Indeed. She's very English about it, though. "Oh well, mustn't grumble."

It just occurred to me, as well, that Hurry does have an actual younger sister, who would probably only appear once or twice. Typhoon is kind of a troubled kid - capable, but confused. Doesn't know what she wants to be when she grows up. There are also rumors floating around that she's experimented with drugs and runs with a bad crowd.

Tiffy would turn up a couple of times over the course of the series to give her big sister something else to worry about, and then would reappear in the big series finale - having completely gotten her act together and changed her name to Tempest.

>Of course, with that ruggedness comes crude talk and manners, as well
>has her insistence on wearing a non-regulation leather jacket with a
>prominent Flying Tiger logo on the back.

"Hey, man, I was in this war before it was a war. I didn't sit around on my ass and wait for the Japs to bomb Pearl like some people I could mention. Ni hao, you sonsofbitches, here's piss in your eye! Speaking of which, we got any more of that cheapass beer left?"

>There's a bit of an unspoken rivalry between her and P-51, as
>while they both served together in Europe and Asia, 51 is better known
>in the former while she's the unrivaled ace in the latter.

True. The Germans probably respect her more, though. I wouldn't put it past her to have a tattoo of their nickname for her someplace (Gabelschwanz Teufel, "Fork-Tailed Devil").

>She's also
>frequently seen with her uniform partially unbuttoned and fanning
>herself as she complains about the heat.

On the plus side: excellent night vision!

>It also goes without saying that she and the British twins hate each
>other with a passion, with every meeting starting with sniping and
>ending in bare-knuckled brawls if nobody stops them. The Brits make
>jokes about how she doesn't have the stamina for a good fight, but she
>retorts that they just can't handle the sort of twists and turns she
>uses.

And yet, you know, they'd miss her if she wasn't there. They've known each other for such a long time...

>The rest of the students like to give her a wide berth, as they never
>know what's going to happen, but they're sure that it's going to
>involve a lot of property damage and some bodily injuries.

Yes - particularly given that she sometimes explodes not at the end of a sprint, but just from being accidentally jostled in the hallway. Or the cafeteria. Do not go near that one when she's eating. In fact, she occasionally explodes for no reason at all, while engaged in customarily-non-volatile activities like sitting at her desk. Even Komet herself isn't entirely sure why that happens.

>She got
>along well with fellow lunatic Ohka, but their relationship
>went out in a bang.

Poor Ohka. Nobody likes to talk about that (particularly Zero, who goes completely stonefaced whenever anyone brings her up).

>>And sometimes
>>they seem to be talking in this strange code that's all acronyms and
>>bizarrely compressed phrases ("Did you hear about COMSUBPAC? He got
>>into another fight with CINCPACFLT and it looks like he might get
>>COMTRANned to SOWESPACFLT LOPU." "Ha ha, he's gonna spend the rest of
>>his career counting CONRATs in Biloxi if he ain't careful").

In fairness to the Grumman sisters, it has just occurred to me that Hurry and Spitfire do this too - lapse into jargon that is incomprehensible to anyone else (although P-51 sometimes pretends to understand it). "Bally Jerry pranged her kite right in the how's-your-father," etc.

>Hellcat's favorite meal? Turkey.

But only if she's shot it herself.

>Definitely the girl who would have a serious samurai vibe going on.
>And would frequently launch into boasts about her superiority and the
>fighting prowess of the Japanese Navy...before Hellcat thumps her on
>the head and she falls over.

Heh, yeah, she and the Grummans would have an oddly good-natured rivalry, all things considered - but in that same vein, I see Zero and P-40 having a strange, strange thing going on. You'd think they would be natural enemies like 109 and Hurry, and they have a head-to-head record almost as long. Add to that the contrast between Zero's rigidly-together soldier/calligrapher/tea ceremonist thing and the fact that 40 usually has a can of beer in one hand and looks like she slept in (or, in fact, partway out of) a barn, and you'd think they would either hate or just dismiss each other, and yet... whenever anybody starts dissing 40's lack of refinement or what a bad dancer she is behind her back, Zero reacts as if she's being insulted, which usually ends poorly for the one doing the insulting if they aren't quick enough with the apology.

>It doesn't help that the other students don't know what to make of
>her, though all agree that she's a bit of an oddball. The Brits
>always regard her wearily, while the Americans try to make friends and
>quickly find that she's always trying to borrow something from them.

Oh hey, that reminds me that I forgot about her best friend, P-39. 39's actually an American, but everyone assumes she's Yak's sister, because she's gone completely native - speaks only Russian, appears to enjoy wearing shapeless brown clothes and eating cold beet soup with sour cream, can quote Lenin.

>Of course, there's also the younger sisters that get much talked
>about, but rarely seen on-screen: Me-262, Meteor, and
>P-80.

They're in the movie. :)

>Me-109 likes to talk about her sister's blazing
>fast speed, but the Americans snidely remark that they've shot her
>down dozens of times.

Me 163 is under the tragically mistaken impression that if she works hard, she'll grow up to be a jet too, and maybe not blow up as often.

>Hurricane likes to talk about her
>sister's ruggedness and numerous kills, to which the Germans retort
>that she never leaves home.

Also, most of those kills are V-1s, and, well, you thought Komet wasn't quite all there.

--G.
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At least where nobody can hear her. Though she, P-40, Zero, Me-109 can sometimes be found sitting around and talking about "the old days," often to snark about being a bunch of "old maids."

>Tiffy would turn up a couple of times over the course of the series to
>give her big sister something else to worry about, and then would
>reappear in the big series finale - having completely gotten her act
>together and changed her name to Tempest.

Though there was the heart-warming episode where she, in the course of trying to find what to do with herself, found out that she and P-47 share an interest in fighter-bombing, leading to them bonding over wrecking havoc on a German bridge.

>"Hey, man, I was in this war before it was a war. I didn't sit
>around on my ass and wait for the Japs to bomb Pearl like some
>people I could mention. Ni hao, you sonsofbitches, here's piss
>in your eye! Speaking of which, we got any more of that cheapass beer
>left?"

Whatever you do, don't say the words "black sheep" where she can hear you.

>True. The Germans probably respect her more, though. I wouldn't put
>it past her to have a tattoo of their nickname for her someplace
>(Gabelschwanz Teufel, "Fork-Tailed Devil").

Zero's got more than a few stories to tell about how she tangled with P-38 and ended up with her honor (and her clothes) in tatters.

>On the plus side: excellent night vision!

There was the night fighting episode where she and Hellcat showed up the other girls, though Spitfire demands a rematch.

>And yet, you know, they'd miss her if she wasn't there. They've known
>each other for such a long time...

Leading the fandom to engage in talk about "unresolved sexual tension" between her and Spitfire.

>Yes - particularly given that she sometimes explodes not at the end of
>a sprint, but just from being accidentally jostled in the hallway. Or
>the cafeteria. Do not go near that one when she's eating. In
>fact, she occasionally explodes for no reason at all, while
>engaged in customarily-non-volatile activities like sitting at her
>desk. Even Komet herself isn't entirely sure why that happens.

They were trying to give her a makeover to reduce that tendency, but the series ends without that storyline resolved. Not that it's stopped the fans from speculating on what would have happened had the series run a little longer, perhaps she might have finally become an ace.

>Poor Ohka. Nobody likes to talk about that (particularly Zero, who
>goes completely stonefaced whenever anyone brings her up).

Bad enough she was doomed from the start, but her dependency on others makes it hard to really like her as a character.

>In fairness to the Grumman sisters, it has just occurred to me that
>Hurry and Spitfire do this too - lapse into jargon that is
>incomprehensible to anyone else (although P-51 sometimes
>pretends to understand it). "Bally Jerry pranged her kite
>right in the how's-your-father," etc.

Yeah, but there's an unspoken understanding between the four, as while you'll sometimes find Wildcat helping herself to a plate of bangers and mash, Spitfire is known to wolf down a hamburger when she thinks nobody is looking.

>Heh, yeah, she and the Grummans would have an oddly good-natured
>rivalry, all things considered - but in that same vein, I see Zero and
>P-40 having a strange, strange thing going on. You'd think
>they would be natural enemies like 109 and Hurry, and they have a
>head-to-head record almost as long. Add to that the contrast between
>Zero's rigidly-together soldier/calligrapher/tea ceremonist thing and
>the fact that 40 usually has a can of beer in one hand and looks like
>she slept in (or, in fact, partway out of) a barn, and you'd think
>they would either hate or just dismiss each other, and yet... whenever
>anybody starts dissing 40's lack of refinement or what a bad dancer
>she is behind her back, Zero reacts as if she's being insulted,
>which usually ends poorly for the one doing the insulting if they
>aren't quick enough with the apology.

And P-40 has been known, when away from prying eyes, to sit down to a cup of tea with Zero.

>Oh hey, that reminds me that I forgot about her best friend,
>P-39. 39's actually an American, but everyone assumes she's
>Yak's sister, because she's gone completely native - speaks only
>Russian, appears to enjoy wearing shapeless brown clothes and eating
>cold beet soup with sour cream, can quote Lenin.

Sort of the relationship that Ichiroku and Ichihachi have, though with a bit more discomfort amongst the other American girls as P-39 is sort of their Typhoon. She wanted to be a fighter, yet never found the support she needed to be one, but when she moved in with her new family found immediate support for tank-busting.

>They're in the movie. :)

The rules got loosened enough that there was one big meet-up, even the younger sisters who never got a chance in the series to show their stuff.

>Me 163 is under the tragically mistaken impression that if she works
>hard, she'll grow up to be a jet too, and maybe not blow up as often.

Me-262 likes to humor her older sister, though she does so from a distance.

>Also, most of those kills are V-1s, and, well, you thought
>Komet wasn't quite all there.

V-1 has a rather blank, yet oddly tragic, personality to her.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Renegade Time Lord

(siiigh) "Corsair! Got another one'a your fans over here."

>>And yet, you know, they'd miss her if she wasn't there. They've known
>>each other for such a long time...
>
>Leading the fandom to engage in talk about "unresolved sexual tension"
>between her and Spitfire.

Well, there was the infamous "Christmas Truce" episode, which only aired once. Needless to say, it wasn't included on the VDC or MultiDisc releases, either.

>Yeah, but there's an unspoken understanding between the four, as while
>you'll sometimes find Wildcat helping herself to a plate of bangers
>and mash, Spitfire is known to wolf down a hamburger when she thinks
>nobody is looking.

Indeed. Also, Hellcat speaks fluent French, which many people find surprising.

>And P-40 has been known, when away from prying eyes, to sit down to a
>cup of tea with Zero.

Speaking of crypto subtext. Oh, the dōjinshi that scene launched.

>>Also, most of those kills are V-1s, and, well, you thought
>>Komet wasn't quite all there.
>
>V-1 has a rather blank, yet oddly tragic, personality to her.

The complete goth package. "We are born to die. What's the point?"

--G.
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And then there was her kid sister V-2, who never actually showed up in either the manga or the anime, but was talked about in hushed terms of fear, as if she were some sort of supernatural creature. You never saw her. You never heard her. Things would explode, and her name would be on the killboards.

The British girls, whom V-2 took the majority of her points off of, were indignant that she was allowed to play at all (and after the '45 season the rules, indeed, were amended to specify you had to meet certain physical requirements in order to compete) but she always had a note from Doctor Von Braun excusing her from mandatory league appearances off the pitch due to "medical reasons." Spitfire still isn't sure V-2 actually exists and isn't some elaborate cheat on the part of the perfidious boche.

The elaborate "V-2 never shows up on-screen" conceit was continued in the short-lived spinoff series Lift/Mass Ratio, which attempted to take the success of Fly Girls, re-contextualize it in the context of the space race, and strip out all the actual fighting to bring us more episodes of girls bickering. V-2 has a small speaking role as the grandmother of both Saturn and Soyuz (which would make Redstone and Vostok sisters, although they never refer to each other as such), and artful camera positioning is used to avoid us ever getting a direct look at her. She's a sad, quiet, fatalistic old woman in L/M R, who misses her sister and her homeland but is nonetheless quietly proud of her new family.

L/M R only ran for a half-season; none of the original showrunners were involved, it had only the most tenuous of connections to Fly Girls to begin with, and it turns out watching Redstone and Vostok yell at each other for 22 minutes actually gets really dull really fast if they can't get into the sky and blow each other up like Spitfire and 109 used to. Saturn and Soyuz showed some signs of becoming more nuanced characters, but we never really found out.

-Merc
Keep Rat

Yes, Ratio was disappointing; even more disappointing is that the other missile-themed Fly Girls spinoff, which did involve the original creators, didn't get picked up. The pilot was never released, either, but unauthorized bootlegs of it turn up at cons from time to time. (Well, the same unauthorized bootleg - the color registration is always wonky in the same way and there's always the same huge, obnoxious time code.)

It was called, perhaps inevitably, Missile Girls, and the premise was similar to Ratio's in that it chronicled the adventures of two missiles derived from concepts pioneered by the Germans during World War II, one American, one Soviet. The difference is that they weren't ballistic missiles, they were cruise missiles, and so their adventures involved a lot of low-altitude zooming around, narrow escapes from anti-missile defenses, and so forth.

In fairness, the premise of Missile Girls probably didn't have legs much longer than Ratio's, since it's not as if cruise missiles actually fight each other either, but the flight scenes in the pilot were a lot more interesting than the ballistic missile action in Ratio, and the characters were much more engaging. Poor Snark, she just tries so hard, you know? And submarine-launched Pyatyorka's conquest of her fear of the ocean depths would've been good for a several-episode arc if the series had been picked up. They could at least have made a decent six-episode OVA out of it. Ah, well. The road not taken.

--G.
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The movie was just weird.

Making it about the jets was controversial enough, as the fandom was roughly divided between those who had been clamoring for years for them to show up (in fact, the fanon designs for P-80 were so standardized and widespread the studio had to bow to popular demand) and those who regarded the appearance of any non propeller-driven aircraft as the vilest of heresies.

On top of that, the whole thing was framed as an extended flashback, with the bracketing scenes set in 1986 (an obvious Top Gun homage) and featuring an aging F-4 educating her students, the about-to-graduate-high-school F-14, F-16, and A-10, about the roles played by her parents and aunts way, way back in the day.

Leaving aside the fact that it was an obvious cash grab (A-10 in particular had always had a cultlike following amongst the serious doujinshi crowd, and they positively leapt at the opportunity to actually buy a figurine of her despite her having all of ten lines of dialogue) and the fact they completely bolluxed up F-4s entire personality (reliable, yes; a martinet and strict, humorless academic, no, are you out of your goddamn minds?) the whole thing had some serious tonal whiplash. P-80, Me 262, and especially Meteor were alternately portrayed as wunderkind, the next generation of the family who are gonna show these old farts what it really means to fly and fight, and as temperamental, unstable nutcases who need to learn from the wisdom of their elders and throttle back some until they do.

While this is... not entirely historically inaccurate as a narrative, it didn't work on the screen at all. Rumors persist to this day of heated rivalries in the writers room and a last-minute uncredited script doctoring by none other than Masamune Shiro himself (lampshaded by the easter egg presence of an utterly anachronistic Bonaparte turret juuuuust visible behind a line of parked Shermans being used by one of the schools Tankery clubs; blink and you'll miss it!) but we may never know the precise details.

The movie is not without selling points; the jet girls had a fluid, interesting combat style visually distinct from their older sisters and parents, reminiscent of Strike Witches but without forcing people to stare at the panty-clad butts of pubescent girls for hours on end. And lord, did they blow the money on animation. But a lot of fans of the franchise were there for the subtle character moments; the rivalry between Spitfire and Me 109, Zero's "last of a dying breed" gung-ho Samurai attitude, the Russian stoicism of Yak-9 and Ilyusha. And they didn't get a lot of that in the movie; instead they got ninety minutes that might as well have been directed by Michael Bay on a good day.

Like I said. Weird.

-Merc
Keep Rat

Except Me 163, of course. Who, give it up where it's due, got one of the best moments in the whole franchise in that movie. You know the one. "Sie haben gefaaaaaallen - und Sie nicht aufstehen können!" Tell me that didn't just make you want to shed tears of pure sugar with delight.

>(A-10 in
>particular had always had a cultlike following amongst the serious
>doujinshi crowd, and they positively leapt at the opportunity
>to actually buy a figurine of her despite her having all of ten lines
>of dialogue)

quietly hides his "battle damaged A-10" maquette

>The movie is not without selling points; the jet girls had a fluid,
>interesting combat style visually distinct from their older sisters
>and parents, reminiscent of Strike Witches but without forcing
>people to stare at the panty-clad butts of pubescent girls for hours
>on end. And lord, did they blow the money on animation.

I recognize that the film is not without its narrative faults, but in both a quality-of-animation and a deep-story-satisfaction sense, I have to say that I'd have paid what I paid for the Blu-Ray if the only things on it were the aforementioned scene with Komet and the extended director's-cut version of Yak vs. 262. "До свидания, довольно птица!"

I will stipulate, however,

>But a lot of
>fans of the franchise were there for the subtle character moments; the
>rivalry between Spitfire and Me 109, Zero's "last of a dying breed"
>gung-ho Samurai attitude, the Russian stoicism of Yak-9 and Ilyusha.

that it was disappointing in this respect. And that I'll probably never forgive them for what they did to 39. Really, guys, you couldn't think of any other way to introduce P-63?

A mixed bag, but the flying scenes are really well-done. And there are persistent rumblings that the show might get a reboot by the same people who did Friendship Is Tactical, who know a thing or two about reviving a moribund but beloved franchise.

--G.
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Sounded like she had a cold. Not a good idea to sneeze as hard as that when your nose is all stoffed up.

(FWIW, I'm laughing way too hard at this entire thread. And I just had a thought about some of the really unusual ones, like the Lippisch P-13a. A cameo in the movie, maybe?)

(Yes, that's the never-got-off-the-drawing-board supersonic ramjet delta-winged interceptor. That was fuelled by coal. Some of the Luftwaffe-1946 designs were weirder than that...)

--
Unable to save the day: File is read-only.

What you did there. I see it.

>(FWIW, I'm laughing way too hard at this entire thread. And I just had
>a thought about some of the really unusual ones, like the Lippisch
>P-13a. A cameo in the movie, maybe?)

Wow, Komet's even crazier younger sister. She'd have appeared in the same crowded briefing-room scene as their cousin Natter and the German team's seldom-seen, deeply eccentric, one-armed intelligence officer, BV 141.

--G.
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<bows> Thankyew. At least there were no comments (that I noticed, anyway) about her obviously being a bleached blonde...

--
Unable to save the day: File is read-only.

The Exchange Student arc at the end of season 2 is one of my favorite parts of the show because it focuses so much on 39. Most fans remember the B-plot where 40 and 51 had to get properly fitted RAF uniforms (because reasons) and kept failing (because fanservice). That one shot of P-51 in a too small RAF uniform sums up pretty much every Fly Girls wall scroll I've seen at a con.

But the A-plot about 39 going from an underachiever on the American side to one of the Russian all-stars? Really some of the best writing in the early seasons. The arc's concluding episode, "Fight On, Kobrastochka!" where 39 and Yak team up against the Germans and totally clown Fw 190 is one of the most heartwarming bits of asskicking in modern anime. :)

--
Mr. Fnord

That's almost certainly the most popular one. And it's good! I like being serviced as much as the next fan. My favorite, though, is much more serious. It's sort of a super-stylized re-envisioning of the key scene from episode 206, "Honor Doesn't Compromise" - the part where Zero, having shot down P-40, protects her from the local Japanese Army unit, because (on the CO's own recognizance, it is strongly implied) they've started killing downed flyers instead of taking them prisoner.

It shows Zero in her dream-sequence samurai-girl outfit - hakama, gi with the sleeves tied up, geta, got her Murder Face on - standing with her sword drawn over 40, who's sprawled unconscious on the ground. The background is just a wall of fire, and the black smoke amid the flames forms the Japanese for "victory without honor has no meaning".

It's a beautiful interpretation of a terrific scene from one of my favorite episodes, and perfectly encapsulates why Zero & 40 are many people's favorite rivals on the show. Including mine, even though, canonically speaking, 40's rival should be Hayabusa, since Zero is a sailor and China-Burma-India was a land campaign. I understand why they made that exception, though. Zero is by far the most popular of the Japanese characters, she's far more engaging than Haya (who is too ruthless and amoral to be likeable even as a so-called villain), and they had to telescope the cast a bit. It's an editorial decision, not a mistake. I'm OK with that.

>But the A-plot about 39 going from an underachiever on the American
>side to one of the Russian all-stars? Really some of the best writing
>in the early seasons. The arc's concluding episode, "Fight On,
>Kobrastochka!" where 39 and Yak team up against the Germans and
>totally clown Fw 190 is one of the most heartwarming bits of
>asskicking in modern anime. :)

I know, right? 190 really shouldn't have gotten on the radio and sung the P-39 song, however funny her accent made it. :)

--G.
Don't give me a P-39
With an engine that's mounted behind
It will tumble and roll
And dig a big hoooooole...
Don't give me a P-39
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I had that as my phone wallpaper for a while. Beyond the the connection to the episode it's just a great piece of art in general. Fly Girls was pretty lucky in that they had some damn good artists working for them on all levels. I've seen a lot of merch for other shows - official merch even! - where you're lucky if the characters are on-model.

(Though if I'm going to be fair, my absolute favorite bit of Fly Girls art isn't official, it's from a doujinshi. The Last Blank Spot on the Map is a prequel doujin about the adventures of DC-3 around the world featuring a bunch of interwar aircraft and more flying boats than you can shake a stick at. There's a double-page spread of DC-3 flying over Macchu Picchu that's just downright amazing. Storytelling's not bad either, sort of a pulp adventure version of the anime: DC-3's a civvie transport so she has to outwit trouble instead of shooting it. Check it out if you haven't read it already.)

>It's a beautiful interpretation of a terrific scene from one of my
>favorite episodes, and perfectly encapsulates why Zero & 40 are many
>people's favorite rivals on the show. Including mine, even though,
>canonically speaking, 40's rival should be Hayabusa, since Zero is a
>sailor and China-Burma-India was a land campaign. I understand why
>they made that exception, though. Zero is by far the most popular of
>the Japanese characters, she's far more engaging than Haya (who is too
>ruthless and amoral to be likeable even as a so-called villain), and
>they had to telescope the cast a bit. It's an editorial decision, not
>a mistake. I'm OK with that.

The manga gets deeper into 40's interactions with Haya and... well, yeah. I'm going to say that I like the chapters where 40 and Hayabusa throw down, it's a right slobberknocker as the man once said, but they made the right call in focusing on the honorable-enemies stuff between 40 and Zero in the anime.

>I know, right? 190 really shouldn't have gotten on the radio and sung
>the P-39 song, however funny her accent made it. :)

I believe they call that a "teachable moment." :)

--
Mr. Fnord

Oh! I've seen that, but it wasn't translated, so I couldn't make head or tail out of it. I did notice one amusing cameo, though, that makes more sense now that I know the premise - one of those flying boats, who appears briefly in the European part of the story, is Porco's plane from Porco Rosso. (You can tell because her Fly Girl form looks just like Fio.)

I'll have to try and track it down again. I can't remember now if the DC-3 who appears in it is actually supposed to be a younger, not-yet-in-the-army version of P-40's pal C-47 from the CBI parts of Fly Girls proper, or if they're different characters. If the latter, then along with Dakota from the RAF team, that would make a record three different Fly Girls all based on the same aircraft, even if one of them is unofficial.

I kinda hope they're the same character, 'cause C-47's one of the best supporting characters on the show. If not for her, P-40 would've starved in the summer of '42, and 40, unlike some prima donna fighter girls I could name, always had the grace to acknowledge it.

--G.
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>I'll have to try and track it down again. I can't remember now if the
>DC-3 who appears in it is actually supposed to be a younger,
>not-yet-in-the-army version of P-40's pal C-47 from the CBI parts of
>Fly Girls proper, or if they're different characters. If the
>latter, then along with Dakota from the RAF team, that would make a
>record three different Fly Girls all based on the same aircraft, even
>if one of them is unofficial.

I'm pretty sure that DC-3 is supposed to be C-47. The art style's not quite the same as the manga/anime, but they're similar enough in design and general attitude. IIRC there's supposed to be a sequel covering DC-3's enlistment but the artist ended up burning out before the first chapter was done. Ah well, sic transit gloria and all that jazz.

--
Mr. Fnord

That scene is a lot of peoples favorite, and it's also why Season Six is so polarizing among fans of Zero.

Well, I say season six. It really started with the finale of season five, which was a deeply ambitious undertaking. "Leyte Gulf! (I Have Returned)" parts one through four (521 through 524, going by their production numbers) was a longer single story than anything else they'd ever done; even such classics as the season three finale ("Tora Tora Tora!") had only ever been two-parters.

And "Leyte Gulf!" was pretty amazing, don't get me wrong. People thought they'd blown the animation budget for the season during "Turkey Shoot" but it turned out, no, they still had gas in the tank after all. And people thought we'd get some resolution on a plotline that had been simmering for a little while; there had been these inexplicable scenes where Zero would exchange glances with Judy, and then Judy would take off and fly away into the sunset while Zero just stood there watching looking grim.

So we get to the tail end of part four of "Leyte Gulf!", right? And Zero ties on her headband (which had by this point become nearly a self-parodying "shit gets real" statement; they had stock footage for it, in fact)... and then slings a two-hundred kilo bomb over her shoulder and throws herself into the air. And it's like... what the hell? You're not a bomber, Zero! What fuckery is this?

Well, it turned out that the fuckery was that Zero was going to attempt to score points by diving directly at targets, cramming an enormous explosive down their maws, and then blowing herself and them sky-high. The Allied league protested this as a gross rules violation, but the points Zero scored from sending St.Lo to the bottom remained on the board.

So that was how season five ended, and Zero's descent into basically complete nihilism continued all through season six. She was... still kinda recognizably the same person, you know? Quieter. More intense. But man, the Zero from "Honor Doesn't Compromise" would never have tried some of the increasingly desperate shit she got up to in the final season. It was a logical character progression; Zero had kinda had the Mark of Doom on her from day one, with her whole "Last of the Breed" samurai persona.

... come to think of it, the Pacific Conference matches were really where Fly Girls put most of their dark shit, weren't they? The European Conference was always kinda... fun, even a little lighthearted. The Blitz storyline from the very first season is practically a comedy, and the Strategic Bomber episodes are unintentionally hilarious a lot of the time. Even when things got real grim for the Axis League later on. Sure, you had Stuka fouling people left and right and it was heavily implied Ilyusha and Yak had some real drinking problems, but they seemed to have saved all the "Hey, remember, this stuff is based on a real war" punches for the eastern hemisphere.

Interesting production choice I'd never really thought of before.

-Merc
Keep Rat

This is probably going to surprise you, but I actually thought that was kind of brilliant. I mean, it's painful to watch, but there's craftsmanship in it, the way they kept her true to herself while her world stopped making sense. What do you do when your three highest priorities are your honor, your country, and victory, in that order, and then your country abandons its honor in the name of victory and is still obviously not going to win?

If you're Hayabusa, those weren't your priorities in the first place and you don't give a shit about anything other than the fact that your side is losing; you just get more and more vicious and underhanded as the war comes down around you and you do that cornered-animal thing. But if you're Zero, there's only one reasonable response: You kill yourself. Except you're one of the stars of an animated show where the named characters never die,* so you can't kill yourself. But you keep trying. Because your honor demands it.

It's bleak as fuck, but it's so well-constructed. And it does ultimately work out, at least in the manga. One of the relatively few things I'm seriously disappointed in the TV series for was the way they built up her internal conflict for the whole season and then didn't show its resolution. In 623 she's grappling with an obviously agonizing decision; in 624 she has her epic duel with Haya, and then just... flies away. In the movie, she's crashing (as it were) on P-40's couch, and there's basically no mention of what happened in between. You have to go and read Volume 41 of the manga to find out. Poorly played, script editors!

Heck, you could get a whole spinoff out of Zero and 40 going freelance, trying to survive and make a difference in the chaotic closing days of the war. Rōnin Zero. I'd watch the hell out of that.

>... come to think of it, the Pacific Conference matches were really
>where Fly Girls put most of their dark shit, weren't they?

Most, but not all. Me 109 had a similar internal struggle to undertake toward the end of the European Conference finals - say from "If You See Aircraft, They Will Be Ours" onward - when the German team was so strapped for resources that she and the other fighters didn't even get to play most of the time and she had plenty of time to contemplate what the school's administration had been up to the whole time. She could ignore it while she was on active duty, but once she's benched for lack of supplies, that doesn't really work any more, so she has her own "what can I do when my country's honor is gone?" thing to confront. You're right, though, that even then they played it more for laughs than Zero's problems ever were. Guessing they weren't willing to explore exactly what Germany did to make 109 question her patriotism, which isn't really a surprise under the circumstances.

--G.
* Well, almost never. Ohka was a special case.
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If memory serves, and it may not, there was at least one doujin in which a supremely fed-up benched Spitfire starts belting out Bloody Orkney. (The link's to the only decent set of lyrics I can find)

Also, did anyone else notice that the English prisoners at the POW camp were Captains Powell and Pressburger? I liked that. I liked that too bloody much.

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.

Accounts differ as to whether it was changed when her mother married Willy Messerschmitt in 1938. (Given that he was her father anyway, it's a bit academic, but you know how the Germans are about paperwork.) It's not entirely certain whether 109 herself really knows any more.

>Ilyusha has always been a bit out of place. The only other one who is
>at all like her is Stuka, and she fuckin' hates Stuka. There
>are two whole volumes devoted to that rivalry, in fact.

In fairness, it's not hard to hate Stuka. Apart from her erratic handling characteristics and homicidal mania, she's one of those women who laugh like that. Ugh.

>She can barely operate as a fighter, but she looks like one, so
>she can't hang out with the bombers either.

Yeah, but nobody wants to hang out with the bombers anyway. They're so boring, especially the four-engined ones. Escort missions, am I right? Hours and hours of tedium and then twenty seconds of panic over some ball-bearing factory in Ost-Arschlecken, Saxony. And then hours and hours of suspense if you survive the panic phase. Will we make it back to England? Or at least to the Channel? Or, hell, I'll even take one of the softer parts of Belgium at this point. Crashing there might be better than listening to Liberator drone on and on and on about her boyfriend the glider tug all the way back to Mendlesham.

No, if Il-2 ever wants to get anywhere socially, she's going to have to start a new club for ground attack aircraft. And then figure out some excuse for not letting Stuka join.

--G.
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This is the prevailing theory, yeah, and it's one I agree with, but I think the larger point has always been that 109 is the one who gets to decide who she is, not the goddamn Allied league.

(The delicious irony, of course, is that much of the drama of the show stems from the Axis league schools, who, lets face it, are the putative villains, trying to impose their vision of the sport on the Allied league schools.)

>>Ilyusha has always been a bit out of place. The only other one who is
>>at all like her is Stuka, and she fuckin' hates Stuka. There
>>are two whole volumes devoted to that rivalry, in fact.
>
>In fairness, it's not hard to hate Stuka. Apart from her erratic
>handling characteristics and homicidal mania, she's one of those women
>who laugh like that. Ugh.

Her sister is all right, tho. Ju 88 isn't as flashy, but she's the ultimate utility player and holds the unique distinction of having taken kills off the Allied league in every mode of competition. Including torpedo bombing, of all things, which the Axis league in general sucked at and which the German girls had no demonstrated prior experience in.

Sadly, they were going for "dependable, strong, reliable" and ended up with "boring and stale." Remember her spotlight episode? It was 22 minutes of Ju 88 concentrating on the fundamentals and achieving solid-but-not-flashy victories before getting shot down by P-50. Her manga chapters were the same way. She eventually turned into "person who stops Stuka from doing ever-more-insane-shit" which was necessary, I suppose, but not that much more interesting.

>>She can barely operate as a fighter, but she looks like one, so
>>she can't hang out with the bombers either.
>
>Yeah, but nobody wants to hang out with the bombers anyway. They're
>so boring, especially the four-engined ones. Escort missions,
>am I right?

Don't forget the arrogance that comes with knowing you provide financial backing to the entire rest of the league. Sure, the hardcore propellerheads will always be all about the fighters (and the fighters are, far and away, the most popular characters) but in-universe, the Bombing Meets pull insane levels of attendance and command significant alumni attention and donations. Liberator is an okay person despite that, just a colossal boor, but god, B-17? She thought she was so damn special, and you couldn't even call her on it because she kind of was. The way she expected P-50 to always walk behind her and to her right in the "escort position" even when not on the pitch is the kind of thing that spawned a million fanfics of P-50 teaming up with 109 "just this once" to throw a match.

Having said that...

I'm sure you've seen the OVA starring the Pacific Conference torpedo and dive bombers, and I'm sure you hated it, because it was a tragedy that didn't present as one at first glance, but it has a special place in my heart. Val and Kate just... they tried so hard, you know? Constantly shot down, beaten up, regarded with contempt and loathing by their adversaries, treated as a goddamned nuisance even by their teammate Zero (her shrieking tirade at them from her hospital bed after she took a lot of injuries creating an opening for them in a match they then proceeded to blow is heartbreaking) they always were prepared to fuel up and get out there and play their hardest, even with shitty equipment and no support. Even the last-minute addition of Jill to their roster can't save them.

Their American adversaries ostensibly have a more upbeat storyline, being the ones who win in the end, of course, but Dauntless is a figure of wasted potential, only really kept around to mentor Helldiver and Avenger; her old injuries keep her from being a real contender and everyone knows it. Helldiver senses this on some level, but Avenger, who runs up an ungodly score against Japan, is completely oblivious.

At least, she is until the coda, where they're at the finals in Korea in the early fifties, when changes to the league rules eliminated torpedo bombing as a competitive category. Demonstrations only from now in. In thirty years nobody will even remember what her medals are for.

That OVA was by far the finest of the bomber-related storylines. Probably because the fast-attack bombers are just inherently more interesting than the big girls, you know?

>No, if Il-2 ever wants to get anywhere socially, she's going to have
>to start a new club for ground attack aircraft. And then figure out
>some excuse for not letting Stuka join.

The ground attack aircraft keep pretending to be fighters and running off to hang out with the cool girls, is the problem. Ilyusha is arguably better at blowing shit up than any of them, but the only one she can take in a dogfight is Stuka, and she'll do that anyway regardless of social consequences. :)

-Merc
Keep Rat

She had two! She shared the other one with Me 410 and Do 217, admittedly, and 217 kind of stole the show with the Fritz-X scene, but still, "Twins for the Win" is one of the best Axis episodes of the whole series, and 88 was front and center for most of it.

>I'm sure you've seen the OVA starring the Pacific Conference torpedo
>and dive bombers, and I'm sure you hated it, because it was a
>tragedy that didn't present as one at first glance, but it has a
>special place in my heart.

Actually, my biggest problem with that one wasn't that - I didn't like it, but I have to admit it was well-done, for the most part - it was...

>their teammate Zero (her shrieking tirade at them from her hospital
>bed after she took a lot of injuries creating an opening for them in a
>match they then proceeded to blow is heartbreaking)

... this. It was so jarringly out of character. I mean, that Zero would give them hell for that isn't, but the way she did it. Zero does not shriek. Or use words like "dipstick" other than in their technical context. The animation for that OVA was done by a different studio, and I've always sort of hoped that they thought they were drawing Hayabusa there (although, yes, I know that's Zero's voice). You'd expect that kind of behavior from her. From Zero it's just... wrong. That said, I like the fanon "No-Prize" explanation that she was having a bad reaction to her pain meds. :)

>That OVA was by far the finest of the bomber-related storylines.

I will always have a special place for "Mosquito Plays It Straight", but then, I will always have a special place for Mosquito, full stop. Rrrowr.

>Probably because the fast-attack bombers are just inherently more
>interesting than the big girls, you know?

Except for "Target: Edersee Dam!", I will have to agree with you there.

--G.
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"Mosquito Plays It Straight" is gut-bustingly hilarious, being based on the original 4-komas that inexplicably launched a whole franchise about girls who are also airplanes, but I'm not sure it can be said to have a "storyline" per se.

Then again, it didn't really need one. Oh my god, the expression on 109s face when she finds Mosquito's camera and suddenly everything makes sense, am I right? The frame where you can literally see her soul snap in two was my desktop for awhile.

I think this is illustrative of our different approaches to the series, Ben, as my favorite Mosquito story isn't actually part of the canon proper, nor is it at all funny; it was that PSA they did for kids with body issues. It's set in the 50s, and features A-1, who is deeply, deeply insecure about her role on the team and doesn't understand why she has a propeller and these... stubby wings, when everyone around her is all sleek and has a big nosecone up front.

And Mosquito sits down with her, and talks about how she got a lot of shit for her body too, back in the day, but she has a fuckin' Victoria Cross now and the respect of those of her peers who really matter.

I teared up when Mosquito called A-1 "Spad" at the end. Oh my god, the feels.

>>Probably because the fast-attack bombers are just inherently more
>>interesting than the big girls, you know?
>
>Except for "Target: Edersee Dam!", I will have to agree with you
>there.

Ah, yes, the only decent part of the "Target: <X>!" series of episodes. Man, remember "Target: Ploesti!", hampered by stunningly haphazard production values, and "Target: Hiroshima!" which featured the Allied team using a completely nonstandard piece of equipment and a rules loophole to run the score up to insane levels?

Good times. For some value of good.

-Merc
Keep Rat

Huh. I don't think I've ever seen that one. It sounds really sweet, though. I bet Mosquito made tea.

My favorite A-1 moment is the bit in that really late manga volume where some of the vets (as they are by then) are watching the new kids do their thing in testing, and when she takes out the whole simulated tank platoon, P-47 and Ilyusha say "I taught her that." in the same speech balloon, then look at each other like, "Homey says what now?"

>Ah, yes, the only decent part of the "Target: <X>!" series of
>episodes. Man, remember "Target: Ploesti!", hampered by stunningly
>haphazard production values, and "Target: Hiroshima!" which featured
>the Allied team using a completely nonstandard piece of equipment and
>a rules loophole to run the score up to insane levels?

There's a worse one than either of those, but you may have scrubbed it from your memory: "Target: Schweinfurt Again!" Yes, it was one of the biggest downers of the entire series, but beyond that, it was boring. How does a story manage to be tragic and boring at the same time? Just like that, that's how.

--G.
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Also, it was goofy, but I always liked how in the movie they used a big honkin' white moose in the daydream sequence. I felt proud of figuring out it was meant to be a representation of the Avro Arrow, but then again, it was pretty bloody obvious.

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.

It took me actual digging to figure out why Mossie's always eating cookies. Digging! My plane geekery is inferior to the point of uselessness...

"Target: Dresden!" isn't even an episode, it's friggin' revenge fanfic for "Angriffsziel Coventry" way back in season 1.

--G.
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I knew that that was coming, and I did nothing to prevent it.

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.

I wouldn't call it a rules loophole. It was pretty well established by that point in the series that technical innovation was allowed. Granted, this was a pretty extreme case, but within the spirit.

My main point here s to observe that if you think "Target: Edersee Dam!" was the best of the Target eps, that would mean you didn't like "Target: Nagasaki!" Which I think is possibly the best plot bait and switch in the entire series. Did you just not watch it because you were expecting a repeat of "Target: Hiroshima!"? It's the sort of episode I thought you'd enjoy.

<SUMMARY SPOILERS!>

For those who aren't going to watch it, most of T:N! has nothing to do with the actual match. From the episode opening up to the match in the last act (which is indeed a virtual repeat of the T:H! match, with some Allied League fumbling) is all about the Axis Japan team and their tragic attempts to come to grips with the T:N! match and losing the season. Up until this point much of the team and the fans have been able to deny the upcoming loss (it's pretty clear to us they would have eventually, but denial is more than a river in Egypt), but the T:H! match result underlines it...at least for some of the team. It's played much like the down side of a Shakespearian tragedy and all the characterizations mesh perfectly into a ball of anger, denial, and bargaining. It's pretty heartbreaking to see these well loved characters, even the late in the war crazy Zero, backstabbing and infighting.

Once you see "Target: Nagasaki!" it become much clearer why "Target: Hiroshima!" was structured the way it was: to provide contrast. The Allied American team, after a great deal of panic early on, is now collected and thinking ahead. The flashback sequences in T:H! to their early days, contrast with the almost robotic way they play the T:H! match. The following T:N! ep shows the Japanese team cracking under the strain, and engaging in internal conflict...right up until the Americans do it again. And it all leads up to the double whammy ending with the coach and the team owner getting BOTH the news of the T:N! match AND the Soviet initiated match in Manchuria pretty much simultaneously.

-VR
"Truth … is much too complicated to allow anything but approximations."
"They copied all they could follow, but they couldn't copy my mind,
And I left 'em sweating and stealing a year and a half behind."

Oh hey, I just happened to think - this is true, but (unlike the producers of the TV series, admittedly) we should keep in mind that she went on to have a very long and distinguished career in civilian life. A lot of the bomber girls found success and fulfillment - many of them, including Avenger, as firefighters, which is among the world's noblest professions - after the state-of-the-art of aerial warfare changed and left them behind. I don't think it's fair to call that tragic.

--G.
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Not against other airplanes. Pretty good at strafing unarmed villages in North Africa, but there's not a lot of that on Fly Girls.

Spoilers, I guess: You know how that one team didn't even rate any screen time in Girls und Panzer? That was the Italian team. That was not a coincidence either. :)

--G.
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And they even added in an Italian team captain to show they didn't forget about them. (Poor Anchovy. I was going to reference that in my last post, but I couldn't figure out how to put my train of thought down <without it being inside a bracket> inside a parenthetical, which would look silly).

"This is probably a stupid question, but . . ."

Everyone thinks Martlet was Wildcat in a clever disguise, but the showrunners insisted at ManiaCon 2402 that she was a different character.

--G.
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-Merc
Keep Rat

I think that may have been in the manga. It ran for a lot longer than the TV series and got into some serious character proliferation in the last few volumes (presumably because it's a lot cheaper to introduce new characters in print than it is to design, animate, and voice them on TV).

--G.
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Man, if I were him, I would get rid of that thing real fast. Corwin is transitively married to Anthy now, and I don't care if that thing is buried at the bottom of a dragon hoard somewhere in Alfheim... one day, he and Utena are gonna come home after a high-speed chase, and Anthy is going to say "Goodness, you two look tired. I've turned down the bed, why don't you have a nice nap?"

And they'll be like, yeah, that sounds like a great idea. And they'll go up to do just that, and the dakimakura will be there. On Corwin's side of the bed.

And he'll never know how she did it. Ever.

-Merc
Keep Rat

If you know what that implies, then I hope you get the help you need soon. =]

---
"She's old, she's lame, she's barren too, // "She's not worth feed or hay, // "But I'll give her this," - he blew smoke at me - // "She was something in her day." -- Garnet Rogers, Small Victory

FiMFiction.net: we might accept blatant porn involving the cast of My Little Pony but as God is my witness we have standards.

I can do that!

Well, no, okay, I can't do that - I'm not an artist - but I've got a con coming in just under 72 hours, so post some nice detailed descriptions & I'll see what I can do. No promises, queues limited etc. you know how this goes.

--
Mr. Fnord

That's the character design, but she shows up fairly prominently in the 'Shadows' episodes... I remember 'Shadow Dances' giving her a visually spectacular moonlight duel with He 219, for instance. For some reason, Avalon TV keeps scheduling them at weird timeslots, though, so you might've just been unlucky and not caught them on.

Although I have to admit that my favorite member of the night-fighter subcast is Beaufighter. *cough* And, yes, for character-design reasons, even if there's something irresistibly hilarious about a girl her height slinging around loads nearly as large as P-47 manages.

I also deeply approve of Beau's 'Enh, I have no clue what I'm doing but let's give it a go' attitude, and think her travel scrapbook is hilarious.

(...I suppose I had better explain for the non-viewers. Beau is a very short and compact sort of girl, reflecting the stubby proportions of the aircraft that inspired her, and also reflects the prominence of the airframe's twin radial engines by being the bustiest recurring cast member. Pity about the horrible Heidi braids.)

That said, He 219 is also gorgeous, even if the 'ultra-slender' look usually doesn't do it for me and her perfectionist streak is occasionally grating.

-----

"V, did you do something foolish?"

"Yes, and it was glorious."

Always been partial to P-70 myself, mainly for her habit of forgetting that she's not a bomber any more and only thinking of it partway through attack runs, or when Hellcat calls her on it. "Uh, Havoc, what are you doing?"

--G.
Also, Hellcat is adorable in her completely-anachronistic-but-you-get-the-idea NVGs.
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Christ on a bike, I forgot about the night fighters. What's wrong with me.

I'll have something real special in the next couple days... I hope.

-Merc
Keep Rat

Was just thinking of that scene with Hellcat and Corsair, where they were getting ready for a late night patrol. Corsair puts a bit of eye black on and hands the stick off to Hellcat without looking so she can check her equipment, only to look back a second later and find that Hellcat's put so much around her eyes that she looks like a raccoon. Just the look Corsair gives her as she snatches back the stick makes the scene.

--------------------------
CdrMike, Renegade Time Lord

"... Swabbies."

--G.
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