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Subject: "Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 1" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Gryphonadmin
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Oct-03-01, 04:04 AM (EDT)
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"Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 1"
 
   NOTE: Random information from the brain files, no doubt jarred loose by the fact that I didn't think the premiere of Enterprise totally sucked.

BABYLON PROJECT GALACTIC DATABASE
TEXT DATA EXTRACTION SEARCH: STARSHIP DESIGN
HISTORICAL DATA, "STARFLEET STYLE"
SEARCH COMPLETE: APRIL 25, 2405

During the Golden Age of the Wedge Defense Force, WDF executive officer Benjamin "Gryphon" Hutchins took up warp-driven starship engineering basically for something to do during one of the long boring bits. (That, and on a dare from warp-drive inventor Zefram Cochrane, with whom he and Kei got roaring drunk one night in 2097 and who bet Gryphon 150,000 credits he couldn't design a ship that could crack Warp Factor 7 on his first attempt.)

The WDF didn't use warp-driven starships at the time; its relatively small fleet were all based exclusively on the very exotic, very expensive overtechnology acquired from mysterious, possibly extradimensional sources by Lord Wolfgang Amadeus von Fahrvergnugen, the WDF's patron and benefactor. Gryphon founded a small design bureau, GZK Enterprises, and started fooling around with a few ideas.

The First Attempt

It took him over a hundred years, by which time Cochrane had totally forgotten about the entire incident, to produce his first completed design, and another twenty to get around to using the capacities of the WDF's Utopia Planitia Naval Shipyards to construct a prototype. That experimental vessel, designated simply WX-1 and somewhat irreverently nicknamed Love Missle [sic] F1-11 after the Sigue Sigue Sputnik song Gryphon, Cochrane and Kei had been listening to when the bet was made, first flew on August 12, 2225, and though just barely, it did break Warp 7, achieving a maximum speed of Warp 7.035 on its first full-power trial flight.

Zefram Cochrane instructed his fellow observers to paint him green and call him a golf course; then he coughed up Gryphon's cr150,000; then he paid another million for the ship itself, which he still uses as his personal yacht today.

Gryphon went on to design a second, more practical ship, much larger but rather more conservatively powered than the staryacht-sized Love Missle F1-11, as a thought exercise toward making warpships, until now primarily curiosities in a universe full of hyperdriven civilian ships and fold-capable superdreadnaughts, commercially and militarily viable.

The basic problem was that warp drive required a tremendous amount of energy to power it - much more than was required by the conventional Corellian hyperdrive of the day - and the power requirements increased exponentially with the size of the vessel. This meant that, with the limitations of the fusion reactors of the day, only very small ships like the WDF's Hyper Valkyrie-class superfighters could use it; anything much larger, and the reactor requirement for powering the vessel would be too big for the vessel to carry, causing an irresolvable chicken-egg problem in the drive calculations. Love Missle F1-11, roughly the size of a Saturn V ballistic missile, was about the biggest ship that could be driven by warp drive, and that had required the absolute top of the line in fusion plants to make it viable; it was much too expensive to be put into general production or service.

(The WDF's primary source of starship power in those days, the stupendously powerful Reflex furnace, is an overtechnology artifact, incompatible with the energy needs of warp drive; Gryphon chased this blind alley for at least ten years before giving up on it as irreconcilable.)

Enterprise: The First True Warpship

One day in 2262, while thinking about an unrelated thing, Gryphon suddenly realized how to surmount the warp power problem. Over the next ten years, he and Cochrane developed the now-familiar antimatter intermix system, and in 2278, GZK and UPNS launched their next prototype, NX-01. In this historic ship, all the elements of Gryphon's warpship design conventions can clearly be seen - the saucer-shaped main hull, the warp coil nacelles arched aft on graceful pylons, the sweeping, clean lines of the whole ship. All his subsequent designs, which the exception of his sole overtechnology-type design (Confederation class, 2385), would echo NX-01's revolutionary style.

That ship got a somewhat more respectful nickname - Enterprise - and though it could make only Warp 5 at top speed, it was in all respects an admirable, practical, and sturdy vessel. Under the command of WDF Lieutenant Commander Jonathan Archer, Enterprise proved the viability of the anti-matter-powered warp-driven starship as a space exploration and battle platform. By the end of the 2280s, the United Galactica Navy was expressing serious interest in GZK, requesting a cooperative venture into the exploration of the warpship concept for military and commercial applications.

This survey, and Gryphon's designs for the next generation of warpships, were well underway when, in 2288, the WDF collapsed and Gryphon was forced into hiding. Dispossessed and marked for extermination by the collapse of the Wedge Defense Force, NX-01 Enterprise vanished into the Outer Rim. No one knows what became of her; some maintain that, like the WDF's other main exploration and patrol ship outside the legendary SDF-17, WDF Righteous Indignation, she was seized from within by moles in the employ of GENOM Corporation, but the crew were not fortunate enough to seize the ship back from its hijackers, as the Indignation's managed to. Perhaps, military historians muse, Captain Archer self-destructed his ship rather than let it be taken. Perhaps they merely fled to the Rim to avoid the cauldron the inner galaxy had suddenly become, and some unrelated misfortune befell them in that dangerous part of the universe. It is possible NX-01's fate may never be known.

Back in the United Galactica, the warpship program languished for over a decade, until the re-establishment of shipbuilding operations at Utopia Planitia in 2299. At that time, the three designs Gryphon was working on at the time of the WDF's disintegration were found in the databanks of GZK's UPNS offices. Two were nearly complete; the third was unbuildable with current drive technologies, its completed spaceframe design bearing a note reading, in part, "too big for current drives, but someday... "

CONTINUED IN PART 2

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2 Gryphonadmin Oct-03-01 1
     RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 3 Gryphonadmin Oct-03-01 2
         RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 4 Gryphonadmin Oct-03-01 3
             RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 4 Nathan Oct-03-01 4
             Blue Riband? Kitsune9tl Oct-03-01 5
                 RE: Blue Riband? trussteam Oct-03-01 7
                     RE: Blue Riband? Gryphonadmin Oct-03-01 8
                         RE: Blue Riband? Wedge Oct-03-01 16
                             RE: Blue Riband? Gryphonadmin Oct-03-01 17
                                 RE: Blue Riband? Croaker Oct-07-01 31
                                     RE: Blue Riband? Gryphonadmin Oct-07-01 32
             RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 4 Astynax Oct-04-01 19
                 RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 4 Gryphonadmin Oct-04-01 22
     RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2 Berrik_NeueZiel Oct-03-01 6
         RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2 Gryphonadmin Oct-03-01 9
             RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2 Mephronmoderator Oct-03-01 10
             RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2 remandeteam Oct-03-01 11
                 RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2 Sinapus Oct-03-01 12
                     RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2 Gryphonadmin Oct-03-01 14
                         RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2 Sinapus Oct-03-01 18
                         RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2 Matrix Dragon Oct-04-01 23
         RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2 Laudre Oct-03-01 15
  RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF Gryphonadmin Oct-03-01 13
     RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF Star Ranger4 Oct-04-01 20
         RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF Gryphonadmin Oct-04-01 21
             RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF Astynax Oct-04-01 24
                 RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF Star Ranger4 Oct-05-01 25
                     RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF Gryphonadmin Oct-05-01 26
                         RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF Star Ranger4 Oct-06-01 27
                         RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF Zenigame Oct-06-01 28
                             RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF Gryphonadmin Oct-06-01 29
                                 RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF Redneck Oct-06-01 30

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Gryphonadmin
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1. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Oct-03-01 AT 03:53 PM (EDT)

DATA EXTRACT CONTINUES

Constitution and Miranda

The two viable designs found by the United Galactica team in GZK's abandoned databank at Zeta Cygni were labeled "1700" and "1800". It has since been revealed that these were GZK internal code numbers for the spaceframe designs, arbitrarily assigned by Gryphon. The UG Navy took them as the hull numbers for the first ships in the two unnamed classes to be built, which is where the hull-numbering tradition for all subsequent ships in what has come to be known as the "Starfleet Style" originated.

NX-1700, given the name UGS Constitution by the UGN, was launched on October 21, 2305. The 1700 series thus became the Constitution class. After completing her fitting-out and shakedown cruise, the ship was officially adopted for front-line use by the United Galactica Navy, at which point her hull-number prefix was changed to "NCC" (expansion unknown; most of the UG Navy's records were lost in the civil war of 2361-2365).

Thirteen Constitution-class starships were constructed in the initial production run. With a maximum speed of Warp Factor 8 and the strongest shields and weapons yet installed on a warpship, they were the most advanced starships in the galaxy, and the UG Navy assigned them to exploration and combat patrol, where they distinguished themselves greatly - especially the second ship produced, UGS Enterprise (NCC-1701), which, incredibly, is still in service today.

NX-1800, a smaller, lighter-weight, slightly faster starship, was given the name Miranda. The Miranda class provided the backbone of the UG Navy and its replacement, the United Federation of Planets Starfleet, throughout the remainder of the period now known as the Exile. Though never as famous or as flashy as their larger brethren, the 1800-series ships nevertheless served with distinction and helped the UG and UFP keep the galaxy safe in the WDF's absence.

In 2373, the now-USS Enterprise was given an extensive refit/upgrade devised largely by her chief engineering officer, Starfleet Commander Montgomery Scott. This upgrade altered the capabilities and appearance of the ship so radically that some felt it should be named the class ship of an entirely new class, but cooler heads prevailed, and the new type was designated Constitution class, Mark VIII. (Some publications still refer to this type of ship, erroneously, as the Enterprise class.) The Mark VIII could nudge close to a top speed of Warp Factor 10 - the record was 9.84 - on a good day. In those days, Warp 10 was considered a barrier not unlike the sound barrier in the early days of aeronautics, a magic figure beyond the power-mass ratios of warp-driven ships.

The following year, a similar upgrade program was implemented on the Miranda class, beginning with USS Reliant (NCC-1864), with similar positive results. Ships of that type are designated Miranda class, Mark IV (except for the publications which use the Enterprise-class nomenclature, which call it the Reliant class.)

Excelsior

In 2375, Zefram Cochrane cracked the power problem which had kept Gryphon's third design, labeled "2000" (no one knows what happened to the 1900 series) in the WDF officer's old notes, from flying all these years. His refinement, nicknamed "transwarp drive" for no apparent reason by Starfleet's marketing department, enabled the construction of NX-2000, USS Excelsior, which promptly distinguished itself as the most effective starship yet. The new ship shattered the myth of the Warp 10 barrier on its first full-power trial run with Cochrane at the helm, putting space behind her at the unbelievable speed of Warp Factor 12.142 and easily wresting the unofficial "Blue Riband" - the notional badge of honor for the fastest warpship in the galaxy - from Enterprise.

By 2380, the year of Gryphon's trial and exoneration, transwarp drive had been adapted to the Constitution and Miranda classes as well (Mark IX and V, respectively). The Constitution class's spaceframe showed its incredible, still-unplumbed potential in the first Mark IX tests, as the newly-upgraded Enterprise smashed Excelsior's speed record with a full-power run at Warp 12.78. The two ships would carry on an unofficial contest over the Blue Riband for the next five years.

His name cleared, Gryphon reactivated the GZK labs in full as part of his grand scheme for rebuilding and revitalizing the WDF for the great clash with GENOM he knew was coming. He recruited Cochrane and his team from Starfleet Labs and threw himself into the creation of newer and better warpships, based on all he had learned in an alternate universe where they were very common.

CONTINUED IN PART 3

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Gryphonadmin
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Oct-03-01, 05:10 AM (EDT)
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2. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 3"
In response to message #1
 
   DATA EXTRACT CONTINUES

Alaska

Gryphon's first design after re-establishing GZK in 2380 was more of an exercise in brushing the dust off his design and construction-supervision skills after his long absence than an effort to revolutionize shipbuilding. The Alaska class (WDF Alaska, NCC-2250, August 9, 2381) was basically a scaled-up, powered-up Excelsior, the first warpship to qualify for battlecruiser (light battleship) classification by the WDF's standards (though the Excelsior class was listed by Starfleet as a battleship, by WDF standards it was merely a super-heavy cruiser). Transwarp-driven and heavily shielded, they were slower than the Excelsior and Constitution Mark IX classes, but quite capable in combat.

More importantly, they set the stage for the next major improvement in warpship design, which was to emerged from Gryphon and Cochrane's brains during the celebratory dinner for the founding of the city of New Avalon in 2382.

Iowa

The Alaska class was pushing the upper envelope of practical mass and power for a transwarp-driven ship, just as the Constitution Mark VIII had for conventional warp drive. If warpships were to achieve battleship size and power, another advancement in drive technology was needed, and in the fall of 2382, Zefram Cochrane provided it. His uprated warp technology was dubbed "ultrawarp" by the Warp Propulsion Technologies team at UPNS, and in 2383 Gryphon, amid all his other duties, started designing a ship around it.

That ship, NX-2310, was launched on May 10, 2385, and was named Iowa after the last, fastest, and most capable class of battleship fielded by the United States surface navy in the 20th century. The first starship powered by Cochrane's new ultrawarp drive, Iowa hit a top speed of Warp Factor 15.02 in her top-speed trials and set a new benchmark for warpship combat capabilities. Capable of slugging it out with an overtechnology-based Yamato-class battleship, but much more mission-flexible, the Iowa class redefined warpships just as the Constitution Mark VIII had before it.

Yet the venerable Constitution wasn't out of tricks yet. The following year, the ultrawarp-driven Mark X debuted (Enterprise again, now belonging to the WDF, since Starfleet had dismissed the Constitution class as "outmoded" in 2381) and promptly snatched the Blue Riband back from Iowa with a record run at Warp 16 flat. Though clearly incapable of engaging the sorts of enemies the Iowa class could take on, the Constitution Mark X and its accompanying Miranda- and Excelsior-class revisions, the Mark VI and Mark II respectively, remain highly viable platforms for their classes, despite the fact that their basic spaceframe designs (and some of the actual spaceframes) are now approaching the century mark in age. The Alaska class fell out of production; though the existing ships were upgraded to ultrawarp, the resulting ship was so similar in performance to the Iowa class that no more Alaskas were needed.

For no reason anyone can determine, the Federation Starfleet refers to their Iowa-class vessels as belonging to the Ambassador class. Historians point to this as the first overt sign that the honeymoon between Starfleet and the reborn WDF ended early.

CONCLUDED IN PART 4

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Gryphonadmin
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Oct-03-01, 05:31 AM (EDT)
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3. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 4"
In response to message #2
 
   LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-01 AT 03:25 AM (EST)

DATA EXTRACT CONTINUES

Divergence

Gryphon left the Wedge Defense Force in 2392 to devote himself to the founding and establishment of the Interstellar Police Organization (Experts of Justice), as part of the build-up to the launch of the Babylon Project by MegaZone in 2394. Zefram Cochrane retired for the seventh time, declaring his intention to fly Love Missle F1-11 to the Outer Rim and search for clues to the mystery of the vanished NX-01. At that time, GZK remained equipment supplier to the WDF, Confederate Freespacers Mercenary Fleet, and Federation Starfleet, producing new-construction ships in all four active starship classes for its customers.

Eventually, Starfleet requested a new design, and in 2400, GZK's new design team responded.

Galaxy

The Earth Alliance's military organ, Earthforce, was the prime mover behind the Federation Starfleet's request for a new starship design. Starfleet's high concentration of Earthforce officers wanted a ship that outstripped the Iowa class in every respect - size, speed, protective strength, weapons load - a ship which would project the power and grandeur of the Alliance, over which the Federation was becoming more and more of a thin veneer of internationalism, into the galaxy. With that in mind, the new class was named Galaxy, and the prototype, NX-10000, first flew on March 12, 2401.

The Galaxy class was a bit of a disappointment to Starfleet. Though it was larger, better-defended, and more heavily armed than the Iowa class, it did fall short of one of the initial specification's requirements - the ZGK team, lacking Gryphon and Cochrane, simply could not make the ship faster than its predecessor. USS Galaxy topped out at Warp Factor 14.511, and nothing the GZK or Starfleet engineers could do would make it go any faster. Simulated battles indicated that a Galaxy-class ship might outgun and significantly outmass an Iowa, but would probably lose a battle to one anyway on the basis of maneuverability.

In addition, the modern warpship's originator, asked by a Network 23 reporter to comment on his old design house's new effort after Galaxy's unveiling, remarked, "That's the ugliest ship I've ever seen. The man who designed that saucer section should be flogged." Relations between Starfleet and the Experts of Justice, already showing signs of strain, became noticeably cooler at that point.

Disappointments notwithstanding, Starfleet ordered six Galaxy-class ships, the last of which, as a direct snub to the Wedge Defense Force (in whose Tactical Fleet the UG Navy's original Enterprise, good old NCC-1701, was still operational), they gave the hull number NCC-1701-A and named Enterprise.

Meanwhile, though offended by the Galaxy class's clumsy attempt to top his finest creation and its aesthetic shortcomings, Gryphon was too busy to rebut his old design bureau's statement for some time, until the repeated destruction of the under-construction Babylon Stations spurred Gryphon to create the Experts of Justice Special Projects Division in 2402. He called Cochrane back from his sojourn on the Rim, headhunted WDF chief engineer Nadia Davion into the SPD, pulled in his old friend and original WDF chief engineer Robert Mandeville, and the four of them created a whole new class of ultrawarp ship, for the first time fusing aspects of overtechnology into the design.

Sovereign

Gryphon unveiled his new starship design in October 2404 bearing the hull number NX-04462 (deliberately starting with a "0" to mock Starfleet's arbitrary jump to 5 digits) and the name EJS Challenger. Despite this, his notes and the SPD's internal documentation all refer to the vessel as belonging to the Sovereign class. This was not the first time the class and lead-ship names had failed to line up on one of Gryphon's projects (the only Confederation-class carrier ever built was WDF Concordia), and as then, so now - he refused to explain the discrepancy.

At any rate, Challenger proved to be a most exceptional ship. Equipped with technologies so secret that the ship was built in total secrecy and only shown to the galaxy at large once its hull was entirely complete, it appears to be powered by a variant of ultrawarp drive, but all details of its power and drive systems are classified above top secret. Its maneuvering and fighting capabilities are also kept hidden; though Challenger seized the Blue Riband from Enterprise with a record run at Warp Factor 17.119 on December 9, 2404, it is rumored that the ship was not performing at the top of its capacity.

What is known about the Sovereign class is that, at 2,215 feet in length, it is the longest warpship ever constructed, 109 feet longer than the Galaxy class (though that class outmasses it by nearly 1.3 million tons). Sleeker, swifter and much more maneuverable than the larger Starfleet vessel, the Sovereign class lays claim to the classification "dreadnaught", and at nearly the size and possibly with greater firepower than a Victory-class Star Destroyer, it very possibly deserves it.

At the present time, only one Sovereign-class starship exists, and no more are under construction; the SPD is a small force and has not the personnel to crew another such vessel. EJS Challenger is currently under Gryphon's command and assigned to patrol the Epsilon Eridani region, where the fifth Babylon station is nearing completion.

END OF DATA EXTRACT
THANK YOU FOR USING THE
BABYLON PROJECT GALACTIC DATABASE

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Nathan
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Oct-03-01, 06:56 AM (EDT)
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4. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 4"
In response to message #3
 
   Whee! Technobabble.

^_^

Iluvit.

>END OF DATA EXTRACT
>THANK YOU FOR USING THE
>BABYLON PROJECT GALACTIC DATABASE

Oh myyyyy... Well, I suppose I should have known it was coming.

*does the 'Mihoshi Happy Dance'* This is gonna rock! This is gonna ROCK!

Blessed be.
Nathan Baxter
(Well, what do you expect from someone who likes David Weber...)

-----
Iä! Iä! Moe fthagn!


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Kitsune9tl
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Oct-03-01, 02:15 PM (EDT)
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5. "Blue Riband?"
In response to message #3
 
   What's a Riband?
And Why would one be blue?

Nice read...
Is there an Experts of Justice Arc that I've missed?


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trussteam
Member since Aug-9-13
Oct-03-01, 03:07 PM (EDT)
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7. "RE: Blue Riband?"
In response to message #5
 
   >What's a Riband?

Main Entry: rib·and
Pronunciation: 'ri-b[schwa]nd
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, alteration of riban
Date: 15th century
: a ribbon used especially as a decoration

Webster.com (and/or dictionary.com) is your friend.

>And Why would one be blue?

Because blue ribbons are traditional for prize winners?

Because my hair has projected subliminal "Blue is Good" messages into Gryph's mind?

Sunspots?

Take your pick.

>Nice read...
>Is there an Experts of Justice Arc that I've missed?

Uh, kind of. It's called "Twilight: Seventh Seal". :)

--truss,
not really an arc, but the EoJ is proposed in that story...


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Gryphonadmin
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Oct-03-01, 03:31 PM (EDT)
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8. "RE: Blue Riband?"
In response to message #7
 
   >>What's a Riband?
>
>
Main Entry: rib·and
>Pronunciation: 'ri-b[schwa]nd
>Function: noun
>Etymology: Middle English, alteration of riban
>Date: 15th century
>: a ribbon used especially as a decoration
>

>
>Webster.com (and/or dictionary.com) is your friend.
>
>>And Why would one be blue?
>
>Because blue ribbons are traditional for prize winners?

Because, in the real world, the Blue Riband was the traditional trophy of the steamship with the fastest North Atlantic crossing on record. It didn't really exist - it was just a notional thing - but steamship lines contested hotly for it anyway.

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Wedge
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Oct-03-01, 08:37 PM (EDT)
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16. "RE: Blue Riband?"
In response to message #8
 
   >Because, in the real world, the Blue Riband was the traditional trophy
>of the steamship with the fastest North Atlantic crossing on record.
>It didn't really exist - it was just a notional thing - but steamship
>lines contested hotly for it anyway.

Don't suppose you could invoke the Collier Trophy anywhere in there? Maybe?

<grin>

------------------------
Chad Collier--who isn't related to it (as far as I know), but would get a chuckle out of it anyway
Digital Bitch
J. Random VFX Company


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Gryphonadmin
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Oct-03-01, 08:42 PM (EDT)
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17. "RE: Blue Riband?"
In response to message #16
 
   >Don't suppose you could invoke the
>Collier Trophy
>anywhere in there? Maybe?

Figure on the galactic scale, the last significant aeronautical/astronautical advancement made in America was probably the Z-95, and that was done in secret back in the 1980s. :)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Croaker
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Oct-07-01, 07:15 PM (EDT)
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31. "RE: Blue Riband?"
In response to message #17
 
   >>Don't suppose you could invoke the
>>Collier Trophy
>>anywhere in there? Maybe?
>
>Figure on the galactic scale, the last significant
>aeronautical/astronautical advancement made in America was probably
>the Z-95, and that was done in secret back in the 1980s. :)

Gryph, you and Redneck have dropped several hints about this over
the course of various stories. I think it really deserves a look,
don't you? :)

Please?

>
>--G.
>-><-
>Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
>Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


--
"Eat hot blazing photonic pulse fire, you alien invading human-abducting saucer-alien bastards!" -- Captain of EAS Bellerophon, firing on a Vree cruiser.

--
Croaker
RCW #mc2
"When in doubt, shoot something. Preferably the enemy."


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Gryphonadmin
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Oct-07-01, 07:36 PM (EDT)
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32. "RE: Blue Riband?"
In response to message #31
 
   >Gryph, you and Redneck have dropped several hints about this over
>the course of various stories. I think it really deserves a look,
>don't you? :)

It could be interesting, but like I don't already have enough to do?

--G.
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Astynax
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Oct-04-01, 01:10 AM (EDT)
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19. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 4"
In response to message #3
 
   Well, that answers quite a few questions... and causes a mental core dump..
<I had pictured EarthForce vessels, though none had official appeared 'on screen' as they are in B5... this seems to imply EarthForce uses mainly Starfleet style vessels {maybe Starfleet itself? that wasn't clear to me for some reason}>

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


-={(Astynax)}=-
"Sometimes fanfic is a love letter to canon, sometimes it's a polite disagreement, and sometimes it's 95 things canon did wrong nailed to a door."


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Gryphonadmin
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22375 posts
Oct-04-01, 01:50 AM (EDT)
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22. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 4"
In response to message #19
 
   ><I had pictured EarthForce vessels, though none had official appeared
>'on screen' as they are in B5... this seems to imply EarthForce uses
>mainly Starfleet style vessels {maybe Starfleet itself? that wasn't
>clear to me for some reason}>

Earthforce:Starfleet::say, the Royal Canadian Army:UN "blue helmet" forces

--G.
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Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
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Berrik_NeueZiel
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Oct-03-01, 02:30 PM (EDT)
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6. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2"
In response to message #1
 
   Very nice indeed. Warp technology still has a great disadvantage over Fold drive, however-- it is dangerous to operate in a gravity well. And, of course there's the risks of an engine powered by anti-matter. Still, it -does- have incredible speed, with the added advantage that weapons can be fired into normal space by a ship travelling at warp speed.


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Gryphonadmin
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Oct-03-01, 03:32 PM (EDT)
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9. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2"
In response to message #6
 
   >Very nice indeed. Warp technology still has a great disadvantage over
>Fold drive, however-- it is dangerous to operate in a gravity well.

This is not particularly a disadvantage, since it's dangerous to do that with fold drive as well.

--G.
-><-
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-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
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Mephronmoderator
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Oct-03-01, 03:51 PM (EDT)
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10. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2"
In response to message #9
 
   >This is not particularly a disadvantage, since it's dangerous to do
>that with fold drive as well.

Yah, you show up way off course AND without the drive.

"Crap. Pluto again."

--
Geoff Depew - Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Malakite of Lightning and Angel of Tech Support Professionals
(They won't give me LARTs, they say that's restricted to Michael.)

--
Jen Dantes - Darth Mephron
Haberdasher to Androids, Dark Lady of Sith Tech Support.
"This may not be a good idea, but it's the only one I have."


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remandeteam
Member since Jul-31-07
78 posts
Oct-03-01, 04:22 PM (EDT)
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11. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2"
In response to message #9
 
   >>Very nice indeed. Warp technology still has a great disadvantage over
>>Fold drive, however-- it is dangerous to operate in a gravity well.
>
>This is not particularly a disadvantage, since it's dangerous to do
>that with fold drive as well.
>
>--G.

Think about it.
(Think about it.)
Think about it.

If by some chance someone figured out a way to go FTL from inside a gravity well, the entire spacecraft business would be in jeopardy. There would be no reason to use realspace for interstellar travel.

--rR

--rR


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Sinapus
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Oct-03-01, 04:26 PM (EDT)
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12. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2"
In response to message #11
 
   >>>Very nice indeed. Warp technology still has a great disadvantage over
>>>Fold drive, however-- it is dangerous to operate in a gravity well.
>>
>>This is not particularly a disadvantage, since it's dangerous to do
>>that with fold drive as well.
>>
>>--G.
>
>Think about it.
> (Think about it.)
>Think about it.
>
>If by some chance someone figured out a way to go FTL from inside a
>gravity well, the entire spacecraft business would be in jeopardy.
>There would be no reason to use realspace for interstellar travel.

Unless the method was like the gates from Stargate SG-1. ;)

Patrick Chester
"...could you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"


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Gryphonadmin
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22375 posts
Oct-03-01, 04:31 PM (EDT)
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14. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2"
In response to message #12
 
   >>If by some chance someone figured out a way to go FTL from inside a
>>gravity well, the entire spacecraft business would be in jeopardy.
>>There would be no reason to use realspace for interstellar travel.
>
>Unless the method was like the gates from Stargate SG-1. ;)

It's funny you should mention that, Pat...

(evil grin)

--G.
-><-
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Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
zgryphon at that email service Google has
Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Sinapus
Charter Member
Oct-03-01, 08:46 PM (EDT)
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18. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2"
In response to message #14
 
   >>>If by some chance someone figured out a way to go FTL from inside a
>>>gravity well, the entire spacecraft business would be in jeopardy.
>>>There would be no reason to use realspace for interstellar travel.
>>
>>Unless the method was like the gates from Stargate SG-1. ;)
>
>It's funny you should mention that, Pat...
>
>(evil grin)

I dunno. The Thor from SG-1 is a bit skinny and a HECK of a lot shorter than UF's Thor. ;-)

Patrick Chester
"...could you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"


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Matrix Dragon
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1893 posts
Oct-04-01, 02:26 AM (EDT)
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23. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2"
In response to message #14
 
   >>Unless the method was like the gates from Stargate SG-1. ;)
>It's funny you should mention that, Pat...
>(evil grin)

This could be very amusing. Of course, you'll do it in a way I'd never expect, right?

Matrix Dragon

Matrix Dragon, J. Random Nutter


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Laudre
Charter Member
Oct-03-01, 05:31 PM (EDT)
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15. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF: part 2"
In response to message #6
 
   >Very nice indeed. Warp technology still has a great disadvantage over
>Fold drive, however-- it is dangerous to operate in a gravity well.

Warp drive is finicky to begin with, but there's no specific problems with using it in a gravity well. AFAIK, it's not done for the same reason hyperdrives have safeties inherent in the design that kick out if you get too close to a gravity well; splattering into a planet will kill you just as dead in realspace as in hyperspace, and you'll have a pretty explosion to boot. Besides, most of Starfleet's big ships aren't designed to go into an atmosphere (the hull would crumple), so it's a moot point.

All of that aside, fold drive is exponentially more finicky and expensive than warp drive. So it's a moot point.

-- Sean --

http://www.thebrokenlink.org The Broken Link 4.0 is live!
"All tribal myths are true, for a given value of 'true'." -- Terry Pratchett
Follow my random thoughts
Follow my creative process


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Gryphonadmin
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22375 posts
Oct-03-01, 04:28 PM (EDT)
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13. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF"
In response to message #0
 
   By the way, this report contradicts certain things in older parts of UF, most notably the fact that the Wedge appears to have been a warp-driven ship when it was built in the 1800s and that the Kilrathi appear to be using warp-drive technology in the mid-1990s.

This is due to the fact that, when I wrote those bits of the Core, I had no idea I would eventually want to establish a four-century-long tech curve for the universe; at that time, UF was still supposed to be a joke. Now, looking back at the tangle and trying to impose some order, if I have to do a little Stalinistic revision, OK, fine. This is another thorn on the briar patch I alluded to earlier, about how the organic growth of the universe, where I spent the first several years not caring about this kind of thing and throwing references in just for the sake of the reference, is biting me repeatedly upon the posterior now. :)

The Core is, therefore, wrong on these points. The Wedge has hyperdrive; the Kilrathi flagships use non-Reflex spacefold cores which, after the fashion of big-ship fold drives everywhere, can bring whole fleets along with 'em if need be. Their smaller ships have hyperdrive backup.

--G.
-><-
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Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/


-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Star Ranger4
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2483 posts
Oct-04-01, 01:24 AM (EDT)
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20. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF"
In response to message #13
 
   >The Core is, therefore, wrong on these points. The Wedge has
>hyperdrive; the Kilrathi flagships use non-Reflex spacefold cores
>which, after the fashion of big-ship fold drives everywhere, can bring
>whole fleets along with 'em if need be. Their smaller ships have
>hyperdrive backup.
>

Ok... We may never know the answer in the ST universe, but since you've gone to all this trouble....

What in the world was going through your head that all the ships have that silly saucer section?????

___________________

Vaughn doesn't know I exist. I guess this explains why the rest of reality keeps ignoring me as well. >_<

Of COURSE you wernt
expecting it!
No One expects the
FANNISH INQUISITION!

RCW# 86


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Gryphonadmin
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22375 posts
Oct-04-01, 01:49 AM (EDT)
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21. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF"
In response to message #20
 
   >What in the world was going through your head that all the ships have
>that silly saucer section?????

Warp field dynamics, efficient curvature of space-time, yadda yadda yadda.

Looks nifty, too.

--G.
-><-
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Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/
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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Astynax
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1061 posts
Oct-04-01, 02:32 AM (EDT)
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24. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF"
In response to message #21
 
   >>What in the world was going through your head that all the ships have
>>that silly saucer section?????
>
>Warp field dynamics, efficient curvature of space-time, yadda yadda
>yadda.
>
>Looks nifty, too.
>

See, I always thought it stemmed from the infamous 'flying saucer' cliche... I never knew anyone ever actually devised a reason... or actually LIKED the appearance <Voyager was the only Starfleet ship I've seen to even be decent looking... ::shrug:: always prefered the Klingon/Romulan types, with the winglike construction>

-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"


-={(Astynax)}=-
"Sometimes fanfic is a love letter to canon, sometimes it's a polite disagreement, and sometimes it's 95 things canon did wrong nailed to a door."


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Star Ranger4
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Oct-05-01, 01:22 AM (EDT)
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25. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF"
In response to message #24
 
   >See, I always thought it stemmed from the infamous 'flying saucer'
>cliche... I never knew anyone ever actually devised a reason... or
>actually LIKED the appearance <Voyager was the only Starfleet ship
>I've seen to even be decent looking... ::shrug:: always prefered the
>Klingon/Romulan types, with the winglike construction>
>

I'ts not that I have something against the saucer desgins... Its just that other species clearly dont have the same restrictions.

I would, however, note that OF the saucer design ships portrayed so far, I like the NX-01 the best.

And Gryph, NCC stands for Naval Construction Contract... IE Starfleet ships are the only ones in the universe with a belly button built in. >>rimshot<<


___________________

Vaughn doesn't know I exist. I guess this explains why the rest of reality keeps ignoring me as well. >_<

Of COURSE you wernt
expecting it!
No One expects the
FANNISH INQUISITION!

RCW# 86


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Gryphonadmin
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22375 posts
Oct-05-01, 02:51 AM (EDT)
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26. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF"
In response to message #25
 
   >And Gryph, NCC stands for Naval Construction Contract...

... retroactively. :)

(Not in the UF universe.)

--G.
-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor in Chief, Netadmin
Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Star Ranger4
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2483 posts
Oct-06-01, 01:32 AM (EDT)
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27. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF"
In response to message #26
 
   >>And Gryph, NCC stands for Naval Construction Contract...
>
>... retroactively. :)
>
>(Not in the UF universe.)
>

>>looks at the number of EPU stories out there, and the number of Star Ranger stories out there<<

I yeild. Your Author-Fu is better than My author-fu. ^_^

___________________

Vaughn doesn't know I exist. I guess this explains why the rest of reality keeps ignoring me as well. >_<

Of COURSE you wernt
expecting it!
No One expects the
FANNISH INQUISITION!

RCW# 86


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Zenigame
Charter Member
Oct-06-01, 03:34 AM (EDT)
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28. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF"
In response to message #26
 
   >>And Gryph, NCC stands for Naval Construction Contract...
>
>... retroactively. :)

Well, it sounds like you'd know the answer to this one: did it mean anything at any point (an author's initials, a reference to Wagon Train, what have you), or were the letters picked out of a hat?


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Gryphonadmin
Charter Member
22375 posts
Oct-06-01, 03:50 AM (EDT)
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29. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF"
In response to message #28
 
   >>>And Gryph, NCC stands for Naval Construction Contract...
>>
>>... retroactively. :)
>
>Well, it sounds like you'd know the answer to this one: did it
>mean anything at any point (an author's initials, a reference to
>Wagon Train, what have you), or were the letters picked out of
>a hat?

Airplane registration numbers in the United States start with "N", and sometimes contain other letters. Apparently, somebody involved with the production of the original Star Trek was a private pilot whose plane's registration code started with "NC". Roddenberry thought that was keen, and stuck another "C" in for futuristicness's sake. (I'm given to understand that "1701" was chosen by production designer Matt Jefferies because it's easily readable in small print. Notice also that whenever another Constitution-class starship appeared in the original series, its registry number only contained "1", "7" and "0" - which makes USS Constellation's hull number NCC-1017, which doesn't make much sense if they're supposed to be sequentially numbered contracts... )

I believe my source for this is David Gerrold's The World of Star Trek, but I might be misremembering.

--G.
-><-
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Eyrie Productions, Unlimited http://www.eyrie-productions.com/

-><-
Benjamin D. Hutchins, Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief, & Forum Mod
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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.


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Redneck
Charter Member
Oct-06-01, 03:19 PM (EDT)
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30. "RE: Starfleet-style starships in UF"
In response to message #29
 
   >Airplane registration numbers in the United States start with "N", and
>sometimes contain other letters. Apparently, somebody involved with
>the production of the original Star Trek was a private pilot
>whose plane's registration code started with "NC". Roddenberry
>thought that was keen, and stuck another "C" in for futuristicness's
>sake.

Probably Roddenberry himself; the Great Bird was in the Army Air Corps during WWII, if memory serves, and was an airline pilot for several years afterwards before he got into television writing.

Redneck

Red wizard needs money badly...
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