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Subject: "SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-22-15, 07:09 PM (EDT)
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"SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
 
   Why is it called The Force Awakens? Was it asleep in the original films? It didn't seem to be. Prrretty much front and center.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Matrix Dragon Dec-22-15 1
  RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage pjmoyermoderator Dec-22-15 2
  RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Matrix Dragon Dec-22-15 3
     RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Gryphonadmin Dec-22-15 4
     RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Berk Dec-30-15 49
  RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Bushido Dec-23-15 5
     RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage pjmoyermoderator Dec-23-15 6
         RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage StClair Dec-24-15 13
  Thoughts on Kylo Ren Mephronmoderator Dec-23-15 7
     RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren pjmoyermoderator Dec-23-15 8
         RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren ebony14 Dec-24-15 12
             RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Gryphonadmin Dec-24-15 15
                 RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren BZArchermoderator Dec-24-15 16
                     RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Gryphonadmin Dec-24-15 17
                 RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Bad Moon Dec-25-15 18
                     RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Gryphonadmin Dec-25-15 19
                         RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Bad Moon Dec-25-15 20
                             RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Gryphonadmin Dec-25-15 21
                                 RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Bad Moon Dec-26-15 31
                 RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Gryphonadmin Dec-25-15 22
                     RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Sofaspud Dec-26-15 25
                         RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Gryphonadmin Dec-26-15 26
                         RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Bad Moon Dec-26-15 27
                             RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Gryphonadmin Dec-26-15 28
                                 RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren ejheckathorn Dec-26-15 29
                                 RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Bad Moon Dec-26-15 30
                                     RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren ejheckathorn Dec-26-15 32
                                     RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Gryphonadmin Dec-26-15 33
                                         RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Bad Moon Dec-26-15 34
                                 RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Matrix Dragon Dec-26-15 35
                                     RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Gryphonadmin Dec-27-15 36
                                         RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Malkarris Dec-29-15 44
                                 RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Offsides Jan-01-16 51
     RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Gryphonadmin Dec-23-15 9
         RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren Mephronmoderator Dec-24-15 10
             RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren BZArchermoderator Dec-24-15 14
     RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren drakensis Dec-24-15 11
  RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Gryphonadmin Dec-26-15 23
     RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Matrix Dragon Dec-26-15 24
         RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage junipermoderator Dec-27-15 37
     RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Chris Redfield Dec-28-15 38
  RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Chris Redfield Dec-28-15 39
     RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Gryphonadmin Dec-28-15 40
         RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Chris Redfield Dec-29-15 43
  RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Nathan Dec-28-15 41
     RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Verbena Dec-29-15 42
  RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Mister Fnord Dec-29-15 45
     RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage junipermoderator Dec-30-15 46
         RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Mister Fnord Dec-30-15 47
     RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage TheOtherSean Dec-30-15 48
     RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Gryphonadmin Jan-01-16 50
         RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Peter Eng Jan-01-16 52
             RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage junipermoderator Jan-01-16 53
                 RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage Peter Eng Jan-02-16 54

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Matrix Dragon
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Dec-22-15, 07:24 PM (EDT)
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1. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #0
 
   "I'm up, I'm up! What'd I miss?"

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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pjmoyermoderator
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Dec-22-15, 08:55 PM (EDT)
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2. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #0
 
   >Why is it called The Force Awakens? Was it asleep in the
>original films? It didn't seem to be. Prrretty much front and
>center.

It awakens in Rey, one of the main protagonists of the film. Luke's last attempt to restore the Jedi Order kinda got hit with a strong case of death. By this point, the power of the Force is rapidly becoming more mythical to the common galactic citizen (where it was already pretty "out there" during the era of the Clone Wars).

--- Philip






Philip J. Moyer
Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios
"Insert Pithy Comment Here"
Fandoms -- Fanart -- Fan Meta Discussions


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Matrix Dragon
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Dec-22-15, 11:26 PM (EDT)
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3. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #0
 
   Can I just take a moment to note that, whatever else you want to say about the boy, Kylo Ren is durable as hell. I mean, he more or less walked off a direct hit from Chewies bowcaster, after the movie had gone to great length to show us what happened to the Stormtroopers it hit... and the Stormtroopers standing near said Stormtrooper. It shoots grenades wrapped in lasers. He should have been trying to use the Force to keep his intestines inside, not running around in the snow trying to torture Finn.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-22-15, 11:52 PM (EDT)
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4. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #3
 
   >Can I just take a moment to note that, whatever else you want to say
>about the boy, Kylo Ren is durable as hell.

"He's amazing, this boy, he doesn't know when he's beaten! He doesn't know when he's winning either! He has no sort of sensory apparatus known to man!"

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Berk
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Dec-30-15, 08:05 PM (EDT)
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49. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #3
 
   I would laugh if they threw him in lava and he swam.

- Berk Watkins
Student of Quantum Bogodynamics


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Bushido
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Dec-23-15, 02:41 PM (EDT)
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5. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #0
 
   Just to nitpick a little bit, no matter how well suited to the role he was, Adam Driver's Kylo Ren certainly doesn't look like the child of Han and Leia. If anything he looks like Leia had a fling with Severus Snape.

--------
Wedge Defense Force General
Order 12: "Try to avoid
freaking the mundanes."


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pjmoyermoderator
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Dec-23-15, 03:06 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #5
 
   Flip side, Rey's looks clearly take after Luke and Padme'... the more I read about it, the more the likelyhood of her being a Skywalker seems certain.






Philip J. Moyer
Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios
"Insert Pithy Comment Here"
Fandoms -- Fanart -- Fan Meta Discussions


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StClair
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Dec-24-15, 10:58 AM (EDT)
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13. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #6
 
   This, so very much.


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Mephronmoderator
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Dec-23-15, 03:10 PM (EDT)
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7. "Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-15 AT 03:10 PM (EST)
 
Kylo suffers from what Gryph called, when talking about Anakin, trying to fit into a square hole when he's a round peg.

The difference is that it's not George trying to get him into that hole, it's Kylo himself. He's written as feeling the call of the Light Side, and trying actively to not be pulled in by it. He's sitting there, going "I will get in here!" and wondering why he's scraping so badly. What he does to his father is just trying to drive himself in farther.

....and what's his father's last act before dying? Touching his son's face in a way that says, "You are my son and I love you." That can't do anything but leave a mark in him - even at last his father believed there was good in him.


Now, his other big issue is that he lacks one thing - and that's something we've touched on with our stories here at EPU - and that's control. Look at when something frustrates him, his first act was to draw his lightsaber and beat on something and scream in frustration. He lacks self-control, which is very much a Dark Side thing when you're Doing It Wrong. (And everyone around him knows he's got that loose cannon thing going on - the guy who has to tell him they lost the droid when the freighter took off, the two stormtroopers who just nope right out when they get near the detention room...)

And don't tell me Han didn't know what he was doing there. He knew. He knew what he was looking at, he knew what was going to happen, and he walked right up to it and accepted it. There was a price to pay, and Han Solo paid it. The question will be, did he buy what he thought he was buying?

Which leads to the question: is Kylo redeemable?

--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"


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pjmoyermoderator
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Dec-23-15, 03:29 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #7
 
   >Which leads to the question: is Kylo redeemable?

Well, that's the 64,000 credit question, isn't it? After all, looking at the track record of Darth Vader, pretty much everybody involved except Luke (once he knew who Vader was) felt he was a lost cause and had to be put down for the good of the galaxy. And even then, I don't think Luke had any illusions that redeeming his father would magically wipe away all the atrocities committed from the end of the Clone Wars to the end of the Empire - but it would hopefully be enough to grant Anakin some peace at the end. Heck, Vader said straight out "It's too late for me" to Luke's face before the final duel. Sometimes you've just gotta aim for the little victories.

And, well, we've got two more movies to see if Kylo really does end up emulating Darth Vader in all the ways that matter, including his redemption in death... and if he manages some dark side mastery in the process (having cut all believed ties and gaining focus through the pain) it'll be even more riskier for our heroes in the meantime.

--- Philip






Philip J. Moyer
Contributing Writer, Editor and Artist (and Moderator) -- Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
CEO of MTS, High Poobah Of Artwork, and High Priest Of the Church Of Aerianne -- Magnetic Terrapin Studios
"Insert Pithy Comment Here"
Fandoms -- Fanart -- Fan Meta Discussions


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ebony14
Member since Jul-11-11
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Dec-24-15, 10:07 AM (EDT)
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12. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #8
 
   >And, well, we've got two more movies to see if Kylo really does
>end up emulating Darth Vader in all the ways that matter, including
>his redemption in death... and if he manages some dark side mastery in
>the process (having cut all believed ties and gaining focus through
>the pain) it'll be even more riskier for our heroes in the meantime.
>

I see Kylo Ren (or Ben Solo, if you prefer) as having more of a chance of redemption. He's young, he's clearly conflicted, and he's clearly got a thing for Rey. That look he gave Rey just after he took his helmet off really made me think his internal monologue was something like: "Ohmygodohmygodit'sagirl! WhatdoIdowhatdoIsayWHEREDOIPUTMYHANDS?!!! Wait... wait... I'm Kylo Ren. I can do this. I gotta be cool. Gotta say something witty; gotta be all dark and mysterious. Girls love that stuff!" (Of course, he's taking life advice from what looks like a hologram of Gollum's badly burned grandfather and hanging out with Bill Weasley the Space Nazi, so it's no wonder he made a hash of it.) Darth Vader was an old man, resolved to the fact that he was beyond redemption long before Luke showed up (he did think his children were dead after all). Skywalker's rejection of Palpatine gave him just enough hope to protect his son from the Emperor in the end. Ren is just on the first part of his descent, and his family is still actively trying to bring him back. I think we may see a redeemed villain earlier than the final scenes of the third movie.

Ebony the Black Dragon

"Life is like an anole. Sometimes it's green. Sometimes it's brown. But it's always a small Caribbean lizard."


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-24-15, 06:26 PM (EDT)
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15. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #12
 
   >I see Kylo Ren (or Ben Solo, if you prefer) as having more of a chance
>of redemption.

I have to admit, the more bits and pieces about the film I hear, the more my instinctive reaction to that proposition is, "Nah. Fuck that guy."

>(Of course, he's
>taking life advice from what looks like a hologram of Gollum's badly
>burned grandfather and hanging out with Bill Weasley the Space Nazi,
>so it's no wonder he made a hash of it.)

Speaking of "it's no wonder he made a hash of it," I realized something the other day that made certain things about the whole Star Wars canon suddenly make a bunch of sense.

So, Darth RevanKylo Ren there, the Big Shock Reveal is that he's Han and Leia's son, am I parsing that right? If so, it fits neatly into my thesis, which is basically that the Skywalker men are all congenital incompetents. Anakin couldn't even get being the Chosen One right, and how hard can that be; the original trilogy is sort of one long sequence of Luke screwing things up, making really bad decisions, and getting away with it often through no direct fault of his own. Padmé was pretty clever apart from her fatally catastrophic taste in men, and Leia seems to have inherited the better parts of that package, but it would be perfectly in keeping with the Skywalker clade's tradition for her son, if she has one, to be simultaneously a powerful Force-sensitive and a complete bungling goon who can't even do Doing It Wrong right.

But beyond that, the real revelation that came to me is what that must mean. It skips the women in the family; it's just the Skywalker men who are hopeless clods. That must mean it traces back to a common paternal ancestor. Except that, if Anakin's mother is to be considered a reliable informant, they don't have a paternal ancestor.

Except that they do, because assuming Shmi isn't bullshitting us, Anakin's father is the Force.

Which means the Force is incompetent.

Suddenly the arc of the Jedi Order in the entire prequel trilogy—snap!— makes sense. :)

>Darth Vader was an old man,

The funny thing here is that everyone thinks that? But if you do the math he totally wasn't. How old was Anakin supposed to be in Attack of the Clones? 18? 19? How long were the Clone Wars? No more than three or four years, I should think. Similarly, Luke is 18 or 19 in A New Hope and the Battle of Endor is maybe four years later. So when he dies in Return of the Jedi, Darth Vader is in his mid-forties, 50 at the outside.

I probably would have thought that was ancient when I was 20, admittedly, but now that I'm 42½ it doesn't seem so very old. :)

(Similarly, Obi-Wan's 18ish in Phantom Menace, meaning he somehow manages to age from his mid-thirties to his late seventies in 18 years between Revenge and New Hope. I guess it's hard out there in the Jundland Wastes. Maybe the Japanese captured him and made him build a bridge at some point in the intervening years; that'll age a man.)

>resolved to the fact that he was beyond redemption long before Luke
>showed up (he did think his children were dead after all).

I don't think he believed he had more than one until that last duel scene in Jedi, but that's a fair assumption otherwise. Y'know, come to think about it, I don't remember there ever being a scene in the original trilogy where Vader learns that he has a living son. He obviously doesn't know who the Rebel fighter pilot in whom the Force is strong actually is during the Death Star fight in the first movie, and in Empire he and the Emperor chat about "the son of Skywalker" in a way that shows it's clearly not the first time they've discussed the matter, but I don't remember any scene wherein Luke's identity is actually shown coming to Vader's attention. That's interesting. (Presumably Imperial Intelligence determined who the Rebel pilot was who blew up the Death Star sometime between the first two movies.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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BZArchermoderator
Member since Nov-9-05
1783 posts
Dec-24-15, 07:45 PM (EDT)
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16. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #15
 
   As it happens? The new "Canon" Darth Vader comic by Kieron Gillen answered that:

https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/5365434.html#cutid1

(FWIW: I think it's quite good. Picking up the trade is recommended.)

---------------------------
Jaymie "BZArcher" Wagner
She/They
@BZArcher / bzarcher at gmail
"Life is change. Let’s live.”


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-24-15, 07:58 PM (EDT)
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17. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #16
 
   >As it happens? The new "Canon" Darth Vader comic by Kieron Gillen
>answered that:

Well, there you go, then.

On the one hand, mild eyeroll because of course it's Boba Fett; on the other hand, I admire his insouciance there. Drop the intel, pivot, jeté back to Coolsville, as Dennis Miller once put it. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Bad Moon
Member since Dec-17-02
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Dec-25-15, 00:03 AM (EDT)
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18. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #15
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-15 AT 00:04 AM (EST)
 
I thought Anakin was a product of Darth Plagius, Palpatine's master, fucking around with the Force doing life experiments and getting some Tatooine women knocked up inadvertently?

------
Oh God, it was me. I was the grognard all along.


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-25-15, 00:47 AM (EDT)
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19. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #18
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-15 AT 00:49 AM (EST)
 
>I thought Anakin was a product of Darth Plagius, Palpatine's master,
>fucking around with the Force doing life experiments and getting some
>Tatooine women knocked up inadvertently?

What wackass side project produced that little nugget? That's an even sillier attempt at an explanation than the one that was in the movie.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Bad Moon
Member since Dec-17-02
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Dec-25-15, 01:01 AM (EDT)
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20. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #19
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-15 AT 01:07 AM (EST)
 
>>I thought Anakin was a product of Darth Plagius, Palpatine's master,
>>fucking around with the Force doing life experiments and getting some
>>Tatooine women knocked up inadvertently?
>
>What wackass side project produced that little nugget? That's
>an even sillier attempt at an explanation than the one that was in the
>movie.

The movie itself! Anakin, a dude who had no physical father but was conceived via the Force, is told a creepy story by Palpatine during that weird water opera thing they go to. During that scene Palpatine tells Anakin Darth Plagius was able to influence midachlorians to create life (Palpatine turns to look at Anakin when he says "create life",) all while they watch a giant watery orb has thing have wriggly bulb headed worm things swim around inside of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05dT34hGRdg

The point of the scene was Ol' Palp putting out the bait to bring Anakin to the Dark Side to save his wife while covertly being smug about killing his master, but I remember watching that scene in the theater and going "Holy shit, the Jedi were fucked from the start! Anakin was the result of a Sith experiment!" The One who was to bring Balance to the Force was always a Sith weapon to kill Jedi.

------
Oh God, it was me. I was the grognard all along.


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-25-15, 04:34 PM (EDT)
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21. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #20
 
   >The movie itself! Anakin, a dude who had no physical father but was
>conceived via the Force, is told a creepy story by Palpatine during
>that weird water opera thing they go to.

Ah, one of the other movies. I confess I may have dozed off somewhat during the opera scene. Actually, I may have dozed off at several points in Revenge of the Sith, but particularly the opera scene.

(That said, that movie does have the best joke in the entire prequel trilogy; that is admittedly not a terrifically high bar, but still, that one battle droid saying "You're welcome" to General Grievous is gold. Also, I would quite have enjoyed seeing the movie that the opening sequence was from, as opposed to the one that actually followed it. That would have been pretty cool.)

>I remember watching that scene in the
>theater and going "Holy shit, the Jedi were fucked from the start!
>Anakin was the result of a Sith experiment!" The One who was to bring
>Balance to the Force was always a Sith weapon to kill Jedi.

... because Chancellor Palpatine wasn't an opportunistic serial liar. Or anything. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Bad Moon
Member since Dec-17-02
310 posts
Dec-26-15, 09:38 PM (EDT)
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31. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #21
 
   It's true! From a certain point of view :D

------
Oh God, it was me. I was the grognard all along.


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Gryphonadmin
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Dec-25-15, 10:00 PM (EDT)
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22. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #15
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-15 AT 01:45 AM (EST)
 
>>I see Kylo Ren (or Ben Solo, if you prefer) as having more of a chance
>>of redemption.
>
>I have to admit, the more bits and pieces about the film I hear, the
>more my instinctive reaction to that proposition is, "Nah. Fuck that
>guy."

Still haven't seen the film, got curious enough to read the book. Having done so, I stand by the above. And I say this as a serial redeemer of villains: Fuck that guy. I hope he dies in a fire. Should've done already, actually, but lightsiders always blink at the wrong moments.

Less pithily, a serious question for those who have seen the picture: Is this guy somehow... I don't even know, somehow significant on film? Because in print he's just Darth Morrissey without the undercurrent of wit. (So, Darth Robert Smith, then.) Colossally unimpressive. Which kind of pulls everything else down, frankly, because everything's happening because of him and he's just... not worth any of that happening.

--G.
"Did I mention that I cried?"
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
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Sofaspud
Member since Apr-7-06
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Dec-26-15, 12:53 PM (EDT)
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25. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #22
 
   >Less pithily, a serious question for those who have seen the picture:
>Is this guy somehow... I don't even know, somehow significant
>on film?

Consensus in the house is split on whether he's an actual villain or not, but it's pretty much a given that we all think he should have just been called Darth Emo and been done with it.

He's not only not impressive, he's spectacularly un-impressive. While he's got the mask on he doesn't do a bad job -- to the point where I wondered if maybe he had a body double wearing the mask, and if so, hire that guy instead -- but when he takes it off he's just laughable.

In one sense he does an amazing job, and if it's intentional then I have to give props to the actor. There is nothing menacing about Kylo Ren. He is an angsting emo teen ("My soul is a black pit of despair", etc) with huge parent issues and a pitiable lack of self-control. He is not villainous; he does not come across as any sort of threat, certainly not one on the scale the movie would like you to think he is. And if that's what the actor was trying for, he whacked it outta the park. I don't think it was.

And that's where it really fails, I think. Because in most respects this is a great movie, but there's nothing there for the Good Guys to play off of. Darth Vader he is most emphatically not.

--sofaspud
--


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Gryphonadmin
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26. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #25
 
   >He is an angsting emo teen ("My soul is a black pit
>of despair", etc) with huge parent issues

", a simple puzzle I solved on Day One."

Aw come on! Idris Elba as someone just not putting up with his shit would be epic. I'd make him Lando Calrissian's son who was 10 or so when Empire happened (go ahead, try to tell me Lando wasn't the type who might've had a son he didn't know about until the guy turned up as a young adult), and has just never been impressed with "Cousin Ben". :)

>And that's where it really fails, I think. Because in most respects
>this is a great movie, but there's nothing there for the Good Guys to
>play off of. Darth Vader he is most emphatically not.

Darth Vader, shit, he's not even Darth Maul.

--G.
-><-
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Bad Moon
Member since Dec-17-02
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Dec-26-15, 08:50 PM (EDT)
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27. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #25
 
   A lot of people seem to be disappointed that Ren wasn't scary impressive like Vader but I think that was the point. Trying to copy an iconic character like Vader can just end up hollow at best and embarrassing at worst. A lot of people coming into Star Wars without a huge knowledge or love still probably know what a Star Wars Villain is supposed to act like. So they pulled a switcheroo on the expectations of Kylo Ren like a third of the way through the movie.

He's the counterpart to Rey, who runs from a legacy that she feels is too big for her while Ren desperately tries to embrace it but has BIG doubts he's large enough to fulfill it. They deliberately make Ren seem like a badass in his first scenes, but once act 1 is done you see Ren for what he is, which is exactly what's underneath the mask. He gets shit on by Space Nazi Bill Weasley in a way Vader would never have had happen. There's a scene where Ren is talking to Snoke without his mask and Hux comes in and Ren kinda has an expression on his face like "shit I need to put my mask on I don't look scary at all crap too late."

I don't think he was every supposed to be the new Vader. It all seems too deliberately designed to make you think yes these guys are Empire fanboys cosplaying and Ren is the biggest dork of them all. He has a ton more interesting bits to him as a character than Maul every did aside from some cool ink, a shiny lightsaber and some dance moves.

------
Oh God, it was me. I was the grognard all along.


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Gryphonadmin
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28. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #27
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-15 AT 09:22 PM (EST)
 
>A lot of people seem to be disappointed that Ren wasn't scary
>impressive like Vader but I think that was the point.

I'm not disputing that making him "scary impressive like Vader" would have been asking for trouble. I'm just a little puzzled that they didn't make him scary impressive in any way. There's more than one, you know. :)

>He gets shit on by Space Nazi Bill Weasley in a way Vader would never
>have had happen.

I've long found it interesting, now you say that, how not in charge of anything Vader obviously is in the original movie, compared to his position in Empire. In Star Wars, though personally intimidating, he's administratively pretty clearly just Grand Moff Tarkin's lackey. Tarkin orders him around like he's a minor functionary who also happens to be good at killing people, and the military bigwigs in the meeting scene don't particularly seem to respect him until he nearly kills one of them (and even then, some of the rest of them don't seem very impressed). He is plainly not the #2 man in the Empire; if anything, he seems more like a sort of Imperial double-0 agent, badass, but far from the top of the power structure.

Come the second film, and he just as clearly answers to no one but the Emperor. Sure, some of that may be simply because Tarkin is dead (and presumably so are those other guys), but still, that seems odd in retrospect. Being the highest-ranking survivor of a cockup like the Death Star operation is usually not a path to career advancement, and yet Vader seems to have come out of it in a better position than he went in.

Anyway, that's not directly germane to the Ren thing, but I was reminded of it by this line of inquiry—how much less impressive a figure Vader is within the setting in the first movie than the other two.

There are a lot of things in the first couple of movies that argue pretty strongly, based on what I know of my own creative process, against George Lucas's long-maintained claim that he had the whole story arc plotted in advance. It reads to my eye much, much more like he was making most of it up as he went along. Vader's changed status between Star Wars and Empire is one of those signposts. Now I freely admit that this is a personal interpretation—that's how it would look if I had done it—and maybe George's process works totally differently, but the overall effect is a bit uncanny. :)

(I'm not dissing him for that, by the way. If I were proven right at some point, I would diss him for fronting about it all these years, but the phenomenon itself? Shit, like I said, that's how practically everything I do works. :)

Anyway.

(Also, just as an aside: Not having seen either movie, I have to wonder, are people calling him Space Nazi Bill Weasley because he just resembles Bill Weasley, or is he actually played by the same actor, à la Space Nazi Doogie Howser in Starship Troopers? :)

>I don't think he was every supposed to be the new Vader.

I'm not saying he should have been the new Vader. I'm just saying it would have been nice if JJ et al had at least managed to make him seem important in some way, because as it stands, he just isn't. He's wearing Darth Revan's mask, but his character actually reminds me a lot more of Revan's erstwhile sidekick in Knights of the Old Republic, Darth Malak, who similarly never managed to give any impression of significance despite all the linchpin-of-plotline stuff he did.

And if you're right and it's not a mistake—the creators of the film actually did want their Big Bad to be actively, unmistakably pathetic—that's even worse in my mind, because what the fuck. :)

--G.
"They jussst don't make terrorissstsss the way they usssed to. COBRAAAAA"
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Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
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ejheckathorn
Member since Aug-9-13
50 posts
Dec-26-15, 09:34 PM (EDT)
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29. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #28
 
   >(Also, just as an aside: Not having seen either movie, I have to
>wonder, are people calling him Space Nazi Bill Weasley because he just
>resembles Bill Weasley, or is he actually played by the same
>actor, à la Space Nazi Doogie Howser in Starship
>Troopers
? :)

The latter.

Eric J. Heckathorn


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Bad Moon
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Dec-26-15, 09:36 PM (EDT)
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30. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #28
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-15 AT 09:42 PM (EST)
 
Yeah I guess its just clearly Ren's story isn't ending here. It goest back to how ineffective you mention Vader is, shouting at then getting out witted by teen princesses, being made fun of in staff meetings For loosing the TPS reports, killing a geriatric who stopped fighting and getting out flown by a farm boy whose training was flying hillbilly crop dusters and being told to just let it flow maaaaan.

If Vader's story ended there then it wouldn't be nearly as impressive. Now if Ren remains a whiny mess then yeah that'd be lame.

On a side note, am amused Azula Last Scion of Hitlers gets the redeem treatment but Ben Solo doesn't. But I guess If Azula killed Sokka it would change things :D
------
Oh God, it was me. I was the grognard all along.


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ejheckathorn
Member since Aug-9-13
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Dec-26-15, 09:44 PM (EDT)
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32. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #30
 
   >On a side note, am amused Azula Last Scion of Hitlers gets the redeem
>treatment but Ben Solo doesn't. But I guess If Azula killed Asoka it
>would change things :D

Whatever else Azula may have been, she wasn't pathetic.

Eric J. Heckathorn


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Gryphonadmin
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33. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #30
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-15 AT 09:50 PM (EST)
 
>On a side note, am amused Azula Last Scion of Hitlers gets the redeem
>treatment but Ben Solo doesn't. But I guess If Azula killed Sokka it
>would change things :D

THINGS AZULA DIDN'T DO

- Kill Han Solo.
- Whine.

--G.
Rant incoherently from time to time, yes, but no whining.
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Bad Moon
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34. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #33
 
   God help you if you leave a cherry pit or are the wrong twin though!

------
Oh God, it was me. I was the grognard all along.


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Matrix Dragon
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35. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #28
 
   >Come the second film, and he just as clearly answers to no one but the
>Emperor. Sure, some of that may be simply because Tarkin is dead (and
>presumably so are those other guys), but still, that seems odd in
>retrospect. Being the highest-ranking survivor of a cockup like the
>Death Star operation is usually not a path to career
>advancement, and yet Vader seems to have come out of it in a better
>position than he went in.

The current Darth Vader comic is very much about answering that problem. Vader's kinda on the Emperors shit list after the Death Star blew up, and he's working to improve his standing... and then gets started on working out how to kill and replace the Emperor, because he has officially run out of patience with this crap :lol

>He's wearing Darth Revan's mask, but his character
>actually reminds me a lot more of Revan's erstwhile sidekick in
>Knights of the Old Republic, Darth Malak, who similarly never
>managed to give any impression of significance despite all the
>linchpin-of-plotline stuff he did.

No, see, unlike Malek, Kylo at least has some excuses, in that he's a kid who's had an asshole messing with his head for years with the goal of... well, actually, I think it's the old X-23 strategy. "Yes, I shall emotionally torture him into a soulless weapon of mass destruction that does what he's told! That never goes badly!"

Malek is just an idiot.

>And if you're right and it's not a mistake—the creators of
>the film actually did want their Big Bad to be actively,
>unmistakably pathetic—that's even worse in my mind, because
>what the fuck. :)

I think it's less 'pathetic' and more 'incomplete'. TFA is very much setup for the rest of the trilogy, because that's how movie series work now (And at least they manage to still put an ending in, unlike some movies that try the series approach). At this point, Kylo is pretty Anakin not long after he fell to the Dark Side, with a bit more emotional instability because Snoke has him convinced he's supposed to be something he's not, leading to the old 'square peg, round hole' problem. Now he's killed his dad, believing that this will cure him of all his emotional problems (When it's probably gonna do the exact opposite), and then spent about ten minutes with Chewie, Finn and Rey beating the absolute shit out of him in a variety of ways that were very enjoyable to watch.

Now he's even more messed up, probably to the point he's gonna be needing some cybernetics (Just what Snoke needs to convince him 'oh look! You're more like Vader every day! You go, you little Han-killing loony!'), and his Master's talking about completing his training. I'm really curious to see what he's like in episode 8.

Which, I fully admit, doesn't make him any less pathetic at times in TFA. At least he gets a few nifty moments.

The fun part though, is that the fandom isn't going to want him to get redeemed now, even if, like Vader, he dies immediately afterwards. After all, he just killed Han. That's got a lot more emotional impact than anything Vader did in the original trilogy, even killing Obi-wan.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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Gryphonadmin
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36. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #35
 
   >The fun part though, is that the fandom isn't going to want him to get
>redeemed now, even if, like Vader, he dies immediately afterwards.
>After all, he just killed Han. That's got a lot more emotional impact
>than anything Vader did in the original trilogy, even killing Obi-wan.

George kind of did Vader's villainy a disservice in the original films by leaving a bunch of it offscreen. In the first film, he's not the one who pulls the trigger on Alderaan (in fact, he gives the distinct impression that he thinks it's a waste of time); in the second, everybody I can think of whom he actually kills on-camera is an Imperial officer, so who really gives a shit; both there and in the third, apart from talking a lot of shit while beating up on/getting beaten up on by Luke, he really sort of doesn't do anything evil. It's all just implied. After the establishing scene on the blockade runner he ramps way back on the unprovoked murder. The closest he ever really gets to proper villainy after that is when he kills Obi-Wan, which is structured such that it's obviously unfinished personal business.

Even when he's torturing Princess Leia in the first film and having Han tortured in Empire, in the first case they don't show it, and in the second he can't be bothered to do it himself. Besides, in both cases it's plainly Just Business as far as he's concerned. She's an Enemy of the State and he's a way of getting Luke's attention. That's ruthless and sociopathic, to be sure, but it's also his job. He doesn't indulge himself much in the kind of casual mayhem that his reputation throughout the series implies he's known for.

But then, as a clone of the Emperor once pointed out in one of those now-discarded post-Jedi comic series, "The great Darth Vader was a sick man in an iron mask." Maybe he just couldn't be arsed to be properly evil most of the time. In fact, say what you will about Revenge, he certainly is in that between when he fully turns and when Obi-Wan chops off his shit! Way more psychopathic than he ever appears in the Dave Prowse era.

Kylo, on the other hand? Kylo is like one of those lame Are You Shocked Yet? magicians-cum-protest-performance-artists. You get the impression he would have expressed his inner torment and his disdain for Polite Society by taking up polesitting or suspending himself upside-down by his many-piercingèd ballsack in the portico of the Galactic Senate building, except that bullshit like that has never actually been invented in the galaxy far, far away and he's not innovative enough to think of it himself.

Which is fine, if that's the way you wanna set up your villain, but the more I consider it, the more I'm really not down with the filmmakers deciding that what he's gonna Shock Us with is killing my favorite guy from the original films.

Oh, yeah, speaking of the Galactic Senate, wow—didn't take the New Republic long to re-establish the conditions that led to the downfall of the Old, did it? The old one managed to last 20,000 years somehow, but it's like when they set up the new one, someone loaded a saved game from after they lost the game but before the "you lost" cutscene played. :)

That last is not a dig at the film, since I expect anyone setting up a replacement for the Old Republic as seen in the prequel trilogy probably would fuck it up that way. After all, anyone who remembers how the thing worked back when it did actually work is probably long dead.

--G.
-><-
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Malkarris
Member since Jan-5-11
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Dec-29-15, 08:33 PM (EDT)
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44. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #36
 
   About Kylo Ren, if you like the fake twitter account thing, you should see this.

https://twitter.com/KyloR3n

That is all.

I won't fight you Atton.
I don't care, I just want you to die.
(Disciple and Atton KOTOR2)


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Offsides
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51. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #28
 
   Just saw it last night, here's my take:

Anakin was an angry young man who was drawn to the Dark Side, embraced it, and only tried to come back after it destroyed him and he didn't want the same for his son. The good in him was a remnant, not part of his core.

Kylo Ren is an angry young man who wants to embrace the Dark Side because he's angry and that's what all the cool, angry Jedi do, but his heart isn't really in it. He's got (or at least had) a good heart in there, he just doesn't want it and is fighting it all the way.

He thinks offing his dad will make him truly badass, but all it really does is make him an asshole. The question is, will be eventually grow up and realize that, or will he keep doubling down trying to prove how evil he is while just passing of everyone around him.

And while my first instinct was that Rey was Ren's sister, making her Luke's daughter makes much more sense as I think about it...

Offsides

[...] in order to be a realist you must believe in miracles.
-- David Ben Gurion
EPU RCW #π
#include <stdsig.h>


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Gryphonadmin
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9. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #7
 
   >Look at when something frustrates him, his first act was to
>draw his lightsaber and beat on something and scream in frustration.

I'm not sure exactly why, but when I read this part I got a vivid recollection of that part of the Alien Nation TV series opening where Sykes flips out while driving and starts punching the inside of the car. :)

--G.
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Mephronmoderator
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10. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #9
 
   Hilariously, in a recent discussion about the show on another site I'm on, everyone who remembered it remembers that piece.


--
Geoff Depew - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lord of Sith Tech Support.
"And Remember! Google is your Friend!!"


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BZArchermoderator
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14. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #10
 
   And it applies rather well!

---------------------------
Jaymie "BZArcher" Wagner
She/They
@BZArcher / bzarcher at gmail
"Life is change. Let’s live.”


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drakensis
Member since Dec-20-06
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Dec-24-15, 06:35 AM (EDT)
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11. "RE: Thoughts on Kylo Ren"
In response to message #7
 
   >....and what's his father's last act before dying? Touching his son's
>face in a way that says, "You are my son and I love you." That can't
>do anything but leave a mark in him - even at last his father believed
>there was good in him.

It reminds me somewhat of a scene from the Berserk Abridged fan-series where Guts tries to deal with his parental issues by killing a young boy with a similar background.

He is shocked to find that this makes his parental issues worse.

Somehow I don't think 'completing his training' will make Kylo Ren feel better about this.

D.


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Gryphonadmin
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23. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-15 AT 01:50 AM (EST)
 
Also, while I'm being mildly contrarian, has anyone else noticed that—if the novelization is actually a reasonably close representation of the plot of the film, which I admit is never a sure bet—this is the same story as the original Star Wars? It's not an exact copy, like that bizarre shot-for-shot remake of Psycho that came out a few years ago, but all the set pieces are there, just rearranged a little. It's basically Star Wars if the Vader-Kenobi duel had somehow managed to take place during the Battle of Yavin.

"I said don't alienate the fans of the original, JJ, but Jesus." :)

--G.
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Matrix Dragon
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24. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #23
 
   >Also, while I'm being mildly contrarian, has anyone else noticed
>that—if the novelization is actually a reasonably close
>representation of the plot of the film, which I admit is never a sure
>bet—this is the same story as the original Star Wars?

Yeah, the novel has a few extra scenes (Poe escaping Jakuu, the Resistance scenes before Leia and Han meet again, and the fat salvage trader showing up again to harass Rey at Maz's are the big ones), but yeah, everyone's commented on that at this point. It's usually the biggest complaint about the movie really. Personally, I like one summary I saw regarding it. Instead of reinventing the wheel, like the prequels tried and were crucified for, they're showing people they understand why the wheels are round. Episode VIII is where they'll start really shaking things up, I expect.

Hell, if nothing else, watching the movie, you got the impression that Han had noticed the same thing, well before making it to Starkiller Base. "Desert planet, droid with vital intel, the Falcon... Aw hell, I'm the daft old man, aren't I?"

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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junipermoderator
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Dec-27-15, 08:39 AM (EDT)
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37. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #24
 
   >>Also, while I'm being mildly contrarian, has anyone else noticed
>>that—if the novelization is actually a reasonably close
>>representation of the plot of the film, which I admit is never a sure
>>bet—this is the same story as the original Star Wars?
>
>Yeah, the novel has a few extra scenes (Poe escaping Jakuu, the
>Resistance scenes before Leia and Han meet again, and the fat salvage
>trader showing up again to harass Rey at Maz's are the big ones), but
>yeah, everyone's commented on that at this point.

I believe my five word summary of it to my spouse was, "Diablo III - only better done."

:)


Juniper
Rampaging Karateka Crypto-Kwavu'b Contributing Editor (and Moderator)
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
Because why be ordinary in your choice of hobbies?


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Chris Redfield
Charter Member
255 posts
Dec-28-15, 02:53 PM (EDT)
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38. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #23
 
   >Also, while I'm being mildly contrarian, has anyone else noticed
>that—if the novelization is actually a reasonably close
>representation of the plot of the film, which I admit is never a sure
>bet—this is the same story as the original Star Wars? It's
>not an exact copy, like that bizarre shot-for-shot remake of
>Psycho that came out a few years ago, but all the set pieces
>are there, just rearranged a little. It's basically Star Wars
>if the Vader-Kenobi duel had somehow managed to take place during the
>Battle of Yavin.

I see it more of a remix of the original trilogy as a whole. I don't think thats a bad thing either. It re-establishes the setting with modern storytelling, quality special effects, and leaves lots of room to move forward.

-------------------------------------
Chris can't handle chemicals


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Chris Redfield
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255 posts
Dec-28-15, 03:15 PM (EDT)
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39. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #0
 
   Speaking of Awakening. I really hope they were talking about Finn. I really really really want there to be good guy force wielder types out there who aren't freaking Skywalkers.

Oh oh... and speaking of good guy force wielder types! Hurray for Rey and a light sider finally winning a fight by surrendering to the light side of the force!


-------------------------------------
Chris can't handle chemicals


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
22375 posts
Dec-28-15, 03:47 PM (EDT)
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40. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #39
 
   >Speaking of Awakening. I really hope they were talking about Finn. I
>really really really want there to be good guy force wielder types out
>there who aren't freaking Skywalkers.

On the one hand, I agree with point 2. On the other, one of my favorite bits of the narrative in the book is the scene where Finn is fighting with a lightsaber and he's all "I have no idea what the hell they are talking about with this Force thing but this is a sword and OK OK OK I can make that work" with it. He doesn't win, unfortunately, but I love it when non-Force-users kick ass on Force-users. It's like finding someone who isn't Neo and still has half a chance against an Agent. It's just satisfying. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Chris Redfield
Charter Member
255 posts
Dec-29-15, 01:42 PM (EDT)
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43. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #40
 
   >>Speaking of Awakening. I really hope they were talking about Finn. I
>>really really really want there to be good guy force wielder types out
>>there who aren't freaking Skywalkers.
>
>On the one hand, I agree with point 2. On the other, one of my
>favorite bits of the narrative in the book is the scene where Finn is
>fighting with a lightsaber and he's all "I have no idea what the hell
>they are talking about with this Force thing but this is a sword and
>OK OK OK I can make that work" with it. He doesn't win,
>unfortunately, but I love it when non-Force-users kick ass on
>Force-users. It's like finding someone who isn't Neo and still has
>half a chance against an Agent. It's just satisfying. :)

When I left the movie, I was hopeful that Rey wouldn't be a Skywalker, then Finn could be a nice combination of well trained, lucky, and playing against a wounded opponent. Its still possible I was right, and that the force/lightsaber called out to her because the whole Skywalker thing wasn't working out as intended, but I doubt it.

-------------------------------------
Chris can't handle chemicals


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Nathan
Charter Member
1382 posts
Dec-28-15, 07:28 PM (EDT)
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41. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #0
 
   So. Just got back from seeing it.

- Rey's accent. Rrowr.
- Also, forget lightsabers. Somebody give that girl a 'saber-proof staff and then stand back.
- Rey's reluctance to pick up The Saber is, to me, pretty clearly not a 'legacy' thing, except in the sense of somebody being unwilling to bunk down in one of Auschwitz's communal shower rooms. Even if it's harmless to her, now...
- I get what Finn's lying streak is intended to be, both IC and OOC. It makes sense in context. But I did not find it endearing or amusing, and, for me, it actively hurt to watch. So he's my least favorite of the new characters.
- Poe is fucking awesome.
- Awesome Ancient Goggles Lady is also Awesome.
- I can see why people dismiss Kylo Ren as 'Darth Emo', I can. His personality and... issues... are certainly his weakspot, both in-character and as a character.
- They're still making a huge, huge mistake. His 'Force Freeze' trick is terrifying, properly applied. His... let's be honest, mindrape gig is also terrifying. And in the new-line canon, bloody nobody has taken anything like the kind of battering needed to stop him. Even in the old EU, the only one that comes to mind is Darth Sion.
- Starkiller is an idea that, on paper, just looks like the Nostril of Palpatine. But when you actually lay out its tactical and strategic implications - it's a terrifying war-winner. If the First Order had had the same kind of resources the Empire had to throw at defending the thing, you'd need something on the scale of the Battle of Coruscant to take it out. It's like if GDI got to call down Ion Cannon strikes on map coordinates without needing line of sight.

-----

The most wonderful thing about BBs
Is BBs are wonderful things
Their sides are made out of iron
Their guns are made out of pain
They're crashy smashy bashy flashy fun-fun-fun-fun-fun
But the most wonderful thing about BBs
Is there is more than one
The~re is more than one!


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Verbena
Charter Member
1107 posts
Dec-29-15, 12:23 PM (EDT)
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42. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #41
 
   >So. Just got back from seeing it.
>
>- Rey's accent. Rrowr.

Just...a strong heroine in general. Rowr. I loathe damsels in distress.

>- Also, forget lightsabers. Somebody give that girl a 'saber-proof
>staff and then stand back.

Calling it now: She needs a double saber like Maul. She strikes me as more martially inclined and less force-use-happy than Luke.

>- Rey's reluctance to pick up The Saber is, to me, pretty clearly
>not a 'legacy' thing, except in the sense of somebody being
>unwilling to bunk down in one of Auschwitz's communal shower rooms.

I thought it was clear she received a psychometric vision the moment she touched it the first time, and Maz tried to explain it to her. Her reluctance seemed based on that; it made a good excuse for her to run back to Jakku.

>Even if it's harmless to her, now...
>- I get what Finn's lying streak is intended to be, both IC and OOC.
>It makes sense in context. But I did not find it endearing or amusing,
>and, for me, it actively hurt to watch. So he's my least
>favorite of the new characters.

It hurt to watch that nonsense, too, and though it makes sense in context it's still a Young Guy In Love kind of mistake. =)


>- I can see why people dismiss Kylo Ren as 'Darth Emo', I can. His
>personality and... issues... are certainly his weakspot, both
>in-character and as a character.

Yes, very much so. He has a Young Guy problem, too--he is emotionally torn to bits and Snoke has quite intentionally made his problem worse.

>- They're still making a huge, huge mistake. His 'Force Freeze' trick
>is terrifying, properly applied. His... let's be honest, mindrape gig
>is also terrifying. And in the new-line canon, bloody
>nobody has taken anything like the kind of battering
>needed to stop him. Even in the old EU, the only one that comes to
>mind is Darth Sion.

All this is absolutely true--some of Kylo's powers are VERY potent. Freezing the blaster bolt is especially frightening. What blows my mind though is how wealk his telekinesis was when trying to get Luke's lightsaber at the end. I knew Rey was going to draw it to her hand (I knew it'd happen at -some- point the moment Finn carried it onto Starkiller) and I'm sure everyone knew she'd pull it from the snow the moment it appeared there--the callback to Empire is obvious. But Kylo was struggling with that simple telekinesis mightily and Rey was a great deal stronger. It will be interesting to see how they develop their different strengths.

IIRC, Darth Sion's amazing resilience was due to a constant mental focus thing; you couldn't actually beat him conventionally. You had to convince him of something. Maybe that he was really already dead? Been ages since I beat KOTOR2.

>- Starkiller is an idea that, on paper, just looks like the Nostril of
>Palpatine. But when you actually lay out its tactical and strategic
>implications - it's a terrifying war-winner. If the First Order had
>had the same kind of resources the Empire had to throw at defending
>the thing, you'd need something on the scale of the Battle of
>Coruscant to take it out. It's like if GDI got to call down Ion Cannon
>strikes on map coordinates without needing line of sight.

Actually, if I remember C&C3 and Kane's Wrath correctly the Ion Cannon, Nuclear Missile and Black Hole Generator (the superweapons) were the only powers that -could- be targeted into the Fog of War. =) Been ages for that, too, though.


------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her


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Mister Fnord
Charter Member
294 posts
Dec-29-15, 08:58 PM (EDT)
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45. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #0
 
   Rey Rei Rei-Rey:

--
Mr. Fnord, because why not?


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junipermoderator
Charter Member
515 posts
Dec-30-15, 02:33 PM (EDT)
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46. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #45
 
   OK, that's gorgeous.

Who did it?


Juniper
Rampaging Karateka Crypto-Kwavu'b Contributing Editor (and Moderator)
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
Because why be ordinary in your choice of hobbies?


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Mister Fnord
Charter Member
294 posts
Dec-30-15, 06:32 PM (EDT)
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47. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #46
 
   My ever-loyal army of probe droids tells me it was this guy who I've never heard of but has some pretty impressive stuff on his Facebook.
--
Mr. Fnord


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TheOtherSean
Member since Jul-7-08
246 posts
Dec-30-15, 07:21 PM (EDT)
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48. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #45
 
   >Rey Rei Rei-Rey:
>

"This isn't the Rey we're looking for. You can go about your business."

:)

--
The Other Sean - Don't accept substitutes!
Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
22375 posts
Jan-01-16, 00:19 AM (EDT)
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50. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #45
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jan-01-16 AT 00:24 AM (EST)
 
Right then. UF-Rei, next chance we get, you're going shopping for an astromech.

--G.
BB-0 even works with the naming convention, more or less.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Peter Eng
Charter Member
2045 posts
Jan-01-16, 04:29 AM (EDT)
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52. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #50
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jan-01-16 AT 04:29 AM (EST)
 
>Right then. UF-Rei, next chance we get, you're going shopping for an
>astromech.
>

"Prediction: The interactions between myself and the new character will be comedy gold."
"Concern: I may be the straight man."

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.


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junipermoderator
Charter Member
515 posts
Jan-01-16, 02:40 PM (EDT)
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53. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #52
 
   >>Right then. UF-Rei, next chance we get, you're going shopping for an
>>astromech.
>>
>
>"Prediction: The interactions between myself and the new character
>will be comedy gold."
>"Concern: I may be the straight man."

Ahem. Might we steal that line? ;) (No promises, of course, but...)


Juniper
Rampaging Karateka Crypto-Kwavu'b Contributing Editor (and Moderator)
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited
Because why be ordinary in your choice of hobbies?


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Peter Eng
Charter Member
2045 posts
Jan-02-16, 01:27 AM (EDT)
Click to EMail Peter%20Eng Click to send private message to Peter%20Eng Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
54. "RE: SW7 TFA: yet more spoilage"
In response to message #53
 
   >>>Right then. UF-Rei, next chance we get, you're going shopping for an
>>>astromech.
>>>
>>
>>"Prediction: The interactions between myself and the new character
>>will be comedy gold."
>>"Concern: I may be the straight man."
>
>Ahem. Might we steal that line? ;) (No promises, of course, but...)

If you find a use for it, go right ahead.

Peter Eng
--
Wait. You mean that wasn't part of the Terms and Conditions of the forum? Man, I have to start reading those things.


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