It's true. The "bad guy" of the piece is a dickless pencil pusher, but he's not actually evil. He's not even doing what he does for particularly selfish reasons; he think it's The Right Thing, because he's a dickless pencil pusher. :)

--G.
Yes, I am being deliberately unfair for comedic purposes. :)
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Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

That's one of the things lost in the transition from textual to visual mediums, namely the inner monologues and paragraphs of information that would make what seems a callous decision into at least a respectable one. Teddy didn't axe the rescue plan because he was an asshole, he did it because it was risking five lives for the possible rescue of the sixth.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

I think they did a fairly decent job of expressing that, actually. He doesn't come across as callous, only cowardly. I think what both the filmmakers and Weir were kind of going for was that Teddy represents modern, bureaucratic, overly-risk-averse-because-fucked-up-too-often-before NASA, whereas Mitch represents Apollo-era NASA, and this is a situation that calls for the latter, not the former. And Vincent/Venkat is somewhere in between, but rather closer to Teddy's end of the spectrum, and generally most interested in not ending up in the crossfire (as Mitch rather dismissively says of him in Ares III Refocused, "Kapoor never met an opinion he didn't like").

As such, it's a fairly realistic touch that Mitch is the one who gets shit done and then is punished for his hubris. After all, it was the 17 astronauts killed by the agency not getting away with Apollo-style thinking that made Teddy-style NASA so cowardly in the first place. The agency insiders called it Project Appalling for a reason...

--G.
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I wouldn't call Teddy cowardly. It's more that he's the man that has to make the final decisions, and events kept kicking him in the crotch over it. And on top of that, he's got NASA as a whole to worry about. I'm reminded of the scene right before they discover Mark's alive, where he's explaining to Venkat why he's blocked satellite footage of the Ares 3 site.

"You want an Ares six? Congress wouldn't reimburse us for a PAPERCLIP if we put a dead astronauts body on the front page of every newspaper on the planet."

It's something he hints at a few times, most of all in the very well done scene in the movie where he and Mitch are talking after Hermes goes ahead with the Rich Parnell plan. It wouldn't shock me if people in Washington were talking about abandoning the Mars program entirely after the Ares 3 disaster, and Teddy's the poor bastard that has to talk them out of it. Other people get to have the crazy schemes and leaps of faith. He's the one stuck being responsible.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

Well, all right, but "institutionally risk-averse to the point of paralysis" was too long-winded.

--G.
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I think it was more a case that Teddy had taken a major gamble with the first probe, acting in that Apollo-era spirit of cutting corners where he could and gambling that the gods would be kind to him. He promised Bruce the funding for the insane amount of overtime that would be needed to do a six month job in three, then raised the stakes by telling him to skip pre-launch tests to buy more time for Watney (even saying that the decision to do so will be on him to put Bruce at ease). And finally, when they get to that bit of Refocused, he says aloud his belief at that time that he'd killed Watney. Not "we," but "I."

One can easily imagine that, in that period between the rescue and the "where are they now" ending, Teddy spent some very uncomfortable days or even weeks stuck before Congress, needing to justify every decision made and every dollar spent. And with a major red blot like this on the ledger, it's a testament to his administrative abilities that the only person forced to fall on their sword was Mitch.

>As such, it's a fairly realistic touch that Mitch is the one who gets
>shit done and then is punished for his hubris. After all, it was the
>17 astronauts killed by the agency not getting away with
>Apollo-style thinking that made Teddy-style NASA so cowardly in the
>first place. The agency insiders called it Project Appalling for a
>reason...

You certainly can't fault Mitch for his dedication to or confidence in the crew. But it wasn't his choice to make and it wasn't just hubris, it was a massive breach of the trust Teddy had put in him to do his job. We're not talking Gene Kranz here, working the problem with Apollo 13 because there's no alternatives. There was clearly an alternative on the table, one that kept five astronauts alive with the potential of extending the life of the sixth. It was Teddy's decision to make and Mitch went behind his back to force the decision he wanted, thereby risking all six lives and possibly the future of NASA. In that scenario, demanding Mitch's resignation was the least dickish thing Teddy could have done.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

More to the point, he told Mitch he expected it 'when it was all over'. And give Mitch credit, the look on his face showed he'd expected as much, and understood why. And then we see Mitch and Teddy continuing to work together like adults, right through the Chinese launch and beyond.

Now I REALLY want to see that documentary on the blu-ray. Stupid Australian release date.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

Somebody's probably stuck it on YouTube by now. I'm just puttin' it out there. :)

--G.
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Oh lord, I loved Teddy. The movie did wonders with him, especially in the scene where he makes it clear to Mitch there's going to be Consequences for his actions.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

If you have access to the extras and haven't checked them out yet, do - one of them is a faux-retrospective-documentary on the Ares III mission. Bridges and Bean are brilliant as Now That the Dust Has Settled Teddy and Mitch.

--G.
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DVD isn't out down here yet :(

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

Bummer. Well, when it is, hopefully it has the same set of extras. Several of them are quite good. (Looks like it's... you guys do day first in your x/y/z-style dates, yeah? I hope so, because then "10/02/16" means it's out the 10th of next month, not October 2nd as that date automatically reads to me.)

--G.
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I never understood that? I mean, day/month/year or year/month/day, doesn't matter to me, either is understandable. But, why would you do month/day/year? It isn't logical, to me.

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

------
Fearless creatures, we all learn to fight the Reaper
Can't defeat Her, so instead I'll have to be Her

It's just a regionalism. As noted by another user, it has to do with the way we say dates aloud. It's equally weird to us that people in the Commonwealth* start with the day of the month (and then usually omit "the" and "of", for good measure - "second October" sounds like an ordinal designation within a set of Octobers).

Strictly speaking, the only logical numerical date rendering is the one that sorts properly chronologically (yyyy/mm/dd); at which point the American system at least still works if all the dates being sorted fall within the same year, while the Commonwealth system is no use at all. :)

--G.
* No, Fallout 4 players, not that Commonwealth.
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..oh

Yeah, it's next month. Thank God. If it was October for some insane reason, my brain would implode.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

...I'm nearly at a loss for words, could you drop a link to that strange strange creature?

"Ahhhhhhhh!"

"Ahhhhhhhhhh!"

Having declined to pay even the most cursory attention to the instruments, the terrified screaming of his fellow Kerbonauts was the first clue Jebediah Kerman had that something had gone horribly, horribly wrong. But it wasn't the last.

It's actually a trilogy:

Part 1: Duna, Ore Bust!
Part 2: Eve: Order Zero
Part 3: Kerbfleet: A Jool Odyssey (in progress)

Eve: Order Zero is the one that mentions the barratry/mutiny distinction.

---

I've seen both the book and the movie dinged on the grounds that Watney isn't as emotionally wrecked as a man in his position actually would be, which... well, I mean, what kind of narrative are those people looking for, anyway?

(Also, when I see the movie specifically criticized for Watney lacking Emotional Response, I kind of wonder what movie we're talking about. He seems plenty emotional to me. He's just not histrionic, apart from the extremely justified little outburst when he realizes how fucked he is now that the Hab's popped.)

>along with the need to jettison some extraneous scenes and compress
>the timescale.

I know, right? I was practically holding my breath during the "modifying the Rover" scene, waiting for him to kill Pathfinder. ... Just as happy they left that out, actually.

>But it keeps the wit and humor, while Matt Damon
>really plays a believable Mark Watney.

"Well, tell that asshole no barrel rolls."

>One other thing I love about the film is that it followed the sort of
>approach that Guardians of the Galaxy did, using good music from a
>particular era (in this case, 70s disco) to compliment the awesome
>visuals.

One is tempted to give you an eyebrow with regards to the use of the word "good" there, but I, um, sort of actually don't mind disco so, yeah. That was probably the best use "Waterloo" is ever going to get in a movie. :)

("No. I'm not, I'm not going to turn the beat around. I refuse to.")

>One scene of which includes what is (in retrospect) a
>tearjerker moment: The use of Bowie's "Starman" while the steps to
>resupply the Hermes are gone over on the ground and in space.

That was more than mildly eerie, given the timing of the Blu-Ray's US release. "Hang on, is that... oh. Um. Yeah."

--G.
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Mark had plenty of emotional scenes in both the book and the movie (One of my favourites is his rant right after the airlock blew), but as was noted in the book, one of the reasons he was chosen for the mission in the first place is that he's the sort of guy whose response to problems is usually 'fix shit now, have a panic attack later'.

I think they did pretty well with the emotional side of things in the movie. The scene where he's just quietly boxing up all the personal items everyone left behind, for instance, or the moment of exhausted terror on his face when the storm is testing his repair work to the Hab. Matt Damon did a hell of a job in a movie where he had no one to act against for all but three scenes.

And really, that 'fuck!' after he's dealt with his injury at the start of the movie is one of the best F-bombs in movie history. Although I am sorry that the limit on profanity in movie ratings denied cinema attendees the glory that is Annie Montrose on a roll.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter
"The press is crawling down my throat for this. And up my ass. Both directions Venkat! They're gonna meet in the middle!"

As is the cheery, "Fuck you, Mars!" after he finishes building the potato field.

--G.
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It also makes me wonder just what sort of person they think we send into space. With the occasional exception, NASA has generally tried to avoid sending emotional basketcases up, as spaceflight is a high stress job where a lapse in attention can grow into a life-threatening situation. If the first thing you do when facing certain doom is burst into histrionics, chances are you're a dead budgie.

>I know, right? I was practically holding my breath during the
>"modifying the Rover" scene, waiting for him to kill Pathfinder. ...
>Just as happy they left that out, actually.

Well, for me, it wasn't so much leaving out a scene as changing one. It was the "making water" scene, which was probably changed either for pacing or timing purposes, but ended up introducing a goof into the movie. And I was disappointed mostly because we lost an excellent little bit of humor, namely his initial confidence that he was going to make enough water to live...and then his next journal entry starting with "I'm fucked and I'm going to die!" because he came to realize that he wasn't burning enough of the hydrogen and had turned the Hab into a bomb.

>"Well, tell that asshole no barrel rolls."

"How's he doing?"
"Uh...he asked us to call him Captain Blondebeard."

>One is tempted to give you an eyebrow with regards to the use of the
>word "good" there, but I, um, sort of actually don't
>mind disco so, yeah. That was probably the best use "Waterloo"
>is ever going to get in a movie. :)
>
>("No. I'm not, I'm not going to turn the beat around. I refuse to.")

And let's be honest, that was one of the funniest and perhaps most appropriate uses of "Hot Stuff" in a movie ever.

>That was more than mildly eerie, given the timing of the Blu-Ray's US
>release. "Hang on, is that... oh. Um. Yeah."

Yeah, that was my first response as well, when the scene came up. Then I thought of it as a sort of fitting tribute...before remembering this film came out months before Bowie died.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Overwatch Reject

I started cackling when that hit in the theater, because I grew up with Abba. I recognized the opening chords a good fifteen seconds before anybody else had any idea what it was.

>>One is tempted to give you an eyebrow with regards to the use of the
>>word "good" there, but I, um, sort of actually don't
>>mind disco so, yeah. That was probably the best use "Waterloo"
>>is ever going to get in a movie. :)
>
>I started cackling when that hit in the theater, because I grew up
>with Abba. I recognized the opening chords a good fifteen seconds
>before anybody else had any idea what it was.

Eurovision song contest winning entry, 1974!

--G.
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(Waterloo won 1974, and I'm sorry for being a picker of nits, but hey, national pride and all)

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

hnnngh.

In my defense, I'm an American, which means I am genetically incapable of taking the Eurovision song contest seriously anyway.

--G.
HILLBILLY #1
(reading from card)
Who won the 1982 World Cup'a Soccer?

HILLBILLY #2
(contemptuously)
Buncha fairies in tight shorts.

HILLBILLY #1
(turns card over, looks impressed)
You're right!

NARRATOR (VO)
Redneck Trivial Pursuit will not be seen tonight so that we can bring you the following episode of Almost Live!
- Almost Live! opening gag, ca. 1990, paraphrased from memory
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The back of my brain apparently has Pat Cashman's voice in permanent record. I know exactly what that sounds like.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.

Some songs are eternal. Others, not so much.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter

SAID I was sorry...

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

--G.
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Vision, decked out in the EU flag-and-map. Euro Vision.

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

<rimshot>

-- Bob
-------------------
My race is pacifist and does not believe in war. We kill only out of personal spite.

...!
Gott's Leetle Feesh in Trousers!

-dbrandon

That is GREAT.

Peter Eng
--
Insert humorous comment here.

That is the premise of Moon. Highly recommended film.

nb, I finally got to see The Martian this afternoon. That's why the comments are late coming. Red Box is something like a month behind general home video sales.

A couple of my favorite comic asides from the book that are absent from the movie do turn up in one of the on-disc extras.

>Lewis for anything 70s, not just Disco but Happy Days, etc

Watney's watching Happy Days once in the movie, in the scene where he's figuring out how to make a fire in a fireproof Hab. No Dukes of Hazzard references, though, alas.

>Lewis and her husband were happy about him finding
>ABBA's Greatest Hits

That's in there, too! On vinyl, no less.

>and (funniest for me), Johanssen had her father
>convinced NASA has plans for cannibalism. :)

I... didn't read that bit as a joke, but I think I would have been more comfortable with it if I had. :)

--G.
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That, um, that wasn't a joke. It also wasn't NASA's plan, it was the crews in the event everything went wrong (again).

The joke came later, from Martinez, because Watney wasn't available and so the ships Backup Bad Joke Officer was required.

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter