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Subject: "Oh, WELL done, Auntie!" Archived thread - Read only
 
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MoonEyes
Member since Jun-29-03
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Mar-25-15, 09:08 PM (EDT)
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"Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
 
   So, Auntie Beeb decided that they won't extend Jezza's contract when it expires at the end of the month(and when that is, considering it's the 25th...). This means that Top Gear, which is their biggest earner, is pretty much dead. Both Captain Slow and the Hamster has said before that they're not doing it without Jezza, and Andy Wilman, the executive producer, being a close friend of Clarkson's since school(they were pretty much the ones that MADE TG, in 2002), most likely won't continue either.

So, BBC just killed their cash cow, AND put themselves into MASSIVE debt since they now cannot deliver things they've already sold to various other countries. Not to mention having created a rather notable storm among fans of the show.

Now, have Jezza been less than graceful over the past couple years? Yes, at points. Did he, perhaps, over-react in this case? Most likely. But, on the other hand, the supposed assault is...rather overblown, and the things that people have been all het up about are, in many(though not all) cases, the sort of things that PC grannies get all up in their knitting about, rather than things that are actually something to be upset about, and in some cases are even things you'd have to deliberately go LOOK for.

In short, Auntie Beeb are morons of spectacular proportions, for several different reasons.

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! Gryphonadmin Mar-25-15 1
     RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! drakensis Mar-26-15 2
         RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! ratinoxteam Mar-26-15 3
             RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! Croaker Mar-26-15 4
                 RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! ratinoxteam Mar-26-15 5
                     RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! Gryphonadmin Mar-26-15 6
     RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! MoonEyes Mar-28-15 13
         RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! Gryphonadmin Mar-28-15 14
             RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! BeardedFerret Mar-29-15 15
             RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! MoonEyes Mar-29-15 16
                 RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! Verbena Mar-29-15 17
                     RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! ratinoxteam Mar-29-15 20
                         RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! rwpikul Mar-30-15 22
                 RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! Gryphonadmin Mar-29-15 18
                     RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! JFerio Mar-29-15 19
                 RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! Matrix Dragon Mar-30-15 21
  RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! CdrMike Mar-26-15 7
     RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! Gryphonadmin Mar-26-15 8
         RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! CdrMike Mar-26-15 9
             RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! Gryphonadmin Mar-26-15 10
                 RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! CdrMike Mar-27-15 11
                     RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! JFerio Mar-27-15 12
                 RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! Phantom Apr-03-15 26
  RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! CdrMike Mar-31-15 23
  RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! MoonEyes Apr-02-15 24
     RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! cyberpagan Apr-20-15 28
  RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! CdrMike Apr-02-15 25
     RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie! MoonEyes Apr-03-15 27

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Gryphonadmin
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Mar-25-15, 09:20 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #0
 
   >>the supposed assault is...rather overblown

Reports I'm seeing agree that Tymon had a busted lip. What exactly is your threshold for assault if not a blood injury? For Christ's sake. I'm a long-time fan of the show, and Clarkson himself, too - apart from Top Gear, I've enjoyed all of his solo car videos, and he's made some of my favorite TV documentaries, mainly to do with WWII - but, as one of the people (officially or just effectively) in charge of the show, he punched someone who worked for him. Never mind the stupid kerfuffle in Argentina, never mind the time he and Hammond insulted everyone in Mexico, etc., etc., he punched someone who worked for him. Sorry, that's game over. You don't get to do that. That's not boisterous, edgy behavior for purposes of entertainingly comedic exaggeration, that's not being a larger-than-life persona, it's workplace violence.

The BBC is being insufferably self-righteous in the way they've handled the affair, I agree, particularly in light of its long and less-than-honorable history of hushing up unacceptable star behavior. I mentioned that in, uh, the other thread about this. But the fact that they're being repellently ostentatious about doing the right thing doesn't change the fact that they're doing the right thing.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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drakensis
Member since Dec-20-06
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Mar-26-15, 04:06 AM (EDT)
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2. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #1
 
   Ultimately if the BBC, having previously given a final warning, didn't follow through, they presumably feel they wouldn't be able to effectively control their people in the future if they didn't follow through.

I don't think there was a 'good' outcome for everyone here.

There have been cases of shows continuing after a change of presenters before, but its hard to see Top Gear being as successful as the previous heights. They lose little by trying.

And who knows what cocking about Clarkson, Hammond and May will get up to with wherever they wind up working.

D.


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ratinoxteam
Member since Jun-6-05
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Mar-26-15, 10:54 AM (EDT)
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3. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #2
 
   >I don't think there was a 'good' outcome for everyone here.

Sacking Clarkson (or letting his contract expire and not renewing, same thing) means killing the cash cow. Keeping him on leaves BBC open to all sorts of liability when others, seeing how Clarkson got away with it, try to get away with it themselves. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

To be honest, I think that the BBC made the right decision. Battery is unacceptable. Period. I agree with G over the Beeb's self-righteous handling of the affair but that does not excuse Clarkson's behavior.

--
Rat
That and five bucks will get you a small coffee at Starbucks


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Croaker
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Mar-26-15, 12:55 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #3
 
   If I were in the BBC's accounting department at this point I'd be looking hard at the possibility of suing Jezza.

His misbehavior, and the BBC's totally justified response thereunto, has cost them, as said by the OP, millions if not more.

His behavior. Not theirs.

They are totally justified, legally, in attempting to recover some of their losses from him.

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


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ratinoxteam
Member since Jun-6-05
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Mar-26-15, 01:55 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #4
 
   >His misbehavior, and the BBC's totally justified response thereunto,
>has cost them, as said by the OP, millions if not more.

Technically, this isn't the case. Clarkson's behavior cost the BBC relatively little. It is the BBC's decision not to renew Clarkson's contract that will cost the corporation a pile of money. Certainly, Clarkson's behavior is the reason for the BBC's decision but that behavior is a step removed from the resulting financial losses.

You wouldn't be looking at suing Clarkson. You'd be weighing the cost of suing him in a case you'd probably lose vs. the cost of trying to salvage what you still have.

Caveats: I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a British lawyer, and I'm not privy to the terms of Clarkson's contract.

--
Rat
That and five bucks will get you a small coffee at Starbucks


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Gryphonadmin
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Mar-26-15, 02:02 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #5
 
   >and I'm not privy to the terms of Clarkson's contract.

They're letting it expire without trying to renew it rather than canceling it for cause, so presumably whatever the terms are, BBC Legal doesn't figure they could make "breach of" stick.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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MoonEyes
Member since Jun-29-03
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Mar-28-15, 08:58 PM (EDT)
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13. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #1
 
   >>>the supposed assault is...rather overblown
>
>What exactly is your threshold for assault if not a blood injury? For Christ's sake.

I'll repeat that, what Clarkson did is wrong, and it is not acceptable. On the other hand, getting socked in the mouth and getting a busted lip...I've managed to do that to myself when the book I was reading in bed slipped out of my grip. That isn't assault, come on.

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!


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Gryphonadmin
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Mar-28-15, 09:30 PM (EDT)
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14. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #13
 
   >On the other hand, getting socked in the mouth and getting
>a busted lip...I've managed to do that to myself when the book I was
>reading in bed slipped out of my grip. That isn't assault, come on.

It isn't when you do it to yourself. It is when someone else does it for you. (In fact, technically, I believe it's assault when someone else attempts to do it for you; if they succeed it's also battery.) "Come on" indeed.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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BeardedFerret
Member since Apr-21-08
514 posts
Mar-29-15, 04:58 AM (EDT)
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15. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #14
 
   >>On the other hand, getting socked in the mouth and getting
>>a busted lip...I've managed to do that to myself when the book I was
>>reading in bed slipped out of my grip. That isn't assault, come on.
>
>It isn't when you do it to yourself. It is when someone else does it
>for you. (In fact, technically, I believe it's assault when someone
>else attempts to do it for you; if they succeed it's also
>battery.) "Come on" indeed.
>
>--G.
>-><-
>Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
>Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
>zgryphon at that email service Google has
>Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.

Exactly right, and indeed it looks like the matter has now been referred to the police.

The dumbest thing about this is that the while incident apparently came about because the three presenters spent threeish hours at the pub before returning to their hotel so late that the kitchen had been closed. Clarkson literally brought the whole thing on himself.


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MoonEyes
Member since Jun-29-03
1125 posts
Mar-29-15, 12:16 PM (EDT)
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16. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #14
 
   >>On the other hand, getting socked in the mouth and getting
>>a busted lip...I've managed to do that to myself when the book I was
>>reading in bed slipped out of my grip. That isn't assault, come on.
>
>It isn't when you do it to yourself.

The point I'm trying to make is that busting a lip is rather easy. By striking just a fraction off at another angle, it would have been nothing, or maybe a FAT lip rather than a busted one. I'm not in any way condoning what Clarkson did, and as noted, since he was the first to report it as well as having tried to reach Mr. Tymon by phone, text message, mail and in person, to apologize, I'd say he doesn't, himself, much the opposite. But a busted lip is, in my opinion, a bit low to be called assault. There seem to be something of a general sensation, from the Beeb and the news, of wanting to stomp on Clarkson BECAUSE he is a celebrity, and because of the supposed, in at least some cases, previous infractions. "Oh, he thinks that just because he's a CELEBRITY, he can do that? Let's stomp him EXTRA hard!"

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!


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Verbena
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Mar-29-15, 12:24 PM (EDT)
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17. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #16
 
   The actual injury inflicted isn't relevant to the criminal charges here, if I understand my law correctly. Taking the swing is assault; actually connecting is battery, no matter how little or much damage is done. There's -more- charges that can be added depending on the damage inflicted (examples include maiming and murder, though they obviously don't apply here) but I don't think battery depends on how badly they're hurt.

--------

this world created by the
hands of the gods
everything is false
everything is a LIE
the final days have come
now
let everything be destroyed

--mu


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ratinoxteam
Member since Jun-6-05
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Mar-29-15, 06:33 PM (EDT)
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20. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #17
 
   Assault is creating the fear of physical attack. Taking the swing is attempted battery. Connecting is battery. These usually are misdemeanors. Circumstances may lead to the prosecuting asking the court to elevate charges to aggravated assault or aggravated battery which are felonies. This is US law I'm on about here and even this is sketchy since the legal definitions of assault, battery, attempted and aggravated vary from state to state.

--
Rat
That and five bucks will get you a small coffee at Starbucks


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rwpikul
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Mar-30-15, 02:06 PM (EDT)
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22. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #20
 
   I checked and it looks like the UK has things along the lines you state, with both assault and battery being summary offences that can also be included in an indictment or have aggravating conditions that make them indictable in and of themselves.

(While not an exact match, a summary offence is about what the US would call a misdemeanour.)

--
Chakat Firepaw - Inventor & Scientist (Mad)


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Gryphonadmin
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Mar-29-15, 01:45 PM (EDT)
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18. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #16
 
   >But a busted lip is, in my opinion, a bit
>low to be called assault.

Well, the thing is, it's not really a matter in which opinion - yours or anyone else's - enters into it. It's like looking at a boat that is floating and saying, "In my opinion, that isn't floating." It's still floating.

Now, I will grant that basic A&B is not exactly axe murder. If the North Yorkshire police decide to prosecute, even though Tymon isn't interested in pressing charges of his own, I would take that as fairly clear evidence that they're being bastards for bastardy's sake.

>There seem to be something of a general
>sensation, from the Beeb and the news, of wanting to stomp on Clarkson
>BECAUSE he is a celebrity, and because of the supposed, in at least
>some cases, previous infractions.

I don't dispute that he's being made an example of. If you're going to get roaring drunk and abuse a member of your hit TV show's production staff, it's an extra-bad plan to do it exactly when the organization you work for is under intense scrutiny for letting its big-name personalities get away with stuff in the past. However, I believe we are all agreed that it wasn't a good plan in the first place.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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JFerio
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Mar-29-15, 04:11 PM (EDT)
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19. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #18
 
   >>But a busted lip is, in my opinion, a bit
>>low to be called assault.
>
>Well, the thing is, it's not really a matter in which opinion - yours
>or anyone else's - enters into it. It's like looking at a boat that
>is floating and saying, "In my opinion, that isn't floating." It's
>still floating.

Assault is assault, regardless if it leaves a mere bruise, or requires 15 hours of surgery to retain full use of the body part damaged in the process.

>>There seem to be something of a general
>>sensation, from the Beeb and the news, of wanting to stomp on Clarkson
>>BECAUSE he is a celebrity, and because of the supposed, in at least
>>some cases, previous infractions.
>
>I don't dispute that he's being made an example of. If you're
>going to get roaring drunk and abuse a member of your hit TV
>show's production staff, it's an extra-bad plan to do it exactly when
>the organization you work for is under intense scrutiny for letting
>its big-name personalities get away with stuff in the past. However,
>I believe we are all agreed that it wasn't a good plan in the first
>place.

Even sober, it's a bad plan. Being drunk, that's merely an explanation, not an excuse. First I heard of the idea of him being drunk, though, I just thought he lost his temper.

Regarding the scrutiny, yeah, the BBC does seem to be under a lot of pressure to clean up house, particularly with the Jimmy Savile controversy a couple of years back (effectively ignored massively mounting evidence he was using his shows and charities to satiate a problematic sexual appetite). Some of the previous noises made about Clarkson were probably along the lines of "don't let him - or anyone else - get away with being a nob on your dime," especially in the past 2-3 years.





Jeffrey 'JFerio' Crouch
'It'll be all right... I think.' - Nene Romanova



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Matrix Dragon
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Mar-30-15, 03:33 AM (EDT)
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21. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #16
 
   >The point I'm trying to make is that busting a lip is rather easy. By
>striking just a fraction off at another angle, it would have been
>nothing, or maybe a FAT lip rather than a busted one. I'm not in any
>way condoning what Clarkson did, and as noted, since he was the first
>to report it as well as having tried to reach Mr. Tymon by phone, text
>message, mail and in person, to apologize, I'd say he doesn't,
>himself, much the opposite. But a busted lip is, in my opinion, a bit
>low to be called assault. There seem to be something of a general
>sensation, from the Beeb and the news, of wanting to stomp on Clarkson
>BECAUSE he is a celebrity, and because of the supposed, in at least
>some cases, previous infractions. "Oh, he thinks that just because
>he's a CELEBRITY, he can do that? Let's stomp him EXTRA hard!"

If I punched a coworker, I'd be fired before the day was out. If you punched a coworker, you'd likely be fired before the day was out. Either way, we'd potentially be looking at criminal charges. And I suspect neither of us are on our last warning for bad behaviour, as Clarkson was. He's not being 'stomped on extra hard' because he was a celebrity. He was warned to behave, he failed to, and now he's had to face the consequences.

I love the guy, spent the weekend watching several seasons of Top Gear. But he's a bloody idiot, and it's his own damn fault.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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CdrMike
Member since Feb-20-05
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Mar-26-15, 05:16 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #0
 
   I have to agree with the sentiment that there really was no good outcome. When I heard the initial reports from witnesses that Jezza had chewed the poor fellow out for 20 minutes before a minor scuffle, I figured it wasn't anything worth more than a mea culpa and yet another round of "Don't do that again or you're out" from the head office. But when I heard a punch had been thrown and blood was drawn, that was it, there's no way that the Beeb can overlook that. Sacking him was the only real choice, because otherwise it would have been open season on staff who have displeased high value stars.

That said, yeah, the show's pretty much over. All three had their contracts up for renewal and, with Clarkson gone, I don't imagine May and Hamster will be far behind. Rumor's been going around that the Beeb is trying to woo Chris Evans to take Clarkson's seat, but the chemistry just wouldn't be there. Perhaps Sky will pick up the Three Amigos and create a new series, or some outfit like Netflix will offer them a lucrative contract. But any that do take the show will likely make it clear that they're not going to put up with Clarkson's antics anymore than the Beeb did, that the first time he's caught roughing up the help, he'll be sacked from there as well.

And here I was, honestly thinking it couldn't get any worse after the whole mess in Argentina. At least Jezza's had the good sense this time not to make it worse by shooting off his mouth to the press...again.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

"You know, the world could always use more heroes." - Tracer, Overwatch


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Gryphonadmin
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Mar-26-15, 05:56 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #7
 
   >Rumor's been going around that the
>Beeb is trying to woo Chris Evans to take Clarkson's seat, but the
>chemistry just wouldn't be there.

Neither would Evans himself, or so he's been saying. Then again, people say a lot of things.

>And here I was, honestly thinking it couldn't get any worse after the
>whole mess in Argentina.

The Argentina thing baffles me a little. I mean, of all the things to be a flashpoint, the one that's most documentably an actual coincidence...

>At least Jezza's had the good sense this
>time not to make it worse by shooting off his mouth to the
>press...again.

... Except he hasn't.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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CdrMike
Member since Feb-20-05
889 posts
Mar-26-15, 06:59 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #8
 
   >Neither would Evans himself, or so he's been saying. Then again,
>people say a lot of things.

Indeed, could just be holding out for the right price. You never know about these things. Perhaps the series will go to fallow for a year before Jezza is quietly let back in.

>The Argentina thing baffles me a little. I mean, of all the things to
>be a flashpoint, the one that's most documentably an actual
>coincidence...

I don't believe it was done intentionally, but the boys have gone pretty far to get a rise out of people before. See also: The lengths they've gone to at times to keep saying "pikey" after the Beeb told them to put a stop to that due to complaints.

>>At least Jezza's had the good sense this
>>time not to make it worse by shooting off his mouth to the
>>press...again.
>
>... Except he >hasn't.>

If I may am quote Captain Slow here: "What a pillock."

--------------------------
CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

"You know, the world could always use more heroes." - Tracer, Overwatch


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Gryphonadmin
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Mar-26-15, 09:58 PM (EDT)
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10. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #9
 
   >If I may am quote Captain Slow here: "What a pillock."

In a lot of his remarks (including various newspaper columns), he's seemed more resigned than defiant; his comments about the time of the dinosaurs ending and the uselessness of protest, for instance, are quite fatalistic. For all that "tired and emotional" is a well-worn joke in British public criticism circles at this point, I mean, clearly something's changed, the man hasn't made a habit of punching his co-workers for the last 30 years. The only other person he's ever been reported to have punched before that I know of was Piers Morgan (punching whom should frankly be worth a substantial raise, not the loss of a job), which is a pretty short list for someone with such a well-cultivated reputation for being obstreperous.

Also, I will give him credit for a) reporting the incident to the bosses himself and b) asking that people leave the poor guy he socked alone. The latter is, admittedly, as pointless as he's repeatedly said protesting is, but as a gesture, it's rather rehumanizing.

I'm trying to walk a fairly fine line here, which is tricky in this age of extremes - condemning his actions without turning on the man himself, and drawing a distinction between unacceptable and unforgivable.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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CdrMike
Member since Feb-20-05
889 posts
Mar-27-15, 09:07 AM (EDT)
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11. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #10
 
   >In a lot of his remarks (including various newspaper columns), he's
>seemed more resigned than defiant; his comments about the time of the
>dinosaurs ending and the uselessness of protest, for instance, are
>quite fatalistic. For all that "tired and emotional" is a well-worn
>joke in British public criticism circles at this point, I mean,
>clearly something's changed, the man hasn't made a habit of
>punching his co-workers for the last 30 years. The only other person
>he's ever been reported to have punched before that I know of was
>Piers Morgan (punching whom should frankly be worth a substantial
>raise, not the loss of a job), which is a pretty short list for
>someone with such a well-cultivated reputation for being obstreperous.

Yeah, I noticed in reading his remarks that what we might be witnessing is a bit of burn-out. The series has been running pretty continuously since 2002 and, while the lads do have time between series, it's not as though they're just there for the filming. They're also doing live shows in addition to the filmed series, which is even more traveling and prep work. I think he might have just reached a point where he needs to sit down, have a cup of tea, and truly relax without worrying that there's a deadline attached to it.

>Also, I will give him credit for a) reporting the incident to the
>bosses himself and b) asking that people leave the poor guy he socked
>alone. The latter is, admittedly, as pointless as he's repeatedly
>said protesting is, but as a gesture, it's rather rehumanizing.

When I'd read that he reported the incident himself, rather than waiting for the whole thing to come down on his head, it was before I'd heard he'd actually punched the poor fellow. At that time, I sort of hoped the whole thing was just a minor scuffle and the Beeb could (again) put him on notice but let the show go on. Since then, I've reevaluated my stance, but still do think it's a point in his favor that he's shown such humility.

>I'm trying to walk a fairly fine line here, which is tricky in this
>age of extremes - condemning his actions without turning on the man
>himself, and drawing a distinction between unacceptable and
>unforgivable.

I think anyone who's been a Top Gear fan for any length of time knows that he's had run-ins with the Beeb before and that he's an insufferable oaf even at the best of times. But that's who he is, it's what makes the series work, and there's no real changing it. At the same time, this incident simply can't be downplayed, it's unacceptable behavior, and he had to be punished. That said, I can't lie and say I don't hope that this does just blow over in the future and the show returns to its old format, with the Top Gear orangutan back aboard.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

"You know, the world could always use more heroes." - Tracer, Overwatch


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JFerio
Charter Member
194 posts
Mar-27-15, 09:38 AM (EDT)
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12. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #11
 
   >>In a lot of his remarks (including various newspaper columns), he's
>>seemed more resigned than defiant; his comments about the time of the
>>dinosaurs ending and the uselessness of protest, for instance, are
>>quite fatalistic. For all that "tired and emotional" is a well-worn
>>joke in British public criticism circles at this point, I mean,
>>clearly something's changed, the man hasn't made a habit of
>>punching his co-workers for the last 30 years. The only other person
>>he's ever been reported to have punched before that I know of was
>>Piers Morgan (punching whom should frankly be worth a substantial
>>raise, not the loss of a job), which is a pretty short list for
>>someone with such a well-cultivated reputation for being obstreperous.
>
>Yeah, I noticed in reading his remarks that what we might be
>witnessing is a bit of burn-out. The series has been running pretty
>continuously since 2002 and, while the lads do have time between
>series, it's not as though they're just there for the filming.
>They're also doing live shows in addition to the filmed series, which
>is even more traveling and prep work. I think he might have just
>reached a point where he needs to sit down, have a cup of tea, and
>truly relax without worrying that there's a deadline attached to it.

That is probably the minimum explanation. I haven't pursued information beyond the brief mention (specifically because it's not my business what his personal life is like right now), but apparently there are some rumors of marital and health problems. Which would contribute.

But I have been reading from his reactions that mostly he's just... tired.

>>Also, I will give him credit for a) reporting the incident to the
>>bosses himself and b) asking that people leave the poor guy he socked
>>alone. The latter is, admittedly, as pointless as he's repeatedly
>>said protesting is, but as a gesture, it's rather rehumanizing.
>
>When I'd read that he reported the incident himself, rather than
>waiting for the whole thing to come down on his head, it was before
>I'd heard he'd actually punched the poor fellow. At that time, I sort
>of hoped the whole thing was just a minor scuffle and the Beeb could
>(again) put him on notice but let the show go on. Since then, I've
>reevaluated my stance, but still do think it's a point in his favor
>that he's shown such humility.

There is that point. If nothing else, owning up to it (even when the guy he socked hadn't reported it yet), and then trying to tell fans to leave the guy alone, yeah, that's at least some effort at being a proper gentleman about it.

>>I'm trying to walk a fairly fine line here, which is tricky in this
>>age of extremes - condemning his actions without turning on the man
>>himself, and drawing a distinction between unacceptable and
>>unforgivable.

That is tough. Do I enjoy him as an entertainer? Immensely. Do I recognize that his brand of entertainment comes with some problematic baggage, and that he probably needs to be reined in more than he has been in the past? Absolutely.

>I think anyone who's been a Top Gear fan for any length of time
>knows that he's had run-ins with the Beeb before and that he's an
>insufferable oaf even at the best of times. But that's who he is,
>it's what makes the series work, and there's no real changing it. At
>the same time, this incident simply can't be downplayed, it's
>unacceptable behavior, and he had to be punished. That said, I can't
>lie and say I don't hope that this does just blow over in the future
>and the show returns to its old format, with the Top Gear
>orangutan back aboard.

It would be nice, but to a certain extent, that would require the BBC to be willing to give him the show back, and to be willing to do so before it dies in the attempted reformat.





Jeffrey 'JFerio' Crouch
'It'll be all right... I think.' - Nene Romanova



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Phantom
Charter Member
160 posts
Apr-03-15, 09:48 AM (EDT)
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26. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #10
 
   >I'm trying to walk a fairly fine line here, which is tricky in this
>age of extremes - condemning his actions without turning on the man
>himself, and drawing a distinction between unacceptable and
>unforgivable.
>
>--G.

Well said! I agree with your statements throughout this entire thread.
The man crossed a line and these are the consequences.
Is it sad that it came to this yes.

Phantom


"When you have eliminated the
impossible, whatever remains,
however improbable, must be the
truth." - Sherlock Holmes


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CdrMike
Member since Feb-20-05
889 posts
Mar-31-15, 11:57 PM (EDT)
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23. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #0
 
   So it's been about a week since the word got out about Jezza being sacked and things don't look much clearer since then. Depending on who you ask, the Beeb has either pulled the plug on the rest of the series or is looking to air it. I think it's safe to say the former is more likely, which will leave the question of whether Jeremy will be changing his name to Jennifer unanswered.

They're still insisting they want to renew the show for another year, but who will be hosting it is still very much up in the air. Chris Evans claims, in between denials that he'll take the job, that Slow and Hamster are "rethinking" their position on the show not going on without Jezza, but of course the Beeb is staying mum about the matter while reports are that they're still in negotiations. And Andy Wilman says he's sticking with the show, in response to an email to staff that got leaked that was characterized as a resignation notice.

The Beeb has announced is that the live shows already scheduled will continue...if only because the alternative was refunding roughly £10million in tickets to angry fans. But in a bit of passive aggressiveness, the shows will only be the lads themselves, as the BBC has stripped everything from the shows that they claim is theirs, including the Stig (answering an earlier question about who owns the character).

As for Clarkson himself, there's only really rumors at the moment. According to the Daily Mirror, Sky and ITV have said they won't hire him and he won't work for Channel 5. There is a rumor about Netflix offering him carte blanche to create his own series there, but I'd say that's more wishful thinking until either he or the company say something.

So as of right now, the future of his career and the show itself seem to be up in the air. While I still agree with the necessity of the sacking, I do secretly hope that this is something that will blow over as past incidents did and Jezza comes back some day. Only question is, will there still be a show left to come back to?

--------------------------
CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

"You know, the world could always use more heroes." - Tracer, Overwatch


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MoonEyes
Member since Jun-29-03
1125 posts
Apr-02-15, 04:09 PM (EDT)
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24. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #0
 
   While he IS a bit, shall we say, despondent...he does manage some music.
James May's Unemployment Tube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChmUOMglqX0PTMTrohBZ5Qw

(which also suggests that, at least in the case of Captain Slow, Evans is talking nonsense)


...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!


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cyberpagan
Charter Member
188 posts
Apr-20-15, 09:48 PM (EDT)
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28. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #24
 
   And now the Hamster has a youtube channel as well:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC24PHSDf2ZsNiRJW4oDTmog

Called Richard Hammond is Bored :)


******************************
I'm really here, but I'm not here, really.
******************************


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CdrMike
Member since Feb-20-05
889 posts
Apr-02-15, 10:24 PM (EDT)
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25. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #0
 
   And now all three of the boys have had their faces removed from the Top Gear website. It might be an April Fool's joke that hasn't been undone, it might be they're changing the photo until they find a replacement for Jezza, or it could be a sign that Evans is talking out of his backside and Slow and Hamster have informed the Beeb they won't be renewing their contracts.

I really do wonder if Auntie Beeb expected things to get this bad.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

"You know, the world could always use more heroes." - Tracer, Overwatch


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MoonEyes
Member since Jun-29-03
1125 posts
Apr-03-15, 04:01 PM (EDT)
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27. "RE: Oh, WELL done, Auntie!"
In response to message #25
 
   Interestingly enough, by sort of following links, you can go from the above article, to 'clarkmammaylive', an instagram feed which seems to have been 'Top Gear Live'. And from there, you can, indeed, go to topgearlive.co.uk...which, apperently, is a virus site, according to my Kaspersky anti-virus...
Talk about the Beeb being pissed off, but seriously?!

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!


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