you do / When you laid your hands upon me / And told me who you are?")

>It was mentioned that Detians have perfect recall; I imagine that it

Oh, I know it was mentioned; I'm just not sure it's true. Characters with perfect memory are a pain, because as a writer, I don't have it, so if I forget something, the character can't remember it, and then I'm up a stump. :)

>>I like it a lot, but don't watch it often - it has a similar problem
>>to Babylon 5, in that it has an ongoing arc and the occasional
>>major change happens, so if you miss chunks, you end up with that
>>"what the fuck is going on?" syndrome. :)
>
>For me, it's more like "So when did *this* happen" or "Who's that?"
>kind of responses. I can still sit down and watch an episode without
>being lost, and I read enough online to know where things are in the
>season, more or less.

My main problem is that it's hard to tell where in the sequence any given episode falls, so I'm always wondering, "OK, so is this before or after Important Development X?" Sometimes it's obvious and sometimes it's not.

>And I would watch Farscape even discounting that, just because the
>show looks like nothing else, ever. It's a brilliantly
>original and fun series; even somewhat cliche story ideas often get
>turned on their head. (See the time travel episode from this season,
>which, in fact, was the last episode I saw.)

Heh. My favorite episode of it that I've seen so far was one of those - it was the "Crichton wakes up in the hospital on Earth, with everyone saying, 'Whoa, lucky escape, dude - how's your head?' - only he doesn't buy it for an instant" episode. Had me laughing my ass off for a solid hour, and we got to see Chiana and Aeryn French kissing. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Laudre
Charter Member
Sep-24-01, 01:25 AM (EST)
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23. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #22
 
   >New Order was an 80s/early 90s tech-pop band which evolved out of the
>ruins of Joy Division after their lead singer killed himself - and at
>the risk of seeming direspectful to the dead, they were a lot more fun
>than Joy Division, not being bogged down by said lead singer's
>depressive personality. I say "were" because I don't think they've
>done anything much in a while - Truss would know better, he's a much
>bigger New Order fan than I am, though I'm fond of a good many of
>their songs.

Oh, okay. That's why I know the name; I'm familiar with Joy Division, having checked them out by way of The Crow. Joy Division didn't do a whole lot for me, so I never bothered checking out New Order. Maybe I will now.

>the EPU forums once), did a cover of New Order's "Blue Monday" on
>their first album, Candyass. ("How does it feel / To treat me
>like you do / When you laid your hands upon me / And told me who you
>are?")

I do remember that song. I rather liked it, but nothing else I've heard by Orgy has done much for me. I'm not into techno, as a rule; electronic instruments just don't sound as expressive and subtle to me as proper ones. When a techno song does really appeal to me, it's something special. (It took me awhile to really like most of the stuff on the Matrix soundtrack.)

>My main problem is that it's hard to tell where in the sequence any
>given episode falls, so I'm always wondering, "OK, so is this
>before or after Important Development X?" Sometimes
>it's obvious and sometimes it's not.

If it's important, it's generally obvious, from what I've seen.

>Heh. My favorite episode of it that I've seen so far was one of those
>- it was the "Crichton wakes up in the hospital on Earth, with
>everyone saying, 'Whoa, lucky escape, dude - how's your head?' - only
>he doesn't buy it for an instant" episode. Had me laughing my ass off
>for a solid hour, and we got to see Chiana and Aeryn French
>kissing. :)

Oh, I LOVED that episode. I'm dying for it to come out on DVD, but it's gonna be a little while before we get to Season 2. (Next DVD is past the halfway point of Season 1.) My favorite of the first season is "Back and Back and Back to the Future" -- the one where John keeps flashing forward and then back; the first time I watched it, I had no idea what was going on, and it takes quite a bit to do that. And even a bad episode by Farscape standards is still far better than, say, the average Voyager episode, or even some of NextGen's weaker moments.

John's dialogues with the Scorpius living in his head are also a lot of my favorite moments. Almost as much as the shippy moments between Aeryn and John. (Yes, I'm a romantic.) And I just love the way the show handles the tension between those two; resolve it in one way one episode, show that it is, in fact, moving forward... yet still remind us just how far they have to go.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
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trussteam
Member since Aug-9-13
Sep-24-01, 11:16 AM (EST)
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27. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #22
 
   >New Order was an 80s/early 90s tech-pop band which evolved out of the
>ruins of Joy Division after their lead singer killed himself - and at
>the risk of seeming direspectful to the dead, they were a lot more fun
>than Joy Division, not being bogged down by said lead singer's
>depressive personality. I say "were" because I don't think they've
>done anything much in a while - Truss would know better, he's a much
>bigger New Order fan than I am, though I'm fond of a good many of
>their songs.

They've just released a new album (it's out everywhere but in the U.S., where the release date is in October), and I'll probably buy it... but I don't hold out a lot of hope for it.

(It's a strange thing... I think their songs were much better before Bernard Sumner learned how to sing.)

"True Faith", which is on Substance (their 1987 singles compilation) and Best Of (similar idea, by way of their new record label), isn't just my NXE avatar's personal theme, it's mine. I love that song. :)

--truss.


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Matrix Dragon
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1726 posts
Sep-25-01, 05:26 AM (EST)
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38. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #22
 
   LAST EDITED ON Sep-25-01 AT 05:29 AM (EDT)

>Heh. My favorite episode of it that I've seen so far was one of those - it was
>the "Crichton wakes up in the hospital on Earth, with everyone saying, 'Whoa,
>lucky escape, dude - how's your head?' - only he doesn't buy it for an instant"
>episode. Had me laughing my ass off for a solid hour, and we got to see Chiana
>and Aeryn French kissing. :)

Damn it, this is getting annoying! It's made and produced in Australia, gets good ratings, yet we still get it later then the US, have it put on at crappy times and have episodes missing and/or edited. It ain't fair. That one alone would have shattered me for a while.

Matrix Dragon, who's only seen about five episodes with Chiana. Yes, it's that bad.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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Laudre
Charter Member
Sep-25-01, 05:36 AM (EST)
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39. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #38
 
   >Matrix Dragon, who's only seen about five episodes with Chiana. Yes,
>it's that bad.

That's a real shame. I like Chiana as a character, and Gigi Edgley is a doll.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


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Rod_H
Charter Member
Sep-24-01, 08:36 AM (EST)
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25. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #17
 
   >>Well, here's to more. Farscape is the best genre (sf/f/horror) show
>>on television right now
>
>I like it a lot, but don't watch it often - it has a similar problem
>to Babylon 5, in that it has an ongoing arc and the occasional
>major change happens, so if you miss chunks, you end up with that
>"what the fuck is going on?" syndrome. :)

Actually WTF syndrome increases when episodes of Farscape are broadcast in the wrong order, missing or when scenes are cut. Channel Nine (The other half of Farscape's production team) has done that recently with it's broadcast of season one-and-a-half??(They do it with trek. So, what do you expect.) and has triggered that phrases utterance. I suppose I'm gonna have to get it on video.

So, Nebari are now in UF, now we wait and see what other Farscape races show up.

I wonder what Washuu would do to a Leviathan, Moya-oki is what comes to mind for some reason.

--Rod.H


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trussteam
Member since Aug-9-13
Sep-24-01, 11:06 AM (EST)
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26. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #16
 
   >*nods* I figured that. This is why I don't trust translation
>software, and occasionally amuse myself by writing complex, idiomatic
>compositions and running them through babelfish.altavista.com a couple
>of times (English -> Italian -> English, for instance) to see what
>comes out. Anyway, "dans" means "in" in the sense of "inside", not
>"among".

That's as much my fault as Gryph's. My French (last practiced in high school, June 1989) is so rusty that the line you're quoting didn't register as a mistake.

--truss.


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BobSchroeck
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2192 posts
Sep-24-01, 01:09 PM (EST)
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30. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #16
 
   >>I was actually shooting for "in" in the sense of "among", but
>>prepositional nuance is apparently one of the many, many things
>>babelfish.altavista.com isn't good at. :)
>*nods* I figured that. This is why I don't trust translation
>software, and occasionally amuse myself by writing complex, idiomatic
>compositions and running them through babelfish.altavista.com a couple
>of times (English -> Italian -> English, for instance) to see what
>comes out.

For sheer amusement's sake along these lines, you might want to check out Lost in Translation (http://www.tashian.com/multibabel).

-- Bob
---------------
Please to remember
Eleven September --
Hijack, destruction and plot.
Our outraged reaction
To terrorist action
Should never be forgot.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Sep-23-01, 10:18 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #6
 
   >> In this vein, they sat across the table on the sidewalk by the
>>rue de Rivoli for almost two hours and argued. They didn't fight -
>>they -argued-, after the ancient Greek fashion, taking opposing
>>viewpoints and defending them with wit and courtesy.
>
>Am I the only one who finds this to be a difficult art to sustain? So
>few people seem to be able to debate aggressively without letting it
>get personal.

It's done all the time. Get a bunch of geeks together, and watch them hash something out. A software house where they can't do this is in deep kimshi. Of course, they do things slightly differently. They declare "holy wars" but make it clear that they are mock holy wars.

--rR

--rR


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Reverend Hammer
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Sep-24-01, 06:00 AM (EST)
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24. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #14
 
   >>> In this vein, they sat across the table on the sidewalk by the
>>>rue de Rivoli for almost two hours and argued. They didn't fight -
>>>they -argued-, after the ancient Greek fashion, taking opposing
>>>viewpoints and defending them with wit and courtesy.
>>
>>Am I the only one who finds this to be a difficult art to sustain? So
>>few people seem to be able to debate aggressively without letting it
>>get personal.
>
>It's done all the time. Get a bunch of geeks together, and watch them
>hash something out.

And I can agree with this one. My friends and I do this quite often. Then again, quite a few of my friends are geeks, also.

<ramble>
What is strange to watch is when my friend James and I get into a rather deep discussion about something, and after we've talked abous the subject at length it starts to deteriorate into something really, really silly. Not "stupid silly", but "funny silly". And I'm not even sure why this happens. And I sure hope we're not the only ones that this happens to.
</ramble>

Reverend Hammer
Who stopped playing UT for a while today just to read this story...


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Astynax
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717 posts
Sep-23-01, 10:18 PM (EST)
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15. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #6
 
   >
>Am I the only one who finds this to be a difficult art to sustain? So
>few people seem to be able to debate aggressively without letting it
>get personal.
>

Well, lessee... for one, it is inordinantly difficult to be completely detached about things that affect one personally. A few people, and they are rare, can manage it, but I dare say most <and I admit being included in the latter group> will lose their cool after some period of time <which differs from person to person>. Secondly, most everything is personal, in the sense that it effects some person or other at some point. For example, it is often refered to as 'just business' to lay someone off, fire someone, repossess some property, etc. But each of those acts effects some person or group of people, often in a very profound and negative manner. <Which is why I doubt I could ever own a business, unless that business were limited to me and contracters who never had indefinite employments with me. I just don't think I could handle the inevitable need to engage in one of the above activities> So, debating is not usually an art, because people aren't usually debating things that have so little personal significance as to be easily detached from.

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


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remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Sep-25-01, 08:55 AM (EST)
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42. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #6
 
   >Out of bizarre curiousity, did Mark Okrand invent a Klingon language
>for the Trek franchise in the UF universe, and, if so, is it anything
>like the language typically spoken by Klingons offworld? (Even in the
>Trek universe, there's a number of languages spoken on Kronos, but
>Klingonaase is the only one really heard offworld.)

<silly>

Actually, the Klingons used to speak a different language, one that sounded a lot like French. When they reached Earth, they heard Okrand's Klingonese, and generally reacted by saying "Now there's a warrior's language. Let's learn it and forsake this wussy stuff we learned from our forefathers."

</silly>

--rR

--rR


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Astynax
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717 posts
Sep-24-01, 00:18 AM (EST)
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18. "RE: latest Symphony"
In response to message #0
 
   You very nearly got me in trouble for laughing too loudly, between your description of Ragulin's<sp? bah, he doesn't deserve the effort;)> 'music' and the responses to it. Well done.

-={(Astynax)}=-
"The rest was as always excellent, but that demanded comment the most in my addled mind"


-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19234 posts
Sep-24-01, 00:22 AM (EST)
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19. "RE: latest Symphony"
In response to message #18
 
   >You very nearly got me in trouble for laughing too loudly, between
>your description of Ragulin's<sp? bah, he doesn't deserve the
>effort;)> 'music' and the responses to it. Well done.

I must confess that my favorite piece of imagery in that section is borrowed, or at least owes a heavy debt of inspiration, to an Internet document whose precise provenance I cannot now recall. I think it was a Sega Saturn FAQ. One of the questions was, "How can I rip the music from my games to MP3?", or some such. The answer was that it's usually pretty simple - most Saturn games' music was standard CD audio on the disc, playable in any CD player. However, the document warned, some old CD players aren't smart enough not to play the data track, which can cause damage to playback equipment and listeners' hearing.

"If you play the disc and you hear something that sounds like a jumbo jet playing the trombone," it said, "that's the data track."

The image has stuck in my head ever since, and I suddenly found myself in a situation where I could tip my cap to it, so I did. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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goldenfire
Charter Member
484 posts
Sep-24-01, 00:41 AM (EST)
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20. "RE: latest Symphony"
In response to message #19
 
   >"If you play the disc and you hear something that sounds like a jumbo
>jet playing the trombone," it said, "that's the data track."

goodness...that sounds like something Peter Schickele would use...

hmm...the closest that I know he used was the "Police Trombone", which was plenty odd enough...especially considering it was in the same piece as the "Pump Flute" and "Double-Reed Houka"...



==Jeremy
And who exactly is this diabolical 'they' to which we keep referring? If there's some grand conspiracy going on, the right hand doesn't appear to know what the left is doing. --Raziel (Soul Reaver II)


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dbrandon
Charter Member
174 posts
Sep-24-01, 12:47 PM (EST)
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29. "RE: latest Symphony"
In response to message #20
 
   >>"If you play the disc and you hear something that sounds like a jumbo
>>jet playing the trombone," it said, "that's the data track."
>
>goodness...that sounds like something Peter Schickele would use...
>
>hmm...the closest that I know he used was the "Police Trombone", which
>was plenty odd enough...especially considering it was in the same
>piece as the "Pump Flute" and "Double-Reed Houka"...

Slide Windbreaker. Amped.

Dan Brandon
-----
.Sig in training.


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Matrix Dragon
Charter Member
1726 posts
Sep-25-01, 05:39 AM (EST)
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40. "RE: latest Symphony"
In response to message #19
 
   >I must confess that my favorite piece of imagery in that section is borrowed,
>or at least owes a heavy debt of inspiration, to an Internet document whose
>precise provenance I cannot now recall. I think it was a Sega Saturn FAQ. One
>of the questions was, "How can I rip the music from my games to MP3?", or some
>such. The answer was that it's usually pretty simple - most Saturn games' music
>was standard CD audio on the disc, playable in any CD player. However, the
>document warned, some old CD players aren't smart enough not to play the data
>track, which can cause damage to playback equipment and listeners' hearing.
>"If you play the disc and you hear something that sounds like a jumbo jet >playing the trombone," it said, "that's the data track."

Checked and confirmed. Damn that's painful. I pity those that listened to it for half a hour.

Matrix Dragon

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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BobSchroeck
Charter Member
2192 posts
Sep-24-01, 01:14 PM (EST)
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31. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-01 AT 01:15 PM (EDT)

Nice. Low key, and very reminiscent of the time I spent in Paris, lo these 24 years ago. I arrived there on a gray and rainy Spring morning, as well, so I knew *exactly* what it looked like for them.

Most of what I'd thought to say has been covered by other folks already, but I just wanted to ask, where was Mr. Statler's usual companion? <grin>

-- Bob
---------------
Please to remember
Eleven September --
Hijack, destruction and plot.
Our outraged reaction
To terrorist action
Should never be forgot.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19234 posts
Sep-24-01, 03:01 PM (EST)
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32. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #31
 
   >Most of what I'd thought to say has been covered by other folks
>already, but I just wanted to ask, where was Mr. Statler's usual
>companion? <grin>

Refuses to travel. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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BobSchroeck
Charter Member
2192 posts
Sep-25-01, 08:14 AM (EST)
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41. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #32
 
   >>but I just wanted to ask, where was Mr. Statler's usual
>>companion? <grin>
>Refuses to travel. :)

So, what, he just never leaves that box seat? <grin>

-- Bob
---------------
Please to remember
Eleven September --
Hijack, destruction and plot.
Our outraged reaction
To terrorist action
Should never be forgot.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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Offsides
Charter Member
1220 posts
Sep-25-01, 10:20 AM (EST)
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43. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #31
 
  

"THIS is the future of Earth's music! Don't you understand?
Fifteen thousand years of human cultural evolution has all been
leading up to THIS!"
"Then may God save the people of the Earth, young man," a
gruff voice called anonymously from somewhere in the largest mass of
formally-dressed visitors. {...}
"Er... well," said Monsieur Chalfant uneasily from the
podium. "Yes. Well, for those of you whose tastes are somewhat
less... shall we say catholic... "
"Shall we say 'terrible'," said the waggish voice, drawing
another laugh.
"... Er... if you please, M. Statler," {...}

Bastard!

...

DOUBLE BASTARD!!!!!

I didn't actually shatter on this one, but only because I spent at least a minute repeating the above... :)

Offsides

#include <janitors.h> - yes, there is a story to this, but you'll have to ask me about it privately - it's a long one... :)

#91;...#93; in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #pi;
#include <stdsig.h>


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BobSchroeck
Charter Member
2192 posts
Sep-25-01, 12:48 PM (EST)
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44. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #43
 
  
 
> "Er... well," said Monsieur Chalfant uneasily from the
>podium.

Hmm. That reminds me. Is "Chalfant" a tip o' the hat to Elizabeth Peters, Gryph? "Chalfont Castle" and all that...

-- Bob
---------------
Please to remember
Eleven September --
Hijack, destruction and plot.
Our outraged reaction
To terrorist action
Should never be forgot.

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
19234 posts
Sep-25-01, 02:20 PM (EST)
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45. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #44
 
   >
 
>> "Er... well," said Monsieur Chalfant uneasily from the
>>podium.
>

>
>Hmm. That reminds me. Is "Chalfant" a tip o' the hat to Elizabeth
>Peters, Gryph? "Chalfont Castle" and all that...

I don't think so. I just made it up.

If it had been an intended reference, I would hope that I'd have spelled it right. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Star Ranger4
Charter Member
2206 posts
Sep-25-01, 00:10 AM (EST)
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36. "RE: Sure, I'll make the first comment..."
In response to message #0
 
   Once again, most of what I wanted to say has been said... to wit:

1) I was sort of surprised that Kate and Juri didnt, but on the other hand, it also felt right.

2) Same for the Rag-head comments

Some new ones:

I loved the way Juri recieved her weapon; Being outside the 4th wall and knowing what is really going on made more than one of M. Cherbounaux's comments nearly fataly humerous.

I also loved Gryph's attempt at the "Dad" speach. For someone who's been around more than 400 years, its nice to see him still in touch with his humanity. I have a feeling he's going to be using it a lot in the future... Somehow Zoner trying to have the same sort of talk (Successfully) with his kids just feels... Wrong.

I guess that's because I somehow see Chaos-Zoner as sort of a toned down version of Mask-Zoner.

___________________

Vaughn doesn't know I exist. I guess this explains why the rest of reality keeps ignoring me as well. >_<


Of COURSE you wernt expecting it!
No One expects the FANNISH INQUISITION!
RCW# 86


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