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Subject: "Hmmm....."     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Conferences Neon Exodus Evangelion Topic #125
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NeoRavenK7
Member since 2-11-03
167 posts
04-18-03, 04:21 AM (EST)
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"Hmmm....."
 
   A few days ago I got bored and went looking through the old posts in this forum and came accross a "near" flame war started by some personage who, thankfully, does not post here anymore. After reading that (well, not all of it, but enough of it), I felt like putting in my own two cents in a polite manner.

Due to the fact that I recently upgraded my OS from Win98SE > Win2K Pro I've been able to see some anime I've had on my comp that I've bee itching to watch. Among these was the ENTIRE run of NGE, including Death and Rebirth and End of Evangelion.

Now, after reading NXE and seeing NGE, here's how I feel.

Both have their points, but I feel that NXE is a much better story because it is lacking that "Okay, lets forget about the story and fuck with their minds" attitude. Also, NXE has more characters that are more colorful. Plus, NXE also brings out characters that are merely in the background in NGE, thus making it seem like a more involving storyline.

Also, for you people who've not seen NGE yet, a few veiwing tips. I'll do my best not to spoil the storyline for anyone.

1)The storyline is just fine and dandy up until the last two episodes of the series. Then it becomes a screaming psycho-anylisis(sp) of the major characters, Shinji in particular. Recomended only if you want to know the characters in and out.

2)See End of Evangelion and not Death and Rebirth. End of Evangelion is a more of a true conclusion of the series and Death and Rebirth is simply a rehashing of the last two episodes.

Polite commentary and retorts welcome.

One other thing... Incase no one here's heard of it (or the author) Ken Arromdee has a nice Evangelion/Tenchi crossover fic that I think is worth looking at. I feel it's about as good as NXE. You guys can find it at http://www.rahul.net/arromdee/fanfic.html

-NeoRaven


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Hmmm..... Kendra Kirai 04-19-03 1
     RE: Hmmm..... Logan_D_alt 04-19-03 2
         RE: Hmmm..... NeoRavenK7 04-19-03 3
  RE: Hmmm..... Astynax 04-21-03 4
     RE: Hmmm..... D West 04-21-03 9
         RE: Hmmm..... NeoRavenK7 04-22-03 12
         RE: Hmmm..... BobSchroeck 04-23-03 14
  RE: Hmmm..... Gatekeeper 04-21-03 5
     RE: Hmmm..... Astynax 04-21-03 6
         RE: Hmmm..... Logan_D_alt 04-21-03 7
             RE: Hmmm..... Astynax 04-22-03 10
                 RE: Hmmm..... Kendra Kirai 04-25-03 15
                     RE: Hmmm..... ClassicDrogn 04-25-03 16
                     RE: Hmmm..... Astynax 04-30-03 17
         RE: Hmmm..... Gatekeeper 04-21-03 8
             RE: Hmmm..... Astynax 04-22-03 11
         RE: Hmmm..... NeoRavenK7 04-22-03 13
  RE: Hmmm..... OtakuKeith 01-10-04 18

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Kendra Kirai
Member since 9-3-02
93 posts
04-19-03, 04:19 PM (EST)
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1. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #0
 
   >1)The storyline is just fine and dandy up until the last two episodes
>of the series. Then it becomes a screaming psycho-anylisis(sp) of the
>major characters, Shinji in particular. Recomended only if you want
>to know the characters in and out.

Including the sticky bits of the lower intestine, and the spleen.

And I'm not really being metaphorical either.


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Logan_D_alt
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04-19-03, 07:37 PM (EST)
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2. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #1
 
   >>1)The storyline is just fine and dandy up until the last two episodes
>>of the series. Then it becomes a screaming psycho-anylisis(sp) of the
>>major characters, Shinji in particular. Recomended only if you want
>>to know the characters in and out.
>
>Including the sticky bits of the lower intestine, and the spleen.
>
>And I'm not really being metaphorical either.

That kinda reminds me of how I came up with a quick description of -End of Evangelion- to a friend of mine who was curious about it.

"Think of it like this. Remember how much of a mind trip the ending of 2001: A Space Oddysey was? Okay, now imagine 2001: A Space Oddysey, but instead of Stanley Kubrick directing, you have David Cronenburg. THAT'S how f__ked up End of Evangelion is, okay?"

-Logan

Legolas - Obviously an Elvish word meaning "gatling gun".


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NeoRavenK7
Member since 2-11-03
167 posts
04-19-03, 11:20 PM (EST)
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3. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #2
 
   Oi, no kidding! It's no freakin wonder that so many people write fics about it just to make it seem more sane.

-NeoRaven


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Astynax
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598 posts
04-21-03, 08:44 AM (EST)
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4. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #0
 
   >Now, after reading NXE and seeing NGE, here's how I feel.

<snippage>

>1)The storyline is just fine and dandy up until the last two episodes
>of the series. Then it becomes a screaming psycho-anylisis(sp) of the
>major characters, Shinji in particular. Recomended only if you want
>to know the characters in and out.
>

Shinji must be smacked, kicked, and otherwise harmed. I kinda feel for the guy, but every time I do he -whines- something terrible.

>2)See End of Evangelion and not Death and Rebirth. End of Evangelion
>is a more of a true conclusion of the series and Death and Rebirth is
>simply a rehashing of the last two episodes.
>

Haven't seen D&R, and have been told by highly rabid NGE fans not to <One of these same rabid fans is the one responsible for exposing me to the second half of NGE -and- End of Eva in one night. I still haven't decided if I ought to thank her or scream.>

>Polite commentary and retorts welcome.
>

I found that while I prefer the overall tone of NXE, NGE was not nearly as horrendous as I had expected it to be. <I also suspect I was semi-calloused as to the mental damage NGE can inflict, having recently been shown a semi-unknown movie called Donnie Darko that makes the ending bits of NGE seem light and fluffy... well, almost>I'll probably have to re-watch a good chunk to fully parse it all though.


-={(Astynax)}=-
"Still thank Anno went crazy and took NGE with him,
but it was an entertaining ride"


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D West
Member since 11-1-02
48 posts
04-21-03, 10:51 PM (EST)
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9. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #4
 
   >"Still thank Anno went crazy and took NGE with him,
>but it was an entertaining ride"

Here's an interesting exercise:
1) Watch NGE

2) Watch FLCL

3) If you're not in a mental hospital by now, please tell me what kind of drugs the Gainax crew are on

"so, how does your brain work after being soaked in a vat of LSD, Mr. Anno?"


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NeoRavenK7
Member since 2-11-03
167 posts
04-22-03, 08:51 PM (EST)
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12. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #9
 
   Done that in reverse. Still have the photos from the hospital. ~_^
Next!

-NeoRaven


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BobSchroeck
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1295 posts
04-23-03, 06:05 PM (EST)
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14. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #9
 
   >Here's an interesting exercise:
>1) Watch NGE
>2) Watch FLCL
>3) If you're not in a mental hospital by now, please tell me what kind
>of drugs the Gainax crew are on

May I add a step?

2.5) Watch the "Kodomo no Evangelion" shorts.

-- Bob
-------------------
Was the Order to Slay given because of the Sign of the Goat found on the ancient Roman crypt beneath the cathedral, or because the Dark Man of the Haute Vienne Coven spoke the Three Words?


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Gatekeeper
Member since 3-22-03
51 posts
04-21-03, 04:18 PM (EST)
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5. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #0
 
   Might I also suggest that the entire series not be watched at one sitting. One should never listen to his friends when they say that NGE rocks and should have a marathon showing. (I figured the series was short, maybe a tape or two at the most, and then they come back with 13 tapes.) Everyone I've talked to who has seen it agrees that the last two episodes were bad (If you disagree then more power to you.) Now imagine seeing them at 4:00 in the morning.

I should have monkey-stomped my friends for that...

____________
I'm Dudditz!


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Astynax
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598 posts
04-21-03, 04:55 PM (EST)
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6. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #5
 
  
>you.) Now imagine seeing them at 4:00 in the morning.
>

The last two eps were -cheap- <described by a friend as "The $5 episodes. Not $5 each, $5 for -both-".> Not that they would have made that much sense anyway, but cut them some minor slack, they were bankrupt at the time.

Oh, and I can do you one better, try watching the last two eps at... 7am after an all nighter, followed immediately by End...


-={(Astynax)}=-
"I had a mentally traumatic weekend...
Still haven't decided if I ought to be thankful or sue..."


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Logan_D_alt
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154 posts
04-21-03, 07:04 PM (EST)
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7. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #6
 
   >Oh, and I can do you one better, try watching the last two eps at...
>7am after an all nighter, followed immediately by End...

And how long did it take you to reconstitute your brain from that puddle of LCL anyway? O_o


-Logan

I would enter your sleep if I could, and guard you there, and slay the thing that hounds you as I would if it had the courage to face me in fair daylight. But I cannot come in unless you dream of me. --Prince Lir, The Last Unicorn


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Astynax
Charter Member
598 posts
04-22-03, 08:32 AM (EST)
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10. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #7
 
   >>Oh, and I can do you one better, try watching the last two eps at...
>>7am after an all nighter, followed immediately by End...
>
>And how long did it take you to reconstitute your brain from that
>puddle of LCL anyway? O_o
>

Frighteningly enough, I think I groked most of it... not that I could explain it in a million years, but aside from a few "hey, wait, what'd I just miss" side questions to my guide into the madness, it actually made some odd sort of sense...


-={(Astynax)}=-
"Hey, wait, why are you all backing away from me now?"


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Kendra Kirai
Member since 9-3-02
93 posts
04-25-03, 01:53 AM (EST)
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15. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #10
 
   >>>Oh, and I can do you one better, try watching the last two eps at...
>>>7am after an all nighter, followed immediately by End...
>>
>>And how long did it take you to reconstitute your brain from that
>>puddle of LCL anyway? O_o
>>
>
>Frighteningly enough, I think I groked most of it... not that I could
>explain it in a million years, but aside from a few "hey, wait, what'd
>I just miss" side questions to my guide into the madness, it actually
>made some odd sort of sense...

If I'm not prying, were you drunk, stoned, or otherwise in a state of altered conciousness?

NGE is similar to Akira in that people who get drunk or stoned on a regular basis seem to understand it. Or at least think they do.

That said, at least NGE has something approximating a beginning and an ending....something FLCL completely lacks (Apparently by design. I hear the manga starts end ends nearly exactly how the OAVs did...that's rather annoying when one's mind is relatively linear and likes beginnings and endings. :)


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ClassicDrogn
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212 posts
04-25-03, 02:37 PM (EST)
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16. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #15
 
   >NGE is similar to Akira in that people who get drunk or stoned on a
>regular basis seem to understand it. Or at least think they do.
>
>That said, at least NGE has something approximating a beginning and an
>ending....something FLCL completely lacks (Apparently by design. I
>hear the manga starts end ends nearly exactly how the OAVs
>did...that's rather annoying when one's mind is relatively linear and
>likes beginnings and endings. :)

Okay... now this begins to scare me. I'm not even going into NGE again, because we've heard that rant before, but neither Akira nor FLCL seemed particularly confusing, save in the pace that they introduced new elements. Further, Akira just didn't engage my interest, psis and existential angst bore me as a general rule. I never, ever, smoke so much as a normal cigarette, nor drink anything stronger than that carbonated apple juice sold nowadays so people like me can join in the toasts normally done with champaigne, but my rationale for this is that I'm already messed up in the head enough not to need it. Thing is, that's supposed to be a joke...

Oh well.

Spoiler warning.

As to the ending of FLCL, what's so cyclic about it? One of the main characters has gone back to wherever she came from, another that was there leaves, and everyone else grows up some. Yes, the opening and closing narration is similar, but in the beginning Naota is complaining that nothing exciting has ever happened to him, and in the end he's lamenting that nothing this exciting is ever likely to happen to him again, with an unspoken side order of feeling down because the first two girls he started developing feelings for both left to do their own thing. It's a bit of a downbeat after the rest of the series, but a reasonable one. Besides, I like to think that Naota caught hSpace Hottie Syndrome from his contact with aliens, and now is almost certain to bbe within sight of the landing point of any cute aliens, so despite his worries he'll have plenty of 'fun' adventures from now on.

- CD, who wouldn't mind catching that himself, at least inbetween the bits where he was terrified and running/fighting for his life. Remember the definition of 'adventure...'


.
A militant agnostic is someone who says, "I don't know anything about God, and dammit, NEITHER DO YOU!


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Astynax
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598 posts
04-30-03, 01:52 PM (EST)
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17. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #15
 
  
>If I'm not prying, were you drunk, stoned, or otherwise in a state of
>altered conciousness?
>

Aside from partial sleep deprivation (ie up past the 16 standard hours of wakefulness), nope. I'm just not quite right in the head.


-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


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Gatekeeper
Member since 3-22-03
51 posts
04-21-03, 10:32 PM (EST)
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8. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #6
 
   >but cut them some minor slack, they were
>bankrupt at the time.

I'm not condemning the creators to hell for the last two episodes. I think I could have swallowed them better if I hadn't been so early in the morning. Maybe :)

>Oh, and I can do you one better, try watching the last two eps at...
>7am after an all nighter, followed immediately by End...

You're a braver soul than I. The last time I tried to pull an all nighter was at a con and I fell asleep in the movie room.
____________
I'm Dudditz!


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Astynax
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04-22-03, 08:55 AM (EST)
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11. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #8
 
   LAST EDITED ON 04-22-03 AT 09:02 AM (EDT)
 
>>Oh, and I can do you one better, try watching the last two eps at...
>>7am after an all nighter, followed immediately by End...
>
>You're a braver soul than I. The last time I tried to pull an all
>nighter was at a con and I fell asleep in the movie room.

I'm actually getting used to them. 'Tis the sort of thing that happens when you fall in love with a girl who suffers from raging insomnia... you tend not to get much sleep on weekends (or lots of weekdays for that matter). The trick is to take a day every week and set it aside for crashing hard.


-={(Astynax)}=-
"...and this is now waaaay offtopic. Been fun though."


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NeoRavenK7
Member since 2-11-03
167 posts
04-22-03, 08:53 PM (EST)
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13. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #6
 
   Been there, done that. I'm surprised I stayed coherient.

-NeoRaven


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OtakuKeith
Member since 1-10-04
5 posts
01-10-04, 07:31 PM (EST)
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18. "RE: Hmmm....."
In response to message #0
 
   I'm probably going to be shot for resurrecting an old thread, but eh well.

It's important to remember that NGE is a 26-episode anime series and NXE is a written quartet of book-length pieces, and hence comparing the two directly is tricky. There's far, far more room for multiple plotlines and subtle little bits of character development in a piece of writing compared to a movie, TV series or even manga. This is why, from a storytelling point of view, I much prefer the written word. I'd *love* to see NGE the definitive novel; that's sort of what many of the good fanfics aspire to be.

That said, I might go so far as to say that watching NGE changed my life, for all its flaws and frustrations.

"Dude! God said I don't displease Him!"
"I heard! That's great!"
"That's TERRIBLE! I'll have to sin harder."


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